[ QUOTE ]
Well, on top of my regular job, I work as the creative director for a local theatre company, and write scripts that mean I...y'know...get to eat real food, as opposed to live on sandwiches. Does that count?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, it does. It also, however, makes me a little confused. You work in theatre, you write scripts. Have you never read or written a script with prominent, developed, female characters, who suffer from the sort of discimination you wish to portray?
[ QUOTE ]
Write what I know. Well, that's kind of the point. You see, I don't actually know what it's like to be a woman. Funny, that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Neither do the majority of successful writers in the world, but they can still write women well. With the experience you've told me you have, which I couldn't have known, even looking at your forum profile, you should have a wealth of material to use as inspiration for how women are portrayed in fiction.
[ QUOTE ]
However, continuously asking me the same question over and over again does nothing but leave me frustrated, and try to find different ways of saying it. Maybe it isn't that I've phrased it poorly, but that you just don't grasp what it is I'm looking for
[/ QUOTE ]
Perhaps I don't. But I'm not the only person who has been unclear as to what you're looking for from your questions. On the one hand, you're asking how to portray a woman. Given your background, you probably have better research material to work with than most of us could provide. On the other hand, you ask how players feel about in-game flirting. I don't personally see how that relates to writing fiction. Fiction and roleplaying are very different things, and shouldn't be treated as the same. Your questions have gone back and forth frequently, and I'm sorry for being unable to determine what exactly you expect of us.
[ QUOTE ]
See, that's just it. She isn't more attractive just to be attractive. It's a by-product, a symbol of the fact she's been, for wont of a better phrase, "reborn" as a superhero...
[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, excellent, that works really well. There's more, themaically, to her change in appearance than what you initially presented, which was, in all fairness, that she used to be rather plain, and is now really attractive, and will get hit on more. The only thing we have to tell us what you mean and intend with the story, is what you tell us. If you tell us you want help with sexual discrimination, and then drop the reconstructive surgery element with no other reference to its role in the story, we can't possibly realise why you're putting it in there.
[ QUOTE ]
I apologise for not phrasing my questions in the exact, precise way you like, Word. From now on, I'll be sure to not ask anything.
[/ QUOTE ]
I apologise for offending you, but the majority of responses to what I've said have been "thanks, but that's not what I'm looking for." It does get frustrating. I'm sorry for my comments.
Edit: And yes, as ShadowGhost says, don't stop asking questions because of me.
...No, Word, I'm sorry. Although it's an age old excuse, when I wrote that, I'd had a long day and was pretty drunk. I was writing just what was coming off the top of my head. I do appreciate the help you're trying to give me. It's funny, when I'm writing scripts, I've got absolutely no problem getting across the points of my characters - yet I, myself, have a massive problem getting my own points across.
[ QUOTE ]
If you tell us you want help with sexual discrimination, and then drop the reconstructive surgery element with no other reference to its role in the story, we can't possibly realise why you're putting it in there.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, it's role in the story is just, as I mentioned, part of her "rebirth". It's just one of the many things that Sarriss, the character, will have to get used to, but once she does, it isn't coming up again. The main drive for her character is revenge against the guy who caused her accident which gave her superpowers, and leaded to the reconstructive surgery, because he took her life away from her. Revenge isn't something I'm particularly familiar with, no matter what the character's background, gender, etc, so there's that aspect to it as well.
More than anything else, I want to write a female character who's strong, independant, but never loses her femininity, or her humanity. In her previous life, as I think I mentioned before, she was Anti-Hero, yet now her whole life is the complete opposite. As opposed to being a hardworking person who fights crime, yet gets little recognition, she's now a picture perfect Superhero who, at the stage of the story I'm currently at, has yet to fight a single crime, but gets worshipped, simply because she's a Hero; in short, she's become everything she's despised in the past.
Apology accepted 
Interesting stuff about your character there. I think you could do a lot of good stuff with some juxtaposition between how she protrays herself to the public, and how she feels internally. Perhaps like, having her act the part of the hero in public, and when she gets home she collapses into tears over the loss of who she was. Maybe she had a boyfriend or lover before the incident, who is now threatened by her powers, feeling less a man when around her, and leaves her? She could struggle with the loss of what she views as her own femininity, and learn through the course of the story that she can still be feminine and strong at the same time.
That's a great idea. Okay, there werea few in there, but they're all good.
I might not end up using them...well, I probably won't, since you came up with them, and I try not to use other people's ideas, but I think I'm getting on the right track, now. Thanks!
[ QUOTE ]
I want to write a female character who's strong, independant, but never loses her femininity, or her humanity
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, now this I can help you with, for it was my first character at GG, and still a big part of my RP life. (Just check out the Creative forum!)
Zortel, Zorielle Marianna Rolando. 30 years old, mother, partner, buisness woman, heroine. She's strong, she fought in the Rikti War against incredible odds and survived. She's smart, she's a renowned scientist and buisnesswoman. She deals with, and in return is usually dealt with as an equal.
Interesting point there, several professionals tell me that the way you present yourself affects peoples opinions, the way you act and generally seem. So if your character was confident, sure of her own strength and generally a good person, people would be more inclined to treat her as such. Sure, there may be a few jerks who oggle or wolfwhistle at her as she goes down the street, but those above qualities would help her shrug it off.
Does this affect Zorielle's femininity? Perhaps. It's hard to tell with Zorielle, seeing as she's the 'man' of the relationship, though classifications for relationships don't work that well. But that aside, she is still a women, no matter her buisness dealings, mundane and heroic. She'll enjoy curling up on the sofa with her partner to watch films, taking long drives around the countryside, looking after her family and socialising. All the normal things people do. (Well... she has and watches the entire set of police academy films, so maybe not completely normal...)
As my English teacher was so keen to drill into me during the past two months studying Macbeth, false faces and apperences, layers in your characters psyche, all help. Intermingle the layers, have some layers thinner in places than others. It can all help build a well rounded, believable and enjoyable to write character.
Hope that made sense. I'm not one for coherently writing streams of thought.
Edit: Wordy bought up some good examples of the above big paragraph about layers and apperances in and out of public, that's the kind of thing I was trying to get at.
[ QUOTE ]
Not sure on that Astoreth, I know one woman who's taller, stronger and far more intimidating than me, and despite Armed Service training STILL has the usual treatment from men & women alike.
If anything, wearing Lycra would actually increase the 'sex object' role.
[/ QUOTE ]
But just how intimidating can a short, plushy weasel be?? 
Seriously, I take your point, but I was thinking of someone known to be a super would tend to be classed as a super first and a man/woman second.
hmm... put that way:
Anastasia Kade is a 6-foot, big chested, long-legged blonde who poses in various degrees of undress for cameras. She was in both the UK and US editions of Playboy a few years ago, prior to marrying her favourite photographer and retiring from the model business to have a family. Unfortunately, that family was destroyed when her husband and daughter were killed by a bomb meant for someone else and she became a hero in an attempt to get revenge on those responsible.
On the surface, she's an attractive woman who wears revealing clothes. Her hero costume is heavy on the leather and she'd probably get classed as a dominiatrix if it wasn't for the fact the leather is purple (she likes purple).
Originally, she used to keep her hero and real identity seperate because she didn't want the other heroes looking down on her for her day job. Over time, she's grown more confident, and now doesn't bother so much. Still, she wears a black wig in her hero ID to make herself look quite different.
She now has an adopted daughter, and a new lover, something she didn't think she'd ever get around to doing again. She's a lot deeper than people tend to think from the blonde exterior, and she more or less helps run the model agency she's signed with. However, as Wordy can attest, I hope, she's still very feminine, even dressed in a lot of leather and lording it about in the Pits of Hell.
But the basic idea behind the character was to make a superhero who happens to be a glamour model and see where it went from there. (Actually, it was after the introduction of the scaling system and I wanted to see how silly you could make a female toon on test. Max chest, max legs... and then I decided I quite liked her... and I needed a temp toon while my main was busy elsewhere... and then I got toon-napped by Z.)
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not sure on that Astoreth, I know one woman who's taller, stronger and far more intimidating than me, and despite Armed Service training STILL has the usual treatment from men & women alike.
If anything, wearing Lycra would actually increase the 'sex object' role.
[/ QUOTE ]
But just how intimidating can a short, plushy weasel be??
Seriously, I take your point, but I was thinking of someone known to be a super would tend to be classed as a super first and a man/woman second.
[/ QUOTE ]
IRL, he's a bloomin' giant! Still quite plushy though 
.
As for "Super first, woman second", might be true...we don't really know as there are no superhumans IRL. However, in a roleplaying scenario this can still count as prejudism.
For instance, Stasis is a superhuman but she can't stand being one. This doesn't mean she wants to be a villain, quite the opposite--she'd much rather be a plain old human, with all the restrictions to boot. Even though she has the ability to cut through steel and withstand most punches aimed her way, the male superhuman's still treat her as "weaker" than they are.
A male superhuman might still try to protect her, as underneath all the powers she's very naive and innocent. Take Silver Weasel for instance, his RP relationship with Stasis is that of her protector (there is that unknown requited romance scenario, but atm, they're "just friends"), despite the fact that she can hold her own, and physically, is stronger than Weasel.
She may be super, but she'd still have difficulty obtaining a high ranking job in the armed services, say. This isn't because the armed forces are prejudiced against women, but because her personality is much too weak for her to be able to take charge of a potentially fatal situation.
Some people (whether man, woman or inbetween) will always treat others with disrespect if they aren't identical to themselves. This could be due to bad personal experiences, fear, lack of understanding or any number of other reasons. The only real way anyone is able to overcome these is to be sure of themself.
If the character is confident (this doesn't mean they have to be arrogant), another character saying, "You're ugly" or "There's no way you could do this..." isn't going to bother them in the slightest. However, if the character has some self-doubt, it may be devastating.
Although, there is one female stereotype which I've found to be (mostly) true. Female/female relationships (friendships, not romantic) tend to be "closer" than male/male. A woman is more likely to tell her friends that she loves them, and yet on the other hand, if a female friend was to insult her, she'd spend days/weeks/months not talking to her. This can involve [censored] behind the friend's back, but that does depend on the person's personality.
For men, the insult is likely to be met with either a rebuff, or a fist. Occasionally the insult can be so hurtful that the man follows the same "rules" as the woman, but for the most part this is unlikely.
And one final thought: Men are not from Mars, and women are not from Venus. We may not be identical, but we're definately not vastly different. "Ladette" society has proven this.
IMHO you need to explore some of these things by writing a shorter piece (or three) than what you're planning on. Put together a couple of scenes and see how they run, maybe even get someone to read it over for you. That way you'll know if you're on the right track. And you can still use the short material in some form later on if it's any good, maybe as a flashback.
Once you have something firmly down in black and white it's easier to figure out what bits aren't any good and shred them with your claws
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not sure on that Astoreth, I know one woman who's taller, stronger and far more intimidating than me, and despite Armed Service training STILL has the usual treatment from men & women alike.
If anything, wearing Lycra would actually increase the 'sex object' role.
[/ QUOTE ]
But just how intimidating can a short, plushy weasel be??
Seriously, I take your point, but I was thinking of someone known to be a super would tend to be classed as a super first and a man/woman second.
[/ QUOTE ]
IRL, he's a bloomin' giant! Still quite plushy though .
As for "Super first, woman second", might be true...we don't really know as there are no superhumans IRL. However, in a roleplaying scenario this can still count as prejudism.
For instance, Stasis is a superhuman but she can't stand being one. This doesn't mean she wants to be a villain, quite the opposite--she'd much rather be a plain old human, with all the restrictions to boot. Even though she has the ability to cut through steel and withstand most punches aimed her way, the male superhuman's still treat her as "weaker" than they are.
A male superhuman might still try to protect her, as underneath all the powers she's very naive and innocent. Take Silver Weasel for instance, his RP relationship with Stasis is that of her protector (there is that unknown requited romance scenario, but atm, they're "just friends"), despite the fact that she can hold her own, and physically, is stronger than Weasel.
She may be super, but she'd still have difficulty obtaining a high ranking job in the armed services, say. This isn't because the armed forces are prejudiced against women, but because her personality is much too weak for her to be able to take charge of a potentially fatal situation.
Some people (whether man, woman or inbetween) will always treat others with disrespect if they aren't identical to themselves. This could be due to bad personal experiences, fear, lack of understanding or any number of other reasons. The only real way anyone is able to overcome these is to be sure of themself.
If the character is confident (this doesn't mean they have to be arrogant), another character saying, "You're ugly" or "There's no way you could do this..." isn't going to bother them in the slightest. However, if the character has some self-doubt, it may be devastating.
Although, there is one female stereotype which I've found to be (mostly) true. Female/female relationships (friendships, not romantic) tend to be "closer" than male/male. A woman is more likely to tell her friends that she loves them, and yet on the other hand, if a female friend was to insult her, she'd spend days/weeks/months not talking to her. This can involve [censored] behind the friend's back, but that does depend on the person's personality.
For men, the insult is likely to be met with either a rebuff, or a fist. Occasionally the insult can be so hurtful that the man follows the same "rules" as the woman, but for the most part this is unlikely.
And one final thought: Men are not from Mars, and women are not from Venus. We may not be identical, but we're definately not vastly different. "Ladette" society has proven this.
[/ QUOTE ]
I must admit I hadn't thought about that aspect - I was thinking aout the reaction of 'normals' to a super.
However you raise a very good point, which is that with a large population of supers there would be the sort of male/female issues we see in RL.
This often leads to similar problems classed as racism/sexism etc. where the different person finds a glass ceiling which they can't get past.
(And remember, a glass ceiling tends to stop the excrement from getting any lower )
Often this is more due to the fact that a level of communication cannot be established with a 'different' person; despite them being superior to the chosen candidate.
Of course, when women DO acheive power (Whether it is Super/Money or Influence), Men are attracted to her; but left inadequate beside her, which drains their ego; thus preventing communication. In addition, the close female relationship cannot be established easily between the classes; which is why you'll tend to see all the starlets tearing each other to shreds in "Hello!" etc. (See Britney Spears, Angelina Jolie)
For story purposes, if your female character was to do the old "Ugly Duckling" routine, she might suddenly find herself equally untouchable, due to the fact that the only men who would have the confidence to approach her would often be those who want to steal her beauty for themselves as an icon; and with the level of shallow adoration that would surround her, it's likely she'd be far more lonely than the solitary girl she once was : See Marilyn Monroe.
[ QUOTE ]
And remember, a glass ceiling tends to stop the excrement from getting any lower
[/ QUOTE ]
Not in any company I've ever been in. 
It just means the smell they've caused can't get back up.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
I'm a male player, yet I hyave had very few male toons in Role Playing. This is mainly because I'm not really that good at making designs for men coming from the creation tool that I like, plus I've actually found them harder to play their role for some reason, maybe because they seem less aproachable to me, I'm not sure.
Still, all of my female characters were never mean't to be steriotypes of women and are all their own characters, though each, primarily Tigergirl, has some personality trates or beliefs that I take from my own. I don't know if I'm playing women good or bad by how other people see and I hardly care, I only care that I'm keeping the characters as who they are.
Tigergirl/Yoko Hatori - Full time hero
Kiyarii Kade - Model and part time hero
Mileena Lim - Alien Demon Bat Sorceress or rather Hotel property owner
Starborn/Klair Elwin - Full time hero and Journalist
Locked at the request of the original poster.
Not sure on that Astoreth, I know one woman who's taller, stronger and far more intimidating than me, and despite Armed Service training STILL has the usual treatment from men & women alike.
If anything, wearing Lycra would actually increase the 'sex object' role.