Tanking help for a PB


Amazing_Shnyet

 

Posted

Hi all. I just hit 20 with my PB and realised something: I have no idea about how I'm supposed to tank. My 50 is a defender so I'm used to being squishy and having less-than-blaster-level blasts, but the dwarf form is really throwing me. I really like using it, and being not so squishy is great, but I don't seem to do much good to the rest of the team and I die a lot (I do anyway, but thats neither here nor there ).

So, my point is, can anyone offer me any help/advice/constructive insults on tanking as a PB?

Thanks in advance...


 

Posted

Maybe it's because my first toon was a tank but I don't really think of what dwarf can do as tanking (although I'm sure others will disagree).

You can take the alpha, use antagonize to taunt a few mobs and keep things busy with your attacks but at nowhere near the same level as a proper tank. Unslotted it's quite poor but even slottted you won't be contributing loads of damage so you will feel a bit like you aren't helping the team as much. Always thought of it as more of a self preservation power than a team power.

That said there are times when a team will benefit hugely from a mini tank so advice wise....

You will die more than a tank. Resists are not huge (especially if you haven't slotted the form yet) and you won't last too long against a large number of mobs or high damage. Slot the form with 3 dam res first and then slot up the heal and Dwarf Flare as they will help keep you alive longer.

Slot the antagonie with recharge, acc and taunt if you are serious about holding aggro.

Hasten and Conserve Energy will carry over to Dwarf and will help a lot by letting you fight longer and heal/taunt/bash stuf more quickly.

Pop the odd luck early on to give yourself some defence before your HP drops low.

Respites heal on your human HP, not the Dwarf HP so they are nowhere near as useful.

Careful about tp'ing into groups as you hover for a while and can't use Flare.

Enjoy Dwarfy.


 

Posted

I completely agree with Faultline. It's very hard to tank properly with a peacebringer, at least without serious slotting commitment. I had never had a tank when I first got Dwarf, now I do and I'm blown away by how much more effective it is at holding aggro and maneuvring mobs.

It is great to have the option though. Sometimes there's just not a tanker to be found, and sometimes there's a temporary need for a second tank, and the Dwarf can easily fill in then. Versatility is after all the name of the game .

I have lightly slotted up mine, mainly the form, heal and flare. I'm sure it would be a lot more effective if I sacrificed some more slots to it, especially the taunt. I'm not sure it would ever be good enough to be worth it, though. You must already have noticed how tight slotting is on a triform peacebringer, so slotting the dwarf heavily means your other forms will suffer a lot.


 

Posted

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Hasten and Conserve Energy will carry over to Dwarf and will help a lot by letting you fight longer and heal/taunt/bash stuf more quickly.


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Also unless i am mistaken essence boost also carries over into the forms? handy for a few extra hp


 

Posted

I was trying to remember if it did or not but couldn't so left it out. I think it does but not sure what impact it has as Dwarf HP is already higher than human and I'm not sure it gets boosted twice. May just get the toxic resistance part of the power.

I'll check.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I was trying to remember if it did or not but couldn't so left it out. I think it does but not sure what impact it has as Dwarf HP is already higher than human and I'm not sure it gets boosted twice. May just get the toxic resistance part of the power.

I'll check.

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Lobster form Max Health buff should stack with Essence Boost. There used to be a cap of +80% for Max Health buffs for all ATs, but that was removed/raised at some point.


 

Posted

Cool, that was pretty much what I was looking for. It was just cruel irony that I dinged 20, got dwarf form, and then the only tank left so I felt I had to at least try and tank a bit

That was what I was doing as well I think, and mostly the way I had planned the form out to. Just spent my time going round and trying to taunt and hit as many different things as posible really. But dwarf doesn't get... punchvoke, is it? So does just hitting stuff work as an aggro-gathering tactic?

I know it doesn't really matter but I'd like to at least *think* I know what I'm doing (occasionally)


 

Posted

It's Gauntlet but most people call it punchvoke. Dwarf doesn't get it I'm afraid and whilst your attacks will gather aggro, they are low damage and it will be pulled off you pretty easily by higher damage attacks. On the plus side all three attacks do knockdown which keeps mobs out of the fight for a bit.


 

Posted

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So, my point is, can anyone offer me any help/advice/constructive insults on tanking as a PB?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, don't do it, basically because you can't.
Dwarfs just can't hold agro well enough to tank, so just think of it as your im-out-of-my-depth-for-nova-or-human power,


(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe it's because my first toon was a tank but I don't really think of what dwarf can do as tanking (although I'm sure others will disagree).

[/ QUOTE ]

A dwarf has limited tanking ability shall we say and doesnt qualify as a real alternative for one in general unless its one of those gimped tanks your comparing it too. Very unlikely to keep a debuffer safe amongst a group of 17 foes. I have had to 6 slot antagonise (2 acc 2 rechg 2 taunt) to try to compete with a tanker but its still wont be as good as an aura and taunt that would keep a debuffer comfortably safe, the 2 rechg is to build the numbers taunted fairly quickly, the acc is to not miss and the duration should be about right to allow some attacking.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

I was never expecting to be able to tank as well as a Tank, obviously, but I thought it might be useful to learn a few tips and tricks about how I can at least help out. One thing I have just discovered is that dwarf form really begins to kick [censored] with SB


 

Posted

the way i use dwarf is to first scrap away in human form, and when my endurance and hit points get low, I pull back with the aggro I have accumulated, enter Dwarf and slowly regain health and endurance while still holding the aggro of a red/purple boss or two..
Then I go back to human and kill them.. arrest, Arrest I mean.


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"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.

 

Posted

I've tanked a good bit as a Dwarfie PB. They're often a lot more survivable than people give them credit for, especially if there's a handy empath around to cast Fortitude on you...

In terms of powers, they have an AOE knockdown, 60% (3 slotted) resistance to all but PSI and can heal half their HP every 30 seconds with slotted heal. Essence Boost's HP buff also carries over, although the %boost is based on your human HP.

The downside is you don't have any defense, none of your resists are capped, and you lack a taunt aura. Flare recharges fairly quickly when slotted but is your only real AOE aggro holder power besides your Taunt, and unlike tanker taunts, dwarfie Taunt isn't autohit in PVE.

I've used dwarfie to tank most AVs and GMs (including the PSI Clockwork King... yay for Quantum flight to absorb the alpha and dwarfy's heal!). In terms of survivability, you can certainly tank a tentacle (or two) from Lusca unaided, but the likes of Infernal will cream you without a LOT of support.

Dwarfies are NOT good at herding, and cannot generally tank more than one spawn at a time without controllers in the team. One 8-man invincible level mob is usually tankable as long as you have slotted flare and antagonise and use them (sensibly) whenever they are up.

Generally before a big mob I'll buff up in Human (Hasten, Essence Boost, Conserve Energy, Photon Seekers are all useful) --&gt; Quantum Flight into the mob, switch to dwarfie, flare the nearby mobs and antagonise the others. Continue spamming Flare and Antagonise throughout the battle. After the fight to eliminate downtime, shift to Human for access to a second heal. It can get a little crazy, but it's doable.

My Dwarfie slotting is below. It's a bit underslotted in the heal and possibly antagonise.
Flare could also use Two extra damage SOs for extra aggro.

White Dwarf==&gt; DmgRes DmgRes DmgRes EndMod EndMod
White Dwarf Strike==&gt; Acc
White Dwarf Smite==&gt; Acc
White Dwarf Flare==&gt; Acc Rechg Rechg EndRdx
White Dwarf Sublimation==&gt; Heal Heal Rechg Rechg
White Dwarf Antagonize==&gt; Acc Rechg Rechg Taunt
White Dwarf Step==&gt; Range


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
... as long as you have slotted flare and antagonise and use them (sensibly) whenever they are up.

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Well, thats really the bit I was wondering about... How do you use them sensibly? ...Am I being thick?

At the moment, I just use them to try to keep as many enemies on me as I can while I slowly whittle their health away... Only just got SO's though, and only 22 so got the form 3 res slotted, but thats it so far. Thanks for the slotting tips though.


 

Posted

"Sensible use" would generally be hitting as many mobs as possible with Flare and Antagonise each time it's up, unless you have a teammate(s) currently in danger.

Generally you'll want to try to herd as many enemies as possible (within reason- one mob's fine), keeping their aggression foccussed on you rather than your squishier teammates. If scrappers or a blapper pulls a mob or two away from you then leave them to it unless they get into trouble (throw an antagonise), focus on spamming Flare and Antagonise onto the majority of the mob. If you start having major HP issues despite your heal (which will happen regularly in large teams without a dedicated healer) then that's when you start popping insps!

You want to have a lot of purples in your tray if you're a PB tanker, since they'll help out the most in terms of damage mitigation when you're in trouble. My tray is usually 8 purples, 4 healths, 4 Breakfrees (damn that Human Form mezzing), 2 Blues, an awaken and 1 slot free for team gifts. Big Oranges (the + 20% damage resistance ones) are always good to replace purples if you can find them.

The awaken is rarely used, but can help a lot if given to a teammate that can rez after a team wipe... I took the human-form self rez so dwarfie generally gets up again on his own (can be v. useful after a bad fight...)
*PB self rezzes, pops 2-3 purples, hits EB, toggles on Dwarfie and proceeds to unleash The Whomping (tm)*


 

Posted

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proceeds to unleash The Whomping (tm)*

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Sheer genius

Discussion Point :

Who makes the better "Tank", a Warshade or the aforementioned Peace Bringer.
At first glance, id say the PB, as the PBAoE KU is a great tool for Tanking. Warshades equivalent is Dwarf Mire. PBAoE minimal damage, nice range, increasing damage and accuracy for a short time.

So is it fair to say that WS is more like a Fire Tank, ie, "zomg kill zem before they kill me", while PB is more the Ice Tank "zomg control them before they kill me"

Personally i think the PB makes the better "make-shift Tank" just for the fact that it's self heal doesnt need an accuracy check

Although all that changes at 38 obviously. When Warshades get Eclipse........and can Tank in Nova form


 

Posted

I'd say PB are better tankers in dwarf form, because of three points:

* Flare for aggro control.
* No acc check in their heal.
* Essense Boost and Conserve Energy carry over from Human to dwarf form.

Another thing that can be very useful in smaller mobs is Pulsar, since when slotted you can effectively keep all minions and 50% of LTs mezzled near-permanently (after +2 mobs you'll begin to notice a short gap without hasten running). It takes reasonably long to activate, but it can be worth downshifting to human temporarily to fire it off if you have most enemies otherwise occupied (eg. in the middle of a knockup/down animation). If you get mezzed, pop one of those Breakfrees...

More than a few times I've had to play a little crazy in order to tank adds, pulsaring the second group can make or break the battle. You can also chain Dwarfie Flare and Human Footstomp in order to get a little breathing space (PBAoE Knockup followed by a fast-activating PBAoE Knockback, then click Human Heals or Hasten etc. and switch back to dwarfie to herd them again)

In a few Dire, Dire emergencies when we're getting really overcome by mobs I've used Build-up/Dawn Strike... followed by popping a blue, hitting conserve energy/Geas of the Kind ones for the +end and switching either to dwarf form or light form to handle the resulting aggro and keep fighting.

I've not much experience with Warshades, but from what I've seen they're really built for being damage dealing junkies with double mire and the Eclipse/Nova combo. The only time I'd rather have a Warshade dwarf-only tank is if we're up against PSI mobs (when Eclipse &gt; Light form!)

-----------------------------------

Slightly OT... I'd like to stress that I haven't built my PB as a tanker, but as a Human-form blapper that can shift into Dwarfie when he or the team gets into trouble.

I've had to develop some tanking skills over my route to 50 because quite often in PUGs they will lack a tank, or the tank leaves early, or the tank is too incompetent or scared to tank certain mobs. (I've tanked the Psychic CW King AV mission because our INV tanker didn't have the striga isle arc's wedding ring temp power and with absolutely no psi resistance he was too scared to attempt it)

One of the funniest points of my PB's career was being tank for a group with two INV tankers, a fire/kin troller and 4 blasters... Neither of the Inv tanks had taunt or unstoppable (were fighting Fire/Energy mobs and later on the Envoy of Shadows AV) and the others were dropping like flies until I shifted to dwarfie and starting herding the mobs. Ended up successfully tanking the AV with the kin using Speedboost/Increase Density on me and spamming Heals... the Tankers couldn't even hold aggro over me.

But as with anything else, Dwarfie has his weaknesses.
I HATE Malta Sappers, and too many stacked -recharges can also kill me pretty quickly, Hasten or not.
(Geas the kind ones accolade (for +recovery/+recharge) is about my dwarfy's only defense against these).
The other thing that's really annoying is if you get a lot of -acc on you, since Dwarf taunt isn't autohit and you have no aura, you can't keep aggro.