Set Suggestion: Optic Blast/Optic Manipulation
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-06-14 20:49 in Suggestions and Ideas
Oh, the copyright nightmare that would arise from this...
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its pretty OP to be honest. but i like how the name of the snipe was stolen from the name of the alien sniper rifle in perfect dark for N64.
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Never played it; farsight comes from "farsighted" and the close range attack was at one point "nearsight" in my head anyway, but that sounded silly. Farsight still sounded cool for the snipe though, so it stayed.
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realistically u have too many toggles, blasters are more pew pew then turning on a switch.
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It's a little different than existing sets, sure, but I consider that a good thing. The toggles in the primary are very unique, and there's just the one in the secondary. The naturally low animation times of the set helps to offset the lower number of "clicky" powers, allowing for the toggles.
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also the "speed is faster than other sets" wouldn't work because blaster powers speed has been normailized.
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That was done for balance, with defiance 2.0 in mind. The animation time bonus of the set would need to be carefully balanced around that, of course, and keep in mind the animation time bonus is this set's "special" ability, akin to fire's added damage, or archery's bonus accuracy.
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any set that has a team tp in it is doomed to fail, as stats show team teleport is the most under used power in the entire game with 0.001% of players having it.
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It's also an AoE attack, so it's useful beyond the team teleport aspect. I also question your stats: Recall Ally is quite common, so common I'm often surprised if nobody on the team actually has it.
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Oh, the copyright nightmare that would arise from this...
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The game survived the Marvel suit with Claws/Regen still in game. This is certainly no worse.
And anyway, it's a trademark issue, not copyright.
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Oh, the copyright nightmare that would arise from this...
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The game survived the Marvel suit with Claws/Regen still in game. This is certainly no worse.
And anyway, it's a trademark issue, not copyright.
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Ya got me there, it's trademark.
Let me cut to the chase, then. How many other super-heroes can you think of off the top of your head, that use predominatly ocular-based focused energy projection? I can think of maybe 3-4 other examples, granted, but none of them revolved purely on focused energy projection (specifically concussive or laser-like energy projection), and instead a fair few actually used various mind-altering or psionic rays (something you can already replicate given the specific animations used by Psionic Blast and Mental Manipulation).
Throwing a further monkey wrench into the works, do we really need yet another energy-based Blaster (or defender/corrupter) set? Radiation Blast will be proliferated at some point (and does include an eye beam), and there's already Energy Blast (mix of smash/energy), Electric Blast (mostly pure energy), Sonic Blast (you'd have had more weight bringing that up in your argument against, to be honest), and should the developers feel so inclined as to flesh out and make it possible, Pulse Rifle (used by Masterminds; It's only got 3 attacks [two ST and a TAoE], but the rest of the robots also have a number of attacks that could be transferred over to flesh out the set). Thematically, while none of these can originate from the head-area, they do a very thorough job (that's an opinion, partially factual in an analysis but still a subjective one) of covering all of the ranged energy blast needs, don't they?
What, specifically, other then a few playstyle tricks, does your idea give that necessarily differentiates it that much from any of the above? And then there's also the bigger problem of the very limited conceptual focus of the set itself (that being very specifically designed beams fired from the eyes), whereas all of the above (with the possible mention of Sonic - and I do hope they let you adjust that when/if power customization comes along) are far more open to a wider variety of concepts (though at the current time causing a few others to sideline).
To sum it up: Why, in particular, do you want ocular energy beams, when with a little hand-waving (and maybe some day in the future, a little actual tweaking) you can already cover the concept?
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Ya got me there, it's trademark.
Let me cut to the chase, then. How many other super-heroes can you think of off the top of your head, that use predominatly ocular-based focused energy projection? I can think of maybe 3-4 other examples, granted, but none of them revolved purely on focused energy projection
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I suppose there's GazerBeam from the Incredibles. That said, a huge portion of characters use them as part of a wider array of powers: Superman, Darkseid, a bunch of guys from DBZ, and so on. The argument could be made here that the current EPP selections allows for that, but that's not the point: the point is there's no intellectual property rights at stake here.
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Throwing a further monkey wrench into the works, do we really need yet another energy-based Blaster (or defender/corrupter) set?
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There is no Fire/Energy set available right now, but I'm not overly concerned with damage types (if that were a major concern I don't think we'd be expecting dual pistols, yet another lethal blast set, and yet there it is) I'm more concerned with playstyle.
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What, specifically, other then a few playstyle tricks, does your idea give that necessarily differentiates it that much from any of the above? And then there's also the bigger problem of the very limited conceptual focus of the set itself (that being very specifically designed beams fired from the eyes), whereas all of the above (with the possible mention of Sonic - and I do hope they let you adjust that when/if power customization comes along) are far more open to a wider variety of concepts (though at the current time causing a few others to sideline).
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Playstyle is what it's all about: there's only one AoE attack in the set, I'm fairly sure that's entirely unique. The set instead relies of the bounce mechanic to deal with crowds, and before that the ability to attack your foes faster via the animation time bonus.
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To sum it up: Why, in particular, do you want ocular energy beams, when with a little hand-waving (and maybe some day in the future, a little actual tweaking) you can already cover the concept?
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Really, you can't cover the concept at all. To me, pretending energy blasts are coming out of my eyes, or that psychic blasts are energy blasts just doesn't do it.
The set is more than just eye beams to make it unique: It's a blast set with a single target focus (most blast sets have 3 AoEs, I think only Psi is as low as 2), it makes extensive use of the bounce mechanic (currently only used by one power in a melee set), it has a damage dealing foe-targeted toggle (of which none exist) and has an animation-time decrease as an explicit bonus (significant for blast sets, which are fairly standard in this respect.)
All these things make the most sense (to me) for laser-beam-type attacks. Short of an actual laser weapon, the most appropriate place I can think of for beams to emanate from are the eyes.
So why beams? I imagine a pulse rifle or similar laser set could be just as good, without having eyes brought into the equation. Or should I bring up the long list of photokinetics (Doctor Light [DC] and Dazzler [Marvel], off the top of my head) that do focused light energy blasts? What about Luminous Blast, from Peacebringers? Technically speaking, that's the exact same thing.
And then there's the Legacy Chain - most of their animations use Energy Blast (recolored), but have differing damage components (and a -def component, making them more in-line with Luminous Blast, as mentioned)?
Does it really ruin things that much for you if they don't come from the eyes at all? Why are the eyes the most appropriate in a world where steam powered robots fire bullets and have flamethrowers, skinhead neo-Nazis decked out with cybernetics and tesla coils terrorize the streets, psychic aliens wielding giant energy cannons and energy swords assail the world, all while shamanistic priests summon up old World War or Civil War zombies to do their bidding? Have you somehow not heard of, say, someone picking up a gauntlet with a built-in laser?
I'm all for more options, mang, but you seem hung up on this optic blast thing, and that's swimmin' dangerously into trademark territory. The set's unique, I'll give it that, but the eye-theme seems more forced then anything else.
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So why beams? I imagine a pulse rifle or similar laser set could be just as good, without having eyes brought into the equation.
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Why not? I don't agree with the trademark issue, not with the sets the game already has which already closely mirror existing IP, and the game already surviving a lawsuit over those. You can't trademark superpowers, in general. Trademarks don't work that way.
In a perfect world, we'd have full power customization, and these beams could come from a gun, or hands, or eyes, or magic wand, as could any of the other flavors of powers depending on what the player wants to see. Since we don't have full customization, I'd like to see a blast set that comes predominantly from the eyes, as opposed to always coming from the hands or a weapon. We have a ton of hand and weapon sets, I'd like to see something different.
I'm not a fan of it, if not only because it is a pigeonhole powerset (re: Cyclops clones), but also because 2 of the powers in your primary wouldn't work in the game engine as it is now (Reflection and Stare Down), but you're also operating off of some flawed assumptions about the Blaster power sets.
Blaster powersets already have a very heavy emphasis on single target damage. Discounting traditional nukes (which are, by design, not really supposed to be counted because they're all generally special case), Blaster power sets actually tend to have 2 rather than 3 AoEs specifically designed for damage. Electrical Blast, Energy Blast, Ice Blast, Psychic Blast, and Sonic Blast all have only 2 AoEs. Ice only has 1 if you don't count Ice Storm, and Fire only has 2 unless you count Rain of Fire. Archery has 3 because they've got crashless nukes which provide it with a third, hard hitting, real, functional AoE that the sets are actually balanced around elsewhere. Assault Rifle is, by sheer weirdness of design, an exception. It's got either 4 or 5 depending on whether you consider Ignite to be an AoE or not (it's like Burn).
Next, for a Blaster primary powerset, the control power (re: Optic Overload) is supposed to be low damage. You don't get to have 2 high damage (re: tier 3) powers, especially if one of them is the control power of the set. If you purposefully excluded a control power for design reasons, you're getting in on Fire's design, which, I'm sure Castle wants to avoid (Fire is already a disproportionate favorite of the player base). Optic Overload should be a minor damage attack most likely or a moderate damage attack at the highest (though Ice only gets away with it by replacing the second real AoE with a more highly damaging control power).
As to the secondary, you're including too massive non-activation powers. Depth Perception is just brokenly strong (multi-tier debuff resistance and a range buff, all of which can't be taken off?). X-Ray Vision, assuming you're trying to have it work as a replacement for Build Up, isn't going to work very well either. Targeting Drone is the only BU power available to blasters that isn't activated, and it's pretty well nerfed into the ground to account for that. The numbers on both of those (especially Depth Perception) would be brought down so hard that they're only barely noticeable. There's just too many non-traditional powers for the set to be balanced around. Confuse (which only exists in a very minor form in Mental Manipulation), Sleep (which is only in a single set and that set's tier 9), -regen (in the high damage melee no less), sleep, multiple debuffs, several self buffs, a team teleport AoE attack thing, and only 2 traditional damage powers (I'm ignoring beacon because the team teleport would severely hinder its actual functionality, not to mention what it does makes next to no sense in the confines of the power) when the rest of the sets aim for at least 4. You took all of the weird support and funkiness from Devices and fused it with the stronger powers of Energy Manipulation and Mental Manipulation while seeming to cherry pick only the most powerful aspects from all three.
Concerning the stuff that just won't happen for engine reasons, you may want to actually think about how those powers would need to be implemented to have effects like that. To get Reflection to work how you want it (Chain Induction style leaping for all of the single target attacks that are all of different strength and decrease in strength as they continue to leap), you'd need to create an entire suite of individual power leaps that all have different damage. The problem with this is that you want the jumps to be unlimited (which is not gonna happen simply because it would completely avoid the target cap), the summoned pet would need to summon itself and, if that happens, there's no way for the damage and accuracy to diminish per target. All of this completely ignores the fact that you're, functionally, turning all of the single target attacks into AoE, or at least multi-target, attacks, which is completely counter to the intended design, as well as being completely broken because it's not doing anything to the power's actual costs to account for the huge additional utility (AoEs and ST attacks have completely different DPE and DPR equations).
Staredown is impossible because it's impossible to prevent a player from changing targets. The only existing mechanic to do so would be Taunt, but it's impossible to Taunt yourself to a target. It doesn't help that you're pretty much creating a "toggle on and leave your chair" situation because the damage is all done via the toggle rather than via actual player interaction. It doesn't help that you're trying to create a power that exists outside of the standard conventions for Tier 9 powers, which is going to take a significant amount of other working around to account for (look at Assault Rifle and Archery for examples of this).
What really kills the entire power set idea for me, though, is the fact that you don't really have any reason for the set to be Optic Blasts aside from a few power names (which don't really have any bearing on the game really). It could just as easily be Laser Blast and not be such a visual and thematic pigeonhole, especially since there's no real reason I can comprehend why Optic Blasts would need to be fire/energy damage rather than any other kind of damage.
Thoroughly /unsigned.
I think Stare Down is a very intriguing idea, probably because it isnt supported by the game engine currently. It makes the set more than just a clone of Energy Blast with different graphics.
How would you fire off other attacks while using it? I'm guessing the animations here are pretty minimal, just visor touching and looking rather than full body or arm swings.
So the Stare Down beam continues and the other power you trigger fires off inside that beam?
It could make for some pretty dull fights though - point, aim, watch health bars and energy bars move and make sure the right ones crash first or disengage.
Reflection is a cool idea too. I like the idea of a modifier toggle that changes other powers as they are used.
Change the name to trademark infringement blast and I'll /sign.
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...2 of the powers in your primary wouldn't work in the game engine as it is now (Reflection and Stare Down)... Concerning the stuff that just won't happen for engine reasons, you may want to actually think about how those powers would need to be implemented to have effects like that. To get Reflection to work how you want it (Chain Induction style leaping for all of the single target attacks that are all of different strength and decrease in strength as they continue to leap), you'd need to create an entire suite of individual power leaps that all have different damage. The problem with this is that you want the jumps to be unlimited (which is not gonna happen simply because it would completely avoid the target cap), the summoned pet would need to summon itself and, if that happens, there's no way for the damage and accuracy to diminish per target.
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The bounce mechanic: all that's required for this to work is for the attack power, on hitting, to summon a pet which will execute the same attack a second time. If that summon is automatically -1 to the summoner, then the first jump will be -1, the second will be -2, the third -3 and so on. While technically unlimited, this means that unless you are fighting very weak opponents, as soon as you hit 3 or 4 enemies the to-hit is going to drop off severely, not to mention the damage of each attack. There's no reason bounce can't work in the engine as-is.
Staredown is, granted, more complicated, and would require additional coding.
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, but you're also operating off of some flawed assumptions about the Blaster power sets.
Blaster powersets already have a very heavy emphasis on single target damage. Discounting traditional nukes (which are, by design, not really supposed to be counted because they're all generally special case), Blaster power sets actually tend to have 2 rather than 3 AoEs specifically designed for damage. Electrical Blast, Energy Blast, Ice Blast, Psychic Blast, and Sonic Blast all have only 2 AoEs. Ice only has 1 if you don't count Ice Storm, and Fire only has 2 unless you count Rain of Fire. Archery has 3 because they've got crashless nukes which provide it with a third, hard hitting, real, functional AoE that the sets are actually balanced around elsewhere. Assault Rifle is, by sheer weirdness of design, an exception. It's got either 4 or 5 depending on whether you consider Ignite to be an AoE or not (it's like Burn).
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I'm not sure why you wouldn't count Rain of Fire or Ice Storm as AoEs. At any rate, I'm aware there's a range: some sets focus more on AoE than others, and this set was designed for more single-target focus than is currently available.
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Next, for a Blaster primary powerset, the control power (re: Optic Overload) is supposed to be low damage. You don't get to have 2 high damage (re: tier 3) powers, especially if one of them is the control power of the set. If you purposefully excluded a control power for design reasons, you're getting in on Fire's design, which, I'm sure Castle wants to avoid (Fire is already a disproportionate favorite of the player base). Optic Overload should be a minor damage attack most likely or a moderate damage attack at the highest (though Ice only gets away with it by replacing the second real AoE with a more highly damaging control power).
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All sets are different, and you noted some examples yourself, though looking at it, perhaps Moderate damage would be most appropriate. Ice and Psi both have control powers that deal moderate damage (though hold and sleep are stronger controls than knockback, I'll note.)
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As to the secondary, you're including too massive non-activation powers. Depth Perception is just brokenly strong (multi-tier debuff resistance and a range buff, all of which can't be taken off?).
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A few points: Note that I didn't list any numbers at all for this power, leaving it wide open to balance. The range boost would be less than the click available via /Energy. Range debuffs are rare (Tsoo sorcerers being about the only ones that use them that I can think of) as are perception debuffs (certain Arachnos enemies) so neither are huge performance concerns. The to-hit resistance would be useful, but not IMO, game breaking. Keep in mind this set does not have buildup, and has no +to hit, so resiting to hit debuffs seems like a fair trade off.
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X-Ray Vision, assuming you're trying to have it work as a replacement for Build Up, isn't going to work very well either. Targeting Drone is the only BU power available to blasters that isn't activated, and it's pretty well nerfed into the ground to account for that.
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It would be balanced around being a toggle, yes, so it would provide less damage than build-up, and no to-hit bonus.
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The numbers on both of those (especially Depth Perception) would be brought down so hard that they're only barely noticeable.
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As a passive, yes, DP would be less effective than toggle or click powers of a similar nature.
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There's just too many non-traditional powers for the set to be balanced around.
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I think powersets should be significantly different from each other. Devices is very different from Energy which is different from Mental. This is a good thing.
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Confuse (which only exists in a very minor form in Mental Manipulation),
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Double Vision is not a 100% confuse, the main focus of the power is the -range.
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Sleep (which is only in a single set and that set's tier 9)
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Sonic blast has an AoE sleep available in teir 7, but point taken, that might be too useful.
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-regen (in the high damage melee no less)
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-regen of of dubious value. You'd need it rarely in a normal encounter (maybe vs arachnoids) and AVs/GMs resist it heavily. Plus, it is a melee attack, requiring you to get close to said AV/GM. Again, no "numbers" listed, easily balanceable.
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multiple debuffs, several self buffs, a team teleport AoE attack thing, and only 2 traditional damage powers
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Devices has no traditional attack powers, I'll note. They aren't a requirement.
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(I'm ignoring beacon because the team teleport would severely hinder its actual functionality, not to mention what it does makes next to no sense in the confines of the power)
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It's an attack power: solo the teleport is irrelevant, and in a team your allies can simply refuse it.
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You took all of the weird support and funkiness from Devices and fused it with the stronger powers of Energy Manipulation and Mental Manipulation while seeming to cherry pick only the most powerful aspects from all three.
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There's no to-hit buff. The confuse is an unreliable side-effect of a debuff with situational use. There's no power-boost, no build-up, just a weaker +damage toggle. It is debuff-heavy compared to other sets, granted, but the self-buffs are weak and it's low on damage. I think it's fairly well balanced, though perhaps the AoE sleep could be moved later in the set or otherwise changed.
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All of this completely ignores the fact that you're, functionally, turning all of the single target attacks into AoE, or at least multi-target, attacks, which is completely counter to the intended design, as well as being completely broken because it's not doing anything to the power's actual costs to account for the huge additional utility (AoEs and ST attacks have completely different DPE and DPR equations).
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So an idea for balance: Have the toggle increase the end cost of the powers as well.
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Staredown is impossible because it's impossible to prevent a player from changing targets.
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Again, yes, some additional coding would be needed.
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The only existing mechanic to do so would be Taunt, but it's impossible to Taunt yourself to a target.
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That's actually not a bad idea.
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It doesn't help that you're pretty much creating a "toggle on and leave your chair" situation because the damage is all done via the toggle rather than via actual player interaction.
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You can still fire your other attacks. I think it's well balanced by the self-root and the "self taunt" effect.
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It doesn't help that you're trying to create a power that exists outside of the standard conventions for Tier 9 powers, which is going to take a significant amount of other working around to account for (look at Assault Rifle and Archery for examples of this).
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Again, I feel that existing outside the conventions is a plus. The teir 9 is still highly situational, best used in a team. While most teir 9s focus on an anti-crowd ability, this is more of an anti-boss power. Very different, yes.
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What really kills the entire power set idea for me, though, is the fact that you don't really have any reason for the set to be Optic Blasts aside from a few power names (which don't really have any bearing on the game really). It could just as easily be Laser Blast and not be such a visual and thematic pigeonhole, especially since there's no real reason I can comprehend why Optic Blasts would need to be fire/energy damage rather than any other kind of damage.
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And again, we already have a ton of hand and weapon origin sets. Sonic is mouth-origin, psi is head-origin, but we don't have an eye-origin set, and I'd like one. That's all.
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Change the name to trademark infringement blast and I'll /sign.
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Only if claws is changed to trademark infringement melee.
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I think Stare Down is a very intriguing idea, probably because it isnt supported by the game engine currently. It makes the set more than just a clone of Energy Blast with different graphics.
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Exactly my goal.
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How would you fire off other attacks while using it? I'm guessing the animations here are pretty minimal, just visor touching and looking rather than full body or arm swings.
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Yes, exactly. Locked in place, and unable to target anything else, your head would be locked towards your target. The other blasts would animate normally, while the thin lasers of staredown would just always be on.
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So the Stare Down beam continues and the other power you trigger fires off inside that beam?
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The staredown beam would be smaller, actually, but yes that's the general idea.
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It could make for some pretty dull fights though - point, aim, watch health bars and energy bars move and make sure the right ones crash first or disengage.
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It's a situational power. Basically, if you're using it, chances are the fight is just pouring on the damage anyway, either because everything is locked down by allies or a tank has aggro.
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Reflection is a cool idea too. I like the idea of a modifier toggle that changes other powers as they are used.
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Thanks for the feedback.
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Change the name to trademark infringement blast and I'll /sign.
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Only if claws is changed to trademark infringement melee.
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Except there are a number of characters whose attack methods include claws. Wolverine is one of many. Sabretooth, Darkhawk, Lady Deathstrike, The Lizard, Daken, X-23, and a whole lot more than I can think of off the top of my head, and that's just Marvel.
How many characters have optic blasts as their PRIMARY power or point of origin for their powers? Superman, Gladiator, and Sentry off the top of my head use optic blasts as well, but they aren't the only ability they have. Cyclops has ONE power, his optic blast, which he uses creatively to achieve varied goals. Which is pretty much what you are suggesting here.
Add in the fact that an exact copy of Cyclops's visor already exists in-game and you will have SLEWS of clones created, perhaps enough that Marvel will try a lawsuit again, and if they get a different judge who deems that a trademark has been sufficiently infringed upon, they may win. The fact that a set like this would be earning NCSoft money in an indirect fashion just adds to the dilemma. The chances of a successful lawsuit increase if the optic blast set you suggest happens to be red in color. And yes, they COULD sue again, because it would be a different trademark they would be suing over.
"Claws" and "Regeneration" cover a wide range of effects. My main character happens to be claws/regen. He is a cyborg who uses energy blades and nanomachines to achieve his powers, no correlation to Wolverine at all. With optic based blasts you are limited in your power effects. If they happen to be red it is impossible to NOT have the set copy Cyclops's powers exactly, no matter how you explain it, in appearance at least. I would be okay with a set that INCLUDES an optic blast, but not one that is STRICTLY an optic blast.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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The bounce mechanic: all that's required for this to work is for the attack power, on hitting, to summon a pet which will execute the same attack a second time. If that summon is automatically -1 to the summoner, then the first jump will be -1, the second will be -2, the third -3 and so on. While technically unlimited, this means that unless you are fighting very weak opponents, as soon as you hit 3 or 4 enemies the to-hit is going to drop off severely, not to mention the damage of each attack. There's no reason bounce can't work in the engine as-is.
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That's an interesting solution to the problem, but I'm not entirely sure it's possible. The only evidence I've seen of pets that aren't the level of their originator are the multiple summon pets though, I'm not sure if a reiterative method similar to the existing level variability is actually possible within the confines of the engine. I'm not going to say it's concrete either way, but I'm doubtful, since the closest similar mechanic to this (Chain Induction) uses a simpler and less variable mechanic.
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I'm not sure why you wouldn't count Rain of Fire or Ice Storm as AoEs. At any rate, I'm aware there's a range: some sets focus more on AoE than others, and this set was designed for more single-target focus than is currently available.
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I wouldn't count Rain of Fire or Ice Storm as AoEs because they don't apply within the same confines as the traditional AoEs. They're more akin to area effects than they are to real AoEs, which is why I was iffy on it. As to your "single target emphasis", you directly contradict that by having the Reflection power. You want a set that is heavily single target focused (like Ice Blast), but also capable of obscene levels of AoE damage thanks to the ability to convert all of the single target attacks into AoE attacks. You're working at cross purposes there.
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All sets are different, and you noted some examples yourself, though looking at it, perhaps Moderate damage would be most appropriate. Ice and Psi both have control powers that deal moderate damage (though hold and sleep are stronger controls than knockback, I'll note.)
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I'm considering Power Push to be a better match for the power than TK Blast or Bitter Freeze Ray. TK Blast and BFR get passes because they're not the control power of the set. Psy Blast has Scramble Thoughts and Ice Blast has Freeze Ray as their basic control power. Without a designated control power, you're entering into the Fire Blast realm of specialization, which I don't believe is a path Castle wants to continue along.
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A few points: Note that I didn't list any numbers at all for this power, leaving it wide open to balance. The range boost would be less than the click available via /Energy. Range debuffs are rare (Tsoo sorcerers being about the only ones that use them that I can think of) as are perception debuffs (certain Arachnos enemies) so neither are huge performance concerns. The to-hit resistance would be useful, but not IMO, game breaking. Keep in mind this set does not have buildup, and has no +to hit, so resiting to hit debuffs seems like a fair trade off.
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The entire problem I have with it being a passive, aside from that it does so much (and it does do a lot for a passive), is that it's a passive within a manipulation set. The Blaster secondaries are not self buff sets. Castle has stated that he finds the self buff mechanics in the Blaster secondaries the hardest to stomach and hardest to balance. Blasters are supposed to be about damage and damage with a little bit of control, not damage and self buffing with a little bit of damage and control.
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It would be balanced around being a toggle, yes, so it would provide less damage than build-up, and no to-hit bonus.
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Consider Targeting Drone, which is a toggle and is balanced against Build Up. The buff you describe, almost exclusive of numbers, is going to be better than Targeting Drone.
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I think powersets should be significantly different from each other. Devices is very different from Energy which is different from Mental. This is a good thing.
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Once again, look at stuff like Power Boost and other non-traditional powers. Castle hates them and has gone out of his way to avoid using them. You're packing the entire set with powers that would require a similar level of attention and difficulty in balance from Castle. Different does not mean good. From a balance perspective, different most often means ridiculously hard to balance because it's even harder to determine equivalence. This is why all of the power sets actually follow a similar design. The significant differences are in the few powers that are supposed to be different thanks to the incorporated variability in the basic design.
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Double Vision is not a 100% confuse, the main focus of the power is the -range.
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Having a ranged AoE with significant -range (it should be significant if it's the focus of the power) along with the ability to pump your own range with a passive is just asking for a broken combination. It will return to the days of hover sniping. The only AT that have substantial -range debuffs are those that want to be in melee. You're giving a ranged AT the ability to cripple the range of their enemies. Bad Idea.
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Sonic blast has an AoE sleep available in teir 7, but point taken, that might be too useful.
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Forgot about that one. Thanks for catching that.
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-regen of of dubious value. You'd need it rarely in a normal encounter (maybe vs arachnoids) and AVs/GMs resist it heavily. Plus, it is a melee attack, requiring you to get close to said AV/GM.
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I'm curious as to why you think everything is going to be "easily balanceable". Balance is never an easy process, especially when you're involving all kinds of weird and off the wall mechanics for doing things. Also, if you're going to consider -regen such a minor debuff, why even have it on there at all? If it's not going to do much, you might as well just put an extra DoT on there. The "it's melee so it's allowed to be stronger" argument doesn't really work. Energy Melee and Electrical Melee don't get disproportionate secondary benefits from their strong melee attacks. In fact, they've been brought in line.
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Devices has no traditional attack powers, I'll note. They aren't a requirement.
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*/Devices also breaks all of the other rules for the design of the blaster secondaries. Claiming an outlier as a reason why your set operates within the traditional confines of the power set isn't really a logical argument.
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It's an attack power: solo the teleport is irrelevant, and in a team your allies can simply refuse it.
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So you think that the teleporting your entire group to you every 20 seconds or so (because it's an attack, like you said, and follows those formulas) isn't going to get annoying? You're pretty much requiring everyone on a team with a person that uses this secondary to turn on the teleport prompt, unless they're okay with having the Blaster bounce them around 3-4 times every group.
It still doesn't address how optic blasts actually teleport his friends around him though. Sure he might make a beacon, but how are his eye blasts, that have, until now, only shown the ability to burn and push, teleporting everyone to him? The teleport doesn't make thematic sense.
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There's no to-hit buff. The confuse is an unreliable side-effect of a debuff with situational use. There's no power-boost, no build-up, just a weaker +damage toggle. It is debuff-heavy compared to other sets, granted, but the self-buffs are weak and it's low on damage. I think it's fairly well balanced, though perhaps the AoE sleep could be moved later in the set or otherwise changed.
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-Range is not a minor debuff, nor would it be situational considering the native range buff, the fact that it's AoE, and that it's being used by a range damage intensive AT. There's a reason Taunt and Confront are much more useful with it. There's also a reason that the Blaster secondaries are very debuff light and the existing debuffs were significantly reduced in effectiveness when they were examined after launch. Debuffs for blasters are crazy strong, especially when combined with the level of control and self buffing you seem to want to give.
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So an idea for balance: Have the toggle increase the end cost of the powers as well.
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Though it still does nothing for the recharge or high levels of damage. AoEs and ST attacks follow completely different balance formulas. AoEs have longer recharge times, lower damage, and greater endurance costs. Plus, there's the fact that you're converting every ST attack from the primary. That's a full attack string of fully Defiancebuffing and Defiance capable attacks. That's not single target focus.
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Again, yes, some additional coding would be needed.
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"It would need to substantially change the game engine" is not an argument for why the power is viable.
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That's actually not a bad idea....
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You're ignoring what I'm actually saying aren't you? I just told you that it's impossible to have an effect that Taunts yourself to a target because you would need to force the target to Taunt you, which the game can't.
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You can still fire your other attacks. I think it's well balanced by the self-root and the "self taunt" effect.
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You're misreading what I was saying. I never meant anything about not being able to attack. I meant being able to click one button and then walk away, which it would allow for. Plus, it's a substantial amount of animationless damage, which, considering the low potency of the damage auras, is powerful effect.
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Again, I feel that existing outside the conventions is a plus. The teir 9 is still highly situational, best used in a team. While most teir 9s focus on an anti-crowd ability, this is more of an anti-boss power. Very different, yes.
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There are reasons that the conventions work. They're there for balance. You can't easily compare a defender primary to a tanker primary. They're not the same. The same applies within power sets. Hell, the numerous rebalancings of Full Auto and Rain of Arrows, which were designed against the convention of the tier 9 demonstrate how much effort is required that those powers at least followed it somewhat. Defying convention is alright, but going way out in left field is substantially less than alright.
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And again, we already have a ton of hand and weapon origin sets. Sonic is mouth-origin, psi is head-origin, but we don't have an eye-origin set, and I'd like one. That's all.
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Sonic and psi at least have reasons for being specifically anatomically focused. Mouth = voice = sonic blasts. Head = brain = psionic blasts (though, the set actually has a number of attacks that don't have any relation to the head). How do lasers thematically apply to eyes outside of the already existing Laser Beam Eyes? It would make more sense to be attached to a weapon of some kind that simply stating "Lasers = eye blasts!".
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How would you fire off other attacks while using it? I'm guessing the animations here are pretty minimal, just visor touching and looking rather than full body or arm swings.
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Yes, exactly. Locked in place, and unable to target anything else, your head would be locked towards your target. The other blasts would animate normally, while the thin lasers of staredown would just always be on.
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So the Stare Down beam continues and the other power you trigger fires off inside that beam?
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The staredown beam would be smaller, actually, but yes that's the general idea.
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But if your gaze is "locked" on that other target, how can you "see" to fire off the other blasts - even ignoring the aesthetic objection I would have to having multiple "beams" coming from the eyes doing different things.
It would seem to me that if you were engaged in a Stare Down, you would be ignoring all other targets and therefore more vulnerable to attacks from other sources (such as the other foes in the spawn, who should now be more able to sneak up behind you and critically strike you, even those not Stalkers). You would not be aware enough of them to fire anything at them (or arguing that you could split your perception, it would be at a drastic -To Hit to represent your focus on the guy you are Staring Down.)
And the mental picture I get of two different "beams" coming from the eyes (even if one is graphically smaller than the other) is just hilarious, but not in a good way.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
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Change the name to trademark infringement blast and I'll /sign.
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Only if claws is changed to trademark infringement melee.
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Except there are a number of characters whose attack methods include claws. Wolverine is one of many. Sabretooth, Darkhawk, Lady Deathstrike, The Lizard, Daken, X-23, and a whole lot more than I can think of off the top of my head, and that's just Marvel.
How many characters have optic blasts as their PRIMARY power or point of origin for their powers? Superman, Gladiator, and Sentry off the top of my head use optic blasts as well, but they aren't the only ability they have. Cyclops has ONE power, his optic blast, which he uses creatively to achieve varied goals. Which is pretty much what you are suggesting here.
Add in the fact that an exact copy of Cyclops's visor already exists in-game and you will have SLEWS of clones created, perhaps enough that Marvel will try a lawsuit again, and if they get a different judge who deems that a trademark has been sufficiently infringed upon, they may win. The fact that a set like this would be earning NCSoft money in an indirect fashion just adds to the dilemma. The chances of a successful lawsuit increase if the optic blast set you suggest happens to be red in color. And yes, they COULD sue again, because it would be a different trademark they would be suing over.
"Claws" and "Regeneration" cover a wide range of effects. My main character happens to be claws/regen. He is a cyborg who uses energy blades and nanomachines to achieve his powers, no correlation to Wolverine at all. With optic based blasts you are limited in your power effects. If they happen to be red it is impossible to NOT have the set copy Cyclops's powers exactly, no matter how you explain it, in appearance at least. I would be okay with a set that INCLUDES an optic blast, but not one that is STRICTLY an optic blast.
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To put it simply, trademarks don't work that way. You can't trademark a single character trait. "Red eye beams" are not enough to violate a trademark any more than "Claws that look like Wolverine's" do.
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As to your "single target emphasis", you directly contradict that by having the Reflection power. You want a set that is heavily single target focused (like Ice Blast), but also capable of obscene levels of AoE damage thanks to the ability to convert all of the single target attacks into AoE attacks. You're working at cross purposes there.
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A bounce is less effective than standard AoEs because each to-hit roll is entirely dependent on all the other to-hit rolls occurring before that. Each bounce is inherently less likely than the last, even before you add the -1 mechanic. Each bounce gives you ANOTHER chance to miss, and with the -1 mechanic you'd be dealing less damage each time as well.
Lets assume you've got an 80% chance to hit a target with your first attack. Assuming the bounce has the same to-hit (it wouldn't, because it would be -1) then it has an 80% chance to hit as well. However, because the second attack requires the first attack hits, that means the second attack actually has a 64% chance to hit. The third strike has something like a 51% chance of hitting. Add into that the -1 mechanic and the third strike becomes highly unlikely, and the fourth strike almost impossible. Not comparable to the AoE ability of the other blast sets, and still leaving the set with it's single-target identity.
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I'm considering Power Push to be a better match for the power than TK Blast or Bitter Freeze Ray. TK Blast and BFR get passes because they're not the control power of the set.
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Wait, because those sets have more control they get to have more damage in their control powers? How does that make sense? These sets actually have two control powers with moderate damage, in ADDITION to the minor damage stun in psi.
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Psy Blast has Scramble Thoughts and Ice Blast has Freeze Ray as their basic control power. Without a designated control power, you're entering into the Fire Blast realm of specialization, which I don't believe is a path Castle wants to continue along.
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Fire is all damage, very little utility. This set isn't at that point, but yes, it approaches that end of the spectrum. I concede that Optic Overload should be moved to moderate damage, in line with Will Domination and Bitter Freeze Ray (while noting that a hold and sleep are more effective controls than knockback)
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The entire problem I have with it being a passive, aside from that it does so much (and it does do a lot for a passive), is that it's a passive within a manipulation set. The Blaster secondaries are not self buff sets. Castle has stated that he finds the self buff mechanics in the Blaster secondaries the hardest to stomach and hardest to balance. Blasters are supposed to be about damage and damage with a little bit of control, not damage and self buffing with a little bit of damage and control.
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The manipulation sets can be self buff sets, Energy Manipulation makes that pretty clear. This set is not on that level. If something exists in game that is even more focused on self-buffs than the proposed set, I'm not sure how you could say the proposed set is out of line. Yes, passives do not currently exist in Blaster sets, but I don't feel having one would be inherently hard to balance.
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Consider Targeting Drone, which is a toggle and is balanced against Build Up. The buff you describe, almost exclusive of numbers, is going to be better than Targeting Drone.
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We could compare the power against Assault as well. It's a toggle that gives the user +damage, resistance to taunt and placate, and gives these bonuses to allies as well. This power, by comparison, would only buff the caster, and would add perception.
If it's available via power pool, why not in a secondary? Seems like flawed logic.
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Once again, look at stuff like Power Boost and other non-traditional powers. Castle hates them and has gone out of his way to avoid using them.
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Castle hates power boost, but not "non traditional" powers. Mental Manipulation added a PBAoE confuse toggle to blasters under his watch: unheard of at the time, and highly non-traditional. He added the first bounce power to brutes, and gave that same set a powerful offensive teleport. He doesn't seem to mind coming up with new challenges for himself.
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Having a ranged AoE with significant -range (it should be significant if it's the focus of the power) along with the ability to pump your own range with a passive is just asking for a broken combination.
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Double Vision is not an AoE. checking the OP to see if it was listed as one, but it was supposed to be single target.
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*/Devices also breaks all of the other rules for the design of the blaster secondaries. Claiming an outlier as a reason why your set operates within the traditional confines of the power set isn't really a logical argument.
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No, but it shows that the "rules" can be broken. This set is more in line with traditional blaster secondaries than Devices.
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So you think that the teleporting your entire group to you every 20 seconds or so (because it's an attack, like you said, and follows those formulas) isn't going to get annoying? You're pretty much requiring everyone on a team with a person that uses this secondary to turn on the teleport prompt, unless they're okay with having the Blaster bounce them around 3-4 times every group.
It still doesn't address how optic blasts actually teleport his friends around him though. Sure he might make a beacon, but how are his eye blasts, that have, until now, only shown the ability to burn and push, teleporting everyone to him? The teleport doesn't make thematic sense.
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Okay, it would be annoying, and it probably doesn't make much sense. I like the concept, but you're probably right about that one.
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Though it still does nothing for the recharge or high levels of damage. AoEs and ST attacks follow completely different balance formulas. AoEs have longer recharge times, lower damage, and greater endurance costs. Plus, there's the fact that you're converting every ST attack from the primary. That's a full attack string of fully Defiancebuffing and Defiance capable attacks. That's not single target focus.
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Again, the math is very different on a bounce attack than on a true AoE. Very different from a balance perspective. I'm not opposed to reducing the effect of this power in various ways, though I do feel the -1 mechanic should be enough, perhaps with a +End Cost feature as well.
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"It would need to substantially change the game engine" is not an argument for why the power is viable.
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Neither of us has any idea how much much work it would be to make a power disable attacks on all but the targeted mob. It may actually be as simple as using the taunt code as you suggested, or it may require an entirely new mechanic. That said, they do add new mechanics to this game to make new powers work, so this does not seem impossible to me.
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You're ignoring what I'm actually saying aren't you? I just told you that it's impossible to have an effect that Taunts yourself to a target because you would need to force the target to Taunt you, which the game can't.
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For all we know it might be able to. But even if it can't, new coding does not disqualify a new mechanic from inclusion.
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You're misreading what I was saying. I never meant anything about not being able to attack. I meant being able to click one button and then walk away, which it would allow for. Plus, it's a substantial amount of animationless damage, which, considering the low potency of the damage auras, is powerful effect.
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You could turn on Lightning Field and walk away as well. You'd probably wind up with a dead blaster, but you could do it. Take that or Blazing Aura, add some damage and some range (as it is a single target power) and you've got a starting point for balancing this power. Damage dealing toggles are not unheard of for blasters, this one is just new due to execution.
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There are reasons that the conventions work. They're there for balance. You can't easily compare a defender primary to a tanker primary. They're not the same. The same applies within power sets. Hell, the numerous rebalancings of Full Auto and Rain of Arrows, which were designed against the convention of the tier 9 demonstrate how much effort is required that those powers at least followed it somewhat. Defying convention is alright, but going way out in left field is substantially less than alright.
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New sets break conventions in different ways. This one doesn't have an AoE teir 9. I don't see that as a big deal.
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Sonic and psi at least have reasons for being specifically anatomically focused. Mouth = voice = sonic blasts. Head = brain = psionic blasts (though, the set actually has a number of attacks that don't have any relation to the head). How do lasers thematically apply to eyes outside of the already existing Laser Beam Eyes? It would make more sense to be attached to a weapon of some kind that simply stating "Lasers = eye blasts!".
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Why shouldn't we have an eye focused set?
Would you like the set better if it were retooled as a Laser Rifle set?
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Beacon- (Point Blank Area of Effect, Moderate Damage (Fire/Energy), Foe Knockback, Teleport Teammates) You fire a bright light into the sky as a rally-point for your allies, bringing them to your aid. Foes near you as you unleash this blast will be knocked away from you, and will take some damage. Allies must be fairly close to be teleported to your side in this way.
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I thought this was "Bacon" at first. I now demand a bacon-based powerset, complete with dual-wielding giant bacon blades, projectile bacon strips, and bacon-mail armor! 
QR
This suggestion doesn't include Inflict Moderate Wounds, Charm Person, Slow, Charm Monster, Sleep, Fear, Disintegrate, Telekinesis, Finger of Death, or Flesh to Stone, so I'm not interested.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Sorry to break it to you, but this is Power Customization fodder. We don't need another set to do Energy Blasts. We need to be able to tell the game where those Energy Blasts come from (Hands, Wands, Chest, Eyes, etc.). Unfortunately that's still a ways down the road if it's possible at all.
I wouldn't hold my breath.
But I want to make a Beholder villain! D:
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
The main reason I dislike this suggestion is because of the trademark issues surrounding it. And I see it being a problem for 2 reasons.
1. The set is narrowly focused. The idea of shooting energy blasts at someone is not narrowly focused, so it's okay. The idea of specifically shooting energy blasts out of your eyes at someone is very narrowly focused, so it's less likely to be okay.
2. The set is character defining. Similarly, we already have several eye-blast powers (PB and WS have them, laser-beam eyes in the body mastery pool, and rad's x-ray beam). However, none of these powers are character defining. They're 1 power out of many, and not the focus of the entire set.
Those two things highlight my argument why claws/regen is okay and this isn't. The claws/regen combo is character defining (matching up to wolverine's powers), but neither set is narrowly focused. The idea of being able to heal quickly and the ability to attack someone with claws are both pretty broad. Even the combination can lead a lot of different directions. You could be a wolverine clone to a werewolf.
Optic blast and optic manipulation, however, are both character defining AND narrowly focused. If you make a character with optic blast/optic manipulation, you can't really avoid being a cyclops clone, even with a different costume.
Whether it's technically legal or not by trademark law isn't really the issue. These powersets would be practically BEGGING for another lawsuit, and that's a hassle that Paragon Studios and NCSoft don't need.
Despite that, it is a cool looking set, and I can tell you put a lot of thought into it, so kudos on that part.
So you'd like it if it were a laser rifle of some sort perhaps?
Two new sets, designed with a blaster in mind, though the blast set could easily be used for Defenders and Corrupters as well.
Optic Blast-
You can emit beams of light from your eyes, dealing energy and heat damage to enemies with a glance. Requiring little but the turn of your head, this is a fast set, with shorter animation times than normal. It specializes in strong single-target damage, with a toggle to add a "bounce" effect, giving it multi-target support.
Glance- (Ranged, Minor Damage(Fire/Energy)) You quickly fire a small burst of energy at a target. Like most Optic Blasts, this attack has a sorter than normal attack time, and in addition, this attack has no root time, allowing you to move while using it.
Glare- (Ranged, Moderate Damage over Time(Fire/Energy)) A more intense beam of energy, this power takes longer to fire than Glance, but is still faster than other blast powers of its class.
Peripheral Blast- (Ranged Cone, Medium Damage(Fire/Energy)) You unleash a wave of light from your eyes, dealing damage to any foes in your field of vision. This attack is faster than other similar attacks.
Aim- (Self +To-Hit, +Damage) Greatly increases the chance to hit of your attacks for a few seconds. Slightly increases damage.
Evil Eye- (Close, High Damage(Fire/Energy), Minor Damage over Time(Fire)) You give a nearby foe a lethal dose of your optic energy, the intense heat causing severe burns which will continue to harm the target.
Farsight- (Sniper, Extreme Damage(Fire/Energy)) Taking some time to focus your vision, you can blast a far-off foe with an astounding amount of heat and light. This ability requires less time to fire than other sniper attacks.
Reflection- (Toggle, Special) While active, this will allow your standard single target attacks (Glance, Glare, Evil Eye, Farsight, and Optic Overload) to bounce, hitting additional foes. While consecutive blasts will benefit from any buffs you posses, each blast is one level lower than the one before, reducing the damage and accuracy exponentially, and no single enemy can be hit twice in this way. However, the number of times an attack can bounce is otherwise unlimited.
Optic Overload- (Ranged, High Damage (Fire/Energy), Foe Knockback) You blast an opponent with a massive burst of power, causing them to be blasted back by the force.
Stare Down- (Toggle, Ranged Moderate Damage over Time (Fire/Energy) Self Immobilize, Special) You constantly emit a steady stream of deadly light at a single opponent. This attack requires you to keep your eyes locked on your foe, and while this attack is active you cannot target any other individual. However, you may still target that opponent for further attacks, you can perform attacks with no target, and other enemies can still be hit by AoE attacks, or by attacks bounced off your target. If the target moves out of range or out of your line of sight, Stare Down will deactivate. You cannot move while this attack is active.
Optic Manipulation-
You can emit and detect a many types of energy with your eyes, allowing you enhanced vision, as well as a variety of ways to damage and disable your foes.
Weld- (Ranged, Moderate Damage over Time (Fire/Energy), Foe Immobilize) You focus a precision laser at a foe's feet, melting the ground he's standing on to affix him to it, preventing him from moving.
Depth Perception- (Passive, Self +Range, +Resistance(-Range, -Perception, -Accuracy)) Your enhanced binocular vision increases the range at which your attacks are effective, and reduces your vulnerability to effects which can reduce your range, perception, or accuracy.
Blinding Blast- (Ranged (Cone), Foe -Perception, -Accuracy) You flash a bright light at a group of foes, blinding them. Blinded foes are less likely to see you, and have reduced accuracy.
X-Ray Vision- (Toggle, +Perception, +Damage) While active, your X-Ray vision allows you to see an enemy's inner workings, giving you insight into their vulnerabilities and allowing you to deal more damage. These beams will also grant you to see hidden foes.
Strobe- (Ranged (Cone), Foe Sleep) You emit a rapid sequence of light pulses, which will cause opponents to tremor and seize, leaving them helpless unless attacked.
Spotlight- (Ranged(Location Area of Effect), Foe -Stealth, -Defense) You shine an intense light on an area, revealing foes hiding in the shadows and making them easier to strike. While your own vision may be enhanced by other powers, this will also reveal these enemies to your team.
Plasma Burn- (Melee, High Damage (Fire/Energy), Foe -Regen, -Heal) Blasting a foe with an intense heat at point-blank range causes the surrounding air to ignite, creating plasma burns. Because plasma burns heal poorly, the foe will not regenerate health as quickly, and will not respond as well to healing.
Double vision- (Ranged, Minor Damage (Fire/Energy) Foe -Range, Confuse) A bright beam directly into a foe's retina creates double-vision, greatly reducing the effective range of an opponent's attacks. Occasionally a foe with double vision will become confused and accidentally attack his own allies.
Beacon- (Point Blank Area of Effect, Moderate Damage (Fire/Energy), Foe Knockback, Teleport Teammates) You fire a bright light into the sky as a rally-point for your allies, bringing them to your aid. Foes near you as you unleash this blast will be knocked away from you, and will take some damage. Allies must be fairly close to be teleported to your side in this way.