Flash Arrow?


Aero_

 

Posted

Hi,

Right, I'm looking at starting a AT/Arch defender. Looking into Flash Arrow and I'm wondering if any experienced archers could anyone confirm what I'm thinking here?

1 - Flash arrow is an auto hit targeted aoe.
2 - It lowers perception (substantial) and accuracy (minor).
3 - It is non-aggro, but puts you at the top of the mobs 'hit-list' when they do get aggro'd.

So I see it as a really good way to break down mobs. Flash, ranged pull, only one mob can see you and breaks away. When flash wears off, no aggro, so re-flash and repeat the pull. So can you do this?

What are your opinions of flash arrow in general?

I'm also looking at a 'natural' hero, missing travel powers to pick up swift/hurdle instead. Relying on jet / raptor pack for any tricky moments.

I can't make my mind up but I may fold and go medicine as well. The tricorder fits the theme of 'gadgets' and I'd like a self heal.

Anyway opinions please.

Cheers,

Mike.


 

Posted

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1 - Flash arrow is an auto hit targeted aoe.

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True in PvE, I believe a hit roll is required in pvP, which is why it can be slotted with +acc.

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2 - It lowers perception (substantial) and accuracy (minor).


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True.

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3 - It is non-aggro, but puts you at the top of the mobs 'hit-list' when they do get aggro'd.

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It's certainly non-aggro, I don't know about your second statment, but I doubt it's true based on my knowledge of how aggro works.


I really should do something about this signature.

 

Posted

I've a question on the -perception and aggro in general with flash Arrow

If I Flash Arrow a bunch and then wormhole a few out (or use any AOE really) will those outslde the Area of effect but in the same group remain blissfully unaware of their comrades plight? Or even if I Flash and then use a single-target attack on one of them and run away to pull just him?


 

Posted

Mike, you're right in everything you're saying about Flash Arrow. It is a good way to avoid mobs when travelling (particualry in The Hollows), but does put you at the top of the aggro list, so when the fists start flying then the alpha will generally try and head your way!

I also have a natural TA/Arch Defender, and haven't taken any travel powers so far. It's been a bit slow so far, but having made it to lvl 33 so far, I can say definately say it's a rewarding effort! Drop me a line if you want to chat about life as a human in a city of Supermen!

Carnifax, as far as I am aware, if you "flash" a mob and then attack one member of that mob, then the rest will also notice your attack and come to get you.

From what I have been told, Flash Arrow is best used to either a) avoid getting aggro from two mobs who are close (flash both, and attack one. The others reamin unaware.) or b)avoid trouble in the first place (especially when travelling).

Personally, I don't like Flash Arrow and would take Grappling Arrow instead, as the -fly is useful everywhere for getting enemies into your AoE debuffs...but that's just my personal opinion!


Formerly @Crimson Archer, now @CA
The Militia - Protecting Paragon City through roleplaying since June 2006!

 

Posted

Flash Arrow = great power!

1. -true

2. -true

3. -it certainly is non agro on casting it, but...
When you smoke a group and you attack one of them, the whole group is agroed and will be able to see you.

It just doesn't work as good as the smoke power mobs have in the game (think smoke grenade of Night Widows in CoV) Contrary to the smoke grenade from forementioned Night Widows; If they smoke your team and other team members are attacked -by either the Night Widow or other mobs- you still can't see (hence not target) them even when in your face untill they attack you. but this is negated by popping a yellow

Only wish that flash arrow would be that great, but alas the whole bunch will be alerted even when you attack just one...

P.S. ofcourse they try meticulously avoid attacking you when smoked so not to neutralise the perception debuff. Just as freaks tend to ignore you as much as possible when a stunner has slept you and leave you till the sleep wears off


 

Posted

As someone who's playing a petless mastermind with trick arrow, I can vouch that Flash arrow is one of the best pulling tools in the game. The short answer: If you only plink one guy in the mob you just flash arrowed, the others are usually blissfully unaware. Here's how it works:

You flash a mob. You can now attack any single enemy in that mob (only once...hitting them twice WILL alert the entire mob) and they will leave the pack to come get you. I've done this on a few teams to pull select targets out of giant mobs and it works most of the time. (The exception is longbow. For whatever reason their perception is just high enough that its tricky to use.)
The other thing to remember is an aggro'd enemy will also "awaken" any other enemies that he runs into...so if you choose to pull the guy in the back (actually a possibility with flash arrow), pray to God he doesn't RUN THROUGH THE MOB to get at you.
By the way, my experience with flash arrow is with it slotted 4x with Debuff ToHit, so not everyone might be experiencing the same joy as I am with it. I don't know. But I do know that my Petless Mastermind could not have survived to level 17 if he didn't live and die by the pull of flash arrow.
So yes. Flash Arrow is really good at pulling. Really good. Just remember to make sure you're team knows that Flash does not aggro a mob...because it sure as hell looks like it does with that crazy explosion it has attached to it. (There have been some misunderstandins.)
Other advice: Do not skip Glue Arrow. It's crazy awesome. Even if it looks nasty and implicative as hell.

By the way, my same petless MM (Kaijukore) is also without a travel power, using the jetpack as you said. The best combo: Combat Jumping (over-chosen I know) combined with Hurdle. Sure, you don't run fast but hurdle increases the SPEED of your jumping by 124% (according to Tomax) while Sprint only increases your run speed by 35%. Combined the 200% jump height increase with the 166% hurdle gives, and you have an archer who can always jump out of enemy range.
Kaijukore doesn't have a "real" travel power but I still regularly beat those with them to the mission location. Think lots of short lightning fast jumps from rooftop to rooftop rather than one slow long one.

Hopefully some of that helps.
-jared

Edit: Just to clarify...The magic pulling trick of Flash arrow works MOST of the time. Some enemies, like Snakes, Lost, Mafia, Trolls...it works almost all the time. With Longbow or any of the "more perceptive" enemies, it's a gamble. But it will never aggro the ENTIRE mob, even in the worst case scenario. Just remember to only attack once before letting the enemy put some distance between him and his friends.


 

Posted

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By the way, my experience with flash arrow is with it slotted 4x with Debuff ToHit

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Dude dont go more than 3 slots, next to nothing percent of next to nothing is of next to nothing of benefit.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Where are these stats for Flash Arrow everyone keeps talking about? I'm just curious, because the Tomax guide makes it not look so bad. You know, since the Accuracy Debuff hits the entire mob automatically, without exception.

But to be fair, you're probably right. I think I just threw the extra slot in there as Flash Arrow's reward for keeping me alive and impressing the team.
-jared


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Where are these stats for Flash Arrow everyone keeps talking about? I'm just curious, because the Tomax guide makes it not look so bad. You know, since the Accuracy Debuff hits the entire mob automatically, without exception.

But to be fair, you're probably right. I think I just threw the extra slot in there as Flash Arrow's reward for keeping me alive and impressing the team.
-jared

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Flash Arrows unslotted accuracy debuff for a MM is 3.75%. slotted makes it about 7%. Which is terrible really.

By comparison Darkest Nights is 11.75% unslotted for a MM.


 

Posted

CoH Defender stats for Flash Arrow
(as compiled from various sources - Hero Builder, Tomax & ParagonWiki)

Range: 80'
Radius: 35'
Accuracy: 1
End Cost: 7.8
Recharge: 15 secs
Effects: -20% Accuracy Debuff, -Perception

All the above are unslotted.
Can anyone else confirm the stats?


Formerly @Crimson Archer, now @CA
The Militia - Protecting Paragon City through roleplaying since June 2006!

 

Posted

Ok. I'll accept that. I still say the pulling tool aspect of it balances out the fact that it's not as good an accuracy debuff as some other things out there. But you're right. It sucks on toast if you were looking for a pure debuff.
-jared

Edit: Looking at the Tomax, it seems that Defenders get a 6.25% to hit debuff while MM only get a 3.75%. Luckily both get that "enemy perception radius -90% thing, which I think is the selling point I was trying to make. And damn it, you defenders get a cheaper Flash Arrow that debuffs almost twice as much as mine. Damn it!


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
CoH Defender stats for Flash Arrow
(as compiled from various sources - Hero Builder, Tomax & ParagonWiki)

Range: 80'
Radius: 35'
Accuracy: 1
End Cost: 7.8
Recharge: 15 secs
Effects: -20% Accuracy Debuff, -Perception

All the above are unslotted.
Can anyone else confirm the stats?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm drawing the results from the newer Red Tomax site:
http://coh.nofuture.org.uk/powersets/powersets.php


 

Posted

Hmmm... looks like I gotta update my spreadsheets. :P


Formerly @Crimson Archer, now @CA
The Militia - Protecting Paragon City through roleplaying since June 2006!

 

Posted

Just tested it again on my TA troller and the pulling mechanism as you describe 'ohgodtherats', surely doesn't work. If a group is smoked, all are agroed if you attack one.
Maybe it works differently on CoV or MM's, but i strongly doubt it.

Still it's a great power though


 

Posted

That's really, really weird. Because I'm still playing this character and doing it with fair regularity. I just checked it and it works pretty good on Arachnos troops, Goldbrickers, and those weird fleshy zombie guys in Cap of the Diablo.

I don't mean to bear false witness here, but it works for me. If you're ever on Union look me up as Kaijukore. Maybe I'm doing something else. I do know the key is only attacking once and then drawing the enemy AWAY from the mob before continuing to attack...
Maybe at higher levels the enemies get smarter? What level is your controller?

Again, this is really weird because if it didn't work as I've said then my petless mastermind would have died many many times by now.
-jared

Edit: I just played around with it to test the limits and here's what I learned:
If you try to pull from patrols that are "roleplaying" with one another (you know, using emotes or something) it will fail. If, however, you try to pull independent enemies just walking around you can pull safely even if they're right next to the "roleplaying" enemies and it works like the magic I described. Testing it on patrol was pretty educational, as finding non-emoting groups of enemies is pretty impossible outside of missions. I tried it on a quick paper mission and it worked splendidly. But whenever I tried to pull only one of a pair of goldbrickers that were "talking" it would alert both of them everytime, even though the "silent" goldbricker wandering right next to them could be pulled away no problem.

Also, to my shame, Flash arrow is slotted 6 times. I really don't remember doing that.


 

Posted

I can confirm that Controller flash arrow is 5% acc debuff.


I really should do something about this signature.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Just tested it again on my TA troller and the pulling mechanism as you describe 'ohgodtherats', surely doesn't work. If a group is smoked, all are agroed if you attack one.
Maybe it works differently on CoV or MM's, but i strongly doubt it.

Still it's a great power though

[/ QUOTE ]

Try using the lightest ranged attack as a pulling tool. Without flash arrow you can pull the end one or the walking stray (as long as he dont have to run through mobs). Certain sets such as defenders seem to have a better ability to make pulls but thats probably just in my experiences. Oh and lowest ranks first!

Flash arrow is some -tohit which is always good for defence sets plus -per which is always good for those teams that fight mobs next to other mobs and when planted say "where did they come from?" *sighs*.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

My troller TA troller is 50 and I've been testing it on both street groups and in mishes. The times i could manage to pull one of a smoked group has been very rare.

I know perfectly well how to pull and tested it in many different ways, but the succes rate with flash arrow isn't noticably higher then without. Then again like Shannon said defs might have better better pulling abilities. (I'm planning to roll a TA def so i'm gonna find out myself )

Tbh though it's no problem for me as i dont use flash arrow as pulling tool really -except pulling one of multiple close to eachother groups, but then in fact my aim is to pull the whole group. My trollers is AoE monster so pulling just one foe generally is just a waste of time.
Flash arrow i use for keeping other nearby groups non- agroed and for some smart stealthing as well as taking good position and getting close for the surprise effect


 

Posted

(Hehe - gonna pull a sneaky one here as it's a TA/A thread!)

CALLING ALL ARCHERS (TA/A only) - Come and join the illustious archery only supergroup - the "Men In Tights"!

Send me a tell on @Aero1 for more info or an invite!


 

Posted

I justs made a TA/arch
Already grabbed by another SG though...


 

Posted

Ahhh...if only you were on Union and an RP SG!


Formerly @Crimson Archer, now @CA
The Militia - Protecting Paragon City through roleplaying since June 2006!

 

Posted

[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">Antwort auf:[/color]<hr />
Ahhh...if only you were on Union and an RP SG!

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You speak true words here, very true.

Braddack


 

Posted

Okay here's another issue with Flash Arrow. I noticed it last nite in hollows. For giving certain location i realized that in Frostfire mission. I tested it couple of times.

While i was standing in the hall, everything was fine. Mobs didn't notice me. But when i draw my bow to launch flash arrow aggro begins, even before the arrow hit the group. Also in one situation a guy whose looking the other side turn to me and start to attack when i draw my bow.

Is it normal, i mean not normal in power describtion but do you have same thing happen to you?


 

Posted

Did you have a stealth power active at the time?


I really should do something about this signature.

 

Posted

I don't have stealth yet. But i can say that most of the time i was out of Glue Arrow Range. Which means they couldn't be able to notice me, we are talking about outcast btw they don't even saw me when i run from the other side of the roads.