Help! I can't decide between a DB/DA or DM/WP...!

Please help me Scrapper experts! I usually play Controllers, Defenders, or Blasters... but I want to play something a bit more straight-forward for awhile, that won't die in 2 hits!

I've played some Scrappers, who I love, (they're ~ lvl 20) and they're a DB/WP, and a DM/SD. Both are great fun, but I have another alty idea, and either DB/DA or DM/WP I think would work really well. I really want to play this character, so it needs to be able to survive and do decent damage, which I think all Scrappers are anyway... but are either of them 'broken' in any bad way? Are there certain powers in either set I MUST take, so that they work properly? Which ones do you think work better, are more fun, or just nice effects/ animations...?
Should I really wait for I16 for /Elec Armor? that sounds fun also...although I'm not so sure how that fits my character idea....

I'd love to hear any input from you! Thank you very much for your time and thoughts!

I had a lot of fun leveling my DM/WP. Its able to take some hits. Well, a lot of hits. And it exemps well. I can exemp to do a positron and loose all of my bonuses and not be weak. That's my out look on it. I never got far with any of my /DA scrapper attempts. I may try again one day.

I have a DM/WP brute, and the sets shine together. Willpower provides the passive resists/defense/regen to get you going, and DM gives you a nice little heal for those earlier levels where you don't feel particularly strong.

Also, don't forget that Negative Energy is rarely resisted, so the attacks feel quick and powerful! All in all, I approve of any DM/WP scrappers!

They have very different focuses in my opinion. A DM/WP will probably be a little tougher in most circumstances due to the -tohit from the primary, the added small heal, and wp being a little better at actually taking damage. Also, DM is primarily a single target specialist but very good at filling some holes in other secondaries. It has a heal, a fear, and a end regen, none of which are particularly needed by wp. Although, dm works with any secondary, i believe it's synergies are greater with SR (fills the no heal and no end management hole, -tohit and def work so well together) or Shield (same as SR but the addition of a soul drained shield charge is spectacular and it helps the lack of aoe in DM). DM likes hard single targets for the most part and wp likes a crowd, so while they work, they may not be the most synergistic pairing.

DB/DA is a good match as both are very good at large mobs. DB has very good AOE capability and a little knockdown for mitigation. /DA has a massive heal based on many mobs, two status effects, and decent resistances. The pairing would work well together with a little IO management for end usage. The main end drainer in /DA is Dark Regen, which takes a substantial part of your end bar.

In the end, both pairings will work since they are scrappers, but the DB/DA is probably the more unique and more synergistic of the 2 options. Hope it helps.

DM/WP is a beast...my favorite Scrapper combo.

These combos are two different playstyles.

With DM/WP, you basically set your toggles and just go kill with DM's attacks. You can basically spam any attack from the primary with no thought unless your constantly trying to line up enemies for Shadow Maul.

Never played DB or DA but I do know, you will have to pay attention to your Health and figure out the best time to use Dark Regen, and with DB you will be wanting to use your combos so you will also be paying attention to what attacks you use.

I think they will differ so much in playstyle thats it's too hard to compare...just go with what you want...i'm sure you won't be dissappointed.

Also...one key thing to keep in mind while choosing...Endurance management.
DM/WP will basically have no End issues, while DB/DA will.

Another thing to consider, in addition to all that has been said above, is that with Dark Armor toggles on, you won't be able to see your character. Specifically, the power "Cloak of Darkness", which is the only ability from */Dark Armor that gives +defense, turns your entire character model invisible and replaces it with a black shadowy blob.

If you're not bothered by that, then ignore me and take when has been said already into consideration.

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I think they will differ so much in playstyle thats it's too hard to compare...just go with what you want...i'm sure you won't be dissappointed.


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I have played both DM/WP (lvl 44) and DB/DA (lvl 50) and I'm gonna agree with these two statements. The playstyle for these two builds differ dramatically.

To me DB is just way more fun of a set to play. I'm highly tempted to roll a DB/dark, but with limited play time I'm vastly just leveling guys I already made.

Thank you all so much for the input. I really appreciate it!

I've decided to go with the DM/WP. It seems pretty good so far... of course I'm only level 3 right now...

Anyway, I was wondering, are there any powers I should make sure I take, or ones I should really avoid? And, I'm not sure, do I really NEED Fitness with the /WP... I think I took it on my DB/WP, but I'm just not sure it was neccesary.
Thanks for any more input!

you dont "NEED" fitness. if you take it, take it late and start on it after you get everything else you want. the only power you can skip in WP is the res. i normaly take it at 49 if at all. All of the powers are good with DM. confront is skipped by most. Touch of fear is playstyle option. dark consumtion is debatable. even more so if you happen to take stamina. as of the rest of the powers, take them. even the first tier (shadow punch). thats rare for scrapper sets.

No, no , NO!. With /WP, you take Quick Recovery at 20 and Stamina at 22, and you arrange your build by postponing Mind over Body and Heightened Senses until after Stamina is in place, at least.

You go with what you get the most of, which is regeneration --- more than enough to lift you through the early levels. And when you finally add those extra toggles, they will do something for you (SO levels) and won't wear you out. I've built nine WP characters with this philosophy and am building a tenth. The purely defensive toggles, the ones that aren't improving your regen or keeping you free from mezzes, simply ain't worth the effort before both QR and Stamina.

Early Stamina. Take the toggles when you feel you need 'em.

<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

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No, no , NO!. With /WP, you take Quick Recovery at 20 and Stamina at 22, and you arrange your build by postponing Mind over Body and Heightened Senses until after Stamina is in place, at least.

You go with what you get the most of, which is regeneration --- more than enough to lift you through the early levels. And when you finally add those extra toggles, they will do something for you (SO levels) and won't wear you out. I've built nine WP characters with this philosophy and am building a tenth. The purely defensive toggles, the ones that aren't improving your regen or keeping you free from mezzes, simply ain't worth the effort before both QR and Stamina.

Early Stamina. Take the toggles when you feel you need 'em.

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At level 22, I'm in striga island going toe to toe with family, warriors, the wolves and vamps. Before that, I'm in faultline, smacking around sands, castillo, noctorne, and kurse. I need mind over body for all that s/l and psi dmg comming. At 22, that power should have 4 slots ready for S0s and QR should have 3. You can get away with not taking it if you play on full teams all the time or if you maintain your insp tray or don't mind making the trips from the hospital. If you can't make it to a least 35 on a /wp with just QR then you are doing something wrong.

I always take Quick Recovery and Stamina at levels 20 and 22 repsectively...but I also don't pick a travel power so I'm able to pick up all the WP powers as soon as they are available.

I typically try to get from 11-15 on Positron if it can be assembled, and having S/L protection that's slightly better than an inspiration is not all that much help versus Vahz, CoT, and Clockwork. I do the same 15-20 via Synapse, where once again a dab of S/L protection is not all that needful, even if you could keep it going despite all the endurance drains.

Stamina ASAP makes sense under this a leveling regimen: especially since at DO levels, MoB does less for you than a single purple inspiration. I slot up RttC early, but don't take MoB till 24 and HS at 30, usually. I will not enjoy a character if I have to Rest after every spawn; or worse, have to wait for Rest to recharge. By doing this, you get out of that rut very easily.

<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

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I typically try to get from 11-15 on Positron if it can be assembled, and having S/L protection that's slightly better than an inspiration is not all that much help versus Vahz, CoT, and Clockwork. I do the same 15-20 via Synapse, where once again a dab of S/L protection is not all that needful, even if you could keep it going despite all the endurance drains.

Stamina ASAP makes sense under this a leveling regimen: especially since at DO levels, MoB does less for you than a single purple inspiration. I slot up RttC early, but don't take MoB till 24 and HS at 30, usually. I will not enjoy a character if I have to Rest after every spawn; or worse, have to wait for Rest to recharge. By doing this, you get out of that rut very easily.

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When doing that, it makes sense. But I think I've done those TFs at level maybe 4 of the 15 times I've been in level range. True, the values are not high at that level but to be ready for the content I stated, i will need to already have MoB with slots ready. It helps a lot more then oranges alone. I did the stamina at 22 with a /regen, once. I can't remeber but I was missing out on something doing that. And in comparasion to non /WP and /regen alts who, some would say, have to work in the fitness pool for stamina to ready at 22, why not use the fact that you don't *need* to go threw that to its full advantage?

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No, no , NO!. With /WP, you take Quick Recovery at 20 and Stamina at 22, and you arrange your build by postponing Mind over Body and Heightened Senses until after Stamina is in place, at least.


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You keep saying this and I never get why. I think you missing one of the best points about /WP. You don't need to work in Stamina by lvl 20 because you get Quick Recovery which is better! People live with just Stamina you will be fine with just QR. Take both at that lvl and then waiting to get MoB at lvl 24. Wow by lvl 25 you have an ok MoB and I have had one for 3 lvls now and guess what still no End issues.

I also find taking Stamina at lvl 22 a wast becuase you don't need that much end yet. Most tier 8 and tire 9 attacks are the ones that take the most end and your AoE but you should be spaming it at early lvls and most likey they still have a long recharge. Your attacking will take more end then your toggles even will.

Play how you want just stop tell people NO your doing it wrong when they are not. It is rude and it is not the only way to play /WP.

My Characters Deviont Art page Currently-reading Me Skydiving

No, of course, there is no "wrong" way to play, and that statement was a bit of hyperbole for the sake of emphasis.

The points I would impress on people are that:

1./ Before SO levels, the purely defensive toggles (Mind over Body and Heightened Senses) do so very little for you that you're better off leaving them off even if you take them most of the time. Inspirations are better and do not drain you or impair your ability to sustain combat.

2./ Yes, you can run the four Willpower toggles on QR alone. But in doing so, you negate the chief advantage of picking Willpower. Let's face it, the endurance mechanic is the least fun aspect of the game, and anything you can do to minimize its impact will make the game more enjoyable. Take the mez protection toggle (Indomitable Will) early, and take the regeneration toggle (Rise to the Challenge) early, but wait until Stamina is in place before picking up two more toggles, and your character will be more fun to play.

<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

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./ Before SO levels, the purely defensive toggles (Mind over Body and Heightened Senses)

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Your right but the thing is you don't get Heightened Senses till lvl 28 on a Scrapper so that is after SO. And I take MoB at lvl 22 which is right when you get SO. So it is the same thing but I get MoB good before you and with no End issusesa, and have the attacks I want.

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you negate the chief advantage of picking Willpower.

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Again I think you negated the Chief advantage of picking Willpwer if you take stamin at lvl 22. It is not because you can take your defense part it so you don't need to work in Stamina by lvl 20 so you can take a travel power easy and get the attacks you want when they come available. So you can slot them up and make them good with SO.

My Characters Deviont Art page Currently-reading Me Skydiving

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./ Before SO levels, the purely defensive toggles (Mind over Body and Heightened Senses)

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Your right but the thing is you don't get Heightened Senses till lvl 28 on a Scrapper so that is after SO. And I take MoB at lvl 22 which is right when you get SO. So it is the same thing but I get MoB good before you and with no End issusesa, and have the attacks I want.

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you negate the chief advantage of picking Willpower.

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Again I think you negated the Chief advantage of picking Willpwer if you take stamin at lvl 22. It is not because you can take your defense part it so you don't need to work in Stamina by lvl 20 so you can take a travel power easy and get the attacks you want when they come available. So you can slot them up and make them good with SO.

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This. I really don't need Stamina at 22 considering I'm just now able to 3 slot QR with SOs and I have a mere two toggles running. If you are grabbing Stamina at 22, it means you are putting off other powers you could of had already until 24, 30 and 35. No thanks. QR with any needed end slotting on other powers, ie attacks, more than covers you and you may be able to skip even that small amount of end reduc slotting depending on the primary.

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2./ Yes, you can run the four Willpower toggles on QR alone. But in doing so, you negate the chief advantage of picking Willpower. Let's face it, the endurance mechanic is the least fun aspect of the game, and anything you can do to minimize its impact will make the game more enjoyable. Take the mez protection toggle (Indomitable Will) early, and take the regeneration toggle (Rise to the Challenge) early, but wait until Stamina is in place before picking up two more toggles, and your character will be more fun to play.

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I didn't do this, and had a decent amount of fun. I finally picked up Stamina around 35, which took me from needing occasional blues (or just to stop attacking for a moment) to pretty much never running out of end. I guess I preferred to feel more survivable at the lower levels, and be able to use some of the early slots on defenses. Mileage, vary, etc.