If you want to use this in SC it might be worth getting accrobatics in there before lvl 30. Levitate is also with grabbing to bounce players around during supression, its also unaffected be CM which is something to think about.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
Yup, I agree. Levitate is ok, although I will always pick mesmerize above it so its a matter of 'where to stick levitate'. If it could be possible to use only power bolt to build domination Id drop power blast in a heartbeat, but normally having two such attacks is more practical than just one. Also I havent tested how well that will work. Only merely starting my tests after I found out about the domination build up..
EDIT: on second look I dont understand why I put stimulant and acrobatics that way, duh.
Use Levitate to build Domination? I skipped Power Blast on my Mind/Nrg because IMO Levitate is better in every way. I think it even does more damage.
EDIT: Duh, just remembered primary attacks don't boost Domination the same way in PvP. Nevermind 
[ QUOTE ]
Use Levitate to build Domination? I skipped Power Blast on my Mind/Nrg because IMO Levitate is better in every way. I think it even does more damage.
EDIT: Duh, just remembered primary attacks don't boost Domination the same way in PvP. Nevermind
[/ QUOTE ]
Lol, exactly the reason im so worked up completely revising my dominator play..
I'm really not sure what you're trying to achieve with this build - it's definitely not Sirens-spec, and there's a lack of damage all-round at the expense of over-commitment on both suppressed and unsuppressed movement, IMO.
What are you aiming for?
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
Good to see you're working on a PvP build. 
As Syn has said, it'd be nice to know exactly what you're aiming for here. I have builds specifically made to be playable in Siren's, and others where I've just given up, admitted it's never going to be good enough in there, and gone for making it playable in higher-level zones.
From looking at your build, and playing around in a builder myself, it does look like Mind/En is difficult to build for Siren's. I don't know if you've seen the great US Dom guide that Filth linked to on the PvP board recently, but that guide's author stated that you WILL NEED Fitness, Leaping, and Medicine, no arguments. I tend to agree with him - I wouldn't want to PvP a Dom without Aid Self, and I suspect you'll just end up dying more, and getting less kills. It doens't matter how many fun, fancy powers you have if you're just dying over and over. On Union, we seem to have a tendency for the villains in Siren's not to team up much (and of course, the ones there are mostly Stalkers), so you cannot depend upon there being a Corruptor around to heal you, unless you have a friend or someone from your SG you're always going in with. I still think you're better off self-reliant though, I know my Thermal Corruptor can't always get to Filth's Dominator in time to save him, given how hectic PvP can get in there.
Personally, I'd probably knock Telekinesis and Confuse out until 32 and 35, and get Stimulant/Aid Self in there. Mass Confusion I'd drop, or maybe take later on - fun, but I just don't see how to fit it in at 32 on a PvP build with so many other powers to take. This is all going on my playstyle, though - I don't bother with 1v1s, for instance, so I rate TK lower than some people might. I love Confuse, but I've never found it to be the most important power to have in PvP. Power Boost is another thing you could live without in Siren's perhaps, if that fits your playstyle better. I find Power Boost more useful than Confuse or TK, though.
As for slotting, I don't see the point in two-slotting Combat Jumping. Have a look at the numbers in your builder - it's not very good. I tend to just two-slot Hurdle if I can afford to, the third slot isn't as effective. SJ I tend to leave alone, too - it'll get supressed in combat anyway, and it's pretty quick as is. Those are slots that could go into slotting your early attacks; I know you don't like them, but if you're going to take them and use them, you might as well be able to do some damage with them - at least in Power Blast.
On the upside, getting Total Focus in time for Siren's is really nice, and does give /En something over some of the other Dominator secondaries.
Ok, lots of things I need to comment.
First, let me point out the word 'mainly' in the topic. I'm not going to pretend I will arrive at the ultimate build on the first attempt. This is just my first attempt with the new info. I also don't want to sacrifice PvE versatility if I feel that over-specialization is not going to make the character particularly stronger. I will opt for versatility in such case. Propably this character will evolve to the final build over time, just like my blaster did(does).
Ok,I don't build characters for sirens only, although the issue with Aid self is a valid one. Personally I don't consider zone pvp worth too much attention. I make characters so that they are sufficiently strong in sirens without trying to spend ages at the builder thinking about the ultimate build for one zone.
I'd however like to know what are the 'obvious' points that dont make this build a 'sirens' build? Apart from aid self, which I consider slightly overhyped. If you arent able to get kills without aid self, you are unlikely to get them with it. Besides, zone pvp is about getting kills, not about making yourself unkillable after all (ps. Ill talk about the goal of this build shortly). In my next build, my blaster is going to remove aid self from sirens level range and get conserve power instead because it is more useful..
Ultimately though Ill propably move confuse and possibly terrify out and stimulant and aid self into sirens level range. Currently confuse and terrify stay, in case I exemp, because they are so important in pve. Apart from this operation, I don't see any way of making the build any stronger in sirens. These sort of changes Im likely to make after playing enough with the 'inferior' version. Its part of the my characters 'evolving' process. Ill just say that current choice is a conscious one. Id rather not move terrify anywhere but I don't see many other options to move outside the sirens range.
About the 'goal' of the build. Well, Im not going to entertain any fantasies about dominator being efficient at killing anybody, so Im going to rely on teammates to do that, apart from few possible 1v1 skirkishes. So the goal of this build is to hunt, mez, toggledrop, and pin down enemies for my teammates to kill, or simply cause trouble in enemy ranks. (this character is designed to 'gank' from day one 
)
Overall damage? Are you referring to power blast? I have had power blast 5-slotted with SOs and I realized that I rate it slightly above flurry in usefulness. (this is because blast is ranged. Ok Im jokingly exaggerating but the conclusion stands). Blast and bolt exist in this build purely to build domination. Their usefulness on taking down anybody by damage is nonexistent. Besides Im not planning to go head-to-head with anybody. I plan to hold somebody, the stalker comes and puts them below 50% and the corrupter tears them a new one with scourge after that. Ideally ^^
And should I do go head-to-head, there would be no hope without total focus or bonesmasher, which, frankly, are unlikely to be enough even when domination is running. There may be a possibility to take down people at higher levels when I get power burst, or not. I don't know, because my character is currently just 32 and burst is 38 earliest. Slotting total focus for 2 acc, 2 dam and 2 end redux is however more than likely to happen, otherwise Id be out of end before their lifebars would hit halfway. Im more than sceptic at my ultimate damage potential quite frankly. I have already used domination on a scrapper in sirens and been utterly unable to dent them even when they were held.
Overcommitting travel powers? Personally I don't recognize such thing. Travel powers can save your butt more often than aid self can, and aid self will need quick getaway capability to be useful. Ill never go below 2 slots in superjump on any of my SJing toon, even if they were arena-only (which kind of toons I dont have). SJ can be extremely important at escaping different debuffs, jumping away to aid self, avoiding movement impairing effects like snow storm and allow fast zone-wide movement in sirens. Instead of hopscotching to talos park with a big "KILL ME" sign above my head, I choose to arrive from above, via war walls, or similar place. Also superjump is great at chasing people. If you think you cant get to flying toons with just SJ, youre wrong. My blaster can total focus stun them to the ground even(bonesmasher in sirens), I guess my dom could do it more easily with ranged mezzes. CJ and hurdle would ideally be 3-slotted, but if I'd take slots away from somewhere, theyd be off from CJ. Well, im maybe overslotting them but it is my decision. I hear a lot about unsuppressed movement, and while it is obviously important for pvp toons, it is also slightly overhyped, imo. I feel that my blaster is capable of using melee at arena so efficiently because of his wide array of movement powers, including superspeed. Ideally Id also want to have superspeed in sirens, but that is unlikely to be able to fit in. I guess Ill just have to hope my opponents arent carrying too many webnades.
PS. Ultimately this is just a first attempt at a test build. So Ill propably make changes to it, but I will make them on my own accord. I hear your thoughts but will wait until I see my own eyes before I agree.
PPS. You may need to link to the dom guide you mentioned again. Its not the 'generic' dominator guide, is it? Because I already found some points in which I disagree with it.
PPPS. Regarding slots in CJ, hurdle etc. Im not basing it on numbers on some hero builder. Im basing those on the experience I got from my blasters three builds or so and quite a lot of time spent in PvP.
[ QUOTE ]
PPS. You may need to link to the dom guide you mentioned again. Its not the 'generic' dominator guide, is it? Because I already found some points in which I disagree with it.
[/ QUOTE ]
If it is you need to read it again as there was a surprisingly simple solution to a dominator playing problem you mention on another thread. I wouldnt put too much faith in a pvp dom until the late 30's btw, the extra slots really help a lot. I would also start again with other sets, /en is a bit of a bugger for doms who want to pvp in sirens. I have one festering away on defiant but if i was to respec him I'd go for something like this:
Archetype: Dominator
Primary Powers - Ranged : Mind Control
Secondary Powers - Support : Energy Assault
01 : Power Bolt Empty(01)
01 : Levitate Empty(01)
02 : Dominate Empty(02)
04 : Bone Smasher Empty(04)
06 : Combat Jumping Empty(06)
08 : Stimulant Empty(08)
10 : Power Blast Empty(10)
12 : Telekinesis Empty(12)
14 : Super Jump Empty(14)
16 : Power Boost Empty(16)
18 : Aid Self Empty(18)
20 : Hurdle Empty(20)
22 : Health Empty(22)
24 : Stamina Empty(24)
26 : Acrobatics Empty(26)
28 : Terrify Empty(28)
30 : Total Focus Empty(30)
I would possibly swap TK out for confuse, mesmerize or maybe hasten.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
Okay, it does change things a bit if you want to keep this as more of a hybrid PvE/PvP toon. When I mentioned dropping out TK and Confuse until post-30, I was thinking more about a high-level respec - a lot of my toons that I take into PvP had a more PvE-focused build until late on.
I'd made the assumption you cared about Siren's as you mentioned it repeatedly in the other thread, and then made one change to get Acrobatics in time for it, too. If you don't care, then looking at the whole thing, I have to think it might well be the case that this toon is better built for higher-level PvP. I suppose the benefit there is that you could probably respec immediately without losing anything you want for PvE.
If you do build the character as is, don't be surprised when you're not-so-great in Siren's, though, as you seemed to be complaining about in the other thread. I have some toons I just don't take in there because I know they're not built for the level cap. Amusingly enough, the best Siren's-level build I've come up with so far is a Dom. 
It's a PvP Grav/Ice, though, which fits together completely differently than this.
I have a Blaster with no Aid Self in Siren's myself. It's not the best situation, but it's not too much of a problem for her because she can generally kill a threat before it becomes an issue. Plus, there are more often people around to team with on the hero side, I find, so she doens't need to be quite so self-sufficient. And if she does die? No worries, it's only a quick jump back. It's entirely different from a Dominator who might be jumping in and out, trying to build up Domination whilst also staying alive so as not to lose the Domination they've built, often with very little backup.
That said, if you're really taking the goal of not being able to kill anyone anyway (which I still disagree with, but it is your choice), then maybe having all those handy tools like Confuse, TK, Terrify and so on IS more useful for you. It still stinks, to me, of trying to be a Controller when you're not one, but again... your choice.
If you're not going to slot Power Blast (which is as good damage as Levitate - which was mentioned earlier in the thread), you might want to think about taking Power Push instead. At least it does something useful when only slotted for accuracy, and it fires off more quickly. It's got a lightly longer recharge on it, but with Hasten and a recharge slotted I don't think it would be bad. Plus, since it sounds like you're going to be busy with other powers a lot of the time, the slightly longer wait might not matter to you.
Super Jump slotting is personal choice, I guess. I can't remember any situation in which I've managed to SJ away, and been caught because I really could have done with another slot in it. Generally, if I can get away, I can get away, and that's it. The zones aren't difficult to lose people in. While I've no doubt the extra speed is nice, I could never do it in a build where that slot could be elsewhere. I know you can catch fliers with it, but I tend to just use the Jump Jet from the Good vs. Evil pack if they're slightly too high.
I don't have the link to the Dom guide to hand. Filth linked to it just a couple of days ago on the PvP forum, in a thread about Doms. It was a lengthy guide specifically about Doms in PvP - I'm not sure what you mean by the "generic" guide. And just because you disagree with some points in a guide doesn't make it worthless! I disagree with things in most guides I read, that doesn't mean that the rest of the information is useless.
All in all, it's striking me more and more that your complaints about Dominators in general are more likely about the /Energy powerset than anything else. Have you tried any of the other sets?
Like I said, my build will propably veer into more and more PvP-oriented as time goes by. Howver, things like Terrify and mass confusion are unlikely ever to leave the build, I think. They are too good in pve and have uses in PvP as well. Besides I don't think Im running out of respecs any time soon (with veteran ones I should have abouts 5-6 left at my disposal, although I havent done the villain respec trial yet on any of my villains, heheh)
I recognize the fact that sirens builds will always be lacking something. While Im ready to play in Sirens, I dont consider it the end of PvP. More than anything I just want confirmation that Doms start to work in PvP at some point. The level is not that important, though hopefully at least at 50, heh. Meaning I want to know that its worthwhile to continue playing my dom the rest of the lvls. So far I havent seen much evidence to suggest so.
At least with recent changes and total focus my dom has started to work in PvE. Thats something. My 'complaints' about sirens are merely random musings... I wish I didnt have such a loud voice.
About the guide, Filth linked to several guides, or someone else did.. But I can't seem to find the post right now.. There was a guide about dominators in general and it had some advice I didnt agree with. Among other things, it essentially said that "get AOE hold asap" - which is something you DON'T want to do blindly when youre playing a mind dom. Total domination sucks donkey balls out of the box, and is only tolerable fully slotted and when used with power boost. I actually recommend pve doms to skip it. The only practical use for it is mitigating mobs alpha strike, because otherwise terrify is twenty times better than total domination. Mass Confusion propably as well but I only just got it.
[ QUOTE ]
That said, if you're really taking the goal of not being able to kill anyone anyway (which I still disagree with, but it is your choice), then maybe having all those handy tools like Confuse, TK, Terrify and so on IS more useful for you. It still stinks, to me, of trying to be a Controller when you're not one, but again... your choice.
[/ QUOTE ]
If I find that killing someone is actually possible, I might revise my opinion, but I will propably need to level my dom first to get slots and test. Anyway, you will be hard-pressed to convince me that power blast has something to do with killing players in PvP, no matter how it is slotted.
I don't have an /NRG but I can assure you that slotting the tier 2 blast is worth it. Impale's initial strike deals very very very very very close damage that of Power Blast.
Many times I have gotten the last strike with Impale, followed by Thorny Darts after it. Remember, that the damage becomes pretty good when you have Domination on. This also helps out with the DPS you need to take out squishies when the hold period is in session. Bonesmasher and TF aren't enough!
I'd probably 6-slot Power Blast (2acc, 2 dam, 1 endred 1 recred or something like that). The damage may seem pants but it does add up since you'll be using it a lot. The problem with /energy for doms is that it's such a stupidly slow set, but at least Power Blast beats Power Bolt, which IMO is almost as horrible as Flares.
[ QUOTE ]
There was a guide about dominators in general and it had some advice I didnt agree with. Among other things, it essentially said that "get AOE hold asap"
[/ QUOTE ]
Wrong guide.
Try Hambone's Guide to Dominator Zone PvP instead.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
Nice guide. Interesting reading, although I didnt find new info or hard data from sets and stuff im interested in or sets that Im already familiar to. It still has number of mistakes in it. For instance, it claims that standard break free lasts 15 seconds while in actuality it lasts 30. Kind of important to know for doms. Other stuff needs fixing too but overall nice sum-up of doms.
Ps. I had some nice fights in sirens call last night, cheered me up (until everybody started crashing though.. ). Especially a lv 20-30 dom who did everything right and gave good fight. I wish people would stop moaning about insps though. Even after I was joined by an empath he still moaned about insps
pps. afaik impale does about 20% more damage than power blast, although I dont really have any reliable info.. Nofuture doesnt seem interested about energy assault, so it lists its damage as 0
http://www.nofuture.org.uk/cox/
Impale:
Effect 47.71 Lethal Damage'
Effect 7 * 3.61 Toxic Damage over 6.10 seconds (after 0.5 second delay) (80% chance)
Power Blast:
Effect 11.57 Smashing Damage
Effect 36.15 Energy Damage
[b][color=blue]Coldest War /[color=red]/ Omega Patient[/b]
[url="http://www.the-cow.net/"][color=red]The CoW Network (Blog) /[/url][url="http://www.collegeofwar.com/"][color=blue]/ College of War[/url]
Weird.. wheres the link to there, from here ?
ps. According to that, power blast is weaker than I thought (or you could say that impale is stronger than I thought). It only does about 65% of the damage of impale.
No idea, I originally found the link to that on the boards here...
[b][color=blue]Coldest War /[color=red]/ Omega Patient[/b]
[url="http://www.the-cow.net/"][color=red]The CoW Network (Blog) /[/url][url="http://www.collegeofwar.com/"][color=blue]/ College of War[/url]
[ QUOTE ]
Weird.. wheres the link to there, from here ?
[/ QUOTE ]Through the NoFuture forums. City of Data is still somewhat WiP and thus not integrated to the main site yet.
The City of Data project is an overhauled version of the old powers display that is currently still linked on the main site. The new database is still not entirely finished (still some coding issues to fix), so there's no link to it on the main site anywhere yet. RedTomax has been rather lax the last month or two in updating anything, so I'm uncertain if the new database will ever get tied in to the main webpage.
I was (and still am) the primary consultant for the new (and old) powers data on NoFuture (I handled the majority of the core data, while RedTomax coded it into a web-readable format), so if you have any questions regarding the displays there, or just power data in general, I can probably answer them.
[ QUOTE ]
ps. According to that, power blast is weaker than I thought. It only does about 65% of the damage of impale.
[/ QUOTE ]
Impale:
Effect 47.71 Lethal Damage
Effect 7 * 3.61 Toxic Damage over 6.10 seconds (after 0.5 second delay) (80% chance)
Power Blast:
Effect 11.57 Smashing Damage
Effect 36.15 Energy Damage
Each DoT tick for Impale has an 80% chance of occuring, and if one tick fails this check, then all remaining ticks are cancelled, so the average number of ticks for a power with 7 possible ticks is approximately 3.161
Base total damage of Power Blast: 47.72
Base total damage of Impale (0 DoT ticks): 47.71 (100% of Power Blast)
Base total damage of Impale (7 DoT ticks): 72.98 (153% of Power Blast)
Base total damage of Impale (3.161 ticks): 59.12 (124% of Power Blast)
[ QUOTE ]
Base total damage of Impale (3.161 ticks): 59.12 (124% of Power Blast)
[/ QUOTE ]
Funny how I often nd up being more right with a statement that was pure assumption based on gut-feeling..
Thanks for info.
After my first arena experience, I updated my future build to look like this. It still has PvE elements cause I don't want to make a char that I wouldnt enjoy playing.
---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name: Victor Warfield
Level: 50
Archetype: Dominator
Primary: Mind Control
Secondary: Energy Assault
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Levitate==> Acc(1) Acc(3) Rechg(19)
01) --> Power Bolt==> Acc(1) Acc(11) Dmg(40) Dmg(40)
02) --> Dominate==> Acc(2) Acc(3) Hold(5) Hold(7) Rechg(9) Rechg(13)
04) --> Bone Smasher==> Acc(4) Acc(5) Dmg(9) Dmg(13) Dmg(33) Rechg(46)
06) --> Confuse==> Acc(6) Acc(7) ConfDur(15) ConfDur(19)
08) --> Hurdle==> Jump(8) Jump(50)
10) --> Power Blast==> Acc(10) Acc(11) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) Rechg(40)
12) --> Combat Jumping==> Jump(12) Jump(46)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14) Jump(15)
16) --> Power Boost==> Rechg(16) Rechg(17) Rechg(17)
18) --> Health==> Heal(18)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(21) EndMod(21)
22) --> Telekinesis==> EndRdx(22) EndRdx(23) EndRdx(23) Rechg(43) Rechg(43)
24) --> Hasten==> Rechg(24) Rechg(25) Rechg(25)
26) --> Terrify==> Acc(26) Acc(27) Fear(27) Fear(29) Rechg(29) EndRdx(34)
28) --> Stimulant==> IntRdx(28)
30) --> Aid Self==> Heal(30) Heal(31) Heal(31) IntRdx(31) IntRdx(37)
32) --> Mass Confusion==> Acc(32) Acc(33) ConfDur(33) ConfDur(34) Rechg(34)
35) --> Total Focus==> Acc(35) Acc(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(37) EndRdx(37)
38) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(38)
41) --> Power Sink==> EndMod(41) EndMod(42) EndMod(42) Rechg(42) Rechg(43) Rechg(46)
44) --> Charged Armor==> EndRdx(44) DmgRes(45) DmgRes(45) DmgRes(45)
47) --> Power Burst==> Acc(47) Acc(48) Dmg(48) Dmg(48) Dmg(50)
49) --> Mesmerize==> Acc(49) Acc(50)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Domination==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------
Heres my new build for my Mind/en dominator, with PVP in mind mainly.
---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name: Victor Warfield
Level: 50
Archetype: Dominator
Primary: Mind Control
Secondary: Energy Assault
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Mesmerize==> Acc(1) Acc(3) Sleep(50)
01) --> Power Bolt==> Acc(1) Acc(11)
02) --> Dominate==> Acc(2) Acc(3) Hold(5) Hold(5) Rechg(7) Rechg(9)
04) --> Bone Smasher==> Acc(4) Acc(9) Dmg(11) Dmg(13) Dmg(21) EndRdx(50)
06) --> Confuse==> Acc(6) Acc(7) ConfDur(15) ConfDur(15) Rechg(43)
08) --> Combat Jumping==> Jump(8) Jump(37)
10) --> Power Blast==> Acc(10) Acc(13) Rechg(21)
12) --> Hasten==> Rechg(12) Rechg(17) Rechg(17)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14) Jump(29)
16) --> Power Boost==> Rechg(16) Rechg(19) Rechg(19)
18) --> Hurdle==> Jump(18) Jump(36) Jump(46)
20) --> Health==> Heal(20)
22) --> Stamina==> EndMod(22) EndMod(23) EndMod(23)
24) --> Telekinesis==> EndRdx(24) EndRdx(25) EndRdx(25) Rechg(37) Rechg(40)
26) --> Terrify==> Acc(26) Acc(27) Fear(27) Fear(31) Rechg(31) Rechg(31)
28) --> Total Focus==> Acc(28) Acc(29) Dmg(33) Dmg(33) Dmg(34) EndRdx(37)
30) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(30)
32) --> Mass Confusion==> Acc(32) Acc(33) ConfDur(34) ConfDur(34) Rechg(36) Rechg(36)
35) --> Stimulant==> Rechg(35)
38) --> Aid Self==> Heal(38) Heal(39) Heal(39) IntRdx(39) IntRdx(40) Rechg(40)
41) --> Power Sink==> EndMod(41) EndMod(42) EndMod(42) Rechg(42) Rechg(43) Rechg(43)
44) --> Power Burst==> Acc(44) Acc(45) Dmg(45) Dmg(45) Rechg(46) EndRdx(46)
47) --> Charged Armor==> DmgRes(47) DmgRes(48) DmgRes(48) EndRdx(48)
49) --> Super Speed==> Run(49) Run(50)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Domination==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------
I posted this here to have a place to discuss about the usefulness of mind/en in pvp, feel free to comment about the build although im not likely to listen anyway
EDIT: swapped stimulant and acrobatics