Etiquette in PvP zones?


Aisla

 

Posted

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just a quick question here tho as i been reading this for about a good 45 mins now to understand the arguements... SINCE WHEN DOES CoH OR CoV 'FORCE' U INTO PVP?!?!

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The point of my post, was that the kind of person who makes that statement is as bad as the kind of person who goes "suck it up, it's PvP". I wasn't making the statement as an expression of my own opinion.

However, I do have concerns that PvE content will suffer for PvP.


 

Posted

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just a quick question here tho as i been reading this for about a good 45 mins now to understand the arguements... SINCE WHEN DOES CoH OR CoV 'FORCE' U INTO PVP?!?!

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The point of my post, was that the kind of person who makes that statement is as bad as the kind of person who goes "suck it up, it's PvP". I wasn't making the statement as an expression of my own opinion.

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Quite.

However, DJ, actually, the game used to force you to go into a PvP zone, to a location where you could be engaged in PvP, and the only choice you had was that you could avoid it by outlevelling all your contacts since the only mission they would give you would be to enter a PvP zone. Yes, you only had to enter the 'safe zone', but since they aren't actually safe, the point is kind of moot.

This has since been changed, and I'm very glad that Cryptic actually visibly listened to player comments on that one.


Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

 

Posted

see now this will be REALLY interesting to hear how PvP effects PvE... whats char builds? The Zones? Chars being in the zones too much? please do enlighten me


 

Posted

Dear lord, this thread is getting out of hand in my opinion and everyone is going onver and over the same things. You dont like the PVP aspect then dont do it and there, everyone is happy now, to make assumptions based upon a very small experience seems a little presumptious to me though. Personally I cannot understand what people get out of RP at all, seems bizarre to me but i can respect the fact that other people do enjoy this, its not my bag, I have zero interest in it, good luck and happy times to all that do.

Simple fact if you dont like the PVP zones dont do it, but i would much prefer for people to have a decent go at it before listing negative sounding posts because ultimately you are lacking the experience and knowledge to make a well founded and balanced veiw.


**Acceptable "support" responses**

Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault

 

Posted

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see now this will be REALLY interesting to hear how PvP effects PvE... whats char builds? The Zones? Chars being in the zones too much? please do enlighten me

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No need to be sarcastic. I will, despite your attitude, answer your question.

In the build-up to the CoV, a huge number of changes were made to the powersets of every AT in the game. Not the least of which was the global defence reduction, and Enhancement Diversification. We also had Controller powersets suddenly and without previous indication changed so that pest became less numerous. In my mind, an obvious move in order to make the new Mastermind AT more unique.

The defensive abilities of the CoH ATs were designed with PvE in mind, following the addition of PvP, defence was dropped across the board. This could not have been a change meant to make PvE more challenging on its own, because to do that alone, improving mob AI and capabilities is a far more logical course of action, since these are elements which the Developers can retain control over, rather than making a change to various powersets which are open to player modification through the slotting of enhancements.

What the defence reduction DOES do, however, is weaken heroes to a more manageable level in terms of being under threat from other heroes and villains. I can see no other justification, purpose, or goal for a global reduction in defence, other than PvP balancing, which would not have been better achieved by adjusting the opponents we face in PvE, someting players have been crying out for.

As for how PvE content will suffer, I should think it's blindingly obvious. There are a limited number of Developers. These Developers once concentrated on producing PvE content for the game. In the last year, attention has shifted away from the addition of new game content (compare new Epic ATs, new villain groups, Task Forces, and at least 2 new PvE zones in the first year of US CoH to 1 new PvE zone, several PvP zones, a new game which was not ready to be released and has less low-level content than its predescessor, and a host of power changes to the first year of EU CoH) to the provision of PvP.

CoV has its own Development team, yes. But the Developers' attention will now be split between adding new PvE content, and adding new PvP content. Hence, PvE will suffer because of the introduction of PvE. Indeed, the only new zone to be added since the EU game went live is bugged, relatively short and small, and uses recycled villains.

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Dear lord, this thread is getting out of hand in my opinion...

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Did you actually read any of my posts? I have tried the PvP zones, and I enjoyed them. I was pleasantly surprised. I have nothing against PvP, merely the attitude a lot of PvPers who post on the forums have towards people who choose not to partake. I'm not saying these people are the majority, or that they speak for all PvPers, merely that they make themselves heard frequently and strongly. You would have noticed, if you'd read my post, that I say exactly the same about people who make unfounded and pointless complaints about PvP zones like "I don't like being attacked!".


 

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see now this will be REALLY interesting to hear how PvP effects PvE... whats char builds? The Zones? Chars being in the zones too much? please do enlighten me

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Er, no, he means that a tremendous amount of work has gone into PvP content which would otherwise have gone into PvE.

However, my PvE character is currently missioning in Warburg exactly because it's the only place I could do missions. There's a big hole in PvE content in the late 30s which I had fallen into. No new content has been generated in that area, the only place I could get instanced missions to run was Warburg, and it happens to pay a lot of xp for those missions.

Beyond that, I'd estimate that a huge number of the nerfs we've been suffering over the past 10 months wouldn't have happened without the need to bring everyone down to the mortal level to make it possible to balance PvP.

They didn't actually lie, because they chose words which made it possible to change PvE as much as they liked for PvP, as long as they could find the most meagre PvE justification.

Also, if I spend a lot of time in PvP zones, I'm going to consider picking powers I would otherwise ignore. The Leadership Pool for example, more or less pointless to a Scrapper, but it might give me a tiny edge in PvP Zones. That's a power I've picked which gives me little or nothing, except in PvP where it might save my butt from a Stalker.

Feeling enlightened?


Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

 

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Did you actually read any of my posts? I have tried the PvP zones, and I enjoyed them. I was pleasantly surprised.

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None of my post was directed towards anyone in particular at all. If it wasnt relevant to you then it wasnt directed at you


**Acceptable "support" responses**

Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault

 

Posted

I still don't get the i'm being forced into pvp zones because i cant get missions elsewhere thing. I've really not had much trouble on any toons getting missions between the lvl's of 35-40. Fair enough you solo a lot, but from reading previous posts you also team some of the times too, surely people you team with dont all not have any missions or contacts? And if you solo while unable to get missions due to having finished contacts/outleveled etc, then it simply your choice to continue soloing, you do have options whether you say you do or don't.


 

Posted

Mah i cant believe this is still going on honestly chaps!

As for the PvP vrs RP vibe - give that a rest everyone, its out of order and irrelevant. Wordmaker i think said RP'ers are a secretive lot - agreed, and yes maybe there arent as many flames on RP boards but I wonder why? Is there any RP'er ranting ther regards PvP? nope tis all here hence the imbalance of flames.

Its going over and over the same points as they fail to sink in and its getting silly now. Your not Forced into PvP, just dont take that contacts missions or whatever as it stands you enter teh zone you consent - there is nothing any of us can do about it, if you feel that you are again take it up with teh Devs who can do summit not the PvP'ers who enjoy it and arent gonna be sympathetic. There is no need to comdem PvP on teh basis that you dont approve the populations of teh zones speak for themselves and ok warburg isnt excactly jumping but remember not to many villians are of lvl to enter yet.

This thread was started because someone wanted to know how to act in a PvP zone - the OP obviously wants to go there so this nonsense is waaayyyy off topic, i pity any new folks reading it on the premise of teh title.


 

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None of my post was directed towards anyone in particular at all. If it wasnt relevant to you then it wasnt directed at you

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Thank you for the clarification.

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And if you solo while unable to get missions due to having finished contacts/outleveled etc, then it simply your choice to continue soloing, you do have options whether you say you do or don't.

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This doesn't change the fact that it is claimed that you should be able to solo through the whole game. What other option is there? You have the choice of hunting mobs, or not soloing.


 

Posted

Sorry, mate, but you're contradicting yourself here. You say you want it to stop, yet you continue to put your comments in on the matter...

I am going to drop it now, I have tried to put my thoughts across, if people continue to misunderstand, there is either something wrong with my English (Hey, I am only Dutch, after all...) or something with the receivers' English, since all my posts seem to be taken the wrong way.

If people do not -wish- to listen, I see no reason why I should try and continue to explain myself to deaf ears. Have a good one.


 

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This doesn't change the fact that it is claimed that you should be able to solo through the whole game. What other option is there? You have the choice of hunting mobs, or not soloing.

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I have never seen it siad any where that you should be able to solo through the entire game. It has been siad that every one should be able to solo on heroic but stuff like A.V. your gonna need a team for.

Yes there is a big content gap at the 35 to 40 lvs but I think the next zone will be a PvE zone with new lv 35 to 40 content. And as for the fact that the lack of content has forced you in to the PvP zone sorry but I soloed Sharp Shot from 38 to 41. And I didnt have the PvP zones then to go get missons from so the argument of being forced in to there is still very faled im sorrry.


 

Posted

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I still don't get the i'm being forced into pvp zones because i cant get missions elsewhere thing.

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I'll explain in smaller words then.

Up until the most recent patch, there were three missions, one per zone, which forced you to enter the PvP zones. At some point (as with The Hollows and Striga) all your contacts would be giving you that mission. You had the option of taking it, or not getting missions from your contacts until you outlevel them.

Is that clear enough?


This has nothing to do with my problem of running out of content, and has now been fixed so that you don't have to enter the zone, just meet an introductory contact outside it.

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And if you solo while unable to get missions due to having finished contacts/outleveled etc, then it simply your choice to continue soloing, you do have options whether you say you do or don't.

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I had one instanced mission which requires 4 team members, and I had whatever TF (Numina?) that's available at that level. Well, I just did Numina and that wouldn't have got me to level 40, so I might have been up at 39... with nothing to do but street hunts.

I could team up and take higher level missions with others, I guess, but I can still get better xp, more safely, and have more fun running missions at my level in Warburg.

Are you actually objecting to the fact that I run missions in Warburg? That I don't actively go looking for PvP in a PvP Zone? Are you complaining that I run missions in a PvP Zone and don't like PvP much? What's your objection to me being in Warburg?


Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

 

Posted

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I still don't get the i'm being forced into pvp zones because i cant get missions elsewhere thing.

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I'll explain in smaller words then.

Up until the most recent patch, there were three missions, one per zone, which forced you to enter the PvP zones. At some point (as with The Hollows and Striga) all your contacts would be giving you that mission. You had the option of taking it, or not getting missions from your contacts until you outlevel them.

Is that clear enough?


This has nothing to do with my problem of running out of content, and has now been fixed so that you don't have to enter the zone, just meet an introductory contact outside it.

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And if you solo while unable to get missions due to having finished contacts/outleveled etc, then it simply your choice to continue soloing, you do have options whether you say you do or don't.

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I had one instanced mission which requires 4 team members, and I had whatever TF (Numina?) that's available at that level. Well, I just did Numina and that wouldn't have got me to level 40, so I might have been up at 39... with nothing to do but street hunts.

I could team up and take higher level missions with others, I guess, but I can still get better xp, more safely, and have more fun running missions at my level in Warburg.

Are you actually objecting to the fact that I run missions in Warburg? That I don't actively go looking for PvP in a PvP Zone? Are you complaining that I run missions in a PvP Zone and don't like PvP much? What's your objection to me being in Warburg?


Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

 

Posted

No one is objecting to you doing missons in a pvp zone. What peope are obejecting to is your constant betrial of the PvP zones to be full of ganking morons. The fact that you keep saying that you are forced in to PvP when you dont want to do it when the fact is that no one has forced you to go to the Warburg to get these missons it was your choice the reason that the XP is good in these missons is good is because its risk Vs reward the risk is your gonna get killed by other players.

As I have siad Sharp soloed form 38 to 40 not because I wanted to but because I couldnt get a team. I didnt have the option of going to Warburg to get misson with huge amounts of Xp so I was mainly street hunting and doing odd missons when I got a team.

And as for the fact that you where forced there yeah ok I do consent that your contacts did send you to the pvp zones. But if you where there for more than 30 secs if you didnt want to be I would of been surpirsed.


 

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Sorry, mate, but you're contradicting yourself here. You say you want it to stop, yet you continue to put your comments in on the matter...

I am going to drop it now, I have tried to put my thoughts across, if people continue to misunderstand, there is either something wrong with my English (Hey, I am only Dutch, after all...) or something with the receivers' English, since all my posts seem to be taken the wrong way.

If people do not -wish- to listen, I see no reason why I should try and continue to explain myself to deaf ears. Have a good one.

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Erm me thinks your missing the point of what i said its not contradictory if you read what i actually said and not a misenterpretation of it, posting from different sides of a debate is what this is for but you must concede the other persons POV is as relevent as yours.

The country of origin is irrelevant as shown many times, i judge a person as a person and how they post not as a country hell I'm scottish If i were to do that i'd be in constant batttle with my neighbours so I find that dig a lil off TBH.

Its the tone of posts and the negativity i dislike you cant expect to be treated with respect when you don't offer any in return, you misunderstand and maybe get misunderstood but negative remarks and condemming ppl or playing style is not they way to get folks to listen instead you get their backs up - what i want to stop is some people trying to turn this into PvP vrs RP if you read my recent post you'd see that - I think in that its me you misunderstand.

People are willing to listen I cant see anyone here who isnt, instead of jumping on teh defensive why not listen to others? respect and be respected its simple really.


 

Posted

Yes your contacts may have forced you to go speak to a contact just inside PvP zones (which it was entirely possible to do within the countdown till active pvp you get). The 'Mission' as you describe it was to speak to someone inPvP zones. How many times have you been sent to speak to someone in a zone with mobs higher than ur own level before PvP zones were introduced? i remember a few times having to do that. However no one forces you to take the missions there. You have been complaining about the lvl 35-40 gap for a good number of months now, surely even street hunting would have leveled you through this in a much shorter period. If it bothered you as much as you say it does, why didnt you do something about it like heck i dunno be sociable and grit your teeth and go join some teams?



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Are you actually objecting to the fact that I run missions in Warburg? That I don't actively go looking for PvP in a PvP Zone? Are you complaining that I run missions in a PvP Zone and don't like PvP much? What's your objection to me being in Warburg?

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Maybe you should rethink that paragraph. I never once said i object to you not liking PvP, being in Warberg or that you do missions there. I do however object to the label that you are applying to PvP zones and people because of 1 or 2 bad experiences in an 'empty' zone.


 

Posted

(I think most of this will be answering Eagle too, FYI. It's kind of general.)

Not going to have the discussion about why being forced into a PvP Zone is different from being forced to go to, say, the Hollows. Had it already, thanks. Suffice to say that Cryptic agree with the view that it shouldn't happen, and there was a simple solution, which they implemented.

By the way, Aisla's PC regularly takes longer than the 30 second PvP timer to actually load the Warburg map (a one year-old machine badly in need of a memory and graphics card update ). So she'd be there for a good bit longer than 30 seconds on those missions.

Rock, well done, man. I haven't levelled Crow since I4 simply because I was stuck and I find street hunts very boring. Levelling him was just too tedious, so I concentrated on some alts. Did mean some friends are catching up, so I won't have to face 40-50 and all the AVs on my own.

I try not to portray the Zones as the havens of gankers, personally. They are out there. There's a thread just started asking why all the heroes run away once the villains get organised. The implication (actually it basically says as much) is that the heroes are in it for easy kills and run when it gets tough. The thread is basically portraying all the "non-regular PvPer" heroes as gankers, if you think about it.


Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

 

Posted

yeah maybe I missread what you siad and for that I am sorry also it was a right sod getting Sharp past 40 but after that things got better. I do agree that it seems a lot of Hero players that dont seem to want to stand and fight but would rather get you on your own in a 3 one fight. But some of the fights at bloody bay when they are attacking the villain base are great fun I have been involed in both sides of these battels now and have seen both sides use tactics wich are a bit under hand but they are still fun to partake in I would recomend to every one to come to bloody at least once to have a go at a mass hero vs villain fight.


 

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There are two kinds of people currently becoming extremely vocal.

The kind who love PvP and don't care how others feel about it, or about being killed repeatedly, the kind whose response to many (if not all) PvP complaints is "tough, I see you in a PvP zone, you're dead", regardless of whether or not the concerns are legitimate.


The other is the "I'm being forced to PvP, I didn;t buy a PvP game! Why can't you all just leave me alone?" type, who, while their personal opinion of PvP is valid, don't seem to be able or willing to construct a decent argument to back up any of their concerns.

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I haven't finished this thread yet, but interesting descriptions here. Interesting, but possibly a tad biased?

I'll get on with the rest of the thread now.


 

Posted

How is what I said biased? I'm arguing against both sides of the argument!!


 

Posted

It just struck me that way. The first group, are protrayed as being vocal and not caring about the legitimate views of the other players, and I read it as you implying they views weren't valid. On the other hand, the second group do have valid opinions.

Nothing major, which was why I described it a tad biased.

I actually view myself more as a roleplayer than a PvP, but more of the tabletop kind. Mainly because the game isn't set up for roleplaying, and I wouldn't know how they could make it so. However, I found this conversation quite interesting. The biggest problem I see is that the zones are set up for PvP, so unless the system changes quite drastically they should be able to target who they want. Obviously there are exceptions, but they apply to PvE just as much, mainly ruining the fun of other players. The reality is, and ignoring the 'forced into the zone' arguement, it is a PvP zone and by going in you are accepting the ground rules for the zone.

Personally, there are bits I don't like. Namely tping or attacking people in the 'safe zones'. But to get around that would require some changes to the system. My preference would be that you can't generally target or damage someone in a safe zone, however to stop people hitting and running back, I think there should be a time frame that you could still be targetted on being entering the safe zone. The inverse of the countdown for entering the zone.

I also think that there should be a 'roleplay' PvP zone, but the only way I could see that working is you challenging the other person or having a flag you switch on that says you are open for PvP.

The question I'd be asking myself if I was the Dev, is how popular is the RP element. I know some of the more vocal (both in the good and bad sense of the word) forum users are into RP, it'd be interesting to see how many 'normal' players would be interested in such a thing.

As an aside, I would have thought the Arenas would have given you something like that, but I wouldn't know if they met your requirements or not. However, it'd be hard for potential new RPers to drop by.

Just some end of the day ramblings, and not meant ot be offensive, so hopefully they're not.


 

Posted

Not offensive at all!

No, we considered the Arena, but decided against it on several grounds:

1: You can't select maps yourself
2: You are cut off from communicating with anyone not in the Arena
3: it's harder for new people to get involved.

I actually think a PvP "flagging" system would be great. Maybe set a 30-60 second delay between when the flag is triggered and when it comes into effect, which would stop people abusing it to get into mobs, or to escape tough fights.


 

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I would have thought the Arenas would have given you something like that

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Other things wrong with the arenas:

Emotes don't work! Why don't emotes work?
You can't pick the map. (I know Wordy also mentioned it, but it's such a big one it's worth mentioning twice.)
Did I mention you can't pick the map? (Okay, three times.)

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is how popular is the RP element

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It isn't. Compared to the PvP and 'gamer' communities, the RP community is very small. If it was bigger, we'd probably have a dedicated RP server.

That said, I'm unimpressed by the RP servers in WoW, so I'm not sure I'd want one. If I find the idea of randomly being attacked by another hero in Warburg a bit dumb (it happened early on, but since more villains have entered the zone, the HvH stuff seems to have become less common), I somehow find it vaguely offensive that I should be challenged to random duels without even a word of introduction on an "RP Server."

So, if the population of real, RP-biased servers has a high proportion of (basically) non-roleplayers, I figure the actual population of roleplayers in MMOs is probably statistically close to zero.


Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

 

Posted

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Other things wrong with the arenas:

Emotes don't work! Why don't emotes work?

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They do! Or at least /em dance and /em drumdance do, which suggests to me that the rest of them do. You can't have anyone targetted, so hit escape before try to do one.