Vigilance is fab

I haven't seen a vigilance whine in ages and the defender board is so slow these days. How are people finding it now that they have had a chance to use it for a while? Has anyone factored it into their builds? I know I've dropped down to one end redux in all my storm powers because of it.

Perhaps it is just the empaths that find it useless but on my FF and Storm defenders I just think it's fab. My end rarely goes down because they are both defending sets where you will have people with reduced health (even quite low with forcefield and a long fight) but not really in imminent danger of dying. You get a huge endurance discount from this.

If I solo then the end drain is noticeable, especially on my stormie. I wouldn't not say that I activate powers less frequently in groups either as I'm always using all my powers and blasting constantly, on both FF and Stormie.

So, in summary, I find Vigilance.. totally.. fab.

Only time I notice it is when ressing people, it doesn't drain quite as much end as it used to... Other than that, useless for me.

For my Kin I find it useless, as I tend to keep most of the team at full health or it is a large enough one to have an empath. The only person who ever has low health or endurance is me.

Don't have stamina on my dark defender and don't usually have end problems even when running two leadership toggles, shadowfall, darkest night and spaming off other stuff from my primary. If I leave SS on and start firing off a few attacks too, then my end starts to go down a bit. I like Vigilance.

Agree totally, my emp doesnt ever notice it, but then, with stamina she never drops end really anyways.
My storm though, even though she's only low level, you notice it amazingly in the hollows! If peoples health drops low, she can keep her toggles running and not even really notice
I like Vigilance alot!

Frankly speaking i've never noticed it... when i run Chocking Cloud, Temporal Invulnreability, RI and EF, i have to keep an eye to my end or I can run out of it even haveing Stamina and end red slotted. (specially after using EMP)...

yeah vigilance is great!

When I'm playing my storm defender or my rad you will often hear me ask someone on the team to take some tactical damage so I can keep my toggles running

I don't find it totally useless on my Empath either... maybe because I am now playing a controller empath but when I go back to Psygon, my real empath, it's like a breath of fresh air to be so full of endurance all the time

Pah. What is the Vigilence you speak of. Soloth has always got the blue stuff dripping from his ears anyway.

If he had ears.

Personally I think its an unbalanced power. For Kinetics its completely useless as with poor Sol. Empaths aren't usually overladen with End issues either. And FF are "precombat" orientated so End may not be an issue here either.

Why doesn't it alter the defender index value for heals, buff & debuffs? Thats the AT multiplier defenders have for heals & buffs / debuffs.

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Personally I think its an unbalanced power. For Kinetics its completely useless as with poor Sol. Empaths aren't usually overladen with End issues either. And FF are "precombat" orientated so End may not be an issue here either.

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I kinda disagree... I think all defenders benefit from vigilance between the lvls of 1 and 20ish (depending on when they either take stamina, a useful endurance regain power or get enough slots on their powers to have some handy end redux in there).

Some will then carry on benefiting slightly from this power as the game progresses, but since defending is really about the art of stopping your team taking much damage if you are doing a good job you won't notice the benefits as much or as often.

Saying that, my storm definitely benefits from someone getting hit a few times so I can throw out clouds for less.

Is it good to be "rewarding" you for doing badly though. And is the "reward" worth it?

I know its not as simple as that but it is quite a negative thing compared to every other inherent bar the Blaster one. Most others are either always on or reward you for being good at your job, Domination, Containment, Scourge, Fury are "your doing well" rewards. Criticals, Punch-voke, Suprmancy are more neutral but help you you your job better all the time. Only the poor Defenders & Blasters get rewarded for getting the stuffing kicked out of them or their mates. A semi-decent team and you won't even evoke them.

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Is it good to be "rewarding" you for doing badly though. And is the "reward" worth it?

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Perhaps it's not great that you are rewarded for doing your job badly... but in some ways that kind of works well in my head (conceptually). When the going gets tough for your team you put in that extra bit of effort and the adrenalin makes you feel like you have a little more stamina to get the job done.

I dunno, I suppose I never really considered too much whether the inherent was great or not... just been on teams where people have made jokey comments about it, I guess a bit like blasters make jokes of their inherent...

I agree it does sort of fit with the comic book image of Jean Grey giving the last ounce of will to save the day. Or the girl in the Incredibles throwing up a shield just in time. But in-game isn't quite the same.

Basically I ignore it anyway and just assume I have no inherent It'd be nice to have something a little more obvious maybe. Not too sure what though

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Why doesn't it alter the defender index value for heals, buff & debuffs? Thats the AT multiplier defenders have for heals & buffs / debuffs.

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Because this would mean for a FF defender to take advantge of it he would have wait until the team was mostly dead to apply the forcefields. Just perma fixed duration clicky debuffs ( almost the whole Trick arrow set ) would barely benefit at all unless the team was doing badly at the point it was applied.

For toggle buffs ( Shadowfall, Dispersion Field, Sonic Dispersion ) and instantaneous power ( Heals etc ) this would be good though.

Couldn't de/buffs be calculated dynamically on some sort of "tick" basis?

So rather than just calculate it and apply, calculate the it except for the AT mod and every second or so recheck and modify the values. Ingame it sort of makes sense. We've all seen Forcefield girl throw extra will into strengthening someones shield.

Could be a massive amount of work though. May not be, depending on how it currently works.

The main problem with Vigilance, or almost any other Inherent power you could think of, is that Defenders as a whole are just about as varied in playstyle as the other ATs combined.

None of the primaries play like each other at higher levels, while there are similarities there are also important differences. What one primary could use as an Inherent is almost completely useless to another.

I think its the worst inherent power ever. I never used to run out of end and i still dont.

Strikes me a better one would have been to increase the recharge speed of a defenders powers as his teammates health falls.

Froma n empath point of view, i never had anyone die cus i ran out of end. I have had people die because i cant spam powers fast enough tho...

I have to say I'm surprised, particularly before lvl 20, that not a single person you ever teamed with died because you ran out of endurance.

I'll hold my hand up here and say, yes people died as I had no endurance - I certainly remember this from respec trials where no one ever had enough CABs to go around by the time we got half way through the reactor.

Also, I remember trying to do Positron. It was painful - there really wasn't enough of my endurance to go around. When I've gone back and exemped down with vigilance it was far easier endurance wise...

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I think its the worst inherent power ever. I never used to run out of end and i still dont.

Strikes me a better one would have been to increase the recharge speed of a defenders powers as his teammates health falls.

Froma n empath point of view, i never had anyone die cus i ran out of end. I have had people die because i cant spam powers fast enough tho...

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From an Empath PoV the recharge may be important. But for a Kinetics who is probably already hypercharged? Or a FF who has already put the shields up?

Not easy this designing inherents lark is it

I'd personally prefer a "power boost" effect buffing heals, slows, resistances etc as teammates fall or run for it, but YMMV.

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The main problem with Vigilance, or almost any other Inherent power you could think of, is that Defenders as a whole are just about as varied in playstyle as the other ATs combined.

None of the primaries play like each other at higher levels, while there are similarities there are also important differences. What one primary could use as an Inherent is almost completely useless to another.

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I agree entirely. As someone else said recharge is important to an empath, but to a Kin it is pointless as they are limited by their animation times.

Endurance is probably important to most pre 20. But the idea of an inherent that is only useful before level 20 seems stupid.

So the only way would be to make it good for all, so perhaps mez protection + recharge + end discount when everyone is low on HP? Okay but still doesn't really help FF ( who have mez protection already ).

In fact what could FF do when the teams hitpoints are low, the only thing I can think of is blast more which is covered by the end discount and recharge boost above.

Sounds flexible to me Unthing, without having to rewrite massive chunks of code for dynamic buff/debuff strengths too.

Make it so!

vigilance is the dogs b******s for PvP arena team matches

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vigilance is the dogs b******s for PvP arena team matches

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lol. Thats alright then.

I take it all back so. Long live vigilance

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Sounds flexible to me Unthing, without having to rewrite massive chunks of code for dynamic buff/debuff strengths too.

Make it so!

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it does sound good, perhaps a little too good?

mez protection, recharge and endurance discount? suddenly defenders are going to be pretty powerful as long as they let someone stay dead for a mission or so...

Well I don't like the "reward bad things happening" aspect of Vigiance or Defiance.

Anyone got an idea for a more neutral or positive version. Could defenders be allowed to get "mini-criticals" on heals or buffs / debuffs, that occasionally you get a more powerful effect. The only issue with that is someone spamming Speed Boost to get a Critical. Make it so that the repeat castings only reset the expiration, not the magnitude and that cancels that.

Could be playing into the AOE debuff sets though. Maybe AOE debuffs should get less value from the "crit"