Raids and Items of Power - Worth it?
By
Black_Jon_Bludd,
Posted on: 2006-01-31 08:00 in Base Construction
You're probably right.
We've only made instant raids for now, but the only way I see to defend correctly is to hide you anchors as well as you can and harass the attackers enough to prevent them from finding them too soon. Once they're discovered, it's only a matter of minutes before they're destroyed.
The buff from the Item of Power can be more than that! In beta it was a 1% buff for each Item of Power but Im sure I read that it will be more than that (thus making it worthwhile).
However for me, proper base raids will ultimatley depend on the chances of the base being destroyed. Everything costs a fortune and I dont think I be willing to risk it all even for a 20% buff.
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
Standard IOP will give a 1% bonus, the unique ones (2 per server) will give a 20% bonus and some funky effect (think those were the figures), funky effect could be something like provides 100,000 power.
Only thing i can add is at larger base plots it may tip in favour of the defenders due to increased numbers of turrets etc. (I stress the may part however).
Defiant
Proud Member of the Liberty Legion
Venture - Emp/En Defender
Seph - Kat/SR Scrapper
Blizzard - Ice/Storm Controller
Legionelosis - Rad/Rad Defender
Ahh, but then you'll have even more to lose, will you risk it?
I would love to do the cathedral of pain trial, but I don't want to risk the base being trashed. I wish there was a way to do the trial without fitting the IoP, but I don't believe there is.
This sounds pretty much like I expected it to be. Defenders risk everything and will lose their 'rewards' with high propability. Attackers risk nothing and reap the rewards. Yup, sounds pretty much like the way states wants things designed.
Hehe well who raids last wins 
As Hammerfall says, as bases get larger the balance of power may shift in favour of the defenders. the appearance of choke points and static defences may make a significant difference.
Personally I doubt. One of you boys will be able to keep me straight on this; don't attackers appear randomly about the base? SGs aren't going to get bigger just because the bases do so in effect, as the base grows larger so the defence gets spread more thinly.
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
Since i know bases are still under the build-up phase, this might not be correct. since I lack all that much experience in Base-raids, perhaps some1 can assist me with some thoughts on this idea:
As far as i learned u need to destroy 5 of 6 anchors, correct? What would be the possibility to defend 2 of ur anchors alone and let the attackers destroy the rest? if you are wealthy enough, u can upgrade 2 roms to 'secure' and place defenses in them, wouldnt a well-trained team be able, with the help of i.e. a sapper or 2, to defend the anchor? perhaps all that is needed is a increase on the recharge rate on the anchors?
Finally, what is the devs oppinion (or statesmans vision)? Perhaps Bridger could enlighten us with how the thought of a base-raid is supposed to be going down, or is it as always an idea that never was thouroghly worked through and stressed out to live servers to meet the angry mobs demands? 'coz they couldnt for real believe that the 2 SGs would battle eachother 1st, then go for the equipment?
All I want to know is will completion of the Trial give a nice shiny badge?
Otherwise I can go buys inps for loads cheaper, & I won't have to worry about the Echelon bar being dry because a bunch of tykes snuck in & nicked all the beer & stole the ciggies from The Echelon ciggarette machine.
anchors are so weak that even with 12 or so people defending one it can be taken out fairly easily, as we've found out in every raid. a few range attacks, or a brute or stalker slipping past the defender and bye bye anchor =(
to say nothing of skills like overload which is instant byebye anchor
Ive given it some thought and i wonder...
Would'nt it be possible to defend an anchor if you have it placed in a pure defense room? i.e. say that you have a room equipped with 6 elite chain guns, each boosted with +60% Acc and 2 turrets that -Res -Def boosted with +45% Acc... wouldnt that kill any stalker/brute using overload or elude? i fought SR-scrappers using Elude and as long as you are more than 4-5 ppl ur bound to hit enough times to kill the low-resistant scrapper. I still believe that at the present, we cant defend anchors, but we might in a close future as our bases reach above the 15 mill mark... or i might be wrong, and statesman has made a poor attempt of balancing powers..... again.....
In my expereince of defending raids, its all about persistance. you can have the most amazing defence..but.. you have 30 mins to secure important key items in the base.-we recently lost a raid with 3 mins to go, we defended well, but they attacked, attacked and kept on atacking, even if they manged to get one small ranged attack before they died it still counts. and as "being killed" means nothing in a raid then they can run in.. attack target, die.. spawn.. repeat etc untill they are all done..
TBH, what I see a fair base raid to be is this :-
Each anchour is destroyable, so, You run in.. destroy it.. then it becomes a glowie.. a 45 sec glowie that is interuptable, - this will elliminate the run in, attack ranged, die, spawn and repeat into a more tactical gameplay.. you have to destroy it, then call forces to protect while somone activates the anchor.
Also If the Power unit is destroyed then its game over (thats how we lost our raid) - I think that if these items are destroyed then sure you can loose the defences etc but not the game, as it can and will always be a target first if thats the case. and a full team of 16 people.. all gunning for the 3k health of a powerunit is not exactly secure.! regardless of defences available..
What concerns me is that hero bases are devoid of anything resembling a door. I personally would have liked to have seen some lockable rooms. The doors could be destroyable but its a vERY obvious form of defence that appears to have been overlooked.
Additionally I feel all invaders should materialise in the main hallway next to the entrance. That room should be lockable so that every battle starts with the invaders having to batter their way through a door and out into a line of defenders waiting for them.
Defending should be easier than attacking - that's how it works. Any SG in possession of an IoP should be reasonably sure of keeping it when facing an SG of comparable numbers and ability.
Again, maybe things will change as the bases get larger but I can't help do the maths. What about when a base expands to the point where it can house 5 IoPs? That's 30 anchors spread over 30 rooms and only a maximum of 75 defenders. 2.5 per room MAX, and given most SGs you're probably looking at more like 1 defender per room. How on earth do you go about defending a chunk of real estate that large with so few ppl?
I think some major fiddling with the base system will occur after base raids start becomming common.
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
So basically... to win. you just have to Zerg their base/gennie in under 30 mins, AND sttuff gets detroyed permanantly?
even i have to say this sounds seriously Broken.
*note to self, no IOP's for my SG*
Well you can allways try to raid the PDs, we dont mind rebuilding as long as we also get to kick people arround.
50s
controllers: Ill rad , grav rad, fire kin, ice kin
blaster: ice em
scrapper: spines sr
Again, maybe things will change as the bases get larger but I can't help do the maths. What about when a base expands to the point where it can house 5 IoPs? That's 30 anchors spread over 30 rooms and only a maximum of 75 defenders. 2.5 per room MAX, and given most SGs you're probably looking at more like 1 defender per room. How on earth do you go about defending a chunk of real estate that large with so few ppl?
I think some major fiddling with the base system will occur after base raids start becomming common.
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Bases raids are still limited to 16 people, therefore a huge base will only have the effect that attackers spawn in random doorway.....defenders now have huge base to search to find attackers.....attackers have to find 6 out of 30 dimensional anchors.....this should make the attackers life easier.
I had heard there was only a 'chance' that stuff that got destroyed was permenantely destroyed one of those random number calculations gets run and having a repair bot increases the chance that items are repaired.
It still looks like the item of power idea will only be something the bigger SG's can realistically house. Picking on the bigger SG's would I imagine just make them mad and lead to revenge raids.
I imagine items of power will either get snapped up by a few then moved around loads by base raids or hopefully snapped up by a few and only faught over by the groups that can afford the potential loss. Like I think has been mentioned the items of power and bases are a long term investment for players that everyone can work towards over months and years of play not blitzed in a few months and becoming too common to be desirable.
I myself would like to know the kind of figure im looking at for the chance for an item to be destroyed.
I see it as the other way around tbh. Bigger sg's have a lot more to lose. If you look at how much some of the stuff you unlock costs (turbine generator costs 1.5 mil) then you realise how hard it could hit them. Small sg's to be fair will not have no where near as much to be destroyed as a big sg.
Hopefully everyone will see it as fun but like you I do fear that base raids may lead to some angry people and supergroups. Investing in so much work only to have it destroyed right in front of you will lead to upset people (only natural).
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
as i see it, the SGs that are the most devoted to become the strongest in raids will feel its worth it. A well planned/build base and extremely trained 16ppl team can defend both the anchors and the most expensive equipment (such as Super computer and Turbine Gen) it does get frustrating that the shield u can buy for the basic Gen, wont work on the turbine, and that there is so far no shields avaible for all equipment.
The most sadistic SGs will focus on destroying expwnsive equipment, and not win the raid, this way, next week when they attack, defenders will focus on the few equipment left, and the anchors will be easy targets. This is a major issue when raids become 'for real', and i sincearly hope that the Devs will introduce a plan or improvement to deal with this. Lately we fought Order of Reckoning, and even though we Pwned them, they still trashed a few things in the base, and imo we had to open up and sacrifice them in order to maintain anchors...
Is good to see that resurecting equipment is no longer targetable. Seemed a little odd that an item meant to increase the chance of other items respawning was itself targetable. Sadly they only increase the chance by 5%
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The most sadistic SGs will focus on destroying expwnsive equipment, and not win the raid, this way, next week when they attack, defenders will focus on the few equipment left, and the anchors will be easy targets.
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I think that's the general agreement for our SG. If someone comes to our base and takes our IoP, we're going to raid them as soon as we can. No prisoners, no holds barred, no holding back. EVERYTHING that can be broken WILL be broken.
that is prolly the reason why IoP wont be passed around the SGs. Coz its hard to defend, and u can be sure that every1 is a soar looser and get back at u with a vengeance.. at the end u wont attack a base for the IoP, unless u feel confident that u can also fend of any invaders at minimum destruction cost lol
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Coz its hard to defend
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I've never had any trouble defending, actually. Part of the problem is that you have to choose a functional base over a decorative one since most SGs just don't have the prestige to do both.
Wanted to get people opinions on this.
) [*]Make anchors MUCH tougher please - how about you can't take them out while base has power and control? - ie shield them. [*]Make IoPs worth it... 5% buff? I'll pop a red thanks 
[*]Review base destruction setup... perhaps some kind of base insurance? ie we pay an amount (nothing too extortionate please (*rent cough cough*) to Arachnos and they auto-replace damaged/destroyed goods.[/list]
Our SG (Demons and Vengeful Spirits) have done half a dozen two way raids now and a definte pattern has emerged.
Defending - its a killer. We've found that unless a) you outnumber the other team or b) they give up (generally because of a)) you will lose. Even vs Art of War heros last night (we're villains) who defended VERY well, we just kept going till we knocked out their anchors.
So. If its this easy (relatively) to sucessfully raid a base what does this mean?
Lets assume for a moment that D&Vs have sucessfully completed the Cathedral Trial. We pop our shiny IoP in our base and what do we get.... +5% Damage... hmmmm :/ (this is what it was in Beta at least)
What else do we get? A shedload of other SG/VGs knocking on our (top secret) door (without an actual door in it of course as we can't build those :P) Wanting our IoP.
One raid later (and I think I'm right in saying you can't refuse a raid if you have an IoP?) we have a trashed base which will take literally MONTHS to restore at the current prestige rate.
If I'm wrong and you can refuse raids once you have an IoP well that changes things a bit... though you only keep the IoP for a while iirc then it goes back to Rularuu (wasn't she a contestant on Celeb BB?)
I think that while Raids are a really fun idea there is a bit of work needed. My list would be:
<ul type="square">[*]Fix bug with Join button (I understand this is done and coming.... sooon
Any more things you guys would add to the list.
Bridger if you catch sight of this - can you tell us if Raiding and IoPs is under review at all? I guess as its all new that's probably a given...
Not complaining here guys - want to gather all contructive criticism on Raiding and IoPs in one handy place... Hmm have I put this in the wrong forum.... oh well