1) Remove your mention of prices so this thread doesn't get deleted. I'm not sure if it skirts rules or not but just to be safe, do it.
2) IMO you should never have to wait more than a year for a piece of art. There will always be exceptions, but for your average artist, not so much.
3) It sounds like your artist has gotten the classic case of 'bit off more than they can chew.' Right now, seeing past the queue line to the finish has got to be a hell of a daunting and depressing task. Honestly if I was offered my money back, I'd take it.
Chances are you're SOL, tho', from the sounds of it. Your artist may eventually get to your piece, but you've waited well and beyond a reasonable point. If you're going to out this artist, do it on your own journal, not theirs, link back here if you must. Perhaps in time your artist will learn from this experience and work at pacing themselves better.
@Liz!
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1. Yeah. Wasn't thinking when I posted that. Not her current prices, as far as I know, but still. Edited 
2, I agree with - but was also being patient as I knew she was in school, and as mentioned a holiday bit. Still.... leading to 3 - 15 pieces. Even if she did one a month, she'd be done by now. (Plus, honestly, I *did* just about forget or a bit.)
What irks me about this *last* bit of waiting, though, is that I've seen basically "Stage before coloring." Two pieces have *gotten* colored (and I'll hold off comment on that right now.) And none of the pieces are that *difficult* - I know, easy for me to say, but she's finished (eh) the most complex one.
Still. Two days. I guess we see what happens. >.<
That's a bummer that you got burned. Can you PM the artist's name to me? I'm wondering if I've worked with her before. I'm still waiting for a headshot I requestedback in December for someone. It's done. I got a hi-rez. But I requested and negotiated for the original and it's never been sent. Meanwhile, there are journal entries and other works being posted. I've pestered artists for as long as 2 years, though I think anything beyond 12 weeks is unreasonable. If an artist is going to go past that mark in completing one piece of work for you (assuming all the references were clear and there were no communication issues, multiple revisions etc), it suggests one of two things: they're too busy with priority work and took commissions when they shouldn't have or they're friggin' lazy. I would post the name on your dA journal and vent your frustration there along with what's going on, and in the future, send notes to people who've commissioned the artists you're considering and ask them what their experiences were like.
SOP aside, it doesn't really make much sense to me that you have to send money before you get anything in return. Ultimately, it is the only thing that gives you (the customer) any power in the situation.
Because the same thing can be said in favor of the artist. Artists commonly get screwed exactly the same way by cut-and-run commissioners.
The perfect way to handle it is through an escrow type of service, but those are generally far to hard to work with to make it a realistic choice.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Massacre_Melanie -the original Fire/Dark Corruptor -
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=115217
The Guide to BURN
What about a half-now-half-later approach? That way no one is out an unreasonable amount if someone bails. Or just a "good faith" deposit.
That's a possibility too. The artist shouldn't give out anything more than a sample thumbnail for a piece until he/she has been paid. But in the very least the artist got some practice time in, so I wouldn't view it as a complete loss or waste of time. A deposit certainly works too though I personally do my best to avoid paying anything upfront. If any artist needs to verify who I am and whether or not I'm trustworthy, there are 7 artists who'll vouch for me. I've earned enough street-cred by now.
It really does depend on who you work for and why. I would do work for a "Bayani" on consignment... in fact I am doing one for someone now, who shall remain nameless. But only because their "name" had some clout for me.
I try not to be one of those artists that doesn't learn by their mistakes, and I try to learn from each piece, in how it effects my work habits and pacing. Which is probably one of the reasons I am currently only doing a 4 at a time set.
I think that for me is manageable. I don't get overworked, and more importantly the client gets their order. I could dig deep, lose sleep and be a general pain to live with IF I wanted to do every possible commission out there, and never look back... I think that would hurt me and any rep I still had, and certainly I would be sending more emails apologizing out than work. I hate doing that. A LOT...
If the customer is new, and I know of no one vouching for them, I expect the money up front, or they can hire someone else. That's how I chose to work. They have the choice NOT to hire me. IF the person is a repeat customer, I pretty much know they are good for it, and 10 out of 10 times they have already paid me upfront, because "they" know that's how I like to work, and they are okay with that.
When I split the funds, 1/2 now, 1/2 later, I feel like I have to go chasing for the second 1/2, and if the client is unaware that the piece is done, sometimes their money is not ready to be transferred. Which is okay again if I trust them, if they are new, my hackles go up and I put them on a mental, never again list.
Not to say that I am not guilty of missing a deadline, but I have yet to have been burned, or to burn a customer. I took an order once for 6 pieces, but the client and I had simultaneous RL problems and the order got lost in limbo. That is something out of my hands, while I would gladly fill the order now, I have some guilt of asking them for money on something they wanted when they were healthier... no I think I will let that one go, and hopefully they won't hold a grudge on me.
Overall I would tell the client, only do what you are comfortable doing, and for the artist I would say, sometimes you have to take a risk if you want to make the cash... know your client, and your artist, buyer/seller beware...
I mentioned this elsewhere, but you kinda have to accept the fact that non-paying customers and artists failing to complete work are a part of this hobby. Much like how injuries are a part of any sport. Obviously, in either case, you make an effort to minimize those types of risks but statistically, it's bound to happen some day. I've mentioned before that an artist I had commissioned (and paid upfront) got sick and past away last year before he completed the terms of our agreement. There was nothing I can do about that. What am I going to do? Ask artists to start submitting their annual physicals?
Oh well if that's the case I just passed mine! Had to get it for my permanent residency card in Canada...
*looks over LJ's lab reports* Well, looks like someone's been having "too" much fun.
nuh uh... I am clean... that meth isn't mine... I uh... found it.
I've been burned before by commissioners... but not that often (about once a year). I now make sure that they get nothing 'usable' until I am paid - it'll either be a sketch, watermarked, or a thumbnail.
To the OP, this is from april 08? That's past a year and way past my cut-off line. I'd personally name and shame... but that's just me.
Good luck with it.
Oh, and I posted a min-rant about this awhile back.
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and I posted a min-rant about this awhile back.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have that mini-rant bookmarked
Well, her own deadline passed.
For those who might be wondering, the person listed is Miserie.. Just noted her and asked to close the whole thing.
Too bad MB, she has a nice painterly style... sounds like she's had nothing but bad luck. Perhaps it's best to walk away...
Yeah, pretty much what I did. The note I sent just explained it's been too long and requested we just close out the commission, removing me from her queue.
(And as far as bad luck, well - to a point, I'd buy it, but there's that whole communication bit...)
Yes, I'm also on that list. I've already made peace with the fact that I won't see my artwork, but I've been so lucky with artists that I can't complain, really. Good luck, Bill, I hope you do get everything you paid for, or can work out a refund.
Busting heads since 1938
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ick, such a shame to see that something happened to her. She was nice to work with when she first popped up and was in need of cash. At that time she went through a few other commissions and managed to complete the 5 Heris I ordered. The next round of Wherls I didn't expect to be completed very quickly as she was back in school. I didn't hear anything for awhile so I left it for lost, and then heard something when Memphis asked about it. I havent' heard anything since from her, so I'm considering it lost again. That's two artist now for me. Bound to happen I guess. Luckily it's balanced by some artists I've gotten stuff from that has more than made up for it, and artist that have grown in the last few years at that.
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Interesting that she has not made a journal post to update people, considering her deadline passed. Ah well. I am sorry that some of you have been burned, and I hope that this artist can get past this bump in the road. Well, you guys, too.
@Liz!
sketches on tumblr | finished pieces and resources on dA
Currently most active:
Shining Finger: 40 Elec/Titan][Summer's Son: 38 Fire/Fire/Pyre
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City of Heroes LiveJournal community.
Friendly, helpful and surprisingly light on the drama.
Save our game Master post.
... somehow I don't think I spelled that right.
Anyway, I've mentioned from time to time waiting beyond actual reason for a specific artist. Not naming them yet, but the only *other* artist I have a commission with right now is Becaro's special, and it's certainly not him I have problems with.
This was set up back in April 2008, link from a friend's journal who said the person was having trouble with school and so having a sale. Well, decent pricing, so why not, right? 5 pieces.
Fast forward. I'm in "sketching" stage for... well, a long time. Last update for a while was in October, where I was still "sketching."
Holidays pass. I nearly forget about the person, then check back - no update. Try to contact through email - nothing. It's DA, send a note or two - nothing. Check with one or two other people on their commission list, who *also* haven't heard back... nothing. Check with paypal to see if there's any chance of action - no, but the notice from THEM gets the artist's attention. I get a message back saying "Please talk to me first, sorry this is taking so long." I mention emailing her multiple times. "Oh, my email gets messed up sometimes, use this one, I'll throw in a free piece, too."
I generally raise my eyebrow at this - if I'm waiting this long for pieces I've paid for, why would I believe there'd be another free one? But, OK, fine, I'm actually generally laid back. I actually get to see the sketches, and two of them get colored. I'm shocked.
Then I don't hear again. For months... Supposedly, by the end of the month, this person is planning to have their queue emptied out. As I look at her list and commissions, I see *one* that's been posted this month. Which leaves about *fifteen* waiting on her commission list (a few multiple pieces.) Not counting the promised "make up piece."
To be fair, she's got two days left in this month, one of which *is* still part of a weekend. To be snarky, if she put out as much art as she did excuses, she'd be one of the most prolific posters on DA. (And yes, this person is part of why I posted a bit on communication - didn't mention them, since IMHO the paid-for pieces are, in essence, being held hostage.) I'm also still rather irked by her journal posting when Paypal lit a fire under her, saying people were contacting them without telling her first - and not correcting it, which frankly I find a bit dishonest.
So why am I babbling about all this? Looking for opinions. Come July 1, she'll have passed her self-imposed deadline, and given the history so far I'm not holding my breath on seeing the paid-for pieces. If they actually show up, I'll be shocked. So, if my expectations (disapointment) are met, what should I do?
1. Just throw up my hands, walk away, and call it an expensive (well, semi-expensive, it was 5 pieces for $xx, so having gotten two, a not quite that much) lesson?
2. Tell her not to bother after that point?
3. "Out" what's happened, either through a message on her journal (which can, of course, be hidden/deleted by owner,) mine, and/or here? (I'll certainly be mentioning it elsewhere.) I *know* I'm not the only person, or at least wasn't, who's had to deal with her. And I certainly don't want anyone else getting burned by her.
4. Something else? DA, as I recall, pretty much just says "Work it out between you and them" and washes their hands of it. Paypal - past the time they can do anything.
Actually, even if she DOES deliver, I'll probably end up mentioning #3 anyway. It's been thoroughly unprofessional of her, and downright frustrating and irritating. I'd say I've been more than patient - but (believe it or not, given the arguing I tend to do on the boards) I'm really not confrontational. I tend to want to avoid it whenever possible.
Opinions? What would (or do) you do?