New to Invul

Any tips on slotting? Any powers not needed?

(shrug) It depends. Tell us what you plan to do with this tank.

Lots of people skip Resist Energies and Resist Elements (although they're better than they used to be). Plenty skip Unstoppable. Personally, I took all 9.

Your most important powers are: Temporary Invulnerability, Dull Pain, Invincibility, Unyielding and Tough Hide. After that, it gets pretty subjective. Most people take Resist Physical Damage because S/L damage is so common.

Slotting is pretty straightforward on most of the main ones. On Invincibility, I would say standard practice is to start with defbuff, some end reduction is nice, then add accbuff later. On the 3 passive resists, slotting isn't a big deal since they only give 10% resistance (increased from 7.5%). I have some IO set pieces in there and get the resistance up to about 13%. I'm not going to stress out trying to get an extra 2%. Instead I went with sets for regen bonus.

I have never had Unstoppable on a tanker, and having experienced it on brutes and scrappers don't much care for it.

Everything is helpful, although Resist Elements and Resist Energies don't have a high priority, and do not repay the investment of lots. Personally, I've taken all the passives, and two slotted them to get recovery bonuses.

Plan on taking Tough and Weave, but they aren't quite the priority for you as they are for Willpower. Plan also on getting as much endurance recovery as you are able. Do these things and you will be quite adequately tough and have fun.

<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

If you haven't played one before you may want to glance at my mini-guide to the first 20 levels playing an Invuln, it will give you a solid foundation to build your tanker with. Later on you might want to check out my guide to soft capping your Invuln for more advanced suggestions and IO set recommendations.

Invuln is capable of some extreme feats now if built correctly; it can rival a Granite tanker for raw survivability.

Both guides are linked in my sig.

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If you haven't played one before you may want to glance at my mini-guide to the first 20 levels playing an Invuln, it will give you a solid foundation to build your tanker with. Later on you might want to check out my guide to soft capping your Invuln for more advanced suggestions and IO set recommendations.

Invuln is capable of some extreme feats now if built correctly; it can rival a Granite tanker for raw survivability.

Both guides are linked in my sig.

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C_M_A has written some great guides for Invuln Tankers, especially newer ones. I would follow his advice at first until you feel comfortable fiddling with your build more.

A Bare Bones Inv Tanker: TI, DP, UY, and Invinc. 4 Slots into the toggles, 3 Res(or Def)/1 EndRed, and 6 into DP, 3 Heal/3 Recharge.

Of the other powers in the set, Tough Hide is the best to get, followed by RPD. Both offer a good deal of mitigation when added to what you already have.

REl and REn are useful, but skippable. If you have power slots available, go for it. If not, no biggy.

Passives you could either leave with the base slot, or 3 slot. I generally 3 slot them, because if I'm taking something, I may as well make it worth it.

Unstoppable is an interesting, and phenomenal power if you learn to use it. If you don't, it's a death sentence. It's a true 'god mode' tier 9, but you pay for that with a massive crash that can kill you if you're not paying attention. 1 Res in the base slot and you should be good to go. Capped Resists to everything is a lotta fun, and the extra recovery is very nice. I actually use it as a recovery buff mostly on the characters that have it. All that said, it is rather skippable for the most part, since you won't often need the extra durability, or want the crash.

I recommend Tough/Weave for the added survivability, and also because as an Inv tanker you're likely going to need powers to sink all those extra enh. slots into.

Inv tankers can get by with very few powers, and still be decently tough. A nice benefit of that is that the set costs less end to run than the other tanker primaries, somewhat making up for a lack of end recovery (other than Unstoppable).

Build it right and play it well, and it'll handle whatever you can throw at it.

Interesting replies. Thank you. Now i have a couple questions.

1) Why skip the 2 Resists? Is there not enough energy or fire damage to protect from at end game? (50) That's 10% resist and 20-20% effect resist. (what is effect anyway)

2) Tough, i usually get. Is weave really wanted? That's 5 toggles running, can the end. be maintained easily? (without getting alot of sets) I mainly just run common recipes on builds.

The main reason i wanted to try Inv. was the lack of end. usage it looked to consume in mids. I'd hate to have to get more toggles to run if not needed. Thanks for all the replies.

While Unstoppable is not a 'must have,' if you can work it in, it can be a nice addition.

That said, I freely admit that I don't enocunter too many situations where I need it... but when I do, it's a wonderful thing.

My personal best remembered use of Unstoppable was in a large, open room in a tech map... the one ring walkway. My team were fighting Nemesis soldiers, and I was the only non-squishy there... and every enemy spawn (and there were a lot of them!) had a Sniper in it.

After tying a few things that... ended poorly, I just hit Unstoppable and started taking out the Snipers - managed to clear them all out before the crash, and the team was able to eliminate the leftovers while I rested up.

Still, that's been one of three times total I've ever used Unstoppable, so it isn't really needed.

Now... I've personally not seen why Tough and Weave would be a good invenstment. I don't think the resist &amp; defense the give are woth the added endurance cost... not on an Invul, at least. But that may just be me.

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Interesting replies. Thank you. Now i have a couple questions.

1) Why skip the 2 Resists? Is there not enough energy or fire damage to protect from at end game? (50) That's 10% resist and 20-20% effect resist. (what is effect anyway)

2) Tough, i usually get. Is weave really wanted? That's 5 toggles running, can the end. be maintained easily? (without getting alot of sets) I mainly just run common recipes on builds.

The main reason i wanted to try Inv. was the lack of end. usage it looked to consume in mids. I'd hate to have to get more toggles to run if not needed. Thanks for all the replies.

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1) Energy/ negative damage is more of a worry than fire/ cold. Fire/cold is the less common damage types. I usually get Resist Energies, I hate being drained. My response to fire/cold: Dull Pain-- I feel a lot better.

2) Yes endurance can be maintained even with 5 or more toggles running on any build. People were doing it before IOs came out. I would suggest you invest in a few sets anyways that give +recovery for 2 IOs. Bid ahead of time, bid low and eventually you'll get them.

Note on Unstoppable: I saw advice to just slot 1 resist in the base and you'll be good, I disagree. You want some recharge in there- 2 or 3 slots as you have them to spare. Resist is not necessary except for maybe scrappers and brutes.

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Interesting replies. Thank you. Now i have a couple questions.

1) Why skip the 2 Resists? Is there not enough energy or fire damage to protect from at end game? (50) That's 10% resist and 20-20% effect resist. (what is effect anyway)

2) Tough, i usually get. Is weave really wanted? That's 5 toggles running, can the end. be maintained easily? (without getting alot of sets) I mainly just run common recipes on builds.

The main reason i wanted to try Inv. was the lack of end. usage it looked to consume in mids. I'd hate to have to get more toggles to run if not needed. Thanks for all the replies.

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Even with the passives, Invul's resist values against non S/L damage are not great; Invul main forms of mitigation against those damage types are healing/HP from Dull Pain and defense from Invinc and TH.

However, since they recently increased the resist values of the passives and added secondary effects ResEn and ResEl are more desirable. If a player decides to take one and not the other, most recommend ResEn because the damage type it protects against (E/NE) is more common than F/C, and it's secondary effect (resistance to end drain) is thought to be more desirable than ResEl's--protection against slows. As it turns out, I have all three res passives one Invul tank and skipped ResEl on the other--there's not one 'right' way to do it.

By the way, RPD was given the secondary effect of def debuff resistance, as was Tough Hide, which in addition to stacking with the S/L resistance in TI and UY, is another reason it is strongly recommended by most.

People take Weave because defense is such an important part of the set's mitigation against non S/L damage, and with it you can use set bonuses to reach the soft-cap for some defense types. That will make your Invul tank very tough indeed, though it's not strictly necessary for most PvE content. I built for def bonuses on both my tanks, but so far have not taken the Fighting pool, so again, there's no one right way to do it.

And yes, you certainly can easily run five toggles on an invul if you wish, as long as you get Stamina and slot everything (attacks and toggles) for end reduction. Remember, Invul doesn't have a damage aura, which are particularly end intensive. And of course, adding IOs with +end and +recovery bonuses will certainly help, but you definitely DO NOT need the very expensive +recovery uniques to be viable with that many toggles.

Hope that helps!

1) Why skip the 2 Resists? Is there not enough energy or fire damage to protect from at end game? (50) That's 10% resist and 20-20% effect resist. (what is effect anyway)
It's a question of prioritizing. The benefit is relatively small and some people want more attacks or more pool powers. It depends what you're building for. If you're building for damage output, or for versatility, you might need other stuff. If you're building primarily for survival, they're a good idea. My invuln has all the passives.


2) Tough, i usually get. Is weave really wanted? That's 5 toggles running, can the end. be maintained easily? (without getting alot of sets) I mainly just run common recipes on builds.
eh, another one about priorities. I have Tough on my invuln but didn't have room for Weave. My shield tank has both. The endurance is manageable. You don't need a lot of expensive sets. All you really need is enough to get the performance you need in your attacks but also squeeze some end reduction in there. Frankenslotting is cheap and will easily accomplish that. My shield/axe tank has 7 toggles.

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Interesting replies. Thank you. Now i have a couple questions.

1) Why skip the 2 Resists? Is there not enough energy or fire damage to protect from at end game? (50) That's 10% resist and 20-20% effect resist. (what is effect anyway)

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Resist Energies is fairly useful for both it's end drain resist and the, admittedly small, E/N resistance and I do recommend getting it, but get it late in the build; it's less useful than other powers such as Tough/Weave. If you're building for an IO soft cap build it's a good place for another set of Reactive Armor as well.

Resist Elements is simply the least useful power in the entire set, it provides a small resistance to the rarest type of damage in the game. You're far better served by focusing on building defense; that will net you far greater durability than taking this power.

The damage types you'll encounter are overwhelmingly slanted toward Smash/Lethal damage, nearly 70% of all damage is of that type. Second most common, and it's a considerable drop, is Energy which may account for 15-20%. Fire/Cold collectively are very rare; about tied with Psi and none are really common enough to worry about... put all three together and they may amount to 7%. You'll have a significant amount of defense to all of these using the build design I've listed in my Soft Cap guide anyway. I tank Psi without any problem at all, and I have ZERO resistance to it. If I run into anything that poses a problem, well, that's what my inspiration tray is for.

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2) Tough, i usually get. Is weave really wanted? That's 5 toggles running, can the end. be maintained easily? (without getting alot of sets) I mainly just run common recipes on builds.

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Weave is actually more useful to you than Tough is; your defense is your first line of protection... an incoming attack must first beat your defense in order for your resistance to even matter. With this in mind we want the most defense we can get... an attack that doesn't penetrate your defense does absolutely ZERO damage. NO damage is always better than reduced damage (resistance). Fortunately as an Invuln we have three layers of protection.
<ul type="square">[*]Defense, which prevents an attack from hitting you at all[*]Resistance, which reduces the damage of an attack that penetrates your defense[*]Healing and HP boost in Dull Pain to recover from damage that gets past your first two layers[/list]Because of this our first priority is building as much defense as is practical, then building the resistance to survive damage that inevitably gets thru. Dull Pain is your "ouch, that hurt" power that heals you by a huge amount and simultaneously increases your hit points by up to 60%.

The endurance use is perfectly manageable on an Invuln, mine actually has quite limited recovery bonuses and neither of the recovery uniques at the moment... yeah, in a long battle I can run a bit low but it really hasn't been a huge issue. IO set slotting including some endred in your attacks and shields makes this manageable. Oh, I was able to manage decently with this character even back before IO's were introduced.

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The main reason i wanted to try Inv. was the lack of end. usage it looked to consume in mids. I'd hate to have to get more toggles to run if not needed. Thanks for all the replies.

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As I mentioned above, with a little endred slotting in your attacks first and your toggles second you'll be just fine. You do need Stamina, but I've only ever played one character who didn't so that's almost a given, particularly with a tank.

I always take stamina and 3 slot it. 2 end red and 1 perf shifter. (usually) My 2ndary is Stone Melee. I have 2 end red in each attack to keep them going, also.

I seen that Tough and Weave use .33 end each which is a good bit more than the toggles from Inv. and didn't know if 5% def was worth it. But i see Invinc. only has 1% so... Those just seem like little numbers when you see the resists are 10-15%.

As before, thanks for the inputs. Lots of knowledge coming my way.

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I always take stamina and 3 slot it. 2 end red and 1 perf shifter. (usually) My 2ndary is Stone Melee. I have 2 end red in each attack to keep them going, also.

I seen that Tough and Weave use .33 end each which is a good bit more than the toggles from Inv. and didn't know if 5% def was worth it. But i see Invinc. only has 1% so... Those just seem like little numbers when you see the resists are 10-15%.

As before, thanks for the inputs. Lots of knowledge coming my way.

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Invinc has 1% + 5% base for the first foe, which enhanced becomes around 9.4% defense. Each additional foe up to 10 gives 1% base, 1.6% enhanced. Maxed out at 10 foes, it provides 23.4% defense to everything but Psi. So don't underestimate the value of Invinc, it's one of the most important powers in the set.

The value of Weave, and Tough Hide, for that matter, is that they stack on Invinc's defense, and each provides 8.4% defense when enhanced. Even with one foe, 9.4% + 8.4% + 8.4% = 26% defense, a non-trivial amount, especially when you add other sources of defense like CJ or Hover, set bonuses, etc.

Also remember that as a general rule of thumb, 1% of defense is has about the same mitigation value as 2% of resistance, so again, don't underestimate the value of having that much defense on top of Invul's substantial S/L resists and DP. Yes, Tough and Weave are a little more costly endurance-wise, but well-slotted for end red, you should have no problem running them with Invuls toggles once you have Stamina.

Mr. Awesome i have a challenge for you, if you have the time.

I have the Invul/Stone tank i'd like to be uber with. He's fun to play. Would you take the time to post a "very fine" build? I'd be willing to pay you on Justice, if you have a toons there.

Just don't list purps because i refuse to buy them at the current prices. Anything else i will do. Influence isn't an issue with the other sets.

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Mr. Awesome i have a challenge for you, if you have the time.

I have the Invul/Stone tank i'd like to be uber with. He's fun to play. Would you take the time to post a "very fine" build? I'd be willing to pay you on Justice, if you have a toons there.

Just don't list purps because i refuse to buy them at the current prices. Anything else i will do. Influence isn't an issue with the other sets.

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This is close to my current build on CMA; I've still a few HO's left to change over. CMA grew up in issue 3 and was a Hami raider from issue 4 until the change in issue 9; I have over 300 HO's available to me on all my 50's and CMA at the time IO's were introduced had over 60 in his build. I've been gradually moving from that HO build to a set IO one; this is the most recent build I've drawn up so it's probably very close to what I have on Live right now.

I do recommend the Cytoskeleton HO's for Invincibility; there's really no better slotting available. I haven't priced them in the last year or so since I had more than I could use already; but they may be a bit pricey nowadays.

For the most part I'm using relatively inexpensive IO sets; the Reactive Armor and Smashing Haymaker are both pretty cheap. The Zinger is cheap, but the salvage to make them gets a bit pricey... Mocking Beratement has the advantage there as it's nearly free and uses relatively cheap salvage.

I noticed I had the Numina listed... I didn't remember getting it for this character but maybe I do have one; I know I've got one on several other characters.

Anyway, long story short (too late I know) the basics of this build should be pretty inexpensive; you'll obviously have to substitute defense IO's for the Cytos in Invincibility until level 47. I built a "bare bones" version as an "under level 30" exemplar build for about 10 million mid way thru issue 13; looking over the market today you should still be able to get the basics for 50 million.

Oh, I almost forgot; here's the build I'm playing:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Call Me Awesome: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Stone Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- RctvArm-EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(3), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(3), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(5), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(42)
Level 1: Stone Fist -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(34), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(37), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(37)
Level 2: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(5), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-Rchg(9)
Level 4: Heavy Mallet -- B'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(A), B'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(17), S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(17), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx(31), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(33), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A)
Level 8: Unyielding -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), RctvArm-ResDam(9), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(11), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(23)
Level 10: Taunt -- Zinger-Taunt(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(11), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(13), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(13), Zinger-Acc/Rchg(15), Zinger-Dam%(42)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(15)
Level 16: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(21)
Level 18: Invincibility -- HO:Cyto(A), HO:Cyto(19), HO:Cyto(19), Taunt-I(21)
Level 20: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(23), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(25), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(48)
Level 22: Fault -- Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(A), Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(25), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(27), Zinger-Dam%(27), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(43), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(46)
Level 24: Boxing -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx(43), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(43), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(29), DefBuff-I(29)
Level 28: Resist Physical Damage -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(31), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(31), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 30: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(33), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(33), RctvArm-EndRdx(46)
Level 32: Weave -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(37), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42), GftotA-Def/Rchg(46)
Level 35: Tremor -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Erad-Acc/Rchg(36), Dmg-I(36)
Level 38: Seismic Smash -- HO:Nucle(A), RechRdx-I(39), S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(39), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx(39), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(40), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Laser Beam Eyes -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(45), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48)
Level 47: Energy Torrent -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Centri(48)
Level 49: Resist Energies -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(50), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(50), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
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[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]2.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)[*]2.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)[*]2.5% DamageBuff(Fire)[*]2.5% DamageBuff(Cold)[*]2.5% DamageBuff(Energy)[*]2.5% DamageBuff(Negative)[*]2.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)[*]2.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)[*]18% Defense(Smashing)[*]18% Defense(Lethal)[*]3% Defense(Fire)[*]3% Defense(Cold)[*]16.4% Defense(Energy)[*]16.4% Defense(Negative)[*]3% Defense(Psionic)[*]10.5% Defense(Melee)[*]12.1% Defense(Ranged)[*]3% Defense(AoE)[*]3.6% Max End[*]14% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]4% Enhancement(Heal)[*]3% Enhancement(Stun)[*]21.3% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]140.6 HP (7.5%) HitPoints[*]MezResist(Immobilize) 14.3%[*]MezResist(Terrorized) 4.95%[*]9% (0.15 End/sec) Recovery[*]32% (2.5 HP/sec) Regeneration[*]3.76% Resistance(Fire)[*]1.26% Resistance(Cold)[/list]

Thank you, fine sir. I'm only 27 atm, maybe over double xp will get to 50 or very close. Holler if you need anything.

C_M_A, your links to the invul sites are not working for me

(QR)

Thought I'd throw in my personal opinion...

I took all nine powers from invuln. If you were gonna skip some, the first I'd throw out would be Unstoppable and Resist Energies, with probably Unstoppable going first. It's really situational and if you take Tough+Weave, you're probably gonna be pretty decent as a Tanker with probably no need for it. I haven't actually used it in forever (except when just messing around), but I like to have it just in case something goes wrong.

Wild Streak - Lv. 50(+3) Beast Mastery/Sonic Resonance Mastermind, Amnesty - Lv. 50 Staff Fighting/Dark Armor Stalker