Right then, first off, the full theory, which I created for a story about, oh, twenty years ago and I like it, so I keep using it.
The universe is, essentially, the current state of a probability equation. At any given instant, what we see and feel is the manifest function of probability and a lot of energy (matter equal energy, Einstein). Since reality is the current state of the equation, neither the future, nor the past actually exist, and the state of the past can always be altered by changing enough of the current state of the equation that people remember a different past.
Magic is the ability to change the current state, probably in some limited way. All sentient creatures have this ability. Not all can use it. Mutants, for example, develop an ability to manipulate reality in weird ways as an innate power. Latents (Science Origin in CoX) may have their power activated by some accident. Magicians learn to use it. Mad Scientists can make devices which do it, but in those cases a normal scientist would not be able to figure out how the gadget worked.
Now, it might well be quite possible for a scientist to build a machine or device which could manipulate reality, achieving the same effects, but if he can actually explain how it does it, then it wouldn't be magic. Magic is an innate property of sentience and a physical device can't duplicate that power as such. The device would have limitations over what it could do, and would require a power source of considerable size to produce a lot of the effects a magician can produce with nothing more than a brain.
That help?
Please note that this is me making up stuff. It's no more a reality than any other idea. I just make up stuff like this a lot. Always have.
And no one else in game has ever agreed that this is how magic works. I don't think I ever asked them. I know it doesn't really fit well with Doc Temporis' Time Travel stuff.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
Nice one Ravenswing, will be interesting to find out peoples point of veiw on magic from a roleplaying perspective!
That one works for me (although I've never thought about the overall way a power of my character's works just about how it works for them biologically (cause that's the type of person I am))
I would probably draw the conclusion that A mutant is a dormant magician that just happened to develope a biological way of doing the "magic" without having to learn it at all. of course this ties in with learning to Control the mutation's power and fine tunings which involves the mind. Of course being biologically attuned to one or two things would make it more difficult to concentrate on other things and therefore they never really learn any other reality manipulations (kind of like mages specialishing in fire magic or whathaveyou)
/e hmmm
Time to start playing with my single magic origin toon again methinks...
good stuff Raven ^_^
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Magic is the ability to change the current state, probably in some limited way. All sentient creatures have this ability. Not all can use it.
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However should a robot gain sentience would it not then have that ability. Also if Magicians can understand and learn to use it does it then still qualify as being magic!
If i understand you correct you say magic is there, but if we are able to rationalise it or duplicate through technological means then it isnt magic. This says to me that US Angels original theory that Magic is merely unclassified energies is actually quite viable.
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a physical device can't duplicate that power as such. The device would have limitations over what it could do, and would require a power source of considerable size to produce a lot of the effects a magician can produce with nothing more than a brain.
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True a device will always be limited compared to a person. However a sword empowered by mystic energy is said to be "magic", if a scientist managed to make the very same sword with the same properties and using same energy sources then by my understanding of your definition its no longer magic but now technology. Its then you realise that magic is merely a label and depending on your own understanding of the physics involved you will see it as magic technology, science, or any other number of labels you can apply to it.
this is gonna be one of those "bunch of old guys sitting around a table stroking beards and smoking pipes" kind of threads. 
*sticks oar in*
Commander Beet is a combination of magic and technology, a tehcnomage if you like. The magic which is in his body he does not understand but it works in a way which boosts the technologies and helps make it work the way it should. To him, it is considered magic, to the people who made it technology.
I am basing that paragraph on what has already been said though. My personal point of view on magic is;
A force which is used through natural means and cannot be created artificially. Beet is an artificial being, but uses natural means inside of him to make him work, so I class some of what he can do as magic (manipulating energy, fly) and some which he can do with technology (walk talk and think).
I am the Blaster, I have filled the role of Tank, Controller and Defender
Sometimes all at once.
Union EU player! Pip pip, tally ho, top hats and tea etc etc
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However should a robot gain sentience would it not then have that ability.
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Yep. Now, explain sentience.
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Also if Magicians can understand and learn to use it does it then still qualify as being magic!
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Yes. Magic does things not readily explained through physics. Example: summoning fireballs from your hands. A magician may be able to duplicate the effect reliably, but to a scientist looking at it, it should be impossible.
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If i understand you correct you say magic is there, but if we are able to rationalise it or duplicate through technological means then it isnt magic. This says to me that US Angels original theory that Magic is merely unclassified energies is actually quite viable.
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In my view, it's not so much unclassified energies, more energies from an unclassified source and controlled in a way which cannot be explained normally.
It would be likely that magicians are able to somehow channel energy from the space between universes. There should be quite a lot of it hanging around out there, even if Doctor Who says there isn't. 
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However a sword empowered by mystic energy is said to be "magic", if a scientist managed to make the very same sword with the same properties and using same energy sources then by my understanding of your definition its no longer magic but now technology.
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A stick that pour fire out of it is magic, or it could be a flamethrower. Any sufficiently advanced technology may be indistinguishable from magic, but it doesn't make it the same as magic.
When the magic sword was created, the method used to create it would not be understandable by the scientist. If the scientist created such a sword, he would understand how he did it and while the effect might be the same, the sword would still be a technological creation, not a magical one.
There method is everything.
Now, a scientist might actually discover how magic actually works through scientific method. He might then build a device which amplified his own latent abilities, effectively giving him the power of a magician. Beet may be an example of this kind of technology, it's really up to you, Commander, I'm assuming he has some form of sentience. Generally, if there's a 'science of magic' it's known as Thaumatology. Thaumatologists need not be magicians, but they can be enormously good at creating new spells because they understand how magic works at a fundamental level. Equally, a magician need not know thaumatology to work magic, he can just work by rote (spells) or wing it (commonly, rituals).
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Its then you realise that magic is merely a label and depending on your own understanding of the physics involved you will see it as magic technology, science, or any other number of labels you can apply to it.
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Of course it is. Everything's pretty much a label. We split science up into broad categories of physics, chemistry and biology, and the more you learn about it, the more you discover how blurred the categories are.
What's the difference between religion and mythology aside from better spin merchants? 
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this is gonna be one of those "bunch of old guys sitting around a table stroking beards and smoking pipes" kind of threads.
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I do hope so.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Yep. Now, explain sentience.
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Ummm... no! I got a house full of kids at the moment and my head is banging already. Also there is a limit to the number of deep philosophical discussions I get involved in at any given time.
I think compelling arguements all round at the moment. Seems that the undefined nature of magic means paradoxically we can all both be right and wrong at the same time. All you really need is a careful placement of a label! (Can anyone else hear a Sitar playing in the background? )
To me, it's the very mutable and subjective nature of trhe perception of reality which makes magic possible, rather than the transfiguration or manipulation of energies.
Reality, in essence, is the majority view or belief. If you can manipulate and alter a commonly held belief then reality warps to accept the new "reality". If you convince 99.9% of the World that Red is actually Blue, then this becomes the new subjective reality. Reality warps to accomodate and people forget that Red was ever anything other than the colour of the sky.
Some individuals are strong enough to cause a localised warping of this reality through strength of will and personality, others require ritual or group to generate enough localised belief to create a warp effect.
Using the idea of the "Mad Scientist", his belief is that his "machine" will work. If his belief is strong enough, then reality accepts this view, and so everyone believes it and the device works. The device becomes the focus of belief, and he convinces himself and reality accordingly. For the most part it comes down to how much convincing needs to be made to create the reality warp required inorder to produce the desired effect.
But that's just my pipe smoking & beard stroking cents worth! 
Formerly @Crimson Archer, now @CA
The Militia - Protecting Paragon City through roleplaying since June 2006!
i would like to point out that my characters group "The Hunters Guild" uses magic aswell as technologly, these two thing work together to give them their rather unique skill, and yes this is done via, for them, runic and echantments aswell as a few other things, i did do some research do this before i made my character Drade to add a certain realist feel to him. I used my know how from other games i had played, books i had read, the internet, and my own mind to make the base of "their" magic ( i did use to call it "Magkica" as the true runic word is actaully too long to use truely) and based on a rumour i heard i gave "The Hunters Guild" the ability to speak runic, although this means it takes "them" quite some time to talk about anything due to the fact each letter sound is like when writen down a two to four letter word.
If you wish i can post the runic alphabet i am using for the hunters, which may or may not help you to understand them a little better, it is an idea after all.
/Pedant.
Runic is not, and never was, a spoken language; it's not even a proper word. Runes themselves are inscribed symbols, and there are multiple styles.
I believe the people who used "runic" writing generally spoke antique Norwegian, Swedish, Danish and Finnish, oh... and the celts!
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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/Pendant.
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/pedant
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/Pendant.
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/pedant
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/Whistles innocently...
Don't know what you're talking about, squire...
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
heh...
More pedantry - the ancient Celts had no writing!
Callista's magic is a little different, she draws her power from the world around her. To her magic is a force which runs through everything in the universe. It is unlimited and cannot be created or destroyed. Being a creature of magic she is naturally in tune with these forces all around her. For her to create a fireball is merely a case of directing her will onto the power that flows around her to do something it otherwise wouldn't do.
From a physics point of view, with the matter/energy relationship and the uncertainty principle, your computer MAY spontaneously turn into a gerbil. It is very unlikely, but not impossible. To Callista magic is the art of making the improbable probable.
Of course she doesn't understand physics, but if she did that's what she would tell you.
She ocassionally uses scrolls or tablets to perform magic. To others, and to her these things hold some kind of mystical energy, they enable her to do magic. Similarly she has only a limited amount of powers, because that is all she believes she has. However there is more to this than she realises. If she ever worked out the truth and really believed it (and the really believing it part is the crux), then nothing would be impossible for her. The truth being that nothing is impossible if she only believes it enough. The flip side of this coin is that if she ever did try and change or channel that much energy to do something really massive, and at any point her will faltered, there wouldn't be enough bits left to leave a stain.
To magic and science has always been to different things. Science uses the laws of phyics and the natural world, while magic manipulates it and bends it to its will. Or, if you will, the manipulation of life energies (ambient mystical energy of this universe). Hence the reason, in my mind and most fiction, only beings that are organic or alive in a organic sense can use it. Why can't a robot use magic? Because its existances is based on the natural laws, and manipulating them would destroy its existance.
Further more, magic to me has always been the channeling of this ability to warp the natural laws. The more powerful you are the more power you can channel. Beings born of magic have inate "oneness" with this energy if you will. Also magically inclined creatures will always have a better understanding and power to channel things then a netural being like a human. So you could be more powerful than a demon, but you will never bee the most powerful because you are human.Kinda like the whole fantasy thing where an Elf mage will always be more powerful than you, if you are human.
Also I have aways seen magic as straining the perosn to use. You can manifest a gigaton bomb? Cool, but it must have taken a [censored] load of concertration adn taken alot out of you! To create something that powerful you must first be able to channel enough energy to do so!
I wish the game had a beter definition of magic, instead of our own versions just clashing with each other.
One I do like is one from a game called arcanum:
An important in-game dynamic maintains that technological devices can be impeded or even destroyed by powerful magic, and that the presence of high technology can dampen or even snuff out magical effects. Because technology works with the natural laws and magic opposes and defies them.
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To magic and science has always been to different things.
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Nope. A lot of chemistry stems from the early works of Alchemists. Newton was a profound scientist and mathematician, and a very accomplished magician. Astronomy owes a lot to the work carried out by astrologers trying to do their thing.
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Or, if you will, the manipulation of life energies (ambient mystical energy of this universe).
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Too specific. This might be the case with witchcraft, but it doesn't work well with Chinese elemental magic, alchemy, angelic magic, demonology or any of the other plethora of magical forms throughout the world.
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So you could be more powerful than a demon, but you will never bee the most powerful because you are human.
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You have somekind of obsession with being the most powerful, UN. Really, get over it. I also disagree with you, and you argument has little logic. A demon is born a creature of magic, so should be more powerful than a human, but you then say you can be more powerful than a demon?
Under the scheme I put forward, a human can be as powerful as anything else, if they simply have the will to carry out what they wish. However, a magician need not be more powerful than a demon, merely cleverer. Demonology is a wonderful art, learning to carefully craft binding spells which demons must obey, even against their wills, because that is their nature. Of course, it's dangerous. Get one little thing wrong...
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Also I have aways seen magic as straining the perosn to use.
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Depends on your skill, what you're doing, etc.
Creating that gigaton nuclear bomb from scratch, by the way, should require more than just great magical skill and a load of effort. It should require a doctorate in physics and thorough knowledge of how to build a nuclear bomb.
Easier to just summon up and release a load of energy.
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I wish the game had a beter definition of magic, instead of our own versions just clashing with each other.
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No, it should have a totally wooly definition of magic. Have you ever read a comic? Each universe has some basic idea of how magic works in it, but they don't apply it consistently. Each magician in the DC universe tends to operate in a slightly different way. The whole thing is about character conception. If Cryptic had laid down how magic worked in CoX, that would be massively limiting to us as players.
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One I do like is one from a game called arcanum:
An important in-game dynamic maintains that technological devices can be impeded or even destroyed by powerful magic, and that the presence of high technology can dampen or even snuff out magical effects. Because technology works with the natural laws and magic opposes and defies them.
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Well, that's one game definition. How about some more:
Mage: The Ascension: Magic and high-technology are the same thing. The reason why bleeding-edge gadgets are unreliable is that they are actually just focusses for magic and if you don't have a skilled magician to operate it, the results are unpredictable.
Most humans are known as Sleepers. They walk through life unable to perceive the supernatural world about them, but even they can be taught to use rote spells through a focus, and this is how technology becomes accepted, more reliable, and commonplace.
So, magic and technology don't interfere with eachother, unless they have been designed to, because there isn't a difference between the two.
GURPS leaves it optional whether technology can influence magic, or psionics. This is fitting since GURPS is designed to be customisable.
And out in the 'real world':
Some believe that technology interferes with magic, others that it doesn't. Cold iron, or any iron, has long been seen as a way to keep away witchcraft and witches. Chinese elemental magic includes metal as one of the five elements.
You are restricting your view of magic to one game system you like (or so it seems to me) when a study of 'real world' magic produces a great deal more fun and frolics, and a lot more variations you can twist into interesting characters. If you're really interested in producing weird and wonderful Magic Origin heroes (or villains) taking a look at some of the real world magic systems would be fruitfull.
Or you can do twist it other ways. I made a fire blaster called Angelica Darling (I wanted the cutest, sweetest name I could think of) who was a mutant. However, her mutant power was the ability to summon imps and small demons. One could assume that she would work up to bigger demons as she got more powerful. Angelica doesn't work magic in the traditional sense, she's a mutant, but the effects are the same and someone from an uncultured tribe (or, say, Arkansas) might think her a witch and burn her at the stake.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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More pedantry - the ancient Celts had no writing!
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The peoples we tend to think of as Celts (with the Druids and all that) would have used Ogham, or Latin. At least at some times and in some regions.
The term 'Celt' itself is a bit dodgy due to the 17th Century messing about with what actually defined the term, and the incursion of this big ol'thing called the Roman Empire.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Quote:
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I wish the game had a beter definition of magic, instead of our own versions just clashing with each other.
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No, it should have a totally wooly definition of magic. Have you ever read a comic? Each universe has some basic idea of how magic works in it, but they don't apply it consistently. Each magician in the DC universe tends to operate in a slightly different way. The whole thing is about character conception. If Cryptic had laid down how magic worked in CoX, that would be massively limiting to us as players.
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I totally agree with Ravenswing here. It was never really my goal to actually define magic for the CoX universe rather
I wanted to find out (and im certain Ravenswing is doing the same) how others character veiw the subject. For US Angel magic is unclassified energies (or even energies from an unclassified source) because her thinking is grounded in the science anfd technology of the world around her. For Ravenswing its the big cosmic potential of sentient life to manipulate reality.
Each of our characters both see and define magic differently, and the great thing is because of the sketchy nature of the whole subject we can all be right in our own way. Basically each of us are subscribing to a different school of magic and therefore use or perceive it in a different way.
Its these different schools where the differences of opinion have an impact. Some magic is vulnerable to metals, will not work with technology, etc all characteristics of specific types of magic.
Sure there is some sort of basic truth that underlines all form of magic at some level, but unless any of us are some sort all knowing cosmic being or sorcerer supreme then we must content ourselves with our own miniscule fraction of what we know!
And yes i realise someone out there could very well believe they are all knowing, but because there is no way of really proving that we can safely just call them a nutjob!
/em strokes chin in the hopes of getting that beard to grow for stroking in deep and heavy discussions!
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I also disagree with you, and you argument has little logic. A demon is born a creature of magic, so should be more powerful than a human, but you then say you can be more powerful than a demon?
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What I meant is that you can be more powerful than demon A, but because he is inately magical, Demon A has always got the potential to be more pwoerful than you.
If this is hard to understand then let me put it this way. (THIS IS PURELY FICTION< I DO NOT KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT RAVEN TO SAY THIS IS FACTUAL)
You are a natural RP inclined person (if you will), you have a natural tendacancy towards creativity, intelligence, and other stereotypes about geeks.
I am a natural Atheletic person, I excel at Sports, Martial arts and other jock stereotypes.
Now you could go to the gym, take steroids, studied Capoeria till you can handstand for ages, but as a naturally atheletic person If i did the same I would naturally out due you. Just as if we studied the same subject and wrote a paper on it I would expect the intelligently inclined person to outdue me.
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To magic and science has always been to different things.
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It was suppose to read, To me magic and science have always been two different things fundamentally.
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Too specific. This might be the case with witchcraft, but it doesn't work well with Chinese elemental magic, alchemy, angelic magic, demonology or any of the other plethora of magical forms throughout the world.
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Oh it does. You are refering to metal, wood, earth, fire and water? yes? well they are all aspects of the earth, which in magic mythology is alive. Gaia if you will? (My mom is a spiritulist I know where you are coming from) The others are simiply calling on deties that supposedly breathe life into the universe. Gods and demons and the such. Techonlogy is often described as removing the soul of the thing in which it came, thus theroies of man losing his oneness with the earth and all that.
The definition I didn't like that you gave is that all meta human abilites are the result of latent magical channeling written into the genetic code.
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Not all can use it. Mutants, for example, develop an ability to manipulate reality in weird ways as an innate power. Latents (Science Origin in CoX) may have their power activated by some accident.
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What about physical Mutantions that occur through science such as regenative abilities? Starfish and regen as can many reptiles and other forms of life? Are they channeling your magical probablity powers? Thats why I like the definition that Magic manipulates the natural world, and the laws of sciences or warps reality as you say, but I chose to believe that science and tech are seperate to magic. Not that I am saying technological things can't channel magic, there are ways around it that are used in many fiction.
The technology can be made of a magical metal that allows it to channel and absord mystical energies. Things can be charmed, but the technology itself cannot create magical effects because it is seperated from that what makes magic.
But like you said this is just my version of magics 
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Creating that gigaton nuclear bomb from scratch, by the way, should require more than just great magical skill and a load of effort. It should require a doctorate in physics and thorough knowledge of how to build a nuclear bomb.
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I totally agree. You must know at least something about the thing you are creating especially if it is complex technology. Althought some could say they that some cosmic entity endows them with the knowledge on how to make such a object breifly. Even if you look at comics, you don't really see Dr. Fate creating a gun or a computer, or car.
What I was saying was the power required to create such power objects should take something out of you, wiether it is concentration, or if it taxes your body or strains your mind etc. In real life magicals and popular fiction the more powerful the spell the more powerful the reprocussions.
Thats not to say your not right about skill. If I am a low level mage,conjuring a bowl might be hard for me and take alot of me, but to you this is simple, because you are more skilled in magic. However to create such a powerful weapon, you are in away channeling the power of a star (as nuclear weapons are often refered to the power of a star when it goes off) That should take emormous amount of power, and if it didn't strain you in some way, then you have the near power of a god in my opinion. Also in comics the ablity to control and create matter is often a power given to someone considered godlike in the first place.
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You have somekind of obsession with being the most powerful, UN. Really, get over it.
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Actually I do and do not. I don't wanna be the most powerful. This is not my world,it is the creation of another person, we are just allowed to make characters in it. The overall story of this world is not under our control, we can effect i, and have our own stories within it, but the overall deicions is up to the creator. To me it is no different from acting. We are allow to improv, to adlib abit, but not to rewrite the script or take direction of the play.But thats my take on it. I see it as me being allowed to give my perceptive on someones elses creation and add to it not control it.
If you wrote a book awhere Agent X is the best assassin in the world, and you gave your friend permission to write his own character, that you would add, it would be rude in my opinion to undermine him and say, well actually I'm the best assassin in the world. You kinda ruin the canon when you do that is my obession with it :P
Oh and raven I don't want you to think thisis battle of the theories. I was just defending what you said about my theories on magic :P
well then PAH!
is all im going to say, i did say it was a rumour, i knew it was a fake one, i did do some study of runic.
Afterall, i thought CoX wasn't truely set in the "real" world, sorta alt dimension place.. thing..
SSHHH you'll give the devs an idea for an infinite crisis type thing where we visit our earth!
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If this is hard to understand then let me put it this way.
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It wasn't hard to understand, I simply don't subscribe to that magical paradigm. In my view, all sentient creatures have the same fundamental capacity to alter reality. A demon may be more powerful than a human, but that doesn't mean the human cannot surpass the demon.
If you like, think of it this way: two children are born with essentially the same mental capabilities. One is subjected to sleep education and becomes a Doctor of Physics by the age of three. However, he's lazy and doesn't do much with it. His sister learns the hard way and eventually surpasses him because he's not putting in any work.
Even if they both put in the same amount of hard work, they would probably both end up knowing the same, despite the boy's head start, because there is a finite amount of stuff they can learn and they both have the same basic intelligence.
In fact, in many fantasy settings, creatures with innate magical abilities are usually fundamentally weaker than, say, a human. They start with an advantage, but they can't learn the way humans can and so the humans will eventually defeat them. It's a staple of fantasy fiction.
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The definition I didn't like that you gave is that all meta human abilites are the result of latent magical channeling written into the genetic code.
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I didn't say that, I said it was a function of sentient life. Sentience does not rely on genetics, especially in fantasy and sci-fi, and most especially in comic books.
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What about physical Mutantions that occur through science such as regenative abilities? Starfish and regen as can many reptiles and other forms of life? Are they channeling your magical probablity powers?
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Err, no. Now you find me a starfish which can regenerate a limb in a matter of seconds. Show me a reptile who drops his tail, waits a minute, and it's grown back. Do you have any idea of the amount of energy required to regenerate tissue at that speed?
Very little that a comic-book mutant can do has any explanation in real science. Please don't try to tell me it has. If you are irradiated by huge amounts of gamma rays, you do not develop a hulking green alter-ego with the brain of a pea, you develop radiation sickness, your internal organs collapse, and you die. Children are not born with the ability to regenerate damage like Wolverine, because it's not physically possible.
Saying that it's magic is just a shorthand for "this isn't possible, but it's happening". If you like, we can call them "superpowers" and magicians just have an odd way of making "superpowers" trigger.
You seem to be too hung up on this separation of the natural and the scientific. There's no such thing.
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Things can be charmed, but the technology itself cannot create magical effects because it is seperated from that what makes magic.
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"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" - Arthur C. Clark.
"Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology" - someone else.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo" - some smart-[censored]
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Even if you look at comics, you don't really see Dr. Fate creating a gun or a computer, or car.
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That's down to comic-book convention. Dr Fate comes from the days when heroes didn't carry guns or the like (and no one would have thought of a computer). A modern day version would summon guns, but then, a modern day version wouldn't exist because the character is too powerful for modern comics.
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To me it is no different from acting. We are allow to improv, to adlib abit, but not to rewrite the script or take direction of the play.
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You probably wouldn't like my opinion of roleplayers who think RP is acting, but I don't think you mean it the way I dislike, so that's cool.
I may be missing something here. Do you roleplay at Galaxy Girl or Pocket D? I don't anymore, so I don't know.
If you have, then you are rewriting the 'plot' of the city every day by telling your own story. What I think you mean is that no one should be creating uber characters which surpass the limits created for the in-game NPCs. I'd have to say I agree with you, but no for the reasons you give.
Statesman is probably one of the strongest men alive. He's sufficiently uber that creating a character who is stronger than him is probably going to result in your character being way too God Mod. Beyond that, Statesman is a totally boring person, and I'd be very willing to suggest that our putative Uber-Statesman would be about three times as boring as States.
Uber characters aren't interesting. You can't challenge them, nothing is actually a challenge. If nothing is a challenge then why bother. So I prefer making characters that have more realistic limits (that's not realistic, it's more realistic, this is a comic book game).
Which is more interesting and exciting:
Superman, impervious to almost all damage, strong enough to move a planet, faster than the speed of light. Has to be faced by Dread Cthulhu before he'd even break a sweat.
Batman, skilled, very well trained, rich, huge resources, but subject to normal physical frailties, and one good sniper in the right place could end his career instantly.
I'd pick Batman every time, and he has the personality of an angry mongoose with severe mental instability.
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You kinda ruin the canon when you do that is my obession with it
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True, but I don't think the canon of CoX is sufficiently well codified to make this worth persuing on those grounds. I'm not actually sure that Statesman is the strongest hero. I'm quite sure he doesn't lead the Phalanx because he arm-wrestled his way to the top. (I have no idea why, but) he probably got there because all the other heroes respect him. That big demon-type sucker who stands around in Founders Falls could easily be stronger than States, but since there are no stats in the game, and no published information I'm aware of, we simply don't know.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
Taken from the other thread, Ravenswing: [ QUOTE ]
Here's the 'War Crow' theory of magic, just for the hell of it: Magic is the unacknowledged ability of some entities to manipulate reality with their mind. This neatly covers magicians, magical creatures, mad scientists, mutants, and anything else that does things they shouldn't.
For a while (about half of a mili-second), War Crow became the ultimate expression of this, able to see, feel, and understand all of reality. And that was right before he got told he couldn't be allowed to have that kind of power.
Now he's an accomplished magician and swordsman, who also happens to run an international courier company specialising in using super-powered couriers so you know your package is always going to get there.
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Britanic: [ QUOTE ]
...Does that include robots, or tech heroes who figure out how to manipulate mystical energy?
Should US Angel actually figure out a way of harnessing magic via her powersuit she will argue that she has merely managed to classify a previously unclassified energy frequency. Of course the reality would very well be "that girl in the powersuit just summmoned the purple binds of Sniffit!"
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Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.