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7) No more than 2 melee ATs can be entered. Solo pvp skill includes being able to handle playing squishies too. You may enter as many other AT types as you wish, ie three trollers etc, but to clarify, intotal no more than two of the following ATs: Tanker; Scrapper; Brute, Stalker, Kheldian.
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I dont think this is a fair rule why should you be able to enter 3 trollers which could rule. But not 3 melee sets even if you wanted to? Its should be no player may enter more than 2 of any AT not just melee thats totally unfair.
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7) No more than 2 melee ATs can be entered. Solo pvp skill includes being able to handle playing squishies too. You may enter as many other AT types as you wish, ie three trollers etc, but to clarify, intotal no more than two of the following ATs: Tanker; Scrapper; Brute, Stalker, Kheldian.
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I dont think this is a fair rule why should you be able to enter 3 trollers which could rule. But not 3 melee sets even if you wanted to? Its should be no player may enter more than 2 of any AT not just melee thats totally unfair.
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The reasoning behind introducing the non 3 melee rule is because, imo, it is the easy option. Lets face it, having 2 stone tanks and a stone brute for example. This wouldnt be a hard challenge to play.
Look at your example of 3 trollers. If someone decides they are strong enough to play three trollers then fair play to them. Bearing in mind they ARE vulnrable against a variety of builds, rad/psi, /en blasters, SR scrappers etc.
I had to balance this with people entering the competion. I cant restrict too many ATs for fear of losing players.
However, if others feel three trollers is unfair, i will reconsider. I will however, be unlikely to change the maximum of 2 melee in total rule. All good pvpers should be able to play a squishie, imo.
[ QUOTE ]
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7) No more than 2 melee ATs can be entered. Solo pvp skill includes being able to handle playing squishies too. You may enter as many other AT types as you wish, ie three trollers etc, but to clarify, intotal no more than two of the following ATs: Tanker; Scrapper; Brute, Stalker, Kheldian.
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I dont think this is a fair rule why should you be able to enter 3 trollers which could rule. But not 3 melee sets even if you wanted to? Its should be no player may enter more than 2 of any AT not just melee thats totally unfair.
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The reasoning behind introducing the non 3 melee rule is because, imo, it is the easy option. Lets face it, having 2 stone tanks and a stone brute for example. This wouldnt be a hard challenge to play.
Look at your example of 3 trollers. If someone decides they are strong enough to play three trollers then fair play to them. Bearing in mind they ARE vulnrable against a variety of builds, rad/psi, /en blasters, SR scrappers etc.
I had to balance this with people entering the competion. I cant restrict too many ATs for fear of losing players.
However, if others feel three trollers is unfair, i will reconsider. I will however, be unlikely to change the maximum of 2 melee in total rule. All good pvpers should be able to play a squishie, imo.
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This rule is fair imo but to limit it just to just melee sets is the silly part this should apply to all ATs.
Not just melee ATs cos you dont think people that play Melee sets cant pvp.
I say just let people enter their best 3 pvp chars. doesn't matter what AT they are.
Squishies, melee are all the same to me. All have their pluses and minuses and all are fair game. I make no distinction and if someone wants to enter 3 tanks, then let them. If they are seeking a draw, let them seek it and good luck to them.
How come there wasn't a bit saying that being a good pvp'er means knowing how to play a melee too? IMHO melee lag behind the others but everyone should be free to choose which 3 they enter.
@Sweet Chilli
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I say just let people enter their best 3 pvp chars. doesn't matter what AT they are.
Squishies, melee are all the same to me. All have their pluses and minuses and all are fair game. I make no distinction and if someone wants to enter 3 tanks, then let them. If they are seeking a draw, let them seek it and good luck to them.
How come there wasn't a bit saying that being a good pvp'er means knowing how to play a melee too? IMHO melee lag behind the others but everyone should be free to choose which 3 they enter.
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Guess im a [censored] PvP'er cos i prefer to use a Melee toon.
I dont see how playing a melee toon makes you any less of a PvP'er ? If anything its harder to stay alive vs Troller that knows what there doing.
Dont get me wrong if i decide to enter i wouldnt enter 3 melee toons or 3 the same of any AT like Seriphimus says a rounded PvP'er has the ability to play multi toons not just one AT. I just wouldnt want to see someone win because there KING of the trollers or KING of scrappers i would like to see someone win because they know there ATs and the PvP environment. The 3 of the same rule should apply across the board .
if someone entered 2 stone tanks and a stone brute they are not going to be winning anything and will be destroyed by ill/rads and probably any other rad troller
if you can enter 3 trollers u should be able to enter 3 melee, its not right for one rule for one and not for the other.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
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if someone entered 2 stone tanks and a stone brute they are not going to be winning anything and will be destroyed by ill/rads and probably any other rad troller
if you can enter 3 trollers u should be able to enter 3 melee, its not right for one rule for one and not for the other.
[/ QUOTE ]
Rad offenders too & granite brutes just plain suck (well against blasters anyway 
)
thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor
[ QUOTE ]
if someone entered 2 stone tanks and a stone brute they are not going to be winning anything and will be destroyed by ill/rads and probably any other rad troller
if you can enter 3 trollers u should be able to enter 3 melee, its not right for one rule for one and not for the other.
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You are not the first to bring up this argument, and after consideration I will be changing the rules to: No more than 2 of the same AT allowed.
However,
The rule concerning the total number of melee toons allowed will remain at 2.
Thats a change?
I still say that if someone wants to enter a scrapper, tank and a stalker, they should be allowed as much as someone who wants to enter a def, cont and a blaster.
BTW, I take it Khelds are counted as squishies as they have no inherent mezz protection.
@Sweet Chilli
So because I could have say, just a Fire/Stone Brute, an Fire/Ice Tank and a DM/SR Scrapper I wouldn't be able to enter at all? Even though they have reasonably different play styles?
That's bit naff, it's an exclusionary rule. Some people just like melee/non-squishy toons.
Good point
And Khelds are not counted as melee AT's btw.....not sure what they are doing in that list at all. Is that an error? I think so....
Its a bit weird how someone could play an...
ice/rad cont
rad/rad def
ice/rad corr
but not play....
elec/elec brute
katana/em stalker
spines/regen scrapper
I consider the second group would require a greater variety of play style than the first group.
Still, Khelds have never been classed as melee so I don't know what that is about.
@Sweet Chilli
This whole tournament is exclusionary to the point of being ridiculous but since im not participating Ill leave comments at this.
Isn't this a little early? Not everyone will have gotten their full IO sets yet 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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This whole tournament is exclusionary to the point of being ridiculous but since im not participating Ill leave comments at this.
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No need....
Seri you must of had reason for creating this rule so what is it? you cant Exclude people just because they like Melee toons I like Brutes/Scrappers and Stalkers but i cant play them because your rules. I would advise you looking at your rules again so its a little fairer to someone that likes to use melee toons rather than Squishy
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This whole tournament is exclusionary to the point of being ridiculous but since im not participating Ill leave comments at this.
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o my
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BTW, I take it Khelds are counted as squishies as they have no inherent mezz protection.
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My bad. I had always thought of Dwarf form as having mezz protection. However, after checking, i realise this is not the case, and therefore Khelds will NOT be included in the max of 2 melee charachters.
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This whole tournament is exclusionary to the point of being ridiculous but since im not participating Ill leave comments at this.
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Please guys, rather less of this..it is neither a constructive argument, or helpful.
First off, I assure you that I have given this a lot of thought, and I am still open to suggestions.
As stated above, my reason for the no more than 2 melee rule was decided upon because I believe playing a squishie is a whole different concept to playing a melee AT.
I myself have always enjoyed pvping with melee toons. It is only relatively recently I have really begun to play my squishies. Playing an AT with low hitpoints and most with no mez protection, requires good timing and leaves very little room for error.
Please don't get me wrong, played well, squishies can be/are devastating, however this comes at a price; Against any high damage melee toon, get it slightly wrong, and within a few hits, you're toast. In most cases, it is a case of not getting hit as much as possible whilst managing to debuff and 'wear down' the opponent, ie damage over time.
Melee on the other hand is a different challenge. In pvp, playing melee is all about trying to overcome the debuffs etc, and deilvering as much damage as possible, in the shortest amount of time. Playing melee against high level squishies can be very difficult. However, against most squishies, you get some 'room to manoeuvre'. With high hitpoints, resists etc, good self-heals, most of the time you can get away with making errors in a match. I just don't feel, in top-flight pvp, that squishies have this same 'room to manouevre'.
Please note, this is only MY opinion. I know there are always exceptions to the rule, but this will always be the case.
All this aside, I am still torn whether to allow 3 melee or not. I understand, and agree to some level, that players may feel discriminated against for this. Anyone definately wanting to play 3 melee please feel free to have your say, after all, I would like as many peeps entered as possible.
I would also appreciate feedback from the people already entered.
Thanks
Andy
[ QUOTE ]
Its a bit weird how someone could play an...
ice/rad cont
rad/rad def
ice/rad corr
but not play....
elec/elec brute
katana/em stalker
spines/regen scrapper
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First of all mate, currently they CAN play all but one of the listed toons. Secondly, I do see where you are coming from. I agree, playing a brute, scrapper and stalker does require different play styles. However, I felt the need to stop combinations like:
Ice/EM tank
EM/elec brute
Ice/EM tank ( yes someone could have pled a second one! )
I wanted to prevent someone playing these from having the option of purposely drawing matches they think might be difficult, wating for the perfect match to attack and win. IMO, it is exceptionally difficult to beat a melee toon who just wants to draw and not to fight.
Now I am NOT saying this would definately happen. Indeed, i would be sad if anyone chose to do this. However, I guessed most peeps would be taking in at least one squishie, and as well as my previously stated opinions about the reason I wanted everyone to play at least one squishy, i was also trying to prevent this from happening.
However again, this was only my opinion, and I am willing to reconsider if needs be..
Sweet Chilli Wrote:
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katana/em stalker
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oooh, never seen one of these before. Sounds a little gimped though 
this 2 melee only rule is still stupid, it really really is, if someone is brave enough to enter 3 melee class characters then I would applaud them as they ARE NOT anywhere near the top of the heap for duels.
Whats a regen scrapper going to fo against a ice/rad/mace corr except fight bravely, whats a granite going to do against a rad troller? a rad/psi defender? a elec/kin defender (yes I know rooted has a level of end drain protection but certainly not eneough) and so on and so on.
Playing a squiahy sure is a different concept to melee but it doesnt change the fact that there may be pvpers who dont play squishies and as such cannoy enter and are excluded. Given that pvp is a rare commodity these days I would have presumed it was in the events best interests to be open to as many as possible.
Right from the start you have made a bold claim that "Solo pvp skill includes being able to handle playing squishies too", my question would be, why does it? If a regen scrapper can take on a competant ice/rad, rad/psi, rad/sonic, ice/cold, ice/ice and win then they are worthy of being recognised for thier skills over an /EM blaster or one of the myriad of rad builds. Melee classes have built in survivability to an extent but this is more evident in high number pvp not duels.
IMO to say that squishies dont have "'room to manouevre'" in high level pvp is insanity, they can do everything a melee class can do but better, what do they have over squishies? A few more HPs? mez protection? Squishies get all the BFs they can chomp along with the ability to smash a melee class to mush in half an attack chain. Melee class is not an easy option, anything other than a SR or ice tank is going to be slowed and chain held to destruction and their damage mitigation is very easily took out of the picture. My Fire/Ta troller tormented ice/em tanks to the point of frustration on Union and even without the ability to slow the recharge of hibernate I could merrily kill them.
If you want to have only 2 melee builds accessable then you can only have 2 squishy builds available also, its only fair.
I applaud any attempt to increase pvp and I dont doubt that your only intention is to generate a good time by all but my feeling is that you are being exclusionary towards the brave souls who are willing to gimp themselves by entering 3 melee alts before the game has even begun. I can hear many pvpers who hear they drew the guy who entered 3 melee toons going "w00t!!!" and rubbing their hands with glee, using your example of Ice/EM tank, EM/elec brute, Ice/EM tank they would all fall at the hands of any well played rad, and one of the obligatory ice/rad trollers would hebitch man-slap all of them with hardly a sideways glance and even my incompetant fire/ta would make them cry.
*edit* oh and a mind/ff troller really would just stand there and laugh as they are tkd to helplessness and dominate bypasses their defences
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
Stalk, some fair points, to which ill reply shortly.
Meanwhile another point i forgot to mention, was what happens then if two players, with 3 melee toons each meet?
How do you overcome the ensuing stalemate?
Depends on the situation, a Claws/SR Stalker is a very different beast to say, an MA/Regen Scrapper.
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Stalk, some fair points, to which ill reply shortly.
Meanwhile another point i forgot to mention, was what happens then if two players, with 3 melee toons each meet?
How do you overcome the ensuing stalemate?
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They dont win... your just not giving people the chance to make there own choice and "Expertise" in the PvP envoiroment.
Remember your opening statement about Paper Scissors Rock. in this game PvP is balance for team fights not single so there will be some differences and thats where a Player shows the knowledge and power to overcome it and show "Elite PvP Skill" a good PvP'er will find away and thats what your looking for in this tourny.
Well I see your point, but I think we're not on the same wavelength here.. My worry was not having enough 50s in the first place.. let alone any toons good in pvp.. Thats what I meant by being exclusionary. Requiring ONE lvl 50 is ruling out 95% of server population already.
When I was in defiant PD there was quite enough of talk about this tourney being meant for "fotm PLers".
But Ill lessen my statement somewhat cause characters dont actually need to be 50, but trying with less than lvl 44
would propably be pointless.
This format is a nice idea overall but.. its just too restrictive in practise. Honestly my first thought was that this was meant for the small ring of Union PLers only.
Sorry for sounding harsh but thats the only way I can put this.
ps. I agree with Stalk, in that melee-toon only participant would propably be badly beaten looking at the possible list of participants. Also give some leeway to melee players like KS. If youre that afraid of draws and matches being dragged too long, just include a rule that if 3 (or 2) consecutive matches end in draws, then the matchup is drawn and you do something to the tournament chart to accommodate this.
3's Company
It has been a long time coming!
The quest to establish once and for all; who are the best solo pvp'ers in Europe?!
Notoriously, the validity of solo pvp tournaments has always been questioned, and quite rightly so, due to the rock/paper/scissors issues. This, I have thought over for some time, and with the help of useful feedback in the original thread, I believe this tournaments format helps to overcome these issues.
First of all, not all the details will be released today for the following reason: This tournament is designed to test a variety of skills that I think are essential in a roundedsolo pvp'er. These skills include:
1) Possessing a depth of knowledge about not only the ATs you pvp with, but also any potential AT you could face. Knowing what ATs you are weak against, and being able to adapt and overcome&; those weaknesses, to best your opponent, is a sign of a truly great pvp'er.
2) Using those enhancement slots wisely; as most pvp'ers will already know, how you slot your toons can make all the difference. In the shadow of I9, the diversity now available to players will really test how well they prepare their toons for pvp.
3) Adapting to their environments. Most players will know what a difference a map can make to the outcome of some fights. The ability to change your tactics depending on the environment is an essential pvp quality. Initially, the first round of matches will take place in the arena, however, without giving too much away, this may not always be the case.
Tournament rules and information:
1) Players must enter at least Three ATs (hero or villain or a mix of both), in the sign up thread Here , by Wednesday June 6th : 18:00 GMT.
2) Any player entering more than three ATs must have decided which three they are using by Wednesday 6th June, 18:00 GMT. This can be done via a private message, either to myself or Cherry, or by a message in the sign up thread.
3) Anyone not entered by this time will not be in the tournament. No exceptions.
4) Anyone who has entered more than three, and does not inform either myself or cherry which ones they will be using, by the closing deadline, will have their final three chosen at random for them!
5) All matches must be fought at SL50. Your ATs do not necessarily have to be SL50, however all matches will occur at this level.
6) All matches must take place at Pocked D arena, on the Test Server, unless otherwise specified!!
7) No more than 2 melee ATs can be entered. Solo pvp skill includes being able to handle playing squishies too. You may enter as many other AT types as you wish, ie three trollers etc, but to clarify, intotal no more than two of the following ATs: Tanker; Scrapper; Brute, Stalker, Kheldian.
8) Inspirations are of course allowed.
9) On Saturday 9th June, the first round of matches will be announced. You will be matched up against an opponent, and then you will have one week to complete the match. This is a simple knockout triangle tourney. All players (from all servers) will be entered into the same triangle!
10) Matches will be in the following format:
Each of the players ATs will be assigned a tag for the whole tournament. This tag will be either Rock, Paper or Scissors. Eg. If I was entering (which I can't) then it would look as follows:
Seriphimus: Rock
Purple Hazel: Paper
Nimmer: Scissors
This will be done for you at the start of the tournament.
Players have one week to arrange their match. When both players agree on a date/time, that is then set. Any no shows are disqualified. You have a Maximum of 30mins after the start time to show, or you’re out. I will try to make as many of the matches as I can to referee, but I am unlike to be able to make them all. I suggest you take screenshots at the end of the matches for evidence.
When matches are arranged, the actual fight format is as follows:
i) First Round: Players face off against one another and roll a dice. The winner is the player with the highest roll (draw=re-roll). The loser then picks the first AT they will fight with and informs their opponent. The winner then gets to choose which AT they wish to use first. Both player then fight.
ii) Second Round: The winner of the dice roll in the first round then has to choose which AT they will use to face their opponent first, and inform their opponent who gets to choose second. Both players must use an AT not already used.
iii) The next match the winner of the dice roll chooses second, loser chooses first. This alternates for the remaining matches unless a 2-2 draw is reached. After a player has used 3 different ATs, ie at a 2-1 scoreline, then for the forth fight they may choose any of the three again for the remaining fight (3-1) or in the event of 2-2 see below (v)
iv) The first player to 3 wins the match!Any drawn matches will result in a point to each player.
v) In the event of a 2-2 draw the final match will be as follows. Players will perform a Rock/Paper/Scissors in front of one another. Whichever they throw, relates to the assigned Rock, Paper, Scissors AT. Using my example about if I pulled out scissors, I would have to use Nimmer. Both players must then enter a domination match, set to 10 kills, and the first to 10 wins the match. [The only exception to this 2-2 set-up would be an obvious draw fight, ie tank vs tank, where both players agree to this, then they can rethrow r/p/s.]
vi) Results of each fight must be pm'ed to myself or Cherry by the time specified in the match thread.
vii) Finally matches may be split up into more than one night, as long as both players agree beforehand. Players leaving early without permission will be disqualified.
viii) Players who cannot reach an agreement pm me, and ill decide. My decision is final.
Good luck to all brave enough to challenge for the title of the Ultimate Solo pvp champion!