[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It depends on how you play
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that's the key point, AP isn't for everyone. I never took it on Empath until I got to level 50, and I did fine without it. But after taking it, I didn't want to lose it! (and now I can't)
[/ QUOTE ]
although the implication above is that only Empaths that team on bad teams need absorb pain... which I would disagree with... otherwise almost every team I have ever been on is a bad team...
surely that can't be true...
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I would disagree with that as well...even the best teams can run into trouble.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It depends on how you play
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that's the key point, AP isn't for everyone. I never took it on Empath until I got to level 50, and I did fine without it. But after taking it, I didn't want to lose it! (and now I can't)
[/ QUOTE ]
although the implication above is that only Empaths that team on bad teams need absorb pain... which I would disagree with... otherwise almost every team I have ever been on is a bad team...
surely that can't be true...
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I would disagree with that as well...even the best teams can run into trouble.
[/ QUOTE ]
yup... and it's always handy to have a quick emergency button. In my opinion anyway 
How come you find that strange? I've been on teams that fought AVs ( I dinged in the shadows, possibly the first on the euro servers), but never encountered a situation whereby AP would have made any difference.
Perhaps it was the teams. Perhaps it was the AV dam output that put it beyond reach of being able to heal, or perhaps it was because I was in teams that never needed to recruit 'tanks' coz the the team knew exactly what it was doing.
Sure, I'm not saying that a heal doesn't help, but fortunatly for me I've been in teams whereby the heals were secondry to all else (post-ED too). I'm saying that i might be naturally lucky or know how to cherry pick teams....
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It depends on how you play
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that's the key point, AP isn't for everyone. I never took it on Empath until I got to level 50, and I did fine without it. But after taking it, I didn't want to lose it! (and now I can't)
[/ QUOTE ]
although the implication above is that only Empaths that team on bad teams need absorb pain... which I would disagree with... otherwise almost every team I have ever been on is a bad team...
surely that can't be true...
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I would disagree with that as well...even the best teams can run into trouble.
[/ QUOTE ]
They can, but they also know how to handle that trouble as well, and its not always down to the empath is it Ms Freedom? 
i have a list in my head of my most trusted empaths (no they dont go afk in hami tank so that may exclude some that know me).
Anyway 1 of them does not have absorb pain and i never had absorb pain till late as i never needed it. I heard it gets you killed and imo there is nothing worse than a dead healer (team failure or healer is an attacker). However after getting it and especially with ED its a great panic heal. It doesnt get you killed, your position or your/team mates actions is what gets you killed.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
How come you find that strange? I've been on teams that fought AVs ( I dinged in the shadows, possibly the first on the euro servers), but never encountered a situation whereby AP would have made any difference.
[/ QUOTE ]
I just find it strange 
It's just my opinion of course and going from my own experience of Absorb Pain making a difference. I took absorb pain when it became available on Psygon and used it as and when it was needed.
I'm not saying it was needed in every single fight I went in to, nor that teams were bad and need to recruit tanks (mostly because I was already teamed with one...), nor that the teams I was on didnt know what they were doing... but I will say that there were the odd occasions where someone would peep their head round a corner (it's human nature) or someone would walk into a group that they hadn't noticed had a boss/AV in. Absorb Pain worked wonders for those moments to get someone back up to full health straight away.
Sure, it's not for everyone and sure it's not 100% needed in a build... but in my opinion it's a nice extra button to have in my power trays because you never know when next someone might have a moment of temporary blindness
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It depends on how you play
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that's the key point, AP isn't for everyone. I never took it on Empath until I got to level 50, and I did fine without it. But after taking it, I didn't want to lose it! (and now I can't)
[/ QUOTE ]
although the implication above is that only Empaths that team on bad teams need absorb pain... which I would disagree with... otherwise almost every team I have ever been on is a bad team...
surely that can't be true...
[/ QUOTE ]
Im behind you with this Psy,
I'd never call AP a wasted slot..
Then again in the game's current state i don't think any one character or AT can completely turn the tide when things start to go wrong. AP however can provide second chance for one player in the team to possibly tilt the scales in the right direction. It won't win bad situations by itself - but nothing will post ED. Team effort is always needed.
There are many different variations of a well-functioning team, and i see that we are on different camps here I know Psy is more in tank+heals camp and the other one is control+defender camp with little need for heals. Both are fine and working ways to make a good team We shouldn't be arguing about this but enjoy the variety of COH. 
We all know that there are several ways of defending but I don't want people to start dissing heals either..
I use it and it does help, but it's just the damage taking bit i hate and the fact you can't heal afterwards.
Contact Information!
Twitter: @TonyParkeze
Facebook: www.facebook.com/anthonyjp91
Email: anthonyjp91@gmail.com
Took AB when ever i could and though like others have said it's not the best power in the set i've lost count the number of deaths this has saved especially near the end of battles.
I don't count the number of times i may have died using it , spesh against Ruin Mages with AoE damage getting thrown about as opposed to me agro'ing danger.
I couldn't drop it now and even in the best teams surely the time must come when "Death" comes knocking on the door , theres no way to completly avoid it and this power WILL save lives if used right.
[ QUOTE ]
I just find it strange It's just my opinion of course and going from my own experience of Absorb Pain making a difference. I took absorb pain when it became available on Psygon and used it as and when it was needed.
[/ QUOTE ]
And I find it odd vice versa. Like I stated before, I've never found myself whereby AP would have made a difference.
Maybe its a tactics thing, if the tank needs that big of a heal, partly because ppl are running round corners blindly, then thats to do with the players rather than the overall asset of AP.
Its funny, coz my Lvl 50 Rad Defender can keep the team alive without the need of a target heal, Heal Other is handy on an empath, but AP is just overkill...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just find it strange It's just my opinion of course and going from my own experience of Absorb Pain making a difference. I took absorb pain when it became available on Psygon and used it as and when it was needed.
[/ QUOTE ]
And I find it odd vice versa. Like I stated before, I've never found myself whereby AP would have made a difference.
Maybe its a tactics thing, if the tank needs that big of a heal, partly because ppl are running round corners blindly, then thats to do with the players rather than the overall asset of AP.
Its funny, coz my Lvl 50 Rad Defender can keep the team alive without the need of a target heal, Heal Other is handy on an empath, but AP is just overkill...
[/ QUOTE ]
Regarding the comment about your rad defender... I'd agree you don't need a target heal, the way you are defending your team is by debuffing the enemies not by healing and buffing the team (as much) so it's difficult to draw a comparison. I've kept teams alive quite nicely with my Kinetics defender without a target heal as well - but I would never draw a comparison between her and my empath... the way I play them in a team environment is just so different.
I do think that pretty much everything you are saying is the idea that any empath that has absorb pain or any player that needs to be healed using absorb pain is a bad player though - and I just don't think that's true. I think there are situations and circumstances that warrant having that emergency button.
I think we might just have to agree to disagree tho... I very much doubt that either one of us is swaying the others opinion on the power
[ QUOTE ]
I do think that pretty much everything you are saying is the idea that any empath that has absorb pain or any player that needs to be healed using absorb pain is a bad player though
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd be lying if I said the above statement didn't have an element of truth to it. Based on my observations and my experiences I do think this. I'm sorry if that offends anyone, but thats how bad I view AP.
For example, today I was playing with my Ice/Kin troller, with an empath who had AP. The AP used on me was quite frankly OTT, it wasn't needed but was used anyways. My own heals saved the empath, ironically. The point is that I generally see empaths use AP when there is not much health that needs healing, and I rarely see it being used on somebody who has precious little health left. So on that basis I am going to think poorly of those who use AP. Yes it is a sweeping statement, and no I haven't seen/played with anyone who are shining examples of proper/correct useage of AP.
[ QUOTE ]
I think we might just have to agree to disagree tho... I very much doubt that either one of us is swaying the others opinion on the power
[/ QUOTE ]
Your absolutely correct. Different playing styles result in different builds, and gawd damn, it would be boring if all us empaths were exactly the same.
Just out of interest, I'm assuming everyone is refering to PvE play in regards to AP, but would anyone take it for the purposes of PvP? Obviously you already know my answer...
[ QUOTE ]
I'd be lying if I said the above statement didn't have an element of truth to it. Based on my observations and my experiences I do think this. I'm sorry if that offends anyone, but thats how bad I view AP.
For example, today I was playing with my Ice/Kin troller, with an empath who had AP. The AP used on me was quite frankly OTT, it wasn't needed but was used anyways. My own heals saved the empath, ironically. The point is that I generally see empaths use AP when there is not much health that needs healing, and I rarely see it being used on somebody who has precious little health left. So on that basis I am going to think poorly of those who use AP. Yes it is a sweeping statement, and no I haven't seen/played with anyone who are shining examples of proper/correct useage of AP.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would agree - in the situation you describe above that is OTT, and in my opinion isn't really the time to use AP. Using it as a general heal when it's not really needed is probably going to get any empath into trouble.
But, not everyone that has AP uses it the way you've described. Infact, the people that have responded to this thread are discussing its use as a "Oh my, that hero only has 5 hps left, I'll use my AP".
I know I've saved people from death when they were redlining by using absorb pain - and I mean seriously redlining (can think of a few examples involving alpha strikes for example). Sure I could probably have used heal other and maybe ran in for a quick heal aura... but on an 8 player team with 1 empath it's nice to save those (and myself!) for the squishies
I'm personally not offended by your view... I do think it's a shame that you've obviously never teamed with an Empath that knows how to use such a great power
As regards to PvP... I have used AP on one of the few occasions when I played it (I'll make no bones about it I'm rubbish at PvP) and was quite suprised that it didn't result in insta-death
[ QUOTE ]
So on that basis I am going to think poorly of those who use AP. Yes it is a sweeping statement, and no I haven't seen/played with anyone who are shining examples of proper/correct useage of AP.
[/ QUOTE ]
If I were to think badly of every power I've seen used poorly in this game, then I'd think all powers were downright awful.
There is a BIG difference between AP not being a useful power, and people tending to use AP badly. You're absolutely right, a lot of people misuse it, and I've spoken to a number of low-level Empaths to point out that they were actually causing the team problems by over-using it, dying, and then not being around to keep everyone else healed.
And yes, you're right that often enough, there's no need for AP. I went a good 30 levels or so before I respecced it in myself, and never felt I needed it! However, after I opted to take it, I realised just how handy having that extra heal was. It might not be saving people for certain debt most of the time, but it certainly gives some peace of mind, not needing to wait those excrutiating seconds for Heal Other to come back. Even on the best teams, mistakes are made, or things can become overwhelming. Or, down to team makeup, another heal might be really useful - if you're on a team made up pretty much entirely of blasters, scrappers, and maybe a tank, with just one Empath and no other Defender or Controller, that extra heal really can be handy. It can also be helpful when certain powersets run up against enemies that cause them particular problems - some tank builds against psychic enemies, for example... and I clearly remember the time I used AP to bring back an SR scrapper from next-to-no health after he took the alpha strike from a large group of enemies who caused def debuffs. Heal Other alone just wouldn't have cut it right then, since he was still taking heavy damage. Speaking as someone who didn't use AP for a long time, you just don't notice instances like that until after you have the power.
Sure you can not take it if you dont find it usefull. But for me im in a little supergroup and I mostly survive from pick up groups and they love AP thats what sets me apart from the other empaths thats why they remember my name and thats why I take it.
[ QUOTE ]
There is a BIG difference between AP not being a useful power, and people tending to use AP badly.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not to me, the difference is minimal at best. Again, I would choose a Mag 3 hold over AP or something as equally as useful.
maybe I just need to see the right person use it in the right context, but I think even if I did witness that, my impression would be little different to the one I hold now. Although my viewpoint of the empaths generally is one of 'buffer' with heal as secondry, rather than an empath that primarily heals.
Oddly, in PvP I dont heal all that often either, I'm a buffer for my team, heals are there just to make killing my teammates difficult and annoying.
With my defender I run as a medic, not a buff/de-buff machine.
The main power I use is either heal other or healing aura (Ive got that endurance thingy two which is usefull, but I tend to only use it when I think the team will need it, or when the most experienced character on the team thinks it is needed).
AP is my emergency heal, if some one is losing health rapidly and entering red I'll hit them with AP, though most times I can make do with just the first two empathy heals.
The one power I did get rid of was clear mind.
In most teams my defender ran with beig caught in a hold/sleep was not much of a problem...And Frankly I found proton volly more useful
bah i dont use and will never use AP, hasten + 3heal/3recharge on heal other + RA's + heal aura is perfectly fine, so you die in bigger mob grps, so what XD you gotta get debt somehow ! XD
AP imo AP is a gr8 power i rarely have problems with it, i dont use it as a primary heal but if someone is deep in the red and i have just used heal other BANG i can use AP then if i feel that it may cause me to die i drop back a few feet, still in range for heal other as this has by now recharged, if i find that the team as a whole is getting hurt i can still run in and heal aura then even dropping regen Aura if i find it nesecarry to heal myself and then maybe move back till the effect wares off.
Basically what im trying to say is there really isnt a problem with AP just maybe how you judge when to use it. I would reccomend any one take it for that situational last gasp heal.
[ QUOTE ]
bah i dont use and will never use AP, hasten + 3heal/3recharge on heal other + RA's + heal aura is perfectly fine, so you die in bigger mob grps, so what XD you gotta get debt somehow ! XD
[/ QUOTE ]
theres a defender mentality for you, pls say u r on defiant pls! 
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Thanks for the discussion and debate on this, I appreciate everyones views.
In the end, on Moonlit's respec, I DIDN'T respec out Absorb Pain, as I have found it more useful as time went on, and even when I joined a team of Femmes sk'ed fighting AVs, I still needed to use it. So it stays.
I'm still using AP, but that's because my build is still pre-ED spec'd. I'll probably still keep it as it's another powerful heal - Aid Other even 6-slotted can't get a Tanker back up to full from Red/Yellow.
Will probably slot it less though - don't want to be tempted by overuse of it and killing myself (two times and counting!)
Ok cool. Would have entered this earlier butRL PC related stuff and anyway all I could add is that the power never appealed enough to even get me to consider taking it.
After specing TG in full pvp build i discovered the following...AP is a must have for performing quick heals on team members getting AS on them...i rarely use outside pvp except when i wanna gracefully die in Atlas park....but in PvP zone AP roXx0rz the soXx0rz
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It depends on how you play
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that's the key point, AP isn't for everyone. I never took it on Empath until I got to level 50, and I did fine without it. But after taking it, I didn't want to lose it! (and now I can't)
[/ QUOTE ]
although the implication above is that only Empaths that team on bad teams need absorb pain... which I would disagree with... otherwise almost every team I have ever been on is a bad team...
surely that can't be true...