Neco / Poison -- any good?


Bookkeeper_Jay

 

Posted

i just got the game yesterday (ive not played CoH since 2004 :O 'meta volta' 50 ar/dev blaster on victory, if anyone remembers me? :P) and decided to play a Necro/Poison MM

is this combo good for leveling? so far ive not been having problems, cos my pet can solo stuff while i heal it with Akaloid, but i noticed neither necro or poison have any AoE abilities. is this gonna make leveling slow later on?

and for pvp, how does necro/poison do there? i noticed that the zombie henchmen only have a melee attack and don't run very fast... am i gonna have problems with people just running away from the minions or kiting them ? or does poison have some abilities to slow people down? (like web grenade from devices)?

or perhaps bot/trap will be better? i cant really decide which to chose. they both seem fun.

thanks


 

Posted

/poison makes for serious single target damage and general "boss nuking" ability.

Necro/ is also very good at single target damage, although the vomiting zombies is an AoE (albeit very small). The lich is supposedly very control oriented, I don't know because I haven't gotten him yet.

I'm playing a necro/pain, and I have trouble keeping my pets alive at times. That means your alkaloid probably won't cut it all the time. Don't get discouraged, because after the last upgrade, all your pets can heal themselves, so in all reality, your combination is probably much better than mine.

The MM game gets really difficult in the 18-23 range. You have three zombies at -2 and only one grave knight. To top it all off, you get AoE happy scrapyarders. It'll be a pain, you'll have to team a lot, but you can get through it. You've played a blaster, so you're used to debt. Heh.

Biggest tips I can offer: skip your primary attacks and use your secondary debuffs. I do have a thugs/poison, and I love the debuffs.


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Posted

Even the most well played and equipped MM can lose pets or have pet wipes. It's just the nature of random rolls, unexpected ambushes (by definition, they are unexpected), and just plain miscalculation.

Necro is great in melee, I use Thugs/Traps with Team Teleport to get my crew into the close and personal range. I also slipped a +stelth mod into my teleport power so I don't get aggro (old thinking, pre-shared damage build).

At any rate, /poison would have been damn useful last night against Mynx. She was totally surrounded by probably 50 of our guys + pets and we couldn't get her below 25%. I'm sure had we a /poison she would have been gone gone gone. But here's the deal, pre-40 you just don't see all that many elite heroes and such so /poison doesn't exactly feel utilized. +40 though, damn, it would make life so much eaiser.

Keep at it, there are very few bad primaries/secondary combos that don't work well. Necro/poison isn't bad. Now, /trick arrow ... cough... (awaits the /trick arrow defenders to show up)


 

Posted

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i just got the game yesterday (ive not played CoH since 2004 :O 'meta volta' 50 ar/dev blaster on victory, if anyone remembers me? :P) and decided to play a Necro/Poison MM

is this combo good for leveling? so far ive not been having problems, cos my pet can solo stuff while i heal it with Akaloid, but i noticed neither necro or poison have any AoE abilities. is this gonna make leveling slow later on?

and for pvp, how does necro/poison do there? i noticed that the zombie henchmen only have a melee attack and don't run very fast... am i gonna have problems with people just running away from the minions or kiting them ? or does poison have some abilities to slow people down? (like web grenade from devices)?

or perhaps bot/trap will be better? i cant really decide which to chose. they both seem fun.

thanks

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You'd "think" Necro would be an excellent pairing with Poison. As most of the minions are close combat. However being that the minions are extremely squishie (even with the pet defense and resistant enhancements) it falls short of expectations.

Zombie Horde being your most melee oriented pet, you most likely want to put Noxious Gas on one of them; however they are easily killed, I mean wet paper bag easy.

Grave Knights unless forced into Melee tend to stay at range when you throw Noxious Gas on them. This is fine for PvE as you can force them into Melee by using your Goto bind; however in PvP it's a pain in the [censored] as your enemy is constantly moving.

Also Necromancy tend to be slower than Ninjas, Thugs and even Robotics so they aren't really optimal for PvP, plus they don't have the best damage outup of the Primaries either and fall short in the ranged department. Zombies used to be fantastic in PvP as you could hit an enemy with Neurotic Breath, webnade them and they were practicly forced into a snail crawl so your minions could attack them easier. Since the Nerf to Slows in PvP and how travel supression works it makes playing a Necro/Pois all the more difficult.

If you are looking for a good marriage of Primary and Poison for PvP I'd go Thugs. Your Ranged pets are Ranged pets and your Melee Pet aside from rock throw Actually goes into Melee range quite easily and he isn't squishie! an excellent minion to place noxious gas on and send after an enemy.


 

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i dont really like the look of thugs :/

would bots/poison be better for pvp than necro? bots, imo, look pretty cool


 

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Some might say bots is a terrible secondary for poison, don't listen to them. Bots is great with any secondary; decent damage, excellent survivability and ranged.

Bots are all ranged so Noxious Gas can be skipped unless you really want it to keep those scrappers dumb enough to hop into the middle of your bots at bay.

Bots 10% defense shield pairs wonderfully with Weakens
-tohit.

With PowerBoost in the scorpion set it makes no sense taking any other Patron power, especially with Poison as your secondary.


 

Posted

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Some might say bots is a terrible secondary for poison, don't listen to them. Bots is great with any secondary; decent damage, excellent survivability and ranged.

Bots are all ranged so Noxious Gas can be skipped unless you really want it to keep those scrappers dumb enough to hop into the middle of your bots at bay.

Bots 10% defense shield pairs wonderfully with Weakens
-tohit.

With PowerBoost in the scorpion set it makes no sense taking any other Patron power, especially with Poison as your secondary.

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15% defense shields


 

Posted

Is the protector bots Shield on you the player 15%? I've played around with it and the most I've gotten (Protector bot slotted with 2 defense) was 11.?%

I'm not at home so I can neither confirm or deny this.


 

Posted

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Is the protector bots Shield on you the player 15%? I've played around with it and the most I've gotten (Protector bot slotted with 2 defense) was 11.?%

I'm not at home so I can neither confirm or deny this.

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The buff on you is initially 7.50%.

With two defense IOs it can be around 12% or 11%


 

Posted

Oh, so I "was" in the right range. Where did you get 15% from?


 

Posted

I can't speak for any PvP issues, but Necro/Poison has been a cakewalk for me (currently 49.6 or so)... the zombies are far less squishy than ninjas, and the zombies (at least later on) heal THEMSELVES. Poison's heal is single target, sure, but you don't have to have a foe around (like Twilight Grasp) to use it, and I really don't find myself needing it that often.

Noxious Gas works -great- on a Grave Knight forced into melee, btw --- in PvP, as noted, that isn't going to work, but in PvE a Noxious Grave Knight can -decimate- just about any EB (although I'd recommend giving that Grave Knight some Luck insp and keeping the heals going because Noxious Gas is one MAJOR aggro generator).

AoE wise, only one I can think of (aside from the pet-PBOAE Noxious Gas) is Neurotoxic Breath which is -awesome- and available very early. Massive cone Slow and often foes will get thrown into the retching animation. At 49th level, I then throw on Bile Spray and School of Sharks for more AoE DoT-ing.

And while they are single-target, Envenom and Weaken are -crippling- to foes.


 

Posted

I played a Necro/Poison MM until around 20 and didn't enjoy it. Alkaloid is a truly lousy heal, and there's little else in the package to help keep your pets alive. Envenom and Weaken are very powerful, but single-target debuffs are of limited value in the majority of fights. Noxious breath is the only group debuff, and I just don't think it makes enough of a difference.

Basically, in many fights you'll find yourself spewing the breath, then waiting for it to recharge. Not much else to do. Alkaloid is such an Endurance sink that you might find yourself just giving up on it.


 

Posted

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Oh, so I "was" in the right range. Where did you get 15% from?

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Prot Bots double buffing. Misread I guess.


 

Posted

Just slot up alkaloid with heal sets to get heal, recharge, and end redux in there. It's basically the same power heal wise as o2 boost in terms of heal, recharge, animation time, and end cost, and I could spam that power on my stormy, even before I crazy slotted my stormy out for end recovery and +max end. It's all my stormy ever needed heal wise for my zombies, but I also had freezing rain, so enemies didn't damage me much to begin with.


 

Posted

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Zombie Horde being your most melee oriented pet, you most likely want to put Noxious Gas on one of them; however they are easily killed, I mean wet paper bag easy.

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That's about the silliest thing I've ever heard. You always put Noxious Gas on your Tier 3 pet. ALWAYS. The debuffs from Noxious Gas on a Tier 3 is nearly double that of a Tier 3, and your Tier 3 will stay alive longer. If that means using GoTo to send my Lich into melee, then that's well worth it for the massive debuffs he'll dole out. Added bonus, the Lich actually stays put.

That said, I've played a Necro/Poison to 50, and I enjoy it. It requires a lot of micromanaging though. Keep bodyguard on, and make sure you're always the one to open the fight. Open up with Neurotoxic Breath so you take the alpha instead of the pets. Then choose your debuff targets wisely. Get some recharge and endurance reduction in them, and you can debuff a whole group pretty easily. Just make sure to use weaken on higher rank enemies, enemies that deal more damage, etc. to help keep your pets alive.

Really, making sure you're using your debuffs right is the biggest trick.

Oh, and don't sweat a few little zombies dying here and there. I'm actually kind of glad when my first zombie dies. That means I can get a 7th pet out. Man, I love Soul Extraction.


 

Posted

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That's about the silliest thing I've ever heard. You always put Noxious Gas on your Tier 3 pet. ALWAYS. The debuffs from Noxious Gas on a Tier 3 is nearly double that of a Tier 3, and your Tier 3 will stay alive longer. If that means using GoTo to send my Lich into melee, then that's well worth it for the massive debuffs he'll dole out. Added bonus, the Lich actually stays put.

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As far as I know... putting Noxious Gas on a "boss" pet doesn't make it debuff any better than putting it on a "minion" pet. It should debuff the exact same. It shouldn't matter.

Now, I've only ever had it on my Bruiser, since I've only ever gotten Thugs/Poison up that high, but honestly, I really don't think it makes a difference. Anyone else ever heard of this?


Always up for teaming with good players, so hit me up: @Deceivius and @Deceivius2

 

Posted

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That's about the silliest thing I've ever heard. You always put Noxious Gas on your Tier 3 pet. ALWAYS. The debuffs from Noxious Gas on a Tier 3 is nearly double that of a Tier 3, and your Tier 3 will stay alive longer. If that means using GoTo to send my Lich into melee, then that's well worth it for the massive debuffs he'll dole out. Added bonus, the Lich actually stays put.


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Right, go ahead and put Noxious Gas on your Lich in PvP and force him into melee.

Yes, what I posted was the siliest thing you've ever read...*Eyes Lasers post*


 

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That's about the silliest thing I've ever heard. You always put Noxious Gas on your Tier 3 pet. ALWAYS. The debuffs from Noxious Gas on a Tier 3 is nearly double that of a Tier 3, and your Tier 3 will stay alive longer. If that means using GoTo to send my Lich into melee, then that's well worth it for the massive debuffs he'll dole out. Added bonus, the Lich actually stays put.

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As far as I know... putting Noxious Gas on a "boss" pet doesn't make it debuff any better than putting it on a "minion" pet. It should debuff the exact same. It shouldn't matter.

Now, I've only ever had it on my Bruiser, since I've only ever gotten Thugs/Poison up that high, but honestly, I really don't think it makes a difference. Anyone else ever heard of this?

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Try this.

Which tier pet you cast Noxious Gas on does make a difference. And yes, I've tested the numbers in PvP.

Grizz


"When Chuck Norris can't go on, Petra Majdič perseveres!"

 

Posted

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i just got the game yesterday (ive not played CoH since 2004 :O 'meta volta' 50 ar/dev blaster on victory, if anyone remembers me? :P) and decided to play a Necro/Poison MM
is this combo good for leveling? so far ive not been having problems, cos my pet can solo stuff while i heal it with Akaloid, but i noticed neither necro or poison have any AoE abilities. is this gonna make leveling slow later on?

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Necro/Poison is the first character I made as well. I pretty much solo'd all the way up to 50. So long as you use your debuffs, you'll be fine.

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and for pvp, how does necro/poison do there? i noticed that the zombie henchmen only have a melee attack and don't run very fast... am i gonna have problems with people just running away from the minions or kiting them ? or does poison have some abilities to slow people down? (like web grenade from devices)?

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The Poison set is very strong in PvP; it includes pretty much every debuff in the game. Including -Special and -Heal, which are fairly rare. Neurotoxic Breath will help keep people from running, and it's an AoE. Which also makes it great for opening up on mobs.

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or perhaps bot/trap will be better? i cant really decide which to chose. they both seem fun.

thanks

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With Masterminds, there is no uber or gimped powerset combination. What makes a combination fun for a player is their playstyle and the players understanding and application of the secondary powers.

My opinion, try both. Then see which one you like better.

Grizz


"When Chuck Norris can't go on, Petra Majdič perseveres!"

 

Posted

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That's about the silliest thing I've ever heard. You always put Noxious Gas on your Tier 3 pet. ALWAYS. The debuffs from Noxious Gas on a Tier 3 is nearly double that of a Tier 3, and your Tier 3 will stay alive longer. If that means using GoTo to send my Lich into melee, then that's well worth it for the massive debuffs he'll dole out. Added bonus, the Lich actually stays put.


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Right, go ahead and put Noxious Gas on your Lich in PvP and force him into melee.

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I will. I've tested Noxious Gas with Power Analyzer Mk III and checked out the debuff numbers. The tier 3 pet gets the biggest debuffs. Go ahead and check it out yourself.

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Yes, what I posted was the siliest thing you've ever read...*Eyes Lasers post*

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The voices in my head are upset by that remark.


 

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That's about the silliest thing I've ever heard. You always put Noxious Gas on your Tier 3 pet. ALWAYS. The debuffs from Noxious Gas on a Tier 3 is nearly double that of a Tier 3, and your Tier 3 will stay alive longer. If that means using GoTo to send my Lich into melee, then that's well worth it for the massive debuffs he'll dole out. Added bonus, the Lich actually stays put.


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Right, go ahead and put Noxious Gas on your Lich in PvP and force him into melee.

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I will. I've tested Noxious Gas with Power Analyzer Mk III and checked out the debuff numbers. The tier 3 pet gets the biggest debuffs. Go ahead and check it out yourself.

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Yes, what I posted was the siliest thing you've ever read...*Eyes Lasers post*

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The voices in my head are upset by that remark.

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I'm not disputing your arguement that the tier 3 pet offers the best debuffs.

I'm pointing out that it's 'silly' to try and force Lich into Close Combat range in PvP. Especially now since Devs nerfed slows to hell.

While you may be getting better debuffs off your lich, you still are getting the hold component if you throw Noxious on Grave Knights or Zombie Horde and a significant debuff. Since they are both melee and Noxious has a very small radius, it's much more practical to place noxious on your tier1 or tier2 zombie pets in PvP instances.

(Unless you have some magical bind that forces your lich into Melee range and attacks your designated target. Inwhich case I want yur binds! and no Goto doesn't cut it.)

Mechanicly speaking, untill the Devs fix graveknights so that they actually move into Melee instead of using their bloody ranged powers all the time or get another pet primary that also has a tier 3 that is purely melee. Thugs are your best bet for Poison.


 

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Oh, I didn't notice the PvP part. Yeah, in PvP I've always used a Grave Knight. Once you force it to walk into melee, it'll start using it's broadsword.