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If I had my way, these are the changes I would make...
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I like them all! Would settle for being able to tp the turret though.
UNION @Flitz 50, Lead Hose 50, Red Rag 50
DEFIANT Rose Bloodthorn 34
VIGILANCE Captain Caledonia 20 - Yeah, I made toons on the French server coz we only had 4 back then (might have to transfer/recreate them on one of the US servers)
..and many more!
I agree with pretty much everything in this thread./devices definately needs some love.
Unless I'm telemining in pvp zones I'm pretty useless in PVP tbh.
This could all be settled pretty simply by adding Build Up I think. Why not? All the other blaster secondaries have it.
Adding BU would mean need for removing something. Far better choice would be adding 30-60% damage buff to TD, since pre-ED, when dev was balanced, TD allowed slotting more damage, and this would in a way bring back that effect.
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Adding BU would mean need for removing something. Far better choice would be adding 30-60% damage buff to TD, since pre-ED, when dev was balanced, TD allowed slotting more damage, and this would in a way bring back that effect.
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Constant damage buff of that magnitude could easily go overpowered. ALthough saying that, if it was made to affect only the primary (not the mines etc), maybe something like that could be possible. Damage buff to TD would be one of the most powerful (practically possible) changes that I have heard of so far, not a bad idea MaX.
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Constant damage buff of that magnitude could easily go overpowered. ALthough saying that, if it was made to affect only the primary (not the mines etc),
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Device droppables are already unaffected by buffs on the player. In any case, I'd expect a 15-20% damage buff at most if such a thing happens, remember that TD already has a secondary function with the +Perception.
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Constant damage buff of that magnitude could easily go overpowered. ALthough saying that, if it was made to affect only the primary (not the mines etc),
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Device droppables are already unaffected by buffs on the player. In any case, I'd expect a 15-20% damage buff at most if such a thing happens, remember that TD already has a secondary function with the +Perception.
[/ QUOTE ]AFAIK TD does NOT transfer to spawned entities, since it's a toggle, not a click.
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Constant damage buff of that magnitude could easily go overpowered. ALthough saying that, if it was made to affect only the primary (not the mines etc),
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Device droppables are already unaffected by buffs on the player. In any case, I'd expect a 15-20% damage buff at most if such a thing happens, remember that TD already has a secondary function with the +Perception.
[/ QUOTE ]AFAIK TD does NOT transfer to spawned entities, since it's a toggle, not a click.
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As I already said, Device droppables do not gain the benefit of any buff(s) on the player. Buffs include Inspirations, Aim, Fulcrum Shift, Targeting Drone and similar powers.
Whether a buff is a toggle or not doesn't matter, a buff is a buff is a buff. If a power is affected by buffs then it is affected by all buffs regardless of their source.
The Rain powers, Burn and Ignite were specifically altered so that they are affected by buffs on the player, almost all other drop powers are unaffected by buffs on the player.
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Constant damage buff of that magnitude could easily go overpowered. ALthough saying that, if it was made to affect only the primary (not the mines etc),
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Device droppables are already unaffected by buffs on the player. In any case, I'd expect a 15-20% damage buff at most if such a thing happens, remember that TD already has a secondary function with the +Perception.
[/ QUOTE ]AFAIK TD does NOT transfer to spawned entities, since it's a toggle, not a click.
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As I already said, Device droppables do not gain the benefit of any buff(s) on the player. Buffs include Inspirations, Aim, Fulcrum Shift, Targeting Drone and similar powers.
[/ QUOTE ]Gah, misread and thought you said they are affected 
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Gah, misread and thought you said they are affected
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Having thought on this, I can see where an exploit could be used very efficiently with TP Friend; but I'm not gonna try it or reveal it for the obvious reason. I'd agree Devices/Traps really need something special as the set seems built for 'Death Traps' but doesn't actually allow you to set anything more than 'Minor Niggle' traps without getting taken apart.
TD WAS overpowered (6/12 free slots please? Thank you very much) but now it seems more like nice additions. My Ninja/Traps can take down enemies just as fast and safely with or without Traps; it's just Traps allow me a little leeway to read my paper.
From what I can estimate at the exploit though, you won't be seeing a fix any time soon.
There's not really a comparison between Devices and Traps - having played an AR/Dev to 50 and a Bots/Traps to 40, Traps easily wins out.
Devices
- Web Grenade: meh.
- Caltrops: handy but hardly a lifesaver
- Taser: combined with Beanbag you've got a useful single target stun
- Targeting Drone: hit hard by ED, nice but far less essential
- Smoke Grenade: double meh.
- Cloaking Device: Invisibility... saves a power pool choice but that's it.
- Trip Mine: I've taken out AVs solo with enough patience and mines, not to mention a few Stalkers 
- Time Bomb: Tricky to use
- Auto Turret: useful as a damage soak/pull mechanism but much less use without TP Friend
So in all, only really one "killer app" power - and no Build Up.
Now compare with:
- Web Grenade: still meh.
- Caltrops: handy, especially combined with...
- Poison Trap: mass hold, slow, and -regen? Yum!
- Triage Beacon: very, very weak power
- Trip Mine: as above
- Acid Mortar: lower damage than the Auto Turret but hugely useful debuffs
- Detonator (MM version): sounds fun, but takes too long to sacrifice a "damaged" minion and a healthy one's more use to you alive. As long as they don't get cocky.
Is it time for the dance of joy yet?
I haven't read the whole of this thread, just the initial post and some of the more recent responses. I agree that devices does need a little help. I used it prior to ED, and have played about with it a little since. I ultimately deleted the character, basically because I didn't feel it was worth the slot it was taking up given the better alternatives I have.
Devices used to be almost up there with Energy Manipulation in terms of the Blaster Secondaries (which have always been massively varying in effectiveness), maybe even as good. Now, if it wasn't for one single very good power it would definitely be the worst all round. It is certainly weak for big team situations where people are primarily looking to blasters for damage.
ED hit the damage output with a sledgehammer.
Although Tripmine can be good when soloing and with TP, whenever I stand next to a devices blaster in a team at high level I am unimpressed by their damage, I frequently see them being challenged in damage output by certain Scrapper, Controller and Defender builds.
While you can make interesting builds to PvP which may work in certain circumstances, overall the set is weak in my opinion.
Fire manipulation is still pretty weak for soloing though, and a tough one in situations where you're not familiar with whoever is controlling the aggro. Much improved for teaming since they changed the rooting on FSC however, and at least it has build up to give the primary some more oomph.
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There's not really a comparison between Devices and Traps
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Traps is better designed than Devices, but that shouldn't be much of a surprise with the experience the devs have gotten between the design of the two powersets.
As for your powerset assessment:
Web Grenade brings down fliers and helps against runners.
Caltrops is great if you don't want to engage in melee in PvE. In PvP it helps against Stalkers and runners.
Targeting Drone is lovely for the +Perception.
Cloaking Device doesn't have a -Speed component while Stealth (which is the correct comparison power) does. In this regard it is balanced with Cloak of Darkness (Dark Armor) and Shadow Cloak (WS secondary power)
Time Bomb could definately benefit from a shorter recharge and interrupt/activation time. Making it remotely detonated could be an interesting alternative for both Devices and Corruptor Traps.
Triage Beacon is only somewhat weak because it can't be moved, otherwise it is very powerful. Integration level AoE regen.
Force Field Generator is nice
Seeker Drones can be used to pull something into a trap field.
Improving upon the sub-par powers may require a retooling of other sets to preserve inter-AT balance. Smoke Grenade buffed? Smoke and Flash Arrow should logically recieve a similar buff since they are in effect the same power and they are in sets that have a greater focus on Buffs/DeBuffs. And that may improve those sets too much which will warrant a downwards adjustment for other powers, or in other words screw up the builds of non-Devices players. Similar concerns for anything shared with either Traps set.
Taser and Targeting Drone could get some adjustments without affecting too much else. The remaining powers can be found in other sets, in some form.
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There's not really a comparison between Devices and Traps
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Traps is better designed than Devices, but that shouldn't be much of a surprise with the experience the devs have gotten between the design of the two powersets.
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Alot of that is down to it being a defensive set and not a blaster secondary as well as working with pets in a conceptual way. I agree with everything you have just said though.
Devices played well, could be, taking out atleast most of whole groups using just enough mines to do enough of for team survivability/complete job against enemy keeping set up time to a minimum between fights. Some tanks may want to herd a huge dangerous mob and say "mines please".
Ideally for teams:
Set up+fight duration = normal fight duration of team without set up
But it wont as mines can stack into a enormous laggy bang that could offer the team a risk free non-fight, so balance has to be somewhere.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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TD WAS overpowered (6/12 free slots please? Thank you very much) but now it seems more like nice additions.
[/ QUOTE ]TD was what made /dev as powerful as other secondaries, maybe overpowered in itself but not when looking at the whole device secondary.
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Any changes made to the set for pvp and i'd imagine would have to be done to whats already coded in, cos they cant game break for it and wont want to affect anyones QoL by changing the feel or the concept. So im thinking seriously low interrupt time on tripmines to a basic plant it quick scenario, extend duration of smoke grenade so as to disappear when stacked with stealth for longer, a greater -spd on caltrops and a faster drop time and longer lifetime for turret (its not like anyone could say "stop the fight pls i wish to build a turret") and perhaps taser should be taser dart.
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I agree with all that. Oh and Trix, feel free to challenge me anytime