You sure youre not referring to endurance modification?
(Which modifies the rate of endurance is regained (just like Stamina))
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
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You sure youre not referring to endurance modification?
(Which modifies the rate of endurance is regained (just like Stamina))
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Nope: reduced endurance cost. I was baffled since the turning into a squid or dwarf doesn´t cost any endurance. But both have that slottingposibility so I was wondering if it means all of the attack will have reduced end cost? That would be loads better than the endurance modification.
Far as I understand it, Dwarf/Nova have a toggle cost in Endurance just like any other toggle, but they also have a mini-Stamina to negate that cost built into the form. Both can be slotted to reduce this cost (EndReds) or to boost the effect of the mini-Stamina (EndMod).
I may be utterly wrong, but I think that's how it goes.
Character references! Artz! Whatnot!
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Far as I understand it, Dwarf/Nova have a toggle cost in Endurance just like any other toggle, but they also have a mini-Stamina to negate that cost built into the form. Both can be slotted to reduce this cost (EndReds) or to boost the effect of the mini-Stamina (EndMod).
I may be utterly wrong, but I think that's how it goes.
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No 
You're correct on that.. both forms have their own "Stamina" ability, and can be slotted for it.
Aha, but is it a negelctable endurance-toggle-cost or is it smart to slot 3 SOs EndCost and 3 S=s EndMod?
No - don't bother slotting EndRed in the forms - hardly anyone does to my knowledge. EndMod gives you the best returns, I'm sure....
Despite the end usage - you tick back End really well in the forms so capitalise on making that better, I say...
Apart from that I wouldn't recommend 6 slots devoted to gaining/reducing End in forms anyway. a couple of end mods and a couple of To-Hit enha in Nova is the best bet to ensure you have enough end and can consistently hit mobs higher than you (within reason). 4 Slots is enough in Nova if you ask me. Any more than that and something somewhere is is undoubtedly suffering (though slot it up if you want to in the late game where you might not have anything else to slot
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Aha, but is it a negelctable endurance-toggle-cost or is it smart to slot 3 SOs EndCost and 3 S=s EndMod?
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2xtohit,2/3 endmods.. and ur fine.
OKay, was thinking 3xtohit and 3xendmod
As you mention dwarf and nova, does that mean you are a tri-form kheld? If a PB, you probably won't have enough slots to six slot Nova or Dwarf without missing out somewhere else.
I have a warshade yes. Do they differ that much from Peacebringers?
Kind of. You can build a Tri-Form-Warshade who - with the right powers slotted - is ready to be the deadliest thing floating around. That is because the most important powers you slot as tri-former are meant to make the Nova stronger.
On the PB side your options of buffing your other forms are quite limited (apart from Essence Boost). That means all your forms have to be well slotted for themselves. So you can´t be super-blaster in Nova, super-blapper in human form and super-tank in Dwarf. You have to make sacrifices to make one or two forms work, or you will perform sub-par in all three forms.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
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Kind of. You can build a Tri-Form-Warshade who - with the right powers slotted - is ready to be the deadliest thing floating around. That is because the most important powers you slot as tri-former are meant to make the Nova stronger.
On the PB side your options of buffing your other forms are quite limited (apart from Essence Boost). That means all your forms have to be well slotted for themselves. So you can´t be super-blaster in Nova, super-blapper in human form and super-tank in Dwarf. You have to make sacrifices to make one or two forms work, or you will perform sub-par in all three forms.
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So mainly PBs are suckier than WSs?
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So mainly triform PBs are suckier than triform WSs?
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Edited for what i think Sar was implying.
PB's can be very successful duo or pure builds. They seem to solo more efficiently, and have better ST damage.
......but i do agree that Shades outperform Bringers in forms.
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So mainly triform PBs are suckier than triform WSs?
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Edited for what i think Sar was implying.
PB's can be very successful duo or pure builds. They seem to solo more efficiently, and have better ST damage.
......but i do agree that Shades outperform Bringers in forms.
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okay I took it like PBs couldn´t tri-form. So mainly PBs are better in human form than WS?
It's hard to compare for any form. It depends on the build, the player and the situation.
In a very broad sense yes.
Its more documented that Shades perform better as triform because pretty much all their buffs are clicks, rather than toggles, thus carry across forms.
Pb's have more toggles, so its preferred to stay in one form.
Although, just this afternoon i jotted down an all-human WS build which would be very effective.
Thats the beauty of Kheldians, its rare to find 2 people with the same build 
(and can you define the word "better" next time please. One may be better at damage, one may be better at control or surviveability. Cheers )
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Pb's have more toggles, so its preferred to stay in one form.
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Not counting Forms, WS have 6 toggles, PBs have 5.
Edit - unless you count Energy and Combat flight of course.....
To elaborate a bit further:
Where PBs have normal (and short-lived) Build Up WSs have Sunless Mire and Dwarf Mire which last a good deal longer than Build Up and are thus more suited for buffing forms.
The next big hit for poor tri-form-PBs is the fluffy-test. WSs get those awesome purple fluffies who blast alongside their Nova and deal an awesome lot of damage. Instead of those "real" pets PBs get their white fluffies: Photon Seekers... which would be quite decent if they werent that slow-minded and if they wouldn´t all explode at one time in one opponent´s face (which leads to only one of them doing damage and the other two being wasted) and if their blast radius wouldn´t be that ridiculous (melee range).
And the last big difference is the real thing. WSs get Eclipse, a great resistance buff that carries over to forms and changes the Dark Nova into a flying fortress for a limited amount of time. PBs get Light Form which is a great armour buff like all of those ultimate armours (like Unstoppable & friends ) but prohibits changing forms.
These are the main three reasons for my statement.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
Feel I should defend the old PB a little here.
PB Nova will never be as powerfull as WS Nova because of mires and eclipse. They can dish out fairly good damage with just the AoE slotted though. Build Up may not last long but I'm guessing it's quicker to do than double mire and eclipse and after using both Nova AoE and then dropping to human for a Solar Flare or other AoE attack, all the minions are usually dead anyway.
Dwarf form is about 50/50 for which is better. PB won't do as much damage but has a better heal I believe and damage mitigation in Dwarf Flare. Essence boost will give you just over 2400HP and Conserve Energy will let you slug away with no End worries for a while.
Photon seekers can be stupid and annoying but they are good when they hit. Can easily get 6 mobs in the blast radius if they are all pounding on you at the time. Been using it for ToT recently - open door, fire seekers, three dead minions in 2 seconds flat.
Lightform does have downsides but it also has good points too. Mez resist, built in End recovery, don't think attacks root you still (?), can pass through mobs and most importantly last twice as long as Eclipse. That's pretty handy when facing something like an AV. When it drops, pop a CAB, Conserve Energy, Essence Boost, Reform Essence and you are back to almost full HP and ready to fight in under 6 seconds.
As you point out tho, a tri-form PB has the downside of having to slot all the forms to be effective and you just can't do that until the mid/late 40s.
Oh, I don´t think it is necessary to defend the PBs. They are great for what they do. They just work very different from WSs and that is my point.
If you want to be blast-o-licious you have to slot Nova forms, human form just can not do that. The difference here is what the Nova form can become. The way you describe the use of Build Up for Nova says it all: Bright Nova is a nice source for additional AoEs, but hardly comparable to the Purple Flying Fortress of Doom.
If we look at Dwarfs exclusively my vote would go to White Dwarf. His heal is good, he has a nice AoE and - as you said - Essence Boost and Conserve Energy help him do his job. But he has to be slotted heavily to really shine. Slots that would be missing in Nova or human form. Black Dwarf on the other hand needs only two things slotted to make this form worth taking: the form´s resistance and Dwarf Mire, everything else is bonus. That´s a lot more tri-form-friendly.
And I didn´t say that Photon Seekers were useless. But as you said, if you want to make any good use of them you have to activate them when you are already surrounded by mobs. So, basically they are a human form attack which is very much less form-friendly than purple fluffies.
And Light Form is great without a doubt. But as I stated it is a human form power that prohibits shapeshifting. It does not help your other forms at all.
So, if I look at all the facts I feel that I just don´t get nearly the same gain from taking all forms as a PB. You only reach full Purple Flying Fortress of Doom status if you have a tri-form-WS with a bruttaly slotted Nova and the other two forms slotted almost at will (apart from those key powers for PFFoD). There is no equally satisfying stunt for PBs that makes all three forms necessary. They can be really nice and durable blappers with a heavily slotted human form. Their Dwarf is really good, but you need a healthy amount of slots to make it worthwile for more than "emergency tanking" and the Bright Nova is fine, but very situational if you can´t afford to slot all attacks. A quck jump into Nova to throw those AoEs is nice in big teams, but solo or in smaller teams you get no good mileage from those AoEs because of the longish activation time for Nova form.
A human-only WS is quite a poor choice concerning efficiency until late 30s (then he is at least viable and can even be fun to play), a two-form can be quite good and a tri-form truly rocks. A human-only PB is good from the beginning and gets even better in the late game. Sure, a PB can take forms, but he will not be significantly better, he will just be different.
EDIT note: Please realize that everything said above is just rubbish if you have access to truckloads of Hami-Os. In that case you do have enough slots to build true tri-formers and you should never waste that opportunity for versatility.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
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Sure, a PB can take forms, but he will not be significantly better, he will just be different.
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See I don't feel that way. If I went all human I would have almost exactly the same build as I have for human now with maybe essence boost and glinting eye six slotted instead of four and possibly add Pulsar. Not really something I feel would make much difference to me. For that small sacrifice I get two extra forms - both of which are quite heavily slotted. It's just trickier to do with a PB and takes longer to achieve.
Just stumbled on this topic and lookin for advice on a keldian build im planning. Having played most alts im lookin for unusual builds. Already have a all human warshade which ive realy enjoyed playing to 35 so far. Now im thinking of concentrating on a Nova/Dwarf build with as little human as poss. Cant decide wether to go warshade or pb. Anyone think 1 stands out from the other as far as Nova/Dwarf concerned? i relise there will be pluses and minuses for both but as i say i wil go into human as little as possible
PB is better for Dwarf in terms of Survivability and aggro-control tanking.
WS is better for Dwarf in terms of Damage Output.
As a bi-form Dwarf/Human PB I found staying in Dwarfie-only very boring, but it makes a great panic button and properly slotted PB's Dwarf is a passable PUG Tank.
I imagine you'll be fine as a Human/Dwarf WS if you only drop to Human to spawn your pets and pop Stygian Circle after battle (and maybe Mire). Don't expect to be quite as survivable as a PB dwarf though, you won't get essence boost or a fast recharging PBAoE Knockdown, and your self heal needs a ToHit roll.
Dwarf-Heavy you'll have major, major problems with Voids. I advise slotting up the Hold and/or disorients from Human form even if it's only used for Quantum/Voids.
My PB was built as a blapper with Dwarf form taken for a panic button. It worked quite well, even if I ended up tanking most of my preatorian AVs rather than blapping them. 
So far I nearly always end up tanking for my team when I happen to play with my PB, so Im gonna keep dwarf in my next respec build but get rid of squid which is pretty pointless.
There is "reduced endurance cost". This can t mean the vost for turning into a squid or dwarf cause I don t see the bar moving even an inch. Does this refer to reducing the end cost for all attacks?