it sounds like whoever is playing the stalker has absolutely no idea of their role in the team or how brutes work.
brutes are there to make a royal mess of things and dish out damage the messier things get. a stalker is there to kill the toughies before they pose a problem for the team.
in short, if you explain to the stalker players how fury works and why you as a brute need to take the alpha hits, and they still insist on 'scouting' (which any good stalker only does if/when the team lead says to) and starting fights, etc, give them the boot. to the head. and make sure to let them know that you did it to generate fury that would've been already there had they a freakin' clue.
[edit: it may help to explain to the stalker that they should, being hidden, get into melee range of their target and start their assassin's strike as the brute charges in and gets hit.]
"Scrappers don't want the bit of dignity that Brutes left them taken away by (lol)Stalkers." -Delta_Strider, on Stalker buffs.
Current Project: Hard Goodbye, StJ/Nin
Retired: Blitzwulf, Claws/Nin (50); Perdition's Blade, Night Widow (50)
Why is the stalker striking first? Let the brute charge in, get some aggro, and gain fury while the Stalker uses his Assassin's Strike after the alpha strike is gone. Not only is this safer for the stalker, it gives the brute his much needed fury to perform at his best. Statistically, the stalker "looses" nothing by not perform AS first, while the brute does.
Well, if I'm on anything else but my Brute we do let the stalker(s) strike first. Our Cap SF mowed through everything including each boss individually using 2 stalkers as the first strike component. It worked great.
I think this particular stalker I ran with this weekend probably thinks that's the way it should always be because he's never run with a brute before (I'm 1 of 2 in the whole group). I don't know any better either to tell the truth... it just felt wrong.
But I was unsure because it sure seems nearly impossible for him to line up an assassin's strike in the moving mass around my Brute if I strike first. I'm thinking that makes him frustrated and that's why I'm asking here. Maybe I should get a stalker's perspective.
At any rate, I'll talk to him tomorrow when he comes over. I appreciate any insight I can get.
Well, as long as the stalker is in range for Assassin's Strike when he starts, he'll hit it no matter how far they move after.
That's good to know. Maybe we just need to work on timing.
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Why is the stalker striking first? Let the brute charge in, get some aggro, and gain fury while the Stalker uses his Assassin's Strike after the alpha strike is gone. Not only is this safer for the stalker, it gives the brute his much needed fury to perform at his best. Statistically, the stalker "looses" nothing by not perform AS first, while the brute does.
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Ideally, the stalker starts the AS animation before the brute arrives, but the brute has aggro by the time it goes off.
I've played the stalker in a team like this and it works, may mean the brute has to leave the previous group before it's 100% dead.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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Well, as long as the stalker is in range for Assassin's Strike when he starts, he'll hit it no matter how far they move after.
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As long the target doesn't break line of sight
Imagine AS as a Blaster's snipe. It has an interruptable phase then it only matters if you have a clear shot. Also if your stalker is getting hit and it is causing him to not be able to pull of an AS it sounds like he is not a defense based secondary and does not have Hide slotted for defense.
Hide slotte dout for defense will give mobs a 5% chance tohit him with AoE splash damage. The only thing that should interfear at that point would be some debuffs that are auto hit.
Lets also nto forget AS is not the only thing a Stalker can do for a team. With the damage changes a while back Stalkers hit very hard when not hidden. The AS is just the heaviest attacks of the ones they are given but limiting Stalker play to only BU+AS+Placate+[insert attack here] is not only limiting the Stalkers damage outout but his contribution to the team.
I remember when CoV first started people seemed to have the mindset that Stalkser were there to hit and run. Before the damage increase some sets did not function to well outside of hide when it came to damage. This is not the case anymore.
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I'm looking for some tactical advice.
In my SG almost everyone has at least 1 stalker. I only have a Dominator, Mastermind, and Brute. Needless to say that when I team up the chances of me ending up with a stalker is very high.
The team dynamic of Dominator and Mastermind paired with a Stalker, or my Brute with anything else, is simple enough. We figured that out a long time ago.
The team dynamic of having both a Brute and a stalker(s) in a team continues to baffle me. I can't for the life of me think of a way the two can work together where everyone has fun.
The stalkers, because of their stealth, tend to run way ahead of me to "scout." That's fine with my mastermind and dominator because if they get a wild hair and strike I have ranged attacks and can contribute just fine. If that happens with my Brute I just have to sigh.
I'm not that fond of my brute to begin with but when the stalker is always taking first strike he also takes the aggro. I end up finishing the fight with my Fury bar never above about 25% and my contribution is minor to say the least.
If I strike first then that makes me feel useful but then he never, or rarely, gets his assassin's strike and I assume that makes him feel useless too. Generally by about half way through the mission it becomes a race to see who will take the aggro and that is hardly a good team dynamic.
I've tried charging just as his strike goes off but that doesn't help because of the distances involved. I've tried arriving as the strike hits but that is very hard to do without either interrupting the assassination or failing to get the alpha.
In short, I am basically never going to play my Brute with a Stalker again unless something is resolved. That probably means he won't get much play.
I've never had this problem with any random combination of hero AT's. It's only the Brute/Stalker combo that has me baffled.
Is there a way for both to have fun and use their inherent powers to their full potential? Or is this just a failed combination?
[/ QUOTE ]Sounds to me both of you got issues. Your fury issue fix is really easy. Just put brawl on autofire, if that doesnt give you near max fury I dont know could be going on. As for the stalker assasins strike issue make sure he is attacking the toughest (what has the most hit points) critter in the spawn first unless its av. Many stalkers I know waste their damage on a minion. The only time I can see doing that is if its something like a sapper or one of those healer surgeons. You go in to get the initial aggro and he ASes the boss. You should attack everything else that he isnt attacking and yall will do fine.
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Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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But I was unsure because it sure seems nearly impossible for him to line up an assassin's strike in the moving mass around my Brute if I strike first. I'm thinking that makes him frustrated and that's why I'm asking here. Maybe I should get a stalker's perspective.
[/ QUOTE ] I dont see how, just let him pick his target and when you run in thats when he should be hitting build up and AS so basically right after the initial alpha strike by you the AS goes off giving you a bit of a breather due to the AS fear effect. Its not that hard. Is that other guy a retard or something? Its very easy to AS moving targets. Once they are range when the attack is queued up it doesnt matter how far they run away so long as they dont break line of sight, it still should connect.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
The two stalkers in our Strike Force (our first together) were very impressive. It almost always meant two less in the enemy group when the rest of us let loose and I don't recall them going back into hide afterwards, they scrapped the rest of the battle with impressive results. I'm certainly not down on stalkers in a team just when teamed with my brute.
But I'm seeing that I probably need to communicate my position to him better and try to work on timing.
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Sounds to me both of you got issues. Your fury issue fix is really easy. Just put brawl on autofire, if that doesnt give you near max fury I dont know could be going on.
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I agree both of us most likely have issues, but I already have brawl on autofire. It still doesn't help that much. I'm thinking I really need the alpha to get a good start. I probably need some recharge in my attacks but I have enough endurance problems as it is.
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I dont see how, just let him pick his target and when you run in thats when he should be hitting build up and AS so basically right after the initial alpha strike by you the AS goes off giving you a bit of a breather due to the AS fear effect. Its not that hard. Is that other guy a retard or something? Its very easy to AS moving targets. Once they are range when the attack is queued up it doesnt matter how far they run away so long as they dont break line of sight, it still should connect.
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No, he's not retarded nor am I. It's just two guys who aren't familiar with how the other class works. What you outline is obviously the strategy we need to use and mainly we need to work on timing.
When I said that he can't seem to get off an AS after the fight starts was just my impression. For all I know he isn't even trying.
I just need to communicate with him better. He's coming over to my house tomorrow and that will be the time. He's terrible with the keyboard and trying to talk to him in-game is too frustrating for me to consider. It was easier to just let him do what he was doing and go on to something else asap.
Well when I'm bruting I'm ussually in a killing frenzy, moving group to group keeping my fury max with little effort. I generally pay little or no attention to the stalkers on the team assuming they will take care of self and do whatever it is they feel they do best. It sonds to me like you jsut had bad luck and teamed with stalkers that are not very good team players.
This is not to say they are not good stalkers. Stalkers are a very independant AT IMO, but a good team player wil know not to trigger ambushes and pull more aggro then a party can handle even if his urge to "scout" gets the best of him.
Long ago I got the Prima's Official Game guide, and while most of guide is outdated the role of stalker and teaming startegies may not be. This is from duoing with a brute/dom on your stalker and is considered best duo match up from Stalker point of view:
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These ATs are great for keeping the aggro away from you so you can strike from the shadows without risk. If you can reestablish stealth while the attention is not on you, you can make repeated Assasin Strikes. Brutes step up and take the damage as they thrive on aggro to build fury,whereas Doms lock down enemies w/ holds so you can get in cheap shots.
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Brutes also think Stalkers and Corruptors are prefered for teaming and it says this:
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This is a good pairing for fast and efficient street sweeping. You charge in and take all of the aggro from the minions while your buddy softens up the big bads. Then you rush in with your fury and finish them off.
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Grab taunt
That will get your fury going
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But I was unsure because it sure seems nearly impossible for him to line up an assassin's strike in the moving mass around my Brute if I strike first. I'm thinking that makes him frustrated and that's why I'm asking here. Maybe I should get a stalker's perspective.
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It shouldn't be a problem for the stalker. It could be the person playing a stalker is trying to play him like a scrapper. If this is the case you may want to recomend they roll a brute. The brute plays much more like a scrapper then a stalker does.
Another common mistake I see, is people used to blue side tend to want to play their brutes like tanks. Even some non-brutes expect it. I saw a post by someone on these boards that claimed he teamed with "bad" brutes that would not pause inbetween each fight to let party rest, when in fact the "bad" player would be the party that rushes after the brute when they should rest. Be assured that my brutes will not jump into anything they cannot handle and can (if not solo kill the next group) easily hold the aggro and remain alive while the party rests.
again from Prima's strategy guide"
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Brutes are often mistaken for tankers. They cannot cannot take the same kind of punishment. But they more then make up for their "glass jaws" by dishing out more pain and suffering once their rage kicks in.
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Maintening Fury is the brute's greatest strength- and his greatest weakness as he quickly moves from one fight to the next to keep his rage up. This can sometimes get his allies into trouble if they're not ready.
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I have to say the not waiting part is hard for me. Our group sticks together and supports each other as much as possible, going the speed of the slowest person. I wait but my stomach sinks as fast as my fury bar while we wait for the guy with zero endurance to rest up.
Of course, usually that's my brute. 
3-slotted stamina and 3-slotted end-red in all my attacks and at level 21 I'm only just now getting to where I can run for long. I almost deleted him every level from about 13th on.
I don't suppose there is a mace guide... anywhere? I want to be pretty and strong too. 
<QR>
The issues have already been addressed above if you're staying together; it's a timing issue and a Stalker + Brute actually makes a good combination - you keep mobs off of him so he can use AS without interruption and he gets bonus criticals from you both being melee characters, and the Stalker takes out a few things quickly to help your overall kill speed.
Another approach, especially once you both have SOs, is to simply split up and each of you clear the spawns solo - missions go faster and the exp pours in, and when properly built each of those ATs should be able to handle a spawn for two without issues (even without SOs, really - my friend and I were doing this with two level 21 Stalkers - Spines/SR and MA/Regen). So even if you can't get the timing right, you can still help each other simply by going your own way and doing your own things. 
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
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Of course, usually that's my brute. 3-slotted stamina and 3-slotted end-red in all my attacks and at level 21 I'm only just now getting to where I can run for long
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yeah in the early level you are forced to wait and pause much more then higher levels. This of course kills your fury bar and gimps your damage. For me that is because early levels all my attention goes into attacks. Offense as best defense approach. By late 20s or early 30s you will have most of your key def/res and will find hopping group to group and keeping fury up not only very easy but alot of fun.
I'm looking for some tactical advice.
In my SG almost everyone has at least 1 stalker. I only have a Dominator, Mastermind, and Brute. Needless to say that when I team up the chances of me ending up with a stalker is very high.
The team dynamic of Dominator and Mastermind paired with a Stalker, or my Brute with anything else, is simple enough. We figured that out a long time ago.
The team dynamic of having both a Brute and a stalker(s) in a team continues to baffle me. I can't for the life of me think of a way the two can work together where everyone has fun.
The stalkers, because of their stealth, tend to run way ahead of me to "scout." That's fine with my mastermind and dominator because if they get a wild hair and strike I have ranged attacks and can contribute just fine. If that happens with my Brute I just have to sigh.
I'm not that fond of my brute to begin with but when the stalker is always taking first strike he also takes the aggro. I end up finishing the fight with my Fury bar never above about 25% and my contribution is minor to say the least.
If I strike first then that makes me feel useful but then he never, or rarely, gets his assassin's strike and I assume that makes him feel useless too. Generally by about half way through the mission it becomes a race to see who will take the aggro and that is hardly a good team dynamic.
I've tried charging just as his strike goes off but that doesn't help because of the distances involved. I've tried arriving as the strike hits but that is very hard to do without either interrupting the assassination or failing to get the alpha.
In short, I am basically never going to play my Brute with a Stalker again unless something is resolved. That probably means he won't get much play.
I've never had this problem with any random combination of hero AT's. It's only the Brute/Stalker combo that has me baffled.
Is there a way for both to have fun and use their inherent powers to their full potential? Or is this just a failed combination?