SD/DM Tanker vs DM/SD Scrapper whats the diff?
By
Darth_Khasei,
Posted on: 2009-06-26 18:51 in Tankers
Health and Defense. You will always have less Health then the Tanker version and you will have to work at getting your Defenses to the soft cap (45%) much harder.
Also, because of the way DM plays ... longish recharge times of your AOEs (SC, DC and DS), Shadow Maul and Midnight Grasp being DOTs, and the prolific use you should be getting out of Sands of Mu (anolther DOT), Scrapper criticals aren't as telling as they tend to be in other sets.
I've played both versions alongside a friend of mine who also is running both versions and we both came to the conclusion that the Tanker version was far superior. Subjective to be sure.
Well to a certain extend, Tanker with more healths = better return on heals as Sipon Life is percentage based (based on Mid's)
Opinion is heresy.
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Hi, I am just wondering. Is there any difference with the above. Been trying to decide which 1 to build. Any advice is appreciated.
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You can kill an AV solo on the scrapper, not sure the tank has enough dps to do the same.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
As has been said, tankers have higher base HP and Def numbers, meaning that it survives longer, and softcaps more easily.
The scrapper has higher base damage. Crits do suffer a little, but in the recent DM revamp, the crit on Midnight Grasp was changed to be equal to the up-front damage plus the DoT.
The one thing I'm unsure about, that would probably decide it for me: Do they have the same Defense Debuff Resistance, or is the Tanker's higher?
@Roderick
An SD scrapper can reach around 80ish percent DDR
And a tanker? Same or more?
(I'm at work, can't use anything but the forums at the moment)
@Roderick
Shield Tanks can cap DDR appearantly, according to this post.
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The scrapper has higher base damage.
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While this is true, my SD/DM Tanker does 410 damage Shield Charges and Jebe's BS/Scrapper does 427. This is me using SD (maxxed) + AAO + SC and him using BU + AAO + SC. With a small red or external buff I do the exact same damage (which is dmg cap btw).
The defensive numbers can be fairly equalized as well but not right out of the box the way damage almost is. This is part of what makes the build such a powerhouse. It truly is just about Scrapper damage with a Tanker's build.
In general, I tend to think that defense based sets aren't all that impressive on scrappers, at least compared to regen/resistance based sets.
I've never tried a DM/SD scrapper. I do have a DM/SR scrapper, and while the character is pretty good, she isn't all I hoped she'd be. This character was my AE project; the plan was to level her mostly on AE missions. You'd think that combo would be very strong, with Reflex's pure defense being supplemented by the constant to-hit buffs of Dark Melee. Unfortunately, she suffers the same fate of all defensive sets: vulnerability to debuffs, and random number failure; and when the dice roll against her, she only has scrapper HP to fall back on. (Also, SR is very inefficient when it comes to endurance.) I probably will finish taking that character to 50, but I can already see that she's going to be very expensive to outfit properly.
I made a Spines/WP scrapper a month and a half or so later. This character soon rocketed past the DM/SR scrapper, made 50, and is in fact my current project to outfit with IO sets. She has much wider choices, since I feel no need to concentrate specifically on positional defense bonuses. This is my light tanking scrapper; I've tanked the ITF on the scrapper several times, even while sidekicked.
Spines would rock as a tanker secondary, just as Regen on a brute would probably lure me back to redside.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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Unfortunately, she suffers the same fate of all defensive sets: vulnerability to debuffs
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A well-built SR is 95% resistant to defense debuffs. The problem mine has with debuffs is that some (I'm loking at you, Possessed Scientists!) nocs have debuffing attacks that are flagged as non-resistable. Not many of them, and since the player PVE and PVP versions of these attacks ARE resistable, I wonder if it's a bug. It's very very rare though -- in general, I can go afk in a crowd on the Cimerororan walls, for example, and so far have never come close to dying. I just run a few percentage points over 45% and the debuff resistance eats up the debuffs.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
QR
I know for a fact that the scrapper crits allow DM/SD and DM/SR to be supreme AV killers in the scrapper builds. I don't think SD/DM are able to do that are they?
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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I know for a fact that the scrapper crits allow DM/SD and DM/SR to be supreme AV killers in the scrapper builds. I don't think SD/DM are able to do that are they?
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I haven't tried soloing an AV yet. That might be next on my to-do list.
Heraclea: I agree with your post on a general basis. I prefer mixed sets such as Invulnerability but DM does fill in one of the major holes of SD which is regen (via Siphon Life). But as you pointed out, this works for the Tanker version because of total Health and not Scrappers for the same reason (or I should say, not as well on Scrappers).
Additionally I wouldn't be surprised to find a Scrapper soloing AVs with a DM/SD build ... damage usually being a big determining factor between Tanker's and Scrapper's ability to solo an AV.
Having said all that I don't hold "soloing an AV" up as a goal for a Tanker (I know others feel differently) and DM's damage might be too diffuse to do this as a Tanker secondary (I'll let you know).
I have a gaggle of Tankers that can sit there all day and watch an AV knock itself out against me ... that's the only part of a Tanker build against an AV that really interests me.
A SD/DM tanker can solo most AVs. Having tanker survivability makes it easy in most cases to keep 11-12* lieutenants** around you.
* It's best to have more than 10 foes in range to ensure a 100% tohit chance. The maximum tohit chance is 95%, but if you have more than the target cap in range for your AoE, the game will roll tohit checks for every mob in range and use the successfull ones until your power hits the target cap. Seeing as it is very unlikely with a 5% chance to miss to miss more than 2 foes at once, you end up with maximum Soul Drain buffs at all times.
** Minions die during the fight unless they have significant negative resistances, but lieutenants have enough regen to take it for a long time.
Are there some links to threads of people actually doing it like scrappers do that you can direct me to? My search-fu is coming up empty.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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A SD/DM tanker can solo most AVs. Having tanker survivability makes it easy in most cases to keep 11-12* lieutenants** around you.
* It's best to have more than 10 foes in range to ensure a 100% tohit chance. The maximum tohit chance is 95%, but if you have more than the target cap in range for your AoE, the game will roll tohit checks for every mob in range and use the successfull ones until your power hits the target cap. Seeing as it is very unlikely with a 5% chance to miss to miss more than 2 foes at once, you end up with maximum Soul Drain buffs at all times.
** Minions die during the fight unless they have significant negative resistances, but lieutenants have enough regen to take it for a long time.
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I would think I'd have a hard time keeping 10+ LTs around for an AV fight. Unless it's a squishy AV, my AOEs will boil down the LTs pretty quickly (unless I'm not using SC in this scenario).
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Unfortunately, she suffers the same fate of all defensive sets: vulnerability to debuffs
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A well-built SR is 95% resistant to defense debuffs. The problem mine has with debuffs is that some (I'm loking at you, Possessed Scientists!) nocs have debuffing attacks that are flagged as non-resistable. Not many of them, and since the player PVE and PVP versions of these attacks ARE resistable, I wonder if it's a bug. It's very very rare though -- in general, I can go afk in a crowd on the Cimerororan walls, for example, and so far have never come close to dying. I just run a few percentage points over 45% and the debuff resistance eats up the debuffs.
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No, the issue she's having is to-hit buffs, which custom MA critters are known to have in greater amounts.
Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.
-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade!
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Unfortunately, she suffers the same fate of all defensive sets: vulnerability to debuffs
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A well-built SR is 95% resistant to defense debuffs. The problem mine has with debuffs is that some (I'm loking at you, Possessed Scientists!) nocs have debuffing attacks that are flagged as non-resistable. Not many of them, and since the player PVE and PVP versions of these attacks ARE resistable, I wonder if it's a bug. It's very very rare though -- in general, I can go afk in a crowd on the Cimerororan walls, for example, and so far have never come close to dying. I just run a few percentage points over 45% and the debuff resistance eats up the debuffs.
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No, the issue she's having is to-hit buffs, which custom MA critters are known to have in greater amounts.
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Yeah this is a big problem for my SD/DM Tanker as well. I was in an MA mission with all PPD (Khelds) who had like a 85% chance to hit me after being debuffed AND with all my defense (sheesh).
The biggest difference is that you'll have Taunt and be able to more easily softcap your defense at the cost of losing attack power.
Too many alts to list.
That may well be it. The other problem is that when a resistance or regen set gets overwhelmed, you see it coming and have time to react. When a defense set gets overtaken, you can hit the ground quite quickly. Shields has less of a problem than SR does, in my experience, because Shields has better resistance to physical damage alongside the defense.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Hi, I am just wondering. Is there any difference with the above. Been trying to decide which 1 to build. Any advice is appreciated.
Opinion is heresy.