You should rename this guide "Secrets of the Masters Revealed!" It's simple stuff like this that makes all the difference. Well done.
Highest bid takes pairs with lowest sale price if bid price is equal or higher than sale price.
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Then a buyer tells the market what the most is that they are willing to buy an item for (the buy bid or just bid). If the bid is the same or higher than the offer, then the market completes the sale at the bid price (minus 10% for the market fee).
Ill repeat this because its so important to the rest of the guide. If I offer an item for S inf, and you bid B inf to buy it, as long as B is greater or equal to S, the sale will complete and Ill receive B inf (minus 10%).
Heres the most important part
if someone else had offered up the same item for S 1 inf, then that person would have been the one to make the sale for B -10% inf.
Corollary to this is that if two people put up a sales offer at the same S Inf, then the market randomly selects which bidder wins.
So, youre goal as the seller is to have the lowest offer price when the buy bid is placed.
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In this area of the guide you need to stress that the HIGHEST bid prices currently placed wins the item if it is higher than the reserve price.
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So, I Just List Everything for 1 Then, Right?
Well ... No. That would be a bad idea. The reason is that if someone comes along and puts in a Bid at 2 Inf, then they would win your item and buy it for that piddly amount.
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If they are the currently highest bid.
You forgot to say that if you're new to the game, you probably won't be able to buy friggin' common salvage unless you AE farm for it (for the inf to buy it, I mean)...
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You forgot to say that if you're new to the game, you probably won't be able to buy friggin' common salvage unless you AE farm for it (for the inf to buy it, I mean)...
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No he didn't. That is a terrible misconception spread by those who are unable to grasp the concept "Go hunt. Kill skullz."
If you play the game you will find items. Some of those items are common salvage. You can then sell those common salvages on the market. Then you can buy common salvage on the market.
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You forgot to say that if you're new to the game, you probably won't be able to buy friggin' common salvage unless you AE farm for it (for the inf to buy it, I mean)...
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No he didn't. That is a terrible misconception spread by those who are unable to grasp the concept "Go hunt. Kill skullz."
If you play the game you will find items. Some of those items are common salvage. You can then sell those common salvages on the market. Then you can buy common salvage on the market.
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I was a part of the "Kill Skullz" movement and I do miss it... the problem is how are you supose to be crafting your nifty enhs when you get 10 pieces of salvage worth 200inf on WW/BM and need another 10 that are worth 100k+?
They should all be of easy access to lowbies BECAUSE they are common. They should be able to do exactly what you just said, but they can't. Not if they try to actually play the game beyond Atlas Park's AE's lobby and the sweet spot behind perky Ms Liberty. For those who choose the above mentioned path of farming it is only natural to pay a gazilion inf for a handfull of common salvage, since they don't get 'em as a drop and cannot trade them for tickets.
I just think it's not fair. And I know fair has nothing to do with it. But it still not... nice, y'know?
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They should all be of easy access to lowbies BECAUSE they are common. They should be able to do exactly what you just said, but they can't.
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This simply isn't true. I don't know what to say. You can street sweep and get expensive salvage. You can go to the AE and ticket roll for 8 tickets each. You can just play the game and find that salvage.
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I was a part of the "Kill Skullz" movement and I do miss it... the problem is how are you supose to be crafting your nifty enhs when you get 10 pieces of salvage worth 200inf on WW/BM and need another 10 that are worth 100k+?
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If that is your experience I suggest not taking any elevators, crossing any streets, and please don't use the garbage disposal.
Smurphy: Thanks for pointing out the missing info on the highest bid. I made some changes to make that clearer.
HaruoSan: Actually my point here is about selling, not buying. But to address your comment, I have two low-20's characters with about 300 Million Inf each. Neither one has set foot in an AE mission. Even my non-Marketer characters have a few million they're carrying about just by playing the game and paying attention to how I sell things.
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HaruoSan: Actually my point here is about selling, not buying. But to address your comment, I have two low-20's characters with about 300 Million Inf each. Neither one has set foot in an AE mission. Even my non-Marketer characters have a few million they're carrying about just by playing the game and paying attention to how I sell things.
[/ QUOTE ]On the other hand, I believe the winner of the last level 10 challenge only had about 300k inf. The rules of the level 10 challenge are much more in line with what the average player will expect to see while playing than going by what an "intelligent" person can earn.
With current sell rates on items balanced by patrol exp, I suspect that a new challenge would show that the average player can expect about 400k by level 10. Common salvage spiking to 100k means they can "only" craft 2 or 3 Common IOs by level 10.
That said, "400k-ish by level 10" (because I am not smart in how I play nor sell), was enough for my Dom that by level 16 I was able to buy and craft a full set of volley fire, two from the paralytic set, my level 15 freebie from the tutorial, and I picked up a few "sell at below crafting price" common IOs for my holds and immobilizes. I didn't even act smart, I paid "buy it nao" prices, but I was willing to walk away and come back the next day (but for some reason I wasn't willing to leave a bid up overnight, through sheer stupidity). I did get lucky and find a couple pieces of salvage I needed by way of drops. And I would check prices +/- 5 levels of myself. That was the extent of my trying to be smart with shopping.
I'm not as gung-ho as you are about it La Baldera, but I'm also not seeing the whole "new players are screwed" thing. I'm a marketing moron who mostly shovels money to smarter sellers rather than taking it in for myself. But I can make plenty of IOs on my characters before level 20. More than anyone really has a good reason to considering how low the bonus numbers are compared to the crafting costs.
Edited for typo and name.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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On the other hand, I believe the winner of the last level 10 challenge only had about
300k inf. The rules of the level 10 challenge are much more in line with what the average
player will expect to see while playing than going by what an "intelligent" person can earn.
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As somebody who actually ran the L10 Challenge (and under-performed - I didn't pick
Arcane foes to maximize those drops, and had some crappy RNG luck besides), I'll point
out that I was *still* able to afford a full set of L15 IO's (projected to L12) for that toon...
IIRC, I bought all but a few of the recipes for that (at L10), and reported such in the thread.
I have little doubt that the so called "average" player could only benefit from the material
presented here. Folks possessing any sort of aptitude at all, will surely excel.
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
Exactly. No need to keep bringing in the examples of "I have plenty of sub 20s with millions". I think that sets people's expectations off, and then they think "I don't have millions, I can't afford XYZ".
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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I was a part of the "Kill Skullz" movement and I do miss it... the problem is how are you supose to be crafting your nifty enhs when you get 10 pieces of salvage worth 200inf on WW/BM and need another 10 that are worth 100k+?
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If that is your experience I suggest not taking any elevators, crossing any streets, and please don't use the garbage disposal.
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I feel the need to defend myself and I don't even know why... can you please enlighten me as to why you have tried to be offensive on the above commentary?
Readdressing the matter at hand, the guide does offer good strategy for marketing, but my point is still that a newcomer will get a rougher time than he had to (market/salvage wise) because of the current pricing of common salvage. And I'm not talking about experienced players with new characters, I am talking about new players.
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I was a part of the "Kill Skullz" movement and I do miss it... the problem is how are you supose to be crafting your nifty enhs when you get 10 pieces of salvage worth 200inf on WW/BM and need another 10 that are worth 100k+?
[/ QUOTE ]
If that is your experience I suggest not taking any elevators, crossing any streets, and please don't use the garbage disposal.
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I feel the need to defend myself and I don't even know why... can you please enlighten me as to why you have tried to be offensive on the above commentary?
Readdressing the matter at hand, the guide does offer good strategy for marketing, but my point is still that a newcomer will get a rougher time than he had to (market/salvage wise) because of the current pricing of common salvage. And I'm not talking about experienced players with new characters, I am talking about new players.
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only damaging effect I can see with new players is getting pulled into a AE farm and go from 1-20 in less than a hour. They have no clue about powers, or simple game play or anything else in the game. No one helps then, they are told just soak up the xp. they are the ones in trouble and if your helping them learn nothing, your are a big part of the problem.
above guide is here to help the ones that play the game and now just get PL to 50 then left on the side of the road looking for hand outs.
new plays are only hindered by those that dont show them the ropes
Lead Squirrel at Dr. E Spider robotic site #643
Nothing saids its your spot like an ourob. Portal dropped on the ground.
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Readdressing the matter at hand, the guide does offer good strategy for marketing, but my point is still that a newcomer will get a rougher time than he had to (market/salvage wise) because of the current pricing of common salvage. And I'm not talking about experienced players with new characters, I am talking about new players.
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You are still incorrect.
If that new player is running normal content, they will be getting salvage drops. They can either use those drops to craft what they need or sell them on the market if they don't need them. If they sell them, they can then use that influence to buy the ones they actually need.
If that new player is running AE missions, then they can simply walk over to the ticket vendor and make a few rolls for 8 tickets each until they get the salvage they need. There are only 6 tech and 6 arcane common salvage in each of the 3 level ranges, so it will only take a limited number of random rolls to get what they need. They then sell the leftovers on the market for influence.
It's not rocket science.
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I was a part of the "Kill Skullz" movement and I do miss it... the problem is how are you
supose to be crafting your nifty enhs when you get 10 pieces of salvage worth 200inf on WW/BM
and need another 10 that are worth 100k+?
[/ QUOTE ]
The simple, and obvious (hence the derision you're getting) point, is this:
A> If salvage costs are typically 100K+ (as you seem to think)
B> And, you're running content and getting drops, or rolling AE tickets for salvage
A + B = It stands to reason, logically, that selling those items for awhile will net you
the very 100K+ influence you seem worried about.
Or put another way, you can't (on average over time) have *both* conditions you say:
ie. pieces of salvage continually worth 200 AND pieces of salvage continually worth 100K+,
so once again, it stands to reason that when/if those conditions apply you could also Buy
for 200 and sell for 100K as easily as the reverse situation which you imply is the norm.
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
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I was a part of the "Kill Skullz" movement and I do miss it... the problem is how are you supose to be crafting your nifty enhs when you get 10 pieces of salvage worth 200inf on WW/BM and need another 10 that are worth 100k+?
[/ QUOTE ]
If that is your experience I suggest not taking any elevators, crossing any streets, and please don't use the garbage disposal.
[/ QUOTE ]
I feel the need to defend myself and I don't even know why... can you please enlighten me as to why you have tried to be offensive on the above commentary?
Readdressing the matter at hand, the guide does offer good strategy for marketing, but my point is still that a newcomer will get a rougher time than he had to (market/salvage wise) because of the current pricing of common salvage. And I'm not talking about experienced players with new characters, I am talking about new players.
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As FourSpeed said you can't complain about salvage being super cheap and super expensive at the same time. The only way that is conceivably possible is if you had the worst luck in the universe. Kinda like being struck by lightning 13,000 times in a row.
My suggestion was solely for your health and longevity. Clearly you are a cursed man who has brought on the wrath of higher powers. There is no other possible explanation to why or how you could be only finding salvage that is worthless and only needing salvage that is so expensive. Please, for the sake of your life, don't go anywhere near a garbage disposal.
Common Salvage ticket rolls cost 8 tickets each. There are 6 common salvage possible in each choice of outcome. Surely you can get enough tickets to get several worth the 100,000 you say you need.
If you are still unable to obtain those salvage you need send me a tell in game. I will gladly roll a toon on whichever server. Play for 15 minutes and roll a few common salvage.
Yes, I am rather known in RL for having the worst luck on the universe. Gladly I will probably be rewarded on the afterlife for been a cosmic joke... ¬¬
This guide is intended to help the player who doesnt really want to play the market mini-game in CoX. By understanding some basic info on how the market works both in terms of the programming rules as well as the psychology of players, you should be able to increase your profits on selling the salvage and recipe drops you accumulate.
First of all this is stuff any Marketer is probably already aware of (or should be). Second, you know as well as I do that a large percentage of our player base wont read a guide like this; so theyll still be dropping items for 100 Inf. 
This guide isnt really for anyone who wants to get hardcore about making money on the consignment markets. There are plenty of other guidelines and helpful hints for that in the Market forums. If you are one of those types, dont worry that Im sharing too many secrets.
This guide also isnt for people who want to buy things on the cheap. Although you could probably reverse some of the logic here and be able to lower your purchase prices a bit as well.
How Does Bid Matching Work?
There are plenty of guides that go in depth on the basics of how the consignment markets work. To summarize, a seller item tells the market what the lowest amount is that theyll accept for their item (I call this the sale offer or just offer for short). Then a buyer tells the market what the most is that they are willing to buy an item for (the buy bid or just bid). The highest bid will be matched with the current lowest offer. If the highest bid is equal or greater than the lowest offer, then the market completes the sale at the [u]bid[u] price (minus 10% for the market fee).
Ill repeat this because its so important to the rest of the guide. If I offer an item for S inf, and you bid B inf to buy it, as long as your B is the highest outstanding bid and is greater or equal to my S (assuming I'm offering at the lowest price), the sale will complete and Ill receive B inf (minus 10%).
Heres the most important part as a seller ... if someone else had offered up the same item for S 1 inf, then that person would have been the one to make the sale for B -10% inf.
Corollary to this is that if two people put up a sales offer at the same S Inf, then the market randomly selects which bidder wins.
So, youre goal as the seller is to have the lowest offer price when the buy bid is placed.
So, I Just List Everything for 1 Then, Right?
Well ... No. That would be a bad idea. The reason is that if someone if the highest bidder had only offered 2 Inf they would win your item and buy it for that piddly amount. Now if youre just dumping stuff on the market, you may not care. But if youre reading this, then youre probably trying to make a little money off what you sell. So a bid higher than 1 is going to be in your better interest.
Oh, Ok. Then I List Everything for 1 Less Than I Want to Make, Right?
Well No again. Remember that the lowest offer is matched to the highest bid. So if you list for S Inf and I list for S-1 Inf, Ill win. When the price you want to make is very close to the going price for that item, listing for one under your target will almost guarantee that you get undercut by other offers for a long time.
So Somewhere in the Middle Then?
Exactly. And preferably toward the bottom end of the middle. But before we go further, lets understand the human aspect of this. There are patterns to how the average buyer bids.
Note: Marketers know these patterns too and so usually come up with their own oddball pattern on how they bid for things. You wont use this info to trip up the experienced market player. Thankfully, there arent that many of us in the grand scheme of things; so the following still applies.
Avoid the Void
Among the Marketer community, there is an axiom that you Never buy or sell for a value ending in zero. The reason is pretty simple. Most people who dont think about how this system works will list offers and bids for a round number. So if Im selling something that has a market value of 10,000; I will assume that most neophyte sellers are listing theirs for 10,000. If I list for 9,999 then Ill win the bid matching before they do.
The same goes for buying. If Im putting in a bid for a 10K item and I post my bid at 10,001 then Ill win before other buyers who are only offering 10,000.
Counting by 5s
The first bidding pattern to keep in mind is that most people when they are creeping up on a bid price will do so in increments of 5s (either 500 or 5,000 depending on the total cost). In other words, if a buyer bids 10,000 and doesnt win, their next bid is probably going to be 15,000. So, if you want to make 15K, then any offer between 10,001 and 14,999 is going to be your best bet. Of course, for every rule, there is an exception...
First the 1s, Then the 2s, Then the 3s...
There is an oddball bidding pattern that youll see a lot. If an item goes for 10s of thousands of Inf, you will see bids where all of the digits are the same. So youll see bids for 11,111 then 22,222 then 33,333, etc. Why? you ask. Laziness. Its easier to place your bid by just bouncing your finger on one number key for the proper number of digits than having to change which keys youre pressing.
Sometimes youll see something similar, but with 5s at the end from time to time as well (e.g. 10,555 then 15,555 then 20,555). But that isnt as common.
But How Much is it Worth?
One thing that we see fairly often on the markets is that people forget that salvage and recipes have an intrinsic value. That value is set by what a vendor is willing to pay you for the item. If your goal is to make a healthy profit on your item, you need to be aware that for some things, selling to the vendors makes more than on the markets.
For salvage, the table looks like this:
Common: 250 Inf
Uncommon: 1000 Inf
Rare: 5000 Inf
For recipes, the calculation is a little harder. This is because the vendor value for a recipe varies by level range. For Common IO recipes, divide the cost to craft the recipe (listed in the info on the recipe) by the following factors:
Level 1-25 : crafting / 8
Level 26-40: crafting / 5.3
Level 41-50: crafting / 4
For other IO recipes (i.e. the non-common or set IO recipes), the calculation is a little easier:
Uncommon: 100 * level
Rare: 200 * level
Ok! Enough Theory!
Youre probably about full of numbers and patterns now and wondering how to apply it. Well, the answer is simple, you want to find a sales offer (S) that allows you to make a sale for your target amount (T) while avoiding nasty bidding patterns that can foil your plans and being aware of not selling too short. Lets use some practical examples to help out. In each case Im going to assume youre selling a piece of common salvage.
A) You check the last 5 and see that sales vary from 20,000 to 30,000 Inf. You just want to make a tidy profit without being too greedy; so you set your target to be 25,000. Because of the By 5s rule, you know you want to be over 20,001 and the 1-2-3 rule says you want to be above 22,222; so you list for 22,223.
Note: In reality, you should choose some random value above 22,222. The reason is that we ebil marketers know you may try cheating by "just 1" and swoop in to save ourselves 4,998 inf by using that against you. Make the random increase above that and it's not worth the time anymore.
B) The last 5 values range from 50 to 100 inf. DONT SELL IT! Take it to a vendor and make 250 since the going market rate is below the vendor price.
C) Last 5 ranges from 25,000 to 200,000 with most of the sales around 100,000 Wait. Dont do anything. Watch to see if things calm down a little. It could be that someone came along and just bid really high because they have deep pockets. Or that 25k bid could have been a lowball that someone is going to flip around and sell for 200k. Unless you know the market well, you cant tell. If you really dont want to take the time, offer something between 22,223 and 24,999 and see how you do.
That last example is why most marketing guides tell you not to use the Last 5 to judge selling or buying prices. And theyre absolutely right if you want to take the time to track market trends on your item(s). However, if youre reading this (and I hope youre still reading) you probably dont care to take the time; so use the Last 5 as well as you can.
Now Go Forth and Profitfy
I hope this helps some of you who arent really into the whole marketing game to understand a little bit about how to make more money from your sales. If you have questions or if this intrigues you to travel the dim path to ebilness, join us over at the Market forums. Were a pretty friendly group (as long as youre not trying to complain that prices are too high for purple recipes).