You're right about attacks, you don't really need them at all. I took one with my Necro/Dark to pull enemies around corners into a Tar Patch and my waiting goons before ganking them. Also its handy for if it all goes horribly wrong and you're left alone.
Robo/Dark is considered the strongest combo I believe. Dark is certainly very powerful and works with any primary really.
Yup to echo Carnifax, Dark works with everything, and bots are a very strong primary, especially past 32 for AoE madness 
As for personal attacks, no real need, Pick some lovely /dark goodness instead!
I tried, in my last respec to get rid of my personal attacks but couldnt because i didnt want all the /dark powers, my necro pets do most of whats in that set anyway!! Could have realy done with a few more pool powers 
But like some say, personal attacks come in handy when all pets suddenly go CAPUT!! 
Bots/Dark is efficient, powerful and good fun - and I usually hate pet classes in MMOs! 
My Bot/Dark is L35, can solo fine on all difficulty settings (usually stay on Ruthless though to avoid Heroes/AVs) and I have few problems teaming with friends either - it's a great combo. Once you get your tactics sorted you shouldn't die unless you make a mistake, as it should be.
I took everything from /Dark except Black Hole - it might be useful to isolate a boss from his minions/lieuts but Fearsome Stare can do that too - otherwise all the /Dark powers are fantastic.
From Robotics I took all the bots/upgrades, but just one attack: Pulse Rifle Burst (best single target damage attack) - I sometimes use it to finish off runners while my bots focus on other targets (you dont want them wasting a volley of AE attacks just to take a sliver of life from a runner). And against an EB/AV/Hero I can throw in some extra damage to make myself feel useful (since the L32 pet buff I'm starting to wonder if the bots need me at all! ). You could skip it, but it's a help at lower levels when you only have 1-2 bots - and it looks cool 
I didn't take Repair because the /Dark heal, Twilight Grasp, is fantastic - keep your bots close to you and you can heal them all with it. Put 2 Accuracy SOs in at L22 and it hardly ever misses. I was also going to slot it with 3 Heal SOs, but it works fine for the bots with 1, so I may use the spare slots elsewhere. And 6-slot Fearsome Stare because it's wonderful - mine is 3xFear, 2xAccuracy, 1xRecharge and against orange/red minions/lieuts its back up before the fear wears off.
I just got Stamina at 35 and it's not really necessary, but there wasn't anything else I needed - it mainly helps me when buffing/summoning at the start of missions (I don't have to Rest anymore mid-buffing). But apart from travel and Leaderships buffs there isnt much you'll need from the power pools that you wont already have from /Dark.
My final recommendation is to take Recall Friend before L26 (easy for me as I took Teleport as my travel power), because all of the bots tend to get stuck on railings, furniture and each other from time to time - the L26 Assault Bot is particularly bad (always seems to get stuck after using tube lifts in Longbow bases). With Recall Friend you can un-stick bots without having to dismiss/re-summon/re-buff them. I also suspect it will be useful for repositioning the L38 /Dark pet, seeing as we dont have direct control over it.
Have fun!
Im having fun, just logged off for downtime.
thanks for your comments now all i need is some bind goodness
Valkhurst offers some sound advice there the only point i would raise is for a */dark mm i find stamina a godsend.
Your always active as a /dark MM with you secondaries spamming TG not only for your bots but team mates too..chucking down tarpits..petrifying gaze.....and if you go into the leadership pool i find without stamina running assault, tacticts, shadowfall and darkest night with everything else you fire off can take its toll on your end....and if you take burst and use while nothing else is 'up' (can be counterd by carrying CAB's mind). Especially if its a long fight and maybee you've lost a bot or 2 (they do smetimes run off) replacing and upgrading them mid fight will not kill your end.
Definatly agree on teleport/recall friend
Also recomend medicine pool and aid other.....3heals and 2interupt thingies works wonders. again though another end drainer and its up quite often.
Means i'm currently not taking fearsome stair, black hole at the mo. but variety is the spice and all that
Hell as a bot/dark MM i think i do more button bashing than my claws/regen scrapper. (just wish i could squeaze hasen in for the setup 
)
Anyhoo Great fun......just master controlling you pets with commands and you'll fell invincable.....until you get your [censored] handed to you by a load of AOE mobs with knockback
[ QUOTE ]
thanks for your comments now all i need is some bind goodness
[/ QUOTE ]
Bind Goodness you say?
Found these ages ago on the US boards. I use them on my MM and find them very useful
Edit: Opps, wrong page. i'll find the right one 
Edit Number 2: thats the one... much better
[ QUOTE ]
Valkhurst offers some sound advice there the only point i would raise is for a */dark mm i find stamina a godsend.
Your always active as a /dark MM with you secondaries spamming TG not only for your bots but team mates too..chucking down tarpits..petrifying gaze.....and if you go into the leadership pool i find without stamina running assault, tacticts, shadowfall and darkest night with everything else you fire off can take its toll on your end....and if you take burst and use while nothing else is 'up' (can be counterd by carrying CAB's mind). Especially if its a long fight and maybee you've lost a bot or 2 (they do smetimes run off) replacing and upgrading them mid fight will not kill your end.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't run Tactics (my bots have 2 Acc SOs), rarely need to re-summon bots after the start of a mission, and most of my teaming is with friends who don't need me to play healer much (though I did for a brute friend the other day and got 1-shotted by Infernals cone attack, hehe), so Ive never really had End problems in combat. On a long mission I might have Rested once or twice before, so I could probably have skipped Stamina, but I guess its quite handy now for teleporting across Nerva - I can arrive at mission doors with full End!
I've had much less debuffing (and less button bashing!) to do past L20 (Fearsome Stare) and again past L32 (2nd upgrade) - everything dies so fast - so that has cut down my End use. I only tend to use Darkest Night on boss/EB/AV/Hero mobs, and because of Fearsome Stare I only tend to use Tar Patch for its -res debuff on those same "tough" targets - in fact I only use Tar Patch for its slow effect against fear-immune targets like Rikti drones, Council Mechmen, etc.
So its weird but End hasnt really been a major issue for me, certainly not compared to my Brutes/Stalker. Maybe its because I rarely do big teams anymore (I just find I get too much incidental debt - actually my MMs first death(s) were in his first ever full pick-up team at L18) - I much prefer smaller teams with a few friends where everything is much more controlled/efficient - my MM doesnt have the HP to survive the chaos of a full pick-up group
So I guess it depends on playstyle and circumstance as to whether you need Stamina. Guess that's true of all ATs, but I'd find my Brutes painful to play without it
[ QUOTE ]
Hell as a bot/dark MM i think i do more button bashing than my claws/regen scrapper. (just wish i could squeaze hasen in for the setup )
[/ QUOTE ]
Hehe I find MM about the most relaxing and least busy AT Ive played for lack of button bashing, certainly compared to my Brutes, Scrapper and Stalker. Debuff-wise Im about as busy as my Corruptor, but I only have one blast - also pet command is fairly sorted now after 35 levels, so while I micro-manage them as a group (they're never in Aggressive stance) I hardly ever do individually, so it doesn't involve too many buttons.
I thought about Hasten, but we shouldn't need it after the I7 reduction in the recharge timers of the Upgrade buffs - I hope
[ QUOTE ]
Anyhoo Great fun......just master controlling you pets with commands and you'll fell invincable.....until you get your [censored] handed to you by a load of AOE mobs with knockback
[/ QUOTE ]
Hehe yeah - I fear fire-based mobs, and I mean that both literally and emotionally I fear/hold and kill flamethrower mobs first, then those with grenades/knockback. 99% of the time when I lose a bot its due to massed Longbow flamethrowers, especially when they stack those Ignite patches (I make sure I move the bots asap, heh). The other 1% is when a drone gets one-shotted by a Tsoo Ancestor, Carnie Strongman or an EB/AV/Hero - still, better a drone than me!
As for keybinds I made up my own, all next to the WASD for fast easy access (Aggressive/Defensive/Passive on C V B, and the orders Stay, Goto, Follow on T G F). One thing I picked up is that by having the Pet Attack command on the side-button of my mouse I can easily order my bots to attack my target at the same moment Im hitting the keyboard to lay in a debuff, which works well for me. I also have the Stay command mapped to the other side-button, so if my pets get suicidal and decide to charge forward into melee or pursue a fleeing enemy I can stop them immediately before they aggro other spawns - thats saved my life (and theirs) a few times You might find it handy if you have a mouse with side buttons - on my logitech one they keybind as "button4" and "button5" (button furthest from my thumb).
Hit lvl 33 with my bots/dark and I'm thinking of getting the photon grenade power at 35, anyone know if its any good? I figure it might stack nicely with my prot bots photon grenades, hopefully enough to even be able to stun bosses (between them they *seem* to be able to stun a lt now), but I seem to recall having read that it was a rubbish power... anyone have any thoughts? Or about slotting it - am thinking 2xAcc (hate missing, especially when you *need* that guy stunned) and then either 2xrecharge or 1xrecharge, 1xdisorient (I have slots free )
[ QUOTE ]
Hit lvl 33 with my bots/dark and I'm thinking of getting the photon grenade power at 35, anyone know if its any good? I figure it might stack nicely with my prot bots photon grenades, hopefully enough to even be able to stun bosses (between them they *seem* to be able to stun a lt now), but I seem to recall having read that it was a rubbish power... anyone have any thoughts? Or about slotting it - am thinking 2xAcc (hate missing, especially when you *need* that guy stunned) and then either 2xrecharge or 1xrecharge, 1xdisorient (I have slots free )
[/ QUOTE ]
I haven't tried it - I always avoided it because I didn't want to draw too much aggro to myself (that low HP thing again, heh). If I did get it then I'd probably slot it 2xAcc, 3xDmg, 1xRchg, but then I'm a damage-addict
Oh yeah hadn't thought of the aggro it'd get me... hmmm. May have to test it out on test server then. 
[ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah hadn't thought of the aggro it'd get me... hmmm. May have to test it out on test server then.
[/ QUOTE ]
Despite popular belief, attacks are doable as a Mastermind, just not as an opening blow. Wait until the mobs are around half health and then wade in - the amount of damage you're doing is negligible compared to your henches.
This works very well with bots post-32 when they're very AoE heavy anyway.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah hadn't thought of the aggro it'd get me... hmmm. May have to test it out on test server then.
[/ QUOTE ]
Despite popular belief, attacks are doable as a Mastermind, just not as an opening blow. Wait until the mobs are around half health and then wade in - the amount of damage you're doing is negligible compared to your henches.
This works very well with bots post-32 when they're very AoE heavy anyway.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was just worried it would tip the aggro scales too far towards me. Aggro seems to be getting a bit choppy and even sometimes unpredictable for my Bot/Dark at 36 now.
Sometimes even if I do nothing and let the bots have the opening attack, I still get a few mobs shooting me or running in and melee'ing me. I can understand getting aggro when I've thrown down a Tar Patch or Fearsome Stare before, or at the exact moment, the bots attack, but not when I haven't done anything - unless the bots are passing partial aggro on to me? It's only become noticeable in the last 4 levels (I'm 36 now) so I don't know if it's something to do with the bot AEs, or whether it's just because mobs can hurt me a lot more now when I do get aggro, so it seems much worse.
Of course it depends on spawn size and make-up as to what's safe or reckless in a certain situation - I play on Ruthless 99% of the time and solo I'm fine, but duo-ing or trio-ing the larger spawns mean that leading with Fearsome Stare can cause the spawn's "woken up" alpha-strike to (almost) kill me, even if I time it so the bots attack just as the Fearsome Stare lands (need to get them locked down before they scatter into the charging melee mobs and stand-and-fire ranged mobs - if I've learned anything it's that my bots and I survive better in a controlled environment than a swirling chaos - it's part of the reason I hate large teams with my MM when I loved them as a brute, cos I just die too fast from unpredictable/undeserved aggro).
After many levels of only using Darkest Night on bosses (and above) I've started leading with it again on some full spawns, so their accuracy is debuffed enough that I can survive the alpha - but only if they're mainly melee mobs and I have room to lay a Tar Patch in front of them so they bunch up when they charge me (allowing a Fearsome Stare to be dropped after the alpha has been fired) - otherwise they just scatter out of it as the melees charge forward and the ranged stand and fight (obviously its easier with spawns made up of mainly melee or mainly ranged mobs).
Something else I do, if there's a box or corner nearby to hide behind, is cast my Fearsome Stare and Tar Patch, then get out of sight before I order the bots to attack - that works fairly well on indoor maps, the alpha usually being spread over the assault/prot bots (and they're tougher than me ).
So that's why I'm overly concerned about the aggro that Photon Grenade could give me - I already feel on the edge of getting aggro most of the time now. With increasing mob damage I just can't survive much attention. Maybe I'm playing too much like a Controller with pets, or a Blaster/Corruptor with a control set (seeing as I only allow my bots to attack what I tell them to), but it's worked fine since L20 and still kinda works now. My bots aren't so good at taking alphas, especially if there are a lot of flamethrowers or grenades in a spawn.
"Tanking" just isn't an option for me on my difficulty level until I7's "bodyguard" is in, and I'm not sure it will work for me because I always force the bots to attack my target and concentrate their firepower (remembered my Sun-Tzu Art of War ) otherwise fights just take longer and don't work out so well.
Hmmmm. I'm the same, I almost always have all my bots together firing at one target at a time rather than willy nilly, and I've also noticed I seem to attract aggro from other mobs whether I've done anything or not. Still, I seem to remember reading something about unconfirmed reports of a taunt aspect to the hench's attacks now (anyone now if this has been confirmed one way or the other yet?), if so it might get better in i7, and certainly easier to handle with Bodyguard.
I'm actually finding that I'm using much less controls at the moment - I've gone off petrifying gaze and now use just fearsome stare most of the time with an occasional tar patch, so I think if I take the renade it might up my control and damage output, provided (like Zaprobo said) I use it sensibly, ie. after my bots have taken the alpha and grabbed all the aggro. *Shrug* Definitely gonna have to test it out when I hits 35 I guess.
[ QUOTE ]
Hmmmm. I'm the same, I almost always have all my bots together firing at one target at a time rather than willy nilly, and I've also noticed I seem to attract aggro from other mobs whether I've done anything or not. Still, I seem to remember reading something about unconfirmed reports of a taunt aspect to the hench's attacks now (anyone now if this has been confirmed one way or the other yet?), if so it might get better in i7, and certainly easier to handle with Bodyguard.
I'm actually finding that I'm using much less controls at the moment - I've gone off petrifying gaze and now use just fearsome stare most of the time with an occasional tar patch, so I think if I take the renade it might up my control and damage output, provided (like Zaprobo said) I use it sensibly, ie. after my bots have taken the alpha and grabbed all the aggro. *Shrug* Definitely gonna have to test it out when I hits 35 I guess.
[/ QUOTE ]
I really like Petrifying Gaze and use it a lot - I tend to drop it on anything that manages to avoid the Fearsome Stare, and if that works on everything then I'll lock down a flamethrower, grenadier or lieutenant, just so they don't get the chance to fire back (even at the greatly reduced attack rate forced on them by fearsome stare).
Something I found that worked well on tough spawns last night was Fearsome Stare, then drop a Tar Patch and Darkest Night (neither of which break the fear's mezz effect), then lock down the most dangerous mob with Petrifying Gaze, then order the bots to attack. I can't see myself being that over-cautious with most spawns, but if you happen to be facing a spawn that's heavy with lots of flamethrowers and grenadiers then it's worthwhile.
Fire damage is the only thing I fear really - a few flamethrower units dropping Ignite patches on your bots is going to kill some before you can move them, no matter how good your reactions are, especially on those Oranbegan CoT maps where bot control goes all to heck (poor pathing, bots attracted to crystals, portals, etc.).
I had a nightmare against Infernal last night solo on one of those maps (he was a purple con EB). Infernal and his demons were nuking for silly amounts of fire damage (one of his nukes took me down to under 50HP from full health), my bots kept being attracted to the red damage/pain crystal in the same room (ignoring my stay/follow commands), and Infernal's silly health regen and the fact he has tons of HP cos he's a Tanker made it very difficult - hardest thing I've faced in 36 levels (I'm not expecting Baphomet to be much fun either, though). Even Twilight Grasp couldn't keep my bots alive and I was lucky not to die myself at certain stages. I went through 4 sets of bots to kill him (had to run away after the 2nd set, cos my summons were in recharge). Fun challenge though, despite the pet control frustrations - boy was I glad when he finally died
bots dark is a great build i can solo just about anything and would only need one or two more people for AV's or hero mobs, post lvl 32 the bots really start to shine with the great aoe attacks i can take out large groups easy even lvl42's. Along with the dark servent that heals every now and again the repair power which is handy if a bot happens to be out of range of my protector bots( or if they've just used it) or any of my other heals. with bots/dark you can have up to five heals for the bots and two for yourself and team mates, so its quite hard to die unless u dont know what your doing. Tar patch is great, i usually get my bots to attack first then right away i hit them with the tar patch, works a treat. The mobs are dead long before the tarpatch ends so i can run ahead and get a single bot to aggro some more mobs then run back and gank them when they run into the tar....sweet.
I've never actually used fearsome or petrify much...i spec'ed them out and went for other powers.. one thing i will say i.. dont bother with black hole... its good for killing an AV or such if your soloing and u need a rest but other than that ive found no use for it other than that.its also rubbish in pvp it rarely hits and theres no real point unless the person owning everyone,soon as i7 comes out im gettin rid of it.
Personal attacks..hmmm i found them useful in the early lvls when i didnt have many bots but i soon spec'd them out my brawl will do fine until i get my parton powers tho they'll probaby be used for pvp if anything....webgrenade ownage!?!?!?!111!? the proton power aint so bad but i think the protector bots do a good job on their own. I've basicly kept the same build since beta and it hasnt failed me yet in pve anyway.as for pvp.. i dunno... need to do some major testing to see what works best.
i also found combat jumping handy with the defence against certain powers..(cant remember which) and the extra defence incas i start getting smacked, manouvers is also grand for the extra bot defence and players around you.
stam is good if you use endurance hungry powers, ive yet to run out unless im in along pvp battle.
My build might not be for everyone but it serves me well i hardly die and have never had much debt unless its been in a pvp zone
question: is there any point in keeping tactics if my bots or other powers have two or even three acc SO's? or should i keep it so i can see those nasty hidden hero's in pvp?
Well my main problem with Pet. Gaze is that (atm at least) I can't stack it, it just doesn't last long enough. How many recharges/hold duration's do you have in it to get it to stack?
I've kept it anyway on all the different versions of the build I'm thinking about, but I just don't use it much atm. *shrug*
[ QUOTE ]
Well my main problem with Pet. Gaze is that (atm at least) I can't stack it, it just doesn't last long enough. How many recharges/hold duration's do you have in it to get it to stack?
[/ QUOTE ]I'm not sure you can get it to stack well alone, but I'm necro/dark, so much holds from henches and pet, plus I'll get another hold from PPP
[ QUOTE ]
Well my main problem with Pet. Gaze is that (atm at least) I can't stack it, it just doesn't last long enough. How many recharges/hold duration's do you have in it to get it to stack?
[/ QUOTE ]
Mine is slotted 2xAcc, 2xHoldDur, 1xRchg - I'm probably going to put in another Recharge or Hold SO at 39. Because I play on Ruthless I can't stack it on the red/purple bosses in my missions, but I might be able to now I'm L38 if my Dark Servant is up (correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like it uses petrifying gaze as well). Also, like MaX says, we can get another Hold power from PPPs.
I can stack it on lower con bosses and lieuts/minions/snipers no problem (perma if orange con and below). It's great for locking down particularly dangerous mobs or anything that:
- can stack area fire damage: i.e. Longbow Flamethrowers, Crey Plasma Scientists, Carnie Seneschals, etc.
- can scatter the bots: i.e. Longbow Nullifiers & Spec Ops (grenades), Tsoo Sorcerers (hurricane)
- can one-hit or really hurt a bot in melee: i.e. Tsoo Ancients, Carnie Strongmen, Arachnos Fire Tarantulas
- can do nasty ranged damage: i.e. Nemesis Snipers,
- can use nasty status effects on me: i.e. DE Fungi (AE sleep), Lost Anathema/Eremites (sleep/hold), CoT Earth Thorns (quicksand), Arachnos Night Widows (smoke)
- is immune to fear (Fearsome Stare): i.e. Arachnos/Rikti/Council drones, all Nemesis, Council Mechmen, Jumpbots
- summons aid: i.e. Sky Raider engineers, Rikti comm officers, etc.
- can teleport (annoying!): i.e. Sky Raider Porters, Tsoo Sorcerers, armoured Rikti
- has a nasty -acc debuff aura: i.e. Tsoo Sorcerers, some CoT Nerva Spectrals
- is trying to run away
- is hassling/threatening me while my bots are busy firing at another target (like when an elite boss has a minion/lieut with it)
See, lots of uses. Did I mention it's really handy against Tsoo Sorcerers? You can't always rely on Fearsome Stare or the Bot's photon grenades to fear/disorient a dangerous foe amidst a spawn, so Petrifying Gaze comes in very handy (and if there are multiple threats then I've got Howling Twilight as well).
Rolled my 1st bad guys last night and had a lot of fun with him, just need a few pointers.
Do i really need any of my attacks, im thinking of just concentrating on my bots powers?
I havent used dark before, is it compatable with the robo MM?
my MM is going to be PvE at least till mid 30s.