SD Scrapper vs Tanker ???


Big_cuban

 

Posted

Am I wrong in thinking that the only real differences in taking Shield Defense on a Scrapper vs a Tanker is that it costs a bit more for a scrapper to reach the same defensive levels as the tanker and that the Tanker has a higher HP cap?

If that is true, since it is possible for Scrappers these days to hit the lower end tanker HP levels using Accolades and IOs does that mean that a well IO'd out shield scrapper would make a decent tank substitute?

Last night a friend was asking me these questions regarding rolling up a new Shield character (Scrapper vs Tanker) and while I wasn't certain I had to admit that I didn't see much difference in the two options once the character hits 50 and starts seriously getting into IOs.

While the Scrapper would never be able to tank a task force, for casual playing I can certainly see a IO'd out shield scrapper being better off as the "tank" for a group over say, a Fire tanker outfitted with just SOs.

Am I missing something in all this or is SD the only Scrapper secondary which can come close to matching the Tanker version of the same powerset?


 

Posted

Tanking is not just an issue of being able to survive a hit. It's also the ability to attack hate from the enemies, something which a Scrapper will never be able to match. Gauntlet is just too awesome at. The only teams I've actually had that ran well with a Scrapper "tanking" were generally teams that didn't have much need for anyone to be tanking in the first place (generally by having boatloads of +def and +res buffs being tossed about).

Remember that, even if you get Tanker level hp with massive amounts of +hp, your self heals (including green insps) will still be using the base value of your HP, you'll never be able to get the same level of resistance (75% cap v. 90%), and you'll never be able to get aggro as well (every Tanker attack taunts nearby enemies; even if you've got a taunt aura, you can't make up for that).


 

Posted

On most teams in most situations a tanker isn't needed. At that point a melee toon that doesn't die is plenty good. Now if it is required that a damage sponge sit in the spawn and HOLD agro then a scrapper probably won't cut it.

Plenty of other Scrapper Secondaries are very sturdy on their own and file the role of alpha taker.

Edit - oopsie - posting during a database migration.

Love my tankers, as well as all my 50's, but I know in 99% of the game you can replace X with Y and be just as successful.


Poisonous Ice 50 Ice/Rad
Icy Jax 50 Ice/SS
Jaxon Penn 50 Shield/Mace
Cpt Clax 50 Thugs/Dark
Lady BlackIce 50 Dark/Cold
Lady Black Ice 50 Dark/Ice
Bella Jax 50 Storm/Sonic
Operative Jax 50 SoA
Level 50 Trick Arrow Alts
TA/A-Plant/TA-Bots/TA
Level 50 Claws Scrappers
SR-Regen-DA-Invul-WP-FA

 

Posted

Once both are soft capped, the tanker still has more life and also better resistances from Deflection, Tough.. etc, to mitigate the damage that pass through his defense.

Also dont forget that to soft cap his defense the scrapper has to make a few more sacrifices in its IO build.

There's still a large difference between both of them. But you're right on this point : once both are soft capped the SD scrapper is a bit closer to a SD tanker than a WP or INV scrapper is to a WP or INV tanker for example. (The reason is that WP never gets to any cap regen/defense/resistance, and only the INV tanker can reach the S/L resistance cap of 90%, the scrapper cant)


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
On most teams in most situations a tanker is needed. At that point a melee toon that doesn't die is plenty good. now if it is required that a damage sponge sit in the spawn and HOLD agro then a scrapper probably won't cut it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hahahahahah.


 

Posted

While I agree 100% with Umbral's comment above--tanking really is more about aggro management than about survival, and tanks are far, far better at it than scrappersl--a Shield Defense scrapper really does make a good "poor man's tank."

For a scrapper, mind you.

Mine has been the sole "tank" on numerous ITFs, Numina's TF, and a couple respec trials. The critical features of Shield Defense in this regard are these: AAO is a good taunt aura, and Shield Charge just generates a gazillion joules of hate.

Nothing in my experience--short of a real tanker--can pull enemies out of my AAO aura and off of me after I've hit them with Shield Charge, and I've been able to leverage this fact to good effect on task forces.

But remember: I can't do things like taunt 5 enemies off a blaster from 60' away, or punchvoke enemies off an Invuln scrapper on whom they've already fixated.

So clearly my scrapper is no tank; nevertheless teams run pretty well with him at point, and if I've got me, I don't consider a tank crucial to team makeup.

Very nice to have, mind you, but not crucial because of my scrapper's personal aggro magnetism.

Edit: I type like a freakin' monkey.


 

Posted

Shield tankers have higher HP and higher resistances. It's a big difference in mitigation, especially S/L - in their tier9s, the scrapper will be at 2400hp and 75% res, while the tanker will be at 3200hp and 90% res. That means the tanker can take three times as much punishment.

Getting to the softcap and to the DDR cap much easier also allow more room for different IO bonuses. Shield Tankers are very similar to SR scrappers in that way, comparing both to Shield Scrappers.

On the other hand, Shield Charge does the same damage on both ATs.


 

Posted

I understand about the Agro issue (although AAO's aura does have some of that built in) but essentially, this whole point of inquiry came from my discussion with my friends over the one friend's new character and the contention held by another friend that..

"No Scrapper is ever better at surviving than any Tanker".

(With the one accepted caveat of Regen scrappers vs Psi when compared to Invulnerable tankers.)

My argument was that while when all things are equal, a tanker would be the better choice, an IO'd out SD scrapper would be a more durable toon than a "basic" Tanker who is just set up with IOs.

Or that my friend could essentially have the damage potential of a Scrapper with better durability than a low end Tanker if he took SD/DM and was willing to invest the time and Influence into the character to do it right.


For example; this fairly IO'd (but not maximized) SD/Dark Scrapper... (Note: the settings for Phalanx Fighting have been adjusted to reflect zero allies in range)


Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Shield Scrapper: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Darkness Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Shadow Punch -- Mako-Dam%:50(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx:50(3), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(3), Mako-Acc/Dmg:50(5), Mako-Dmg/Rchg:50(5), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:50(25)
Level 1: Deflection -- DefBuff-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(7), DefBuff-I:50(7)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- DefBuff-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(9), DefBuff-I:50(9)
Level 4: True Grit -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(A), Numna-Heal:50(21), Numna-Heal/EndRdx:50(21), Heal-I:30(23)
Level 6: Shadow Maul -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(A), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg:50(11), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg:50(11), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(13), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg:50(13)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:50(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(15), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:50(15), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:50(17), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(17)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(19), Zephyr-ResKB:50(19), DefBuff-I:50(23), DefBuff-I:50(33)
Level 12: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(45), Zephyr-ResKB:50(45)
Level 16: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 18: Dark Consumption -- Erad-Dmg:30(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg:30(25), Erad-Dmg/Rchg:30(27), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(27), Erad-%Dam:30(29), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(29)
Level 20: Phalanx Fighting -- DefBuff-I:50(A)
Level 22: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 24: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(A), Mrcl-Heal:40(31), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx:40(33)
Level 26: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod:50(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg:50(33), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx:50(34), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg:50(34)
Level 28: Soul Drain -- Oblit-%Dam:50(A), Oblit-Dmg:50(34), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:50(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(36), Oblit-Acc/Rchg:50(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(37)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(31), RechRdx-I:50(31)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- T'Death-Dam%:40(A), T'Death-Acc/Dmg:40(37), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:40(39), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:40(39), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg:40(39), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx:40(40)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- Oblit-%Dam:50(A), Oblit-Dmg:50(37), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(40), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:50(42), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(42), Oblit-Acc/Rchg:50(42)
Level 38: Boxing -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:50(40), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:50(43), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:50(43), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(43)
Level 41: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(A)
Level 44: Torrent -- Posi-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:50(45), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:50(46), Posi-Dmg/Rng:50(46), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(46)
Level 47: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def:50(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(48), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg:50(48), DefBuff-I:50(48)
Level 49: Dark Blast -- Cloud-ToHitDeb:30(A), Cloud-Acc/ToHitDeb:30(50), Cloud-Acc/Rchg:30(50), Cloud-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg:30(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Fire)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Cold)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Energy)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Negative)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)[*]8.63% Defense(Smashing)[*]8.63% Defense(Lethal)[*]9.25% Defense(Fire)[*]9.25% Defense(Cold)[*]11.1% Defense(Energy)[*]11.1% Defense(Negative)[*]3% Defense(Psionic)[*]14.3% Defense(Melee)[*]14.6% Defense(Ranged)[*]15.5% Defense(AoE)[*]4.05% Max End[*]50% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]32.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]180.7 HP (13.5%) HitPoints[*]Knockback (Mag -8)[*]Knockup (Mag -8)[*]MezResist(Confused) 2.5%[*]MezResist(Held) 8.55%[*]MezResist(Immobilize) 13%[*]MezResist(Sleep) 2.5%[*]MezResist(Stun) 6.9%[*]MezResist(Terrorized) 2.5%[*]6.5% (0.11 End/sec) Recovery[*]42% (2.35 HP/sec) Regeneration[*]1.58% Resistance(Fire)[*]1.58% Resistance(Cold)[*]3.13% Resistance(Negative)[*]2% XPDebtProtection[/list]

Versus this very basic Fire/Dark Tanker..



Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Basic Fire Tank: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Dark Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Earth Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blazing Aura -- Acc-I:50(A), Dmg-I:50(3), Dmg-I:50(3), EndRdx-I:50(5), EndRdx-I:50(5)
Level 1: Shadow Punch -- Acc-I:50(A), Dmg-I:50(7), Dmg-I:50(7), Dmg-I:50(9), RechRdx-I:50(9)
Level 2: Fire Shield -- ResDam-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(11), ResDam-I:50(11), EndRdx-I:50(46), EndRdx-I:50(46)
Level 4: Healing Flames -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(13), RechRdx-I:50(13), Heal-I:50(15), Heal-I:50(15), Heal-I:50(17)
Level 6: Shadow Maul -- Acc-I:50(A), Dmg-I:50(17), Dmg-I:50(19), Dmg-I:50(19), RechRdx-I:50(21)
Level 8: Consume -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(21), RechRdx-I:50(23)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(25), DefBuff-I:50(27)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- ResDam-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(27), ResDam-I:50(29), EndRdx-I:50(29), EndRdx-I:50(45)
Level 14: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 16: Super Jump -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 18: Siphon Life -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(31), Dmg-I:50(31), Dmg-I:50(31), Heal-I:50(33), Heal-I:50(33)
Level 20: Burn -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(33), RechRdx-I:50(34), Dmg-I:50(34), Dmg-I:50(34), Dmg-I:50(42)
Level 22: Health -- Heal-I:50(A), Heal-I:50(23), Heal-I:50(25)
Level 24: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(36), EndMod-I:50(36)
Level 26: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(36), RechRdx-I:50(37)
Level 28: Soul Drain -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(37), RechRdx-I:50(37)
Level 30: Boxing -- Acc-I:50(A), Dmg-I:50(39), Dmg-I:50(39), RechRdx-I:50(39)
Level 32: Tough -- ResDam-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(40), ResDam-I:50(40), EndRdx-I:50(46)
Level 35: Dark Consumption -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(40), RechRdx-I:50(42), EndMod-I:50(42)
Level 38: Weave -- DefBuff-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(43), DefBuff-I:50(43), EndRdx-I:50(50)
Level 41: Stone Prison -- Acc-I:50(A), Immob-I:50(43)
Level 44: Quick Sand -- Slow-I:50(A), Slow-I:50(45), Slow-I:50(45)
Level 47: Stalagmites -- Acc-I:50(A), Dmg-I:50(48), Dmg-I:50(48), EndRdx-I:50(48)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(50), RechRdx-I:50(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u] None


Unless I am missing something (which I am not ruling out mind you) overall I think that the SD scrapper would be just as durable in most situations and possibly much more so in several others than the Tanker, while at the same time being able to deal out considerably more damage.


 

Posted

For a Spines/invul it is really hard not to have things locked on you.

Just saying....

BC


 

Posted

Well, yeah, if you want to compare IOed scrappers to SOed tanker fire armor, you will find many scrappers are better. Possibly all... Yes, IOed scrapper fire armor has stronger survivability than SOed tanker fire armor in my opinion, if you build the scrapper for maximum mitigation and are only concerned about solo performance.

Arguably, you're picking the strongest scrapper armor set (not in pure mitigation, I'm considering Shield Charge, AaO and the full, stackable mez protection as well when I say that) with the strongest synergy (DM having the heal Shield lacks, and SD working perfectly with AaO), and you compare it to the weakest tanker armor set, with mediocre synergy (DM's heal isn't so important as FA already has a good heal, the tohitdebuffs haven't any defense to stack with). That's pretty much the worst (or best ) case scenario here.

If you compare an IOed Shield/DM tanker to a SOed DM/Fire scrapper, the tanker will have higher DPS (and obviously much higher survivability).


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Well, yeah, if you want to compare IOed scrappers to SOed tanker fire armor, you will find many scrappers are better. Possibly all... Yes, IOed scrapper fire armor has stronger survivability than SOed tanker fire armor in my opinion, if you build the scrapper for maximum mitigation and are only concerned about solo performance.

Arguably, you're picking the strongest scrapper armor set (not in pure mitigation, I'm considering Shield Charge, AaO and the full, stackable mez protection as well when I say that) with the strongest synergy (DM having the heal Shield lacks, and SD working perfectly with AaO), and you compare it to the weakest tanker armor set, with mediocre synergy (DM's heal isn't so important as FA already has a good heal, the tohitdebuffs haven't any defense to stack with). That's pretty much the worst (or best ) case scenario here.

If you compare an IOed Shield/DM tanker to a SOed DM/Fire scrapper, the tanker will have higher DPS (and obviously much higher survivability).

[/ QUOTE ]

True, however my point has been to refute the statement of my friend..

"No Scrapper is ever better at surviving than any Tanker".

And am basing my comparisons on my attempts to not only refute that point of view but to show that it is possible to build a Scrapper that has the overall durability of a nominal Tank (something that my other friend was interested in).

My sole point in asking here is to see if there was some aspect of the comparative survivability that I had missed or was mis-representing.


 

Posted

Well, ill say it like this. When I play with certain scrappers, I have the attitude, "we don't need a tank. I'm here." That's just how some are built. However, even with saying that, I can be on one of my tanks, be in the middle of a mob, put taunt on auto and go afk and come back and everybody on the team is still alive. I can't stand in a mob with my scrapper like that and expect the same thing. Well, not for as long. And mind you, so far, I've put more work into my scrappers IO build and my tank still has lvl 25 common IOs


"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."

@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
...contention held by another friend that..

"No Scrapper is ever better at surviving than any Tanker".

[/ QUOTE ]
Hahahahaaha!

Tankers are much better at surviving in general, but there's definitely an overlap area when you're comparing scrankers with DPS tanks.

(edit: By a similar token, some blasters are more survivable than some scrappers.)


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...contention held by another friend that..

"No Scrapper is ever better at surviving than any Tanker".

[/ QUOTE ]
Hahahahaaha!

Tankers are much better at surviving in general, but there's definitely an overlap area when you're comparing scrankers with DPS tanks.

(edit: By a similar token, some blasters are more survivable than some scrappers.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I think his point was given the same defensive powerset (ie: sd to sd, da to da). Otherwise, I have some faceplanting tankers to introduce him to that aren't quite built for the 54 boss farms my scrappers run.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I think his point was given the same defensive powerset (ie: sd to sd, da to da). Otherwise, I have some faceplanting tankers to introduce him to that aren't quite built for the 54 boss farms my scrappers run.

[/ QUOTE ]
I was chasing around a Fire tank who seemed to think that Rise of the Phoenix should be part of his offensive arsenal, used at every opportunity. I swear he must have had it slotted for recharge. Oh, and he had no knockback protection. I bought him a knockback protection IO it was so bad (this was back when they were much cheaper), but he didn't slot it. Good thing the rest of us were able to handle the aggro.

I'm sure there are equally bad stories about scrappers, and I've spent time around very good tanks as well, so I'm not picking on tanks. Just THAT tank.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...contention held by another friend that..

"No Scrapper is ever better at surviving than any Tanker".

[/ QUOTE ]
Hahahahaaha!

Tankers are much better at surviving in general, but there's definitely an overlap area when you're comparing scrankers with DPS tanks.

(edit: By a similar token, some blasters are more survivable than some scrappers.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I think his point was given the same defensive powerset (ie: sd to sd, da to da). Otherwise, I have some faceplanting tankers to introduce him to that aren't quite built for the 54 boss farms my scrappers run.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ohh boss farms. My plant/rad troller runs those like a walk in perez park.

Back on subject, if you slot a SD/DM tank the same way you slot a DM/SD scrapper as close as you can with some obvious exceptions (taunt) to get the same numbers, ie def soft cap, seemless attack chains, blah blah, blah... Both would excel. The tank would live longer and the scrapper would kill faster. Normaly resault in living longer as well. So the scrapper would survive because he kills faster then the tank. Even though it would take the tank longer to kill, he would still survive. Here is the twist. Could the scrapper survive if it took as long for it to kill the same mob as it did the tank? Let's say it was a... hmm lvl 52 L T farm. (stupid blackberry keeps putting the time in when I put "L" and "T" together)


"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."

@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.

 

Posted

Just get two scrappers and screw tanks....


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Just get two scrappers and screw tanks....

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't know you were so gung-ho about forced sex. :P


 

Posted

Ultimately I think my friend would be happier with the Scrapper option as he is not the type to want to stand there and let other people kill the map for him.

It's up to him, but I think that is my recommendation.

Hell, Maybe I'll build the opposite of whatever he chooses and we can run them side by side.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Ultimately I think my friend would be happier with the Scrapper option as he is not the type to want to stand there and let other people kill the map for him.

It's up to him, but I think that is my recommendation.

Hell, Maybe I'll build the opposite of whatever he chooses and we can run them side by side.



[/ QUOTE ]

So, here's my other thought, as I was looking into it... if you're going fire melee, I'd go tanker.

Just from playing with #'s (napkin calcs in excel) the tanker's weaker damage is made up for with combustion and fireball. While I *love* energy torrent, fireball hits more targets, easier to use, etc etc etc.

I was struggling to decide between fire melee + shield tanker or scrapper, and I think I'll be leveling a tanker.

Disclaimer: I like big teams, multi spawn herds and crazy situations, I don't solo or think about single target attack chains much.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ultimately I think my friend would be happier with the Scrapper option as he is not the type to want to stand there and let other people kill the map for him.

It's up to him, but I think that is my recommendation.

Hell, Maybe I'll build the opposite of whatever he chooses and we can run them side by side.



[/ QUOTE ]

So, here's my other thought, as I was looking into it... if you're going fire melee, I'd go tanker.

Just from playing with #'s (napkin calcs in excel) the tanker's weaker damage is made up for with combustion and fireball. While I *love* energy torrent, fireball hits more targets, easier to use, etc etc etc.

I was struggling to decide between fire melee + shield tanker or scrapper, and I think I'll be leveling a tanker.

Disclaimer: I like big teams, multi spawn herds and crazy situations, I don't solo or think about single target attack chains much.


[/ QUOTE ]

Blah by scrapper is still better with fsc doing more damage and shield charge what else do you need I mean I also solo AV's with no temps or inspiration

Stick with a scrapper damage rules


Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Ultimately I think my friend would be happier with the Scrapper option as he is not the type to want to stand there and let other people kill the map for him.

It's up to him, but I think that is my recommendation.

Hell, Maybe I'll build the opposite of whatever he chooses and we can run them side by side.



[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if your friend wants to tank spawns, have him pick up the presence pool (for an AOE taunt), if he's just looking to tank when up against AVs, Confront will do.

The tank will get better numbers easier than the scrapper, but the scrapper can kill faster.

If IO sets are in the mix, id go Scrapper.

Yeah, the IOed out Tanker will survive better, but the IOed out Scrapper will survive well enough.


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