Spines/SR help pls


Cybercel

 

Posted

I love the look of Spines, but is the SR set a good set to go with? heres my planned build

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Exported from Ver: 1.7.5.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
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Name: Name ?
Level: 41
Archetype: Stalker
Primary: Spines
Secondary: Super Reflexes
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01) --> Lunge==> Acc(1)
01) --> Hide==> DefBuf(1)DefBuf(3)DefBuf(3)EndRdx(11)
02) --> Focused Fighting==> DefBuf(2)DefBuf(5)DefBuf(5)EndRdx(11)
04) --> Focused Senses==> DefBuf(4)DefBuf(9)DefBuf(9)EndRdx(13)
06) --> Assassin's Impaler==> Dmg(6)Dmg(7)Dmg(7)Acc(13)Acc(15)Acc(15)
08) --> Build Up==> Rechg(8)Rechg(19)Rechg(19)TH_Buf(37)TH_Buf(37)TH_Buf(37)
10) --> Hurdle==> Jump(10)
12) --> Combat Jumping==> Jump(12)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Practiced Brawler==> Rechg(16)Rechg(17)Rechg(17)
18) --> Health==> Heal(18)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20)EndMod(21)EndMod(21)
22) --> Impale==> Acc(22)Acc(23)Dmg(23)Dmg(29)Dmg(31)Immob(33)
24) --> Placate==> Rechg(24)Rechg(25)Rechg(25)
26) --> Ripper==> Acc(26)Acc(27)Dmg(27)Dmg(29)Dmg(31)Rechg(31)
28) --> Quickness==> Run(28)
30) --> Stealth==> EndRdx(30)EndRdx(40)
32) --> Throw Spines==> Acc(32)Acc(33)Dmg(33)Dmg(34)Dmg(34)Rechg(34)
35) --> Evasion==> DefBuf(35)DefBuf(36)DefBuf(36)EndRdx(36)
38) --> Elude==> DefBuf(38)DefBuf(39)DefBuf(39)Rechg(39)Rechg(40)Rechg(40)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
01) --> Assassination==> Empty(1)
---------------------------------------------


Can i get some feed back on this please, id like to carry on with this for a PvP purpose as well as a nice little PvE build too


 

Posted

Looks like a pretty nice build to me.

I wouldnt change much but the things I would change are:

Only 2 recharge in practised brawler (it dont need 3). I would probably take out 2 of the to hit buffs in build up. With the 3 slots you have saved I would now put an extra 1 in sprint and an increase jump in super jump. Could possibly put one in combat jumping as well.


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Villains
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My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/

LF SG! Arc ID# 193083

 

Posted

This build really is pure hit-and-run at lower levels (only attacks are the Assassin's Impaler plus unslotted Lunge & Brawl), which could make it tough to level up in PvE unless you have understanding team-mates. Before Impale (which you're taking 4 levels too late, imho) it's going to be a struggle to kill anything in PvE & PvP (L15 Bloody Bay) that the Assassin's Impaler doesn't one-shot - and with being so assassinate-dependant I think you're taking Placate very late too.

Personally I'd delay fitness pool (even with toggles you won't burn End too badly with just the Assassin's Impaler and Lunge) and instead take Placate at 12 (CJ at 10) and Impale at 18 - that would delay Hurdle/Health/Stamina until L20-L24. You may also want to consider a) slotting up Lunge for the lower levels and respeccing out of it later, and b) slotting a recharge SO in Impale instead of an immobilise duration, as you'll rely on it so much for finishing off the things you assassinate in PvE and Siren's Call PvP (and maybe later too, as I hear cone attacks - like Ripper and Throw Spines - are unreliable at hitting in PvP).

Apart from that the only other problem I see is that if you want to PvP a lot in Siren's Call (L25), which seems the busiest PvP zone atm, then you might want to fit in Stealth a bit earlier (i.e. at L20-24, which would delay Stamina again if you took my previous advice).

Admittedly I don't play Spines/SR (I'm EM/EA) so I'm just advising on things that "look" problematic - you may have different tactics in mind.

[ QUOTE ]
Only 2 recharge in practised brawler (it dont need 3). I would probably take out 2 of the to hit buffs in build up. With the 3 slots you have saved I would now put an extra 1 in sprint and an increase jump in super jump. Could possibly put one in combat jumping as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
If jump speed is important then instead of Sprint/SJ I'd put those 2 slots into Hurdle - you get a much better unsuppressed jump speed with CJ and still hit the jump cap with SJ too. That said I have a feeling the OP really wants the ToHit buffs in Build Up to make sure he can hit/assassinate heroes with especially good defences (due to purples, toggles, being acc-debuffed or whatever), hence the 3 acc SOs in AS too.

Your point about Practiced Brawler was well made though - 2 recharges make it perma, providing you don't get -recharge debuffed (may be the reason the OP wants the extra one in there, just in case) - the slot from that could go into Hurdle.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
This build really is pure hit-and-run at lower levels (only attacks are the Assassin's Impaler plus unslotted Lunge & Brawl), which could make it tough to level up in PvE unless you have understanding team-mates. Before Impale (which you're taking 4 levels too late, imho) it's going to be a struggle to kill anything in PvE & PvP (L15 Bloody Bay) that the Assassin's Impaler doesn't one-shot - and with being so assassinate-dependant I think you're taking Placate very late too.

Personally I'd delay fitness pool (even with toggles you won't burn End too badly with just the Assassin's Impaler and Lunge) and instead take Placate at 12 (CJ at 10) and Impale at 18 - that would delay Hurdle/Health/Stamina until L20-L24. You may also want to consider a) slotting up Lunge for the lower levels and respeccing out of it later, and b) slotting a recharge SO in Impale instead of an immobilise duration, as you'll rely on it so much for finishing off the things you assassinate in PvE and Siren's Call PvP (and maybe later too, as I hear cone attacks - like Ripper and Throw Spines - are unreliable at hitting in PvP).

Apart from that the only other problem I see is that if you want to PvP a lot in Siren's Call (L25), which seems the busiest PvP zone atm, then you might want to fit in Stealth a bit earlier (i.e. at L20-24, which would delay Stamina again if you took my previous advice).

Admittedly I don't play Spines/SR (I'm EM/EA) so I'm just advising on things that "look" problematic - you may have different tactics in mind.

[ QUOTE ]
Only 2 recharge in practised brawler (it dont need 3). I would probably take out 2 of the to hit buffs in build up. With the 3 slots you have saved I would now put an extra 1 in sprint and an increase jump in super jump. Could possibly put one in combat jumping as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
If jump speed is important then instead of Sprint/SJ I'd put those 2 slots into Hurdle - you get a much better unsuppressed jump speed with CJ and still hit the jump cap with SJ too. That said I have a feeling the OP really wants the ToHit buffs in Build Up to make sure he can hit/assassinate heroes with especially good defences (due to purples, toggles, being acc-debuffed or whatever), hence the 3 acc SOs in AS too.

Your point about Practiced Brawler was well made though - 2 recharges make it perma, providing you don't get -recharge debuffed (may be the reason the OP wants the extra one in there, just in case) - the slot from that could go into Hurdle.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree alot with what you said. To be honest I didnt really look at what levels he took things (naughty). Just made sure he had the right things and nothing silly.

Your build will depend on when you fancy PvPing as well. The longer you leave it the more powerful and effective you will be due to more powers and slots.

How you play your stalker will also have an affect. I am very much a stalker as in wait for the right moment and then attack. However, I can stand my ground (somewhat) in melee fights. I can understand wanting to have hit buffs but can honestly say I have done fine without them. Normally you are attacking an unsuspecting target so they shouldnt have used any purple insp etc. I find I hit SR scrappers fine with just build up. I think using the saved slots would be more beneficial as you can always use accuracy inspections if you are that worried about missing. Being able to move (jump) fast I find is alot more important.

I often activate practised brawler just before I go into battle (unless lots of controllers about) which means I dont have to worry about it running out. You tend to find you will have killed your target way before it runs out. Battles dont tend to last that long. If you die theres a slight delay before you can reactive it but its nothing major - a good stalker doesnt die often


Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker

Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.

My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/

LF SG! Arc ID# 193083

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Personally I'd delay fitness pool (even with toggles you won't burn End too badly with just the Assassin's Impaler and Lunge) and instead take Placate at 12 (CJ at 10) and Impale at 18 - that would delay Hurdle/Health/Stamina until L20-L24.

[/ QUOTE ]

Woah woah woah, bad idea with Super Reflexes. I'm assuming you've never played SR, as it burns through endurance like hell, even with only one toggle on. You're gonna need two end-reducers on each toggle mate.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Personally I'd delay fitness pool (even with toggles you won't burn End too badly with just the Assassin's Impaler and Lunge) and instead take Placate at 12 (CJ at 10) and Impale at 18 - that would delay Hurdle/Health/Stamina until L20-L24.

[/ QUOTE ]

Woah woah woah, bad idea with Super Reflexes. I'm assuming you've never played SR, as it burns through endurance like hell, even with only one toggle on. You're gonna need two end-reducers on each toggle mate.

[/ QUOTE ]

It does burn through endurance but it is managable. I just tend to have to rest alot.


Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker

Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.

My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/

LF SG! Arc ID# 193083

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Your build will depend on when you fancy PvPing as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
The OP said the build was mainly for PvP, so I based my feedback on that.

[ QUOTE ]
I often activate practised brawler just before I go into battle

[/ QUOTE ]
That's fine if you're completely sure you're not going to need it (much of the time in PvE), but in PvP it's a bit late to wish you had it active when you're under a status effect /shrug. Guess it depends how many Break Frees you want to carry - personally I’d rather carry a few blues and have my status protection on all the time.

[ QUOTE ]
Woah woah woah, bad idea with Super Reflexes. I'm assuming you've never played SR, as it burns through endurance like hell, even with only one toggle on.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've tinkered around with SR on a stalker and scrapper past the first couple of toggles, but only up to L10 - on paper and in reality SR is not as bad as Dark Armour (as tons of scrappers on the US forums agree) - SR actually has less toggles than a fully shielded /EA stalker/brute up to the mid levels, because SR’s status protection is a buff not a toggle - so it's manageable.

I appreciate you have 50 levels of SR experience, but a stalker plays a lot differently - the OP’s obvious desire for a hit-and-run build should preclude any End problems your SR Scrapper might have run into - Stalking is more forgiving on Endurance than the continuous scrapping of brutes/scrappers. While running to let Hide refresh there is ample opportunity to recover End from the “hit”. The OP’s stalker build doesn’t even have a full attack chain until later (Lunge, Impale plus Ripper/ThrowSpines at L26/32) and hasn't slotted Lunge so this is certainly not a scrapping-capable build for most of its lifespan (the main reason a lot of Stalkers take SR). Pre-Impale I really can’t see the OP scrapping much with unslotted Brawl and Lunge, can you?

I can’t see the OP suffering bad End problems - delaying Stamina a few levels is going to hurt what, exactly? Maybe if he runs Stealth as well as both early armour toggles and Hide he’ll feel it, but he won’t be running Stealth in PvE, and in PvP he’ll struggle without it - every hero with a perception buff (Tactics, Clear Mind, etc - surprisingly common) would see right through his Hide before he could assassinate. And taking both Stealth and Stamina by L24 would need other sacrifices. Taking Stealth later than L24 means the OP wouldn’t have it in Siren’s Call (and Warburg is pretty empty when I’ve been there - SC seems busiest for PvP).

Pre-SOs/Stamina you can always practice intelligent toggle management to save End - an SR stalker could turn off Focused Senses once his enemies are in melee with him (he doesn’t have to worry about being shot while approaching either, like an SR Scrapper would) - but I doubt the OP will need to. Heck you can play Stalkers & Brutes without armour toggles for the first 10-15ish levels without noticing much difference (I did with my /EA stalker, and my /DA brute at times). For most armour sets it takes SOs to make a noticeable difference to survivability (and for SR probably the stacked up passives too).

Even the extra SR toggle, the AE defence Evasion at L35, is situational in PvE so need not be on most of the time - but the OP will have Stamina by then.

[ QUOTE ]
You're gonna need two end-reducers on each toggle mate.

[/ QUOTE ]
Imho two End Reducer SOs is a waste - according to most planner/builder/stat-progs just one End reducer in Focused Fighting/Senses would only save 0.06 End-per-second - that’s tiny - after 86.6 seconds of fighting you’d only have saved enough End for an extra Lunge - whereas if you stuck that EndRed into Lunge itself you’d save 1.3 End on the cost of the attack and you’d be able to use 4 Lunges for the usual cost of 3 (saving 0.23 End/sec if you just chained Lunges over their 4sec recharge and 1.63sec anim time). Much better End-efficiency in combat, I think you’ll agree.

Personally I only put End Reducers into toggles that cost more than 0.3 End/sec, for a noticeable saving - most defence/armour toggles cost 0.19 or 0.24 End/sec so it’s only offensive (damage auras, repels, toggle-debuffs) and power pool toggles (Tough, Leadership & Concealment pools) that are worth EndRed slots imho. Slotting EndReds into attacks saves you far more End in combat (the only place you’re really burning lots of End). My Fire/Fire brute was a nightmare to balance End usage on, until I realised EndRed SOs in attacks saved much much more End/sec than putting them in cheap toggles - now he can run 6 toggles permanently and do a whole mission solo without stopping.

But none of that is relevant because the OP isn’t going to have End problems, because the build isn’t set up for scrapping. I just hope the OP is going to team in PvE, because hit-and-run can be painfully slow solo.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]

I often activate practised brawler just before I go into battle


That's fine if you're completely sure you're not going to need it (much of the time in PvE), but in PvP it's a bit late to wish you had it active when you're under a status effect /shrug. Guess it depends how many Break Frees you want to carry - personally I’d rather carry a few blues and have my status protection on all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

You missed this bit off my quote "unless lots of controllers about". Having stealth and hide means I am normally hidden and dont have to worry about being hit or held.


Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker

Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.

My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/

LF SG! Arc ID# 193083

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I often activate practised brawler just before I go into battle


That's fine if you're completely sure you're not going to need it (much of the time in PvE), but in PvP it's a bit late to wish you had it active when you're under a status effect /shrug. Guess it depends how many Break Frees you want to carry - personally I’d rather carry a few blues and have my status protection on all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

You missed this bit off my quote "unless lots of controllers about". Having stealth and hide means I am normally hidden and dont have to worry about being hit or held.

[/ QUOTE ]
No I saw that - I guess I'm just paranoid about stalker-hunting teams of heroes with stacked perception buffs (e.g. Tactics & Clear Mind)


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Taking Stealth later than L24 means the OP wouldn’t have it in Siren’s Call (and Warburg is pretty empty when I’ve been there - SC seems busiest for PvP).

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The cutoff for Siren's is level 30, not 24 or 25. Bloody Bay's cutoff is 25.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
The cutoff for Siren's is level 30, not 24 or 25. Bloody Bay's cutoff is 25.

[/ QUOTE ]

Click me


 

Posted

I think there are crossed purposes here with a confusion over terminology - Sirens' cut off is indeed 25 and everyone in the zone is level 30.

Everyone in the zone is lifted/dropped to 30, but you have to be level 25 before you're allowed in.

So if one takes stealth at 30, you can use it in Sirens. But if you intend to start PVPing in there the minute you hit lvl 25, then you may, as Valk says, want to take it before then.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I think there are crossed purposes here with a confusion over terminology - Sirens' cut off is indeed 25 and everyone in the zone is level 30.

Everyone in the zone is lifted/dropped to 30, but you have to be level 25 before you're allowed in.

So if one takes stealth at 30, you can use it in Sirens. But if you intend to start PVPing in there the minute you hit lvl 25, then you may, as Valk says, want to take it before then.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hate to say it but thats wrong!!! I can ensure you can get in at lv 20.


Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker

Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.

My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/

LF SG! Arc ID# 193083

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think there are crossed purposes here with a confusion over terminology - Sirens' cut off is indeed 25 and everyone in the zone is level 30.

Everyone in the zone is lifted/dropped to 30, but you have to be level 25 before you're allowed in.

So if one takes stealth at 30, you can use it in Sirens. But if you intend to start PVPing in there the minute you hit lvl 25, then you may, as Valk says, want to take it before then.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hate to say it but thats wrong!!! I can ensure you can get in at lv 20.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep pretty sure Max is right. The cut offs mentioned are for what lvl you can get missions


 

Posted

ok, I got the numbers wrong (bah!) but I still think the two chaps were talking about two different things.

Stupid numbers.


 

Posted

Looks like a very good build, but its gonna be a [censored] to lvl. You cant scrap untill very late.

PvE - Sucky untill 24-26
PvP - Nasty build. Not much you cant do.


A Paragon Defender

 

Posted

Yeah thats what I sort of found. I wasn't enjoying playing my stalker early lvs but after awhile when he got abit more useful became alot more fun.

I also designed him PvE wise first and then once at the appropriate level done the respec to make him a PvP build.


Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker

Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.

My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/

LF SG! Arc ID# 193083

 

Posted

so from what ive read, im ok at carrying on this? im gonna team alot so ill basicly be AS, fall into hide AS etc, until i get placate and imaple, which is the same time is when ill start pvping, i was thinking of moving those 2 to 18 and 20 trying out a few powers 20-24 then respecing in stamina at 24 so i can at least pvp by lvl 20 a bit


 

Posted

I wouldnt start PvPing until atleast level 22. You will need Single Origins. AS (with dual enhancments) will not kill your target and you've not really got many other attacks to use which would finish them off. All that would happen is they legged it or kill you (depending on the enemy).


Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker

Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.

My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/

LF SG! Arc ID# 193083

 

Posted

Dont PvP with him till lvl30. You need stealth.


A Paragon Defender