Anyone who read the original post and heeded the call to battle that day, did so foolishly. The original post was littered with red flags. It's a nearly unsurmountable upperhand - the elements of surprise and preparation. Only *they* knew when and where and thus, they had more people already armed and able to shift lunchtime or TiVo (etc.) to attend en masse. It was a grand coup in terms of baiting and trapping other regular predators. Though, I do not consider it worth boasting. There's a great difference in a winning tactics and lasting success. I suspect that this group may one day become overconfident and find themselves on the losing end of an openly scheduled event against seasoned PvP'rs in established groups such as LoT, Ducks, and Wolves - especially if those groups band together for the intent of "schooling" the shortpants.
P.S. Xad, churbad!
"A book should serve as the axe for the frozen sea within us." - Kafka, in a letter to Oskar Pollak
National Book Month is in October. National Novel Writing Month is November. Slice_O_Pie is mm mmm gewd all year...
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Anyone who read the original post and heeded the call to battle that day, did so foolishly. The original post was littered with red flags. It's a nearly unsurmountable upperhand - the elements of surprise and preparation. Only *they* knew when and where and thus, they had more people already armed and able to shift lunchtime or TiVo (etc.) to attend en masse. It was a grand coup in terms of baiting and trapping other regular predators. Though, I do not consider it worth boasting. There's a great difference in a winning tactics and lasting success. I suspect that this group may one day become overconfident and find themselves on the losing end of an openly scheduled event against seasoned PvP'rs in established groups such as LoT, Ducks, and Wolves - especially if those groups band together for the intent of "schooling" the shortpants.
P.S. Xad, churbad!
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<---- Bringin' the best drama on any server since 05'!!!!
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Yeah Syn, they brought 30 or so nubs out ALL at once to the PvP zones............and talked !%@%$ while camping the villian base.
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No wonder I haven't seen them. They aren't PvPers looking for fights, who would show up regardless of numbers; they're a zerg that only PvPs when they can get everyone together.
Still, I applaud your zerg. Do it more often.
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IM not much for the PvP in this game (more's the pitty), but showing up for a fight regardless of numbers or other gross strategic factors may make you a "real PvPer" in your book - to me, it make syou an idiot. In the immortal words of Harry Dresden, fair fights are for suckers.
Now of course, sometimes, when there's nothing of consequence on the line, a truly fair fight can be fun, and help you hone your skills. And heavens know there isn't a lot of material advantage to be won in PvP in this game (unless you count e-peen inflation). But zones never have been, and never will be places to go looking for a "fair" fight. Not in this game; not in any game ever made. If thats what you want then an Arena match is a better option.
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You misread my comment. I care nothing for Arena matches, which I consider to be more infamy-spending (and RMT-buying) contests than "fair" fights.
My definition of a "real (zone) PvPer" is someone who does it frequently. He doesn't wait only for the presumably rare occasion of thirty guildies all being online together and ready to go. That is more characteristic of a large PvE SG that comes to a PvP zone as a SG event. If they were people who PvP'ed often ("real PvPers"), one would encounter them in groups consisting of whomever was ready to go at the time -- very likely eight or fewer. That is what I meant by "regardless of numbers." One does not need thirty people to win all the fights in Virtue PvP zones.
well EverStryke since you like drama, why don't you bring SpaceJew & 6 other of your compadres & we can do a 8 vs 8 in the arena.
Quack Quack
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Yeah Syn, they brought 30 or so nubs out ALL at once to the PvP zones............and talked !%@%$ while camping the villian base.
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No wonder I haven't seen them. They aren't PvPers looking for fights, who would show up regardless of numbers; they're a zerg that only PvPs when they can get everyone together.
Still, I applaud your zerg. Do it more often.
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IM not much for the PvP in this game (more's the pitty), but showing up for a fight regardless of numbers or other gross strategic factors may make you a "real PvPer" in your book - to me, it make syou an idiot. In the immortal words of Harry Dresden, fair fights are for suckers.
Now of course, sometimes, when there's nothing of consequence on the line, a truly fair fight can be fun, and help you hone your skills. And heavens know there isn't a lot of material advantage to be won in PvP in this game (unless you count e-peen inflation). But zones never have been, and never will be places to go looking for a "fair" fight. Not in this game; not in any game ever made. If thats what you want then an Arena match is a better option.
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You misread my comment. I care nothing for Arena matches, which I consider to be more infamy-spending (and RMT-buying) contests than "fair" fights.
My definition of a "real (zone) PvPer" is someone who does it frequently. He doesn't wait only for the presumably rare occasion of thirty guildies all being online together and ready to go. That is more characteristic of a large PvE SG that comes to a PvP zone as a SG event. If they were people who PvP'ed often ("real PvPers"), one would encounter them in groups consisting of whomever was ready to go at the time -- very likely eight or fewer. That is what I meant by "regardless of numbers." One does not need thirty people to win all the fights in Virtue PvP zones.
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Oh & you must be referring to a REAL PvP'er........such as myself!!!!
Someone 1 Vs 1 me
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Yeah Syn, they brought 30 or so nubs out ALL at once to the PvP zones............and talked !%@%$ while camping the villian base.
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No wonder I haven't seen them. They aren't PvPers looking for fights, who would show up regardless of numbers; they're a zerg that only PvPs when they can get everyone together.
Still, I applaud your zerg. Do it more often.
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IM not much for the PvP in this game (more's the pitty), but showing up for a fight regardless of numbers or other gross strategic factors may make you a "real PvPer" in your book - to me, it make syou an idiot. In the immortal words of Harry Dresden, fair fights are for suckers.
Now of course, sometimes, when there's nothing of consequence on the line, a truly fair fight can be fun, and help you hone your skills. And heavens know there isn't a lot of material advantage to be won in PvP in this game (unless you count e-peen inflation). But zones never have been, and never will be places to go looking for a "fair" fight. Not in this game; not in any game ever made. If thats what you want then an Arena match is a better option.
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You misread my comment. I care nothing for Arena matches, which I consider to be more infamy-spending (and RMT-buying) contests than "fair" fights.
My definition of a "real (zone) PvPer" is someone who does it frequently. He doesn't wait only for the presumably rare occasion of thirty guildies all being online together and ready to go. That is more characteristic of a large PvE SG that comes to a PvP zone as a SG event. If they were people who PvP'ed often ("real PvPers"), one would encounter them in groups consisting of whomever was ready to go at the time -- very likely eight or fewer. That is what I meant by "regardless of numbers." One does not need thirty people to win all the fights in Virtue PvP zones.
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Oh & you must be referring to a REAL PvP'er........such as myself!!!!
Someone 1 Vs 1 me
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Don't make me kill you, nub. 
Operation infiltration is in effect.
Global@SteelDominator
I undrstnad waht yuou're saying perfeclty, and I disagree. Most of the good PvP guilds Ive ever seen work as a team; they might fight a one on one duel as an E-peen enlarger, or risk an unequal battle if some important in-game objective were at stake and they had no choice, but all things being equal, they would never enter a PvP area without a team that they believed was superior tot he opposition they believed they would encounter. We call that good strategy.
But of course, most real PvP guilds play real PvP games where there is something meaningful (in an in-game sense; not necesarilly in a broader real-life sense) to be won and lost through PvP.
In CoH where the only thing you stnad to win or loose is bragging rights, I suppose I can see that it might be different, but even if all you're playing for is fun, I dont see the entertinment value in getting pwnt. Maybe Im just too competative or take my games too seriously, but I see no reasont o show up to a fight im likely to loose unless, as we've already dsicussed, there were something on the line it was worth taking even the slimmest chance to obtain/defend, and that sort of inducement simply does not exist in CoH (though it might one day in the catastrophically unlikely event they ever implement Items of Power properly).
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I undrstnad waht yuou're saying perfeclty, and I disagree. Most of the good PvP guilds Ive ever seen work as a team; they might fight a one on one duel as an E-peen enlarger, or risk an unequal battle if some important in-game objective were at stake and they had no choice, but all things being equal, they would never enter a PvP area without a team that they believed was superior tot he opposition they believed they would encounter. We call that good strategy.
But of course, most real PvP guilds play real PvP games where there is something meaningful (in an in-game sense; not necesarilly in a broader real-life sense) to be won and lost through PvP.
In CoH where the only thing you stnad to win or loose is bragging rights, I suppose I can see that it might be different, but even if all you're playing for is fun, I dont see the entertinment value in getting pwnt. Maybe Im just too competative or take my games too seriously, but I see no reasont o show up to a fight im likely to loose.
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Yes, you take your games too seriously. You don't become competent at PvP by avoiding it. Let's wrap this up, since we are debating something I do every day and you never do.
But what you and I do is not the issue we're arguing (debates have rules, and moderators). You're contention is that the people who've set this stunt up are somehow morally inferior as PvPers, or at least thats the impression I ahd from your comments, but my argument is tht they found a winning strategy, and that there's nothing wrong with that.
Of course, you could argue if it IS a winning strategy. As you correctly point out your skills dont improve much from a lopsided fight, and even the largest guild may not always be able to gaurantee numberical superiority under all circumstances. Still, the idea that "real PvPers are the ones who only do the things I do or approve of" is fecetious. Just like all other claims of "you're not a real [gamer of some type]"
hey guys, what's going on in this thread?
I would like to issue a plea on behalf of Paragon's diminutive protectors, please watch where you step. We're four feet tall in a six foot tall world, we've been cast adrift in a sea of butts. -Pillbug
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But what you and I do is not the issue we're arguing (debates have rules, and moderators). You're contention is that the people who've set this stunt up are somehow morally inferior as PvPers, or at least thats the impression I ahd from your comments, but my argument is tht they found a winning strategy, and that there's nothing wrong with that.
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Hell no I didn't type that. I'm all for their zerg, and I want them to do it again -- which I did type. I also suggested that they refrain from soloing until they get better characters, so that they can outnumber people like me and win.
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Of course, you could argue if it IS a winning strategy. As you correctly point out your skills dont improve much from a lopsided fight, and even the largest guild may not always be able to gaurantee numberical superiority under all circumstances. Still, the idea that "real PvPers are the ones who only do the things I do or approve of" is fecetious. Just like all other claims of "you're not a real [gamer of some type]"
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"Real" PvPers are people who PvP more than once in a blue moon, and that is all. I care not at all how they do it. I don't exclude droners, base-sitters, gankers, zergers, pill-poppers, trash-talkers, newbies, any of them. The only kind I exclude is your kind, the kind that doesn't do it.
Thats a fair point, but it moves me to wonder how often do you have to PvP to be a "PvPer" in this scheme. Obviously once or twice on a whim isnt good enough for you, but whats the minimum schedule. Once a week? Once every 2 days? Does it ahve ot occupy 90% of my time, or only 50%. Does skill matter - if I only PvP rarely for whatever reason but I kick [censored] at it (sort of hard to envision how that would come about, but its a hypothetical question) am I still a real PvPer? It makes you wonder how useful the label really is.
It's just my judgment call. Frequency counts, not skill. I hadn't seen them at all in the PvP zones, so after reading what they did, I guessed that they were PvEers just zerging for amusement.
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But of course, most real PvP guilds play real PvP games where there is something meaningful (in an in-game sense; not necesarilly in a broader real-life sense) to be won and lost through PvP.
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Agreed.
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But of course, most real PvP guilds play real PvP games where there is something meaningful (in an in-game sense; not necesarilly in a broader real-life sense) to be won and lost through PvP.
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Agreed.
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@Eta
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It's just my judgment call. Frequency counts, not skill. I hadn't seen them at all in the PvP zones, so after reading what they did, I guessed that they were PvEers just zerging for amusement.
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I disagree but that's because I can play TF2 with folks who take months for breaks and come back pwning away like nobody's business. Skill > Frequency IMO. Though at the same time, skill can be irrelevant to a game that's PVP is imbalanced anyways. Now while CoX has the concept down, we know you can't just go out there do anything you want because you're 'usually' good at it otherwise.
EDIT: Crap didn't mean to double post. I tried to edit the top one and miss clicked >_<
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It's just my judgment call. Frequency counts, not skill. I hadn't seen them at all in the PvP zones, so after reading what they did, I guessed that they were PvEers just zerging for amusement.
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I disagree but that's because I can play TF2 with folks who take months for breaks and come back pwning away like nobody's business. Skill > Frequency IMO. Though at the same time, skill can be irrelevant to a game that's PVP is imbalanced anyways. Now while CoX has the concept down, we know you can't just go out there do anything you want because you're 'usually' good at it otherwise.
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To repeat myself, I was not making a value/skill/morality/whatever judgment. When I call someone a PvPer (or a "real" PvPer), all I mean is that he PvPs fairly often. Period. That's all.
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It's just my judgment call. Frequency counts, not skill. I hadn't seen them at all in the PvP zones, so after reading what they did, I guessed that they were PvEers just zerging for amusement.
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I disagree but that's because I can play TF2 with folks who take months for breaks and come back pwning away like nobody's business. Skill > Frequency IMO. Though at the same time, skill can be irrelevant to a game that's PVP is imbalanced anyways. Now while CoX has the concept down, we know you can't just go out there do anything you want because you're 'usually' good at it otherwise.
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To repeat myself, I was not making a value/skill/morality/whatever judgment. When I call someone a PvPer (or a "real" PvPer), all I mean is that he PvPs fairly often. Period. That's all.
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Ironically, I think we've about covered the subject matter. I do undestand where you're coming from, it just strikes me that this definition (and similar ones) are a little subjective. If someone, like Stryphe above, feals that even if you PvP constantly, you're not really a PvPer unless you have a certain amount of skill, its rather difficult to come up with a rational argument for proving that your definition is better than theirs, don't you think?
Well, next time bring more people and we'll explore the possibility of letting you win =)