Alright. After reading everything, I'm going to say what I have to say and apologize for crappy english and/or things i say that might hurt. It is my only intension to help.
Anyways, Jersey said "since his base regen is 2400HP/20secs." If so, you certianly can't think about retreating after the mitos re-spawn at 50% (more on that later) HP, because he WILL gain that xp back while everyone moves out & back in to the Hive to minimize mitos spawn. Tactics about such stuff suggest that he MIGHT have a timer for a Mitos re-spawn, but that timer will be reset at some point, and it will go all over again.
Also, tactics i've seen were about two possibilities: 1) Either the mitos spawn is a written-script-POWER that Hamidon automaticly fires at 50% and other mark-points, and 2) It is an AMBUSH'd script, and in that case, holding Hamidon wouldn't make a diffrence, because they will spawn anyway. This, however, isn't true, proven false by last sucessful raids.
The amount of people required to hold Hamidon is really big. I mean, 29 controllers and another 50+ Epic holders couldn't cut it, PLUS the AM's buffs and debuffs. The Union 50 List, as we all know, can't include EVERY single 50, and so, there must be some people who havn't registered themselves.
Your original plan was gathering all the people you can, without revealing the time/date. This, IMO, won't be sucessful because people might slip, not get the message and just miss the raid. Also, keeping the last unsucessful raid, the people who DID hit Hamidon didn't cut it, and I never saw it go anywhere NEER 90%. Keeping the date a secret will require a HUGH amount of time to send PMs with the details, and keeping tracks on who is going to be there.
Also, if it will be a secret, not a lot of people will show up, which will, even with the perfect plan, result with an unsucessful raid due to lack of fire power. Therefore, the date and time should be made public to EVERYONE (maybe lock it for some users with moderator's help), and be planned a moth and a half-two months BEFORE the raid itself, have a post 'sticked', including the plans and everything.
Now, onto my next point, and I don't want to insult ANYONE of the Jersey-sucessful-raid planners, but a big part of the lack of people joining the raid is the fact that the scrappers and tankers were HARDLY even allowed anywhere NEER Hamidon. Yes, I know the lag was HUGH, I've been there, but during the last raid I only saw one scrapper.
So, orginizing, the way I see it, has to be done like this: a good focused post with the time, plan, rules, guidelines, etc. Information on getting the vanguard accolodate.
Other then that, regarding my point about not everyone registering on the 50 List, you (maybe we) should just log in a few times a day, and telling the level 50s and anyone neer 45, about the raid, plan, and the forum post. This, as silly and hard work it seems, IMO will pay off with the amount of people getting to the raid.
Also, guides should be written about the PvP Zone's temp powers which are said to debuff resistance. Seeing how our 'in-box' thinking is causing us failiures, this is a good idea. We should start thinking 'Out of the box' - PvP powers, and we should check about the possibility of CONFUSING the Monsters around the hive - it is a good idea and some of them DO have holds. However, maintaining this could be a problem and a controlish team should set up a time and check how hard it will be to confuse the monsters.
Teams should be setted up-front, giving every AT a diffrent leader, sub-leaders, etc. I don't mind having a managment position, and I would be glad to help.
Last point, someone said something about the Mitos re-spawn range - if a hero is out of Hamidon's range, it won't count for another mitos spawn. This range, i've checked, is big. Took my warshade phase shifted to get the exploration badge, and after reaching the rock platform, they were still shooting at me, and I had to run away even further. Someone should check the range.
That is all. I'm very interested in making a plan that will be sucessful.
@Double
Double Flame 50 fire/devices
Double Shade 50 tri-form warshade
Double Light 50 dwarf-human peacebringer
Double Control 50 earth/rad
hey ho, i have no Hamidon experience, but if he gets TOO tough couldnt every person going for it just respec into the Presence pool and stack Invoke Panic and Intimidate on him? that combined with all the Illusion Controllers might have a bit of effect right?
Shnyet AWAY
The idea about nukes is a good one, a -res and -regen debuff that's available to all with a little effort.
Also, anyone know how HAmidon's endurance works? Since we know the mito spawn is power based that could be another way to neuter him.
If it's a power based script, then it will fir it up even if he's just gone above 50% and we'll put him down again, I tried a little while ago with marauder's unstoppable..
With the current recharge for unstoppable he cudn't fire it that often, we had the time to come back from the hossie after a wipe, bring him down after he regenned up and he fires Unstoppable once again..
So I guess that with Hami it can work the same way..
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Everyone knew abut this?
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It hasn't been definitively proven if this has been changed, but Hamidon used to have higher mez resistance the more people were standing in the goo. This may or may not be true now. But even if this has been changed, having more people around the controllers does make their lives difficult in other ways, in particular by adding more lag around them.
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Aye, knew about this.Its a myth. Tested within a number of Hammi raids, yet still unproven. Confirmed by the big man himself.
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pre-ED most hami-holders had their holds 6x hold, meaning a rough 200% hold, according to your calculation, if we 6slot now its 110%, so we need to increase amount of holders with 90%? Of course not everybody had 6slots, but we just judge on the general setup that worked. If you also read my post copied from the US boards that after ED 29 trollers + 50+ epics couldnt hold him, I think that 40 is a bit off 
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Nope. Hold durations meant nothign 'cept how long the holds lasted. Nothing more.
Hold duratiom meant exactly that.'Hold' 'Duration'. It was the length of the hold, not the strength of the hold, as that was already determined by testing and the US boards..
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Hami holds like any other villain I think, just on a larger scale. This means he has a magnitude hold resistance which needs to be overcome first, the kicker is that once this is overcome you must also maintain that magnitude otherwise he'll break out. Essentially, you need to have enough holding power to keep him held and then enough recharge to replace every hold that is on him before that previous version of that hold runs out.
Herein lies the ED issue, both recharge and hold duration play directly into the magnitude of hold you can put on Hamidon. A basic example might be that with three recharge and three hold instead of six recharge you could apply the hold for half the time but twice as often. However, recharge enhancements and buffs give diminishing returns since unlike hold duration they don't enhance from the base value everytime. This means that we are able to essentially floor recharge rate using Accelerate metabolism and still have a 200% boost to hold duration. Now however, we lack the ability to boost hold duration and are unable to reduce recharge rate further so that puts everyone in quite a pickle since there aren't really any other factors that affect our ability to hold him.
There may be hope however. On the issue 5 raid I helped lead, there was a spectacular (and lagtacular) turnout because there was such a long wait between it and the previous raid. We were able to hold Hamidon with the controller turnout without great use of the vanguard medal which boosts hold durations for 1 minute. Reinforcing with holding/attacking blasters after the hold began to stick, it's possible that we could have held Hami with just the sparing initial use of the vanguard medals that Dave Pyrons called for. In Hamidon raids past the real trick was to activate the Vangurads just before 50% to make sure he had no chance of breaking out.
Onto the point though, the Vanguard is an effective way of boosting hold duration, if enough holders turn up to overcome Hami's hold resistance but he keeps breaking out then a simultaneous vanguard surge could provide enough hold duration boost to hold him for I'd say about a minute and a half before he broke out after the vanguards had worn off and total hold magnitude began to decrease again. If we have enough heroes to defeat Hami in about a minute flat the jelly could be ours.
Best case scenario's still about 40 controllers though.
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Aye, he does. But its bit different from the normal AV.
1) Mitos spawn can be predicted.
2) Holds should be able to be stacked quicker than before..if u know how holds work.
3) Hammi does not need a holding strategy to be beaten, considering that was a Defiant strategy you nicked in the first place 
Union. You know who to ask for advice. Just open the mouth 
It was a joint strategy fine-tuned for the EU servers by certain Defiant and Union players, but which was originally taken from the US Champion server.
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The idea about nukes is a good one, a -res and -regen debuff that's available to all with a little effort.
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Have you seen the animaton on those temp powers? Enough people fired those off at once, you'd definitely kill the raid off through lag.
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Now, onto my next point, and I don't want to insult ANYONE of the Jersey-sucessful-raid planners, but a big part of the lack of people joining the raid is the fact that the scrappers and tankers were HARDLY even allowed anywhere NEER Hamidon. Yes, I know the lag was HUGH, I've been there, but during the last raid I only saw one scrapper.
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Scrappers and Tankers are practically useless on a Hamidon raid. My only level 50 is a Scrapper, I know if I turn up their I'm not going to be doing anything constructive once the Mito's are down. So if those Tankers and Scrappers don't turn up, its hardly going to kill the raid because you don't need them.
If that bothers you, complain to Cryptic. They set up Hamidon this way, no-one else.
It doesn't bother me, but after the last raid, we all realised we do NOT have enough fire-power, and the place to find it is the scrappers and tankers - altought they don't have holds and such, it is STILL damage.
@Double
Double Flame 50 fire/devices
Double Shade 50 tri-form warshade
Double Light 50 dwarf-human peacebringer
Double Control 50 earth/rad
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It doesn't bother me, but after the last raid, we all realised we do NOT have enough fire-power, and the place to find it is the scrappers and tankers - altought they don't have holds and such, it is STILL damage.
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Damage isn't the issue. You need to hold Hamidon, or the Mito spawn and related lag will finish the raid. You get him held, you can stack -Regen powers on him to flatline his HP and start pummeling him with Blasters. You can have al the damage dealers in the world pounding away at him, but when the lag kicks in you fail the raid. You have to minimise the number of people in the core, and I'm afraid that means getting rid of Scrappers and Tanks.
Then we'll have to be careful, Prof, won't we? It's an option
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Then we'll have to be careful, Prof, won't we? It's an option
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Why are you talking to people who aren't here? Using Controller is the proven way. You want to cram the core with every single AT that turns, you are going to fail. Your powers will stop working, the Mito spawn will lag you out and you'll have to wait five minutes before the game even realises your dead.
Your not just fighting Hamidon, your fighting the technical limitations of the game. Most people who turn up at Hamidon Raids fail to realise this.
I got your point. last raid we couldn't even floor it, so i just figured we didnt have enough fire-power. My point still remains: we need to get more controllers and epic holders if we want to do this right, and my way is still the same.
@Double
Double Flame 50 fire/devices
Double Shade 50 tri-form warshade
Double Light 50 dwarf-human peacebringer
Double Control 50 earth/rad
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so i just figured we didnt have enough fire-power
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How many Radiation Defender/Controllers did you have? Stacked -Regen has been the way to go for quite some time.
@ Double,I see your point about the keeping it secret but I'm not overly worried about that as I really only wanted people to post who I didn't know about.I have many friends in CoH who I have spoken too and can rely on to turn up..so no worries there really
Like Question has stated I wanted to try and have a go at Hami with the least Heroes needed to reduce lag.This not only makes things much much easier but also brings some enjoyment back into doing Hami
Now tho and more importantly the plan. Lots of differing views here about which is the best course of action and what we need.Lets make this a joint effort from now on eh and try and come up with good alternative to the holdin Hami tactic?And how about making public the date?A week before xmas?
I like the use of temp powers idea and I reckon if used in conjunction with lots of debuffers could be viable.Infact aslong we get a good turn out of good players and not tools then really any tactic can be tried once we're in.If we're organised enough then we shuld be able to change tactics on the fly.
And remember all previous tactics were dreamed up by someone at 1st so we shouldn't be too scared of trying something completely different,you never know it could make you famous 
Maybe a raid could be done on the test server (diffrent machine?) with the Defianteers - a private raid with more people and two servers who can think about this idea.
Moreover, maybe a combiantion of both controlling and blasting can work here - if the holds aren't staying for that long, maybe he can be held just for the 55%-45% of the hitting, and again at the lower point-marks, combining with the debuffs, and timed temp-powers with the diffrent teams to fire up, so it will last longer for diffrent periods of time - one wave at the start, another in 2 minutes, third after 4 minutes...
@Double
Double Flame 50 fire/devices
Double Shade 50 tri-form warshade
Double Light 50 dwarf-human peacebringer
Double Control 50 earth/rad
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Moreover, maybe a combiantion of both controlling and blasting can work here - if the holds aren't staying for that long, maybe he can be held just for the 55%-45% of the hitting, and again at the lower point-mark
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If you have him held and drop his health to below 50% but THEN he breaks out there'll still be a Mito Spawn.
The holding plan is still the best way to go IMO. There are a number of other things we can do to organise a good holding team and with luck get enough people to stick a hold.
I'd love to try other ideas but agree that a test raid might be the way forward for that scenario.
A question though: Were the servers upgraded for CoV at all? And does that in any way affect raid lag? I wasn't here for the last raid but on the one before that I was moving at a pretty good speed with all my graphics options turned way way down.
ok then, another important fact. looks like I still have things to learn in planning a Hami raid...
maybe we are looking at it the wrong way: how about confusing him, or disorienting him? Energy tankers and blasters have disorienting moves, as well as most of the other ATs...
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A question though: Were the servers upgraded for CoV at all? And does that in any way affect raid lag? I wasn't here for the last raid but on the one before that I was moving at a pretty good speed with all my graphics options turned way way down.
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I understand that they are on the same servers, and so the test servers can have CoV and Hamidon working, however the test server IS the best way to have more controllers then usual, considering we can have defiant's controllers and epic holding squad - also a private party - but still, an additional force. I'm sure they won't mind.
@Double
Double Flame 50 fire/devices
Double Shade 50 tri-form warshade
Double Light 50 dwarf-human peacebringer
Double Control 50 earth/rad
Disorienting works in theory, but I'm pretty sure there are more holding than disorient powers in the game. In general holds are also more certain because a lot of the disorients are chances on attacks rather than flat mezzes. I don't think confuse has ever been tried and don't know how many confuses it would take to put Hami under or if that would even stop him spawning Mitos.
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A question though: Were the servers upgraded for CoV at all? And does that in any way affect raid lag? I wasn't here for the last raid but on the one before that I was moving at a pretty good speed with all my graphics options turned way way down.
I understand that they are on the same servers, and so the test servers can have CoV and Hamidon working, however the test server IS the best way to have more controllers then usual, considering we can have defiant's controllers and epic holding squad - also a private party - but still, an additional force. I'm sure they won't mind.
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Should have worded that a little better. I meant are the servers bigger than they used to be which would mean less lag?
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The idea about nukes is a good one, a -res and -regen debuff that's available to all with a little effort.
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Have you seen the animaton on those temp powers? Enough people fired those off at once, you'd definitely kill the raid off through lag.
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But for about 5 seconds, it would look sweet. We could blow Hami up in the air and I'd be all 'You got like three feet of air that time.'
I'm pretty sure they had to upgrade in some way the live servers, to have both CoH people and CoV people, but not completly sure because we do, after all, can play with only one character at a time, and so the general playing people is the same, in addition to the new guys who just bought the game. If the machine was upgraded, then only to contain more people at one given moment, and therefore, less lag.
I think it is a long shot that the test server was upgraded, because it isn't meant in the first place to run a full community, but only for several people at a time, and therefore wasn't upgraded. Moreover, We have seen in the Arena Event they did a month ago, that the test server can well contain a big amount of people.
Hope that answered your question.
@Double
Double Flame 50 fire/devices
Double Shade 50 tri-form warshade
Double Light 50 dwarf-human peacebringer
Double Control 50 earth/rad
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But for about 5 seconds, it would look sweet. We could blow Hami up in the air and I'd be all 'You got like three feet of air that time.'
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No, your game would freeze up then five mutes later you'd suddenly find yourself chewing floor and surrounded by Mitos. But its a noble endeavour, I support nuclear proliferation afterall.
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One wacky idea could be Synchronized Orbital Strike.
The Warburg missiles offer one-shot high damage attack, chemical debuffs damage resistance and biological buffs ally damage.
When enough of these get fired all at once it might help the small number of heroes to get over the 50% threshold more easily. On the other hand they are graphic intensive so they could just lag out everyone.
--
Tenebra 46 dark/dark/dark scrapper
Forked Tongue 22 fire/cold corruptor
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Now here's someone who's thinking out the box, to use a cliche. If the temps prove useful, are there any others from Siren's or BB we could use?