Demon Summoning level 18 power

I'm sure there's a ton of threads about this already. I'm also sure the devs have probably already decided what the powers will be, but if there's even a chance, I want to put my idea out there.

The level 18 power is something that is unique to each MM primary set, and adds a lot of flavor to the sets. As such, I believe it is important that the level 18 power contribute to the theme of demon summoning appropriately.

I feel that demon summoning should have a sense of danger to it. Demons aren't like robots or mindless zombies that do exactly as you command. They are not thugs working for you, loyal soldiers, or disciplined ninjas either. The level 18 power is the chance to bring out that sense of danger.

My first idea: Make it a temporary pet summon that is immensely powerful. Imagine IO'd brute or blaster type of raw destructive power. Now to balance the power and bring out the "danger," have the pet turn hostile at the end of its "lifespan." Instead of vanishing, it breaks free and turns on the summoner. Another option here is that the demon has a chance to summon as a hostile targeting the summoner. A third option is to have it always summon "rogue" and just kill anything it sees.

My second idea: Make it a buff (not unlike serum) which can be put on any henchman. This buff turns the pet into something unstoppably powerful, but incurs one of the three hostile options listed above.

Demon summoning isn't for kids, it's for people with a deathwish. Even if my ideas aren't good enough, or are too difficult to implement, Devs, please incorporate the "danger" in this set.

EDIT:

I guess I wasn't thinking about the team aspect of this, with regards to what would happen when the corruptor or dominator get plowed by accident and the MM gets a quick boot from the team.

The latest revision follows (inspiration from Memphis_Bill):

Idea one: Temporary summon as last time, but requires hefty sacrifice in the form of health, regen, and/or recovery. Option two is periodic damage while the pet is alive. Option three is a reverse bodyguard mode accompanied by a taunt aura: Pet draws additional aggro and you take some of the pets damage. Perhaps a crash like the god modes? Still very powerful, still very dangerous.

Idea two: Much like the first idea two. A powerful buff for a henchman with the same drawbacks outlined in the revised idea one.

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Interesting idea.

Amy Jonnson was bugged for a while to where if you were on a mixed team she would spawn as rogue and would heal, buff, and attack everyone on the team equally.

But that was a bug and NOT intended to happen.

The problem I see with this idea is the relative strength of the risky summoning. If the demon is too powerful you run the risk of being defeated by your own power. If the demon is not powerful enough then there is really no point to it turning hostile at all, and would make it a gimped power to boot.

I agree that demon summoning should have a risk factor involved, but I'm not convinced this is the best way to do it.

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That's great... if you never want to be invited to teams.

Thematically, yeah, it fits to have it break free and go nuts, i agree. But gameplay wise - not even mechanics, just gameplay wise - I'd probably end up deleting a character if I'm low on health, just finished a tough battle and suddenly *wham* killed by my own pet because it's about to desummon. A few times with that (or being booted from a team because of it) and yeah, it'd probably be an unplayed, at best, or deleted at worst character.

That said, you can perhaps touch on the flavor for the summon in other ways - for instance:

- The summon is powerful - more powerful than a lot of level 18 buffs in some way - but it costs you. Your max HP and END are lowered while it's there, and the summon takes 25% of your health as a "sacrifice" at the beginning. (Yes, it does heal back.)

- As it despawns, it charges you - but the binding you used to summon it banishes it back where it came from. HP/END are returned.

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[ QUOTE ]
The problem I see with this idea is the relative strength of the risky summoning. If the demon is too powerful you run the risk of being defeated by your own power. If the demon is not powerful enough then there is really no point to it turning hostile at all, and would make it a gimped power to boot.

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This is why I say it should be immensely powerful. I agree that if the risk isn't enough that you could be defeated by the power, then the risk is meaningless. Masterminds are one of the sturdiest AT's in the game thanks to bodyguard mode. Played right, it will be survivable; otherwise, bring wakies.

Think about the "god mode" powers with huge crashes. True enough that the power itself won't kill you, but if there are still mobs around when you crash, you're going to faceplant.

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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

If it goes nuts indiscriminately Demon Summoners will be persona non grata on teams. If it's THAT powerful you'd be foolish not to take the power, but teams would be very unlikely to want you around.

I would be very annoyed if I hit Rest after a tough fight and my MM teammate's pet one-shots me.

Bill's suggestion is probably the most workable way to do it.

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QR

a sacrifice of some sort to summon a really powerful demon would be really cool.

IMO, you should target one of your existing minions, and sacrifice it (and not be able to resummon it until the big guy is gone), as well as taking a significant amount of non bodyguard-shared damage. I like the idea of lowering your overall HP for the time too.

Another idea, what if your special summon is made by violently mashing your current summons into one huge flesh and fire filled conglomeration (think Jabba the Hutt on fire). You sacrifice your pets for this summon, and the more you had, the more faster, healthier, more accurate, and more powerful he is. Kind of like putting all of your eggs into one basket.

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hmm, maybe something else

sacrifice one to make the rest stronger, increased defense/resistance, to-hit, damage, the higher tier you sacrifice, the more powerful the buff is?

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No

Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo

I think you underestimate our fools, sir.

Why /duel is a bad idea

Sacrificing an existing minion works, as well (and in a way, exists with necromancy - though it does let you resummon the dead pet.)

I'd be wary of "Sacrifice them all for one really big one," though, as it would cause problems for you - not only are more pets more effective HP for you (bodyguard) but they redirect aggro from you as well.

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I like the ideas I'm seeing, but I think it needs to stay away from sacrifice, and steer more towards risk.

Sacrificing pets for a bigger pet may be cool, but not the theme I was going for. That doesn't present risk to the summoner.

Sacrificing HP and regen, taking more damage, or hostile summons are risky. This is more the path I would like to pursue.

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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

[ QUOTE ]
Sacrificing pets for a bigger pet may be cool, but not the theme I was going for. That doesn't present risk to the summoner.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you could sacrifice the pet AND require some of your own HP combined with the reverse-bodyguard setting. Plus, block the ability to summon any other demons.

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Now to balance the power and bring out the "danger," have the pet turn hostile at the end of its "lifespan." Instead of vanishing, it breaks free and turns on the summoner.

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Sorry, but I just have to make this comment: WoW warlock infernal pets, anyone? (For those who have never played it, they're a big really powerful pet the class in question gets at max level, that acts pretty much exactly as suggested above)

Players hate them there too, though they have their uses. And hey, it'd still be more useful than Repair. Personally I like some of the other ideas suggested here more though.

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I say you sacrifice all 6 pets, for 1 minutes of DESTRUCTION.

900 second recharge, acompanied with a end nuke when you summon.

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@Mechaniker
Official Old Angry German Guy of CoV.
My Characters: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=247787

What about a 'binding circle' type power. Puts a circle on the floor, inside which your demons get buffed in some way. Pretty powerful buff but... none of your demons can enter or exit the circle once it is established (until it times out or you dismiss it). So, you have to use it at the right times and make sure that your demons are positioned correctly.

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Always remember, we were Heroes.

[ QUOTE ]
What about a 'binding circle' type power. Puts a circle on the floor, inside which your demons get buffed in some way. Pretty powerful buff but... none of your demons can enter or exit the circle once it is established (until it times out or you dismiss it). So, you have to use it at the right times and make sure that your demons are positioned correctly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thematically appropriate, but mechanically it would not be very usesful as you could only use it for one encounter and you're assuming demons all have good ranged attacks. I'm thinking just have a big buff.

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If we have to go with "danger," then let's keep in line with the danger that comes with powers like Detonator and Noxious Gas - big return for the cost of endangering your henchmen. So, why not have this be a temporary buff to one henchman which turns it rogue (either right off the bat or at the end), but has it ONLY target your own henchmen. Not you, not other players, not other player's henchmen. Just your own henchmen. Danger, yes, but not such danger that your own power can KILL you. Strip your of your offence and defence, yes. Kill you, not so much.

Personally, though, I'm not a big fan of this type of "danger." I'd much rather have a character well in control and go in a different direction. Have a power that infects enemies with a demon. Single-target only, acts like a confuse, but when the enemy dies, a demon spawns off his body and follows you around for a short while. Depending on how strong we want this demon to be, we could either treat it like Soul Extraction, where one powerful demon follows you around and is controllable, or like Gang War, where you can Possess frequently and easily amass two-three weaker impish demons at a time.

Or even something more traditional - put a powerful fire aura on one henchman that does a LOT of AoE damage, but also does damage to the henchman in question at a fast rate.

There are options

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<QR>

How about instead of the theme of "danger" or "sacrifice" you use the theme "costs and balances"?

I'm not a MM player so I don't know how useful this idea might be:

Sacrificial Circle (toggle with moderate recharged...like 15-20 sec) Upon activating the circle, a large demon is summoned. Think huge demon, so large only his waist and above is summoned. This summon would be immobile but have long reaching melee attacks and some strong ranged ones. When you activate the toggle, a cost will incur on all nearby summons. The more of your summons that share the cost, the easier it will be on you and your summons. If there is only one summon, all the cost will weigh on you and the 1 pet.

Upon turning off the toggle, a small chunk of HP and regen off yourself.

The summoning costs I'm not sure of. It could be -res debuffs, damage, damage debuffs, a mez, straight up damage or a combo of 2 of them.

It'd be interesting if it was a mez like hold or stun. If there are pets around, they would get the mez and if there were few or 1 pet, they would have mezzes stacked for longer durations. If no pets are around you might just mez yourself AND lose the HP and regen for deactivating it.

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