We got police now there needs to be a military.
By
008Zulu,
Posted on: 2009-06-11 24:19 in Suggestions and Ideas
The only question I have is is why.
Why not? A human extinction threat seems like a good reason for sending in the military.
If it ain't broke set it on fire, then say it was a fault in the design.
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The military could even be called, 'Military'.
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Now why would you do that??? I'd prefer Jennifer. 
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Okay, but where would they engage threats? The only appropriate place I could think of would be the Shadow Shard, which already has a military presence.
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I thought the "Military" faction was locked in combat with the Rularu in the Shadow Shard.
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Quote:
| Originally by Arcanaville: Everything in Praetoria was designed during a drinking binge in which the devs temporarily forgot the rules. |
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Why not? A human extinction threat seems like a good reason for sending in the military.
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Paragon City on the Rogue Isles are teaming with Heroes and Villains. That frees up military forces to fight other fight, in which they only have to worry about guns and bombs.
For the most part, the military would be inadequate in fighting CoT, Banished Pantheon, Rikti, etc. That's why they left it up to us.
The military in the Shadow Shard don't do anything. They're like the old police blockade in the Hollows. If the military is adequate enough to fight the Soldiers of Rularuu and Shadow Shard Reflection(copied at full strength of the real thing), than they sure are adequate enough enough with fighting the Rikti. One question that comes to mind is; if the Midnight Squad banished Rularuu to the Shadow Shard than why don't they have a presence there? They seem to be the ones that would be specialized with dealing with creatures in that area. As the Vanguard is specialized in dealing with the Rikti.
As for the CoT, Banished Pantheon, Family, Crey, etc. They're only organizations that would be dealt with at the level of police forces. And highered help of the Longbow to take down bosses with the help of heroes to handle missions they aren't able to.
And if Paragon and Rogue Isles is teeming with heroes and villains than why have a military in Shadow Shard. They can just recruit heroes and villains to fight in the Shadow Shard and have the military do other things, like take vacations. The reason, it doesn't make since. Why have a military at all if they aren't powerful enough to deal with national threats.
The reason I think there needs to be a military is because. Vanguard, Longbow, Arachnos, the heroes of Paragon, and the villains of Rogue Isle wouldn't have that many with those organizations. They're all basically guns for higher. Yes the game makes them unlimited, but that because the game would last shortly if they had a limited number. The Rikti if taking into consideration that more and more are coming from their homeworld through portals at a high rate. Rather than being a confused recruit, a guy with a doctorates, old special forces, or possesed member by a long ritual. Those are slow processes of increasing member sizes. Shooting members out by portals is much quicker.
Since an organization is specialized in something doesn't mean you have only they deal with that something. You have them supervise and handle the big parts of that something. Like a research lab, you're not going to have scientist do everything that's why there are lab assistants to help with the basics. In hospitals there are nurses to prepare and check patients. In fast food restuarants there a crew workers to cook the food and mop the floor, the manager is good enough to do the cooking but doesn't because much larger things have to be dealt with that the crew member isn't able to. Both are still working on the same thing.
The Vanguard is like the NSA. You wouldn't have them fight every terrorist member in the world, just stop the big bosses. And for the Vanguard you would have them fight every Rikti just the big bosses. The military is for dealing with large numbers of combatants. The Vanguard is for dealing with the hard hits.
If it ain't broke set it on fire, then say it was a fault in the design.
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Sorry, but being that Rhode Island is part of the United States; it is governed by Federal Law, and the Posse Comitatus Act mandates against the military being used in such a manner.
The military presences in both the Shadow Shard (not within the US) and the RWZ (a warzone thus necessitating a military stronghold against incursion) make sense and are allowable under current statute. Military in any other part of Paragon would be limited to members on leave, and thus no more notable than civilians. Any 'active' role of military would be illegal in the city, and that includes National Guard, in dealing with 'criminal' factions on an ongoing basis. Thus 'supers' deal with 'super' threats.
And thus /jranger and no.
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Still, maybe have the military help out in the War Zone and the Shard.
On that note, I would like to see some allied Arachnos in the War Zone. I mean, I doubt Kuh'rekt is going to be that angry with Arachnos for playing both sides of the war to try to make the greatest profit, he knows he's dealing with cut throats and low lives.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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I can imagine we don't have military in the game because it would be based on the RL United States military (since Paragon exists in Rhode Island, in the US). So, a lot of political issues would arise.
If somehow it were to happen, I could see the military perhaps battling Malta and Nemesis in mission story arcs, not really having open battles in city zones.
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Sorry, but being that Rhode Island is part of the United States; it is governed by Federal Law, and the Posse Comitatus Act mandates against the military being used in such a manner.
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There have been examples where this Act has been temporarily suspended, both in real life and cinema.
Although in this context I can really only see them in the Rikti war zone. Can't really see Sgt. Sam "The Butcher" Smith and his squad of weekend warriors taking on the Rikti.
P.S Sam is actually a butcher, it is not a reflection of his fighting prowess, and weekend warriors I got from watching Rambo the other night.
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One question that comes to mind is; if the Midnight Squad banished Rularuu to the Shadow Shard than why don't they have a presence there? They seem to be the ones that would be specialized with dealing with creatures in that area. As the Vanguard is specialized in dealing with the Rikti.
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Because their numbers were decimated. There's only a small handful of them left, and none of them besides the contacts you talk to for missions have any real power, and even those powers aren't useful in a fight, like Montague's inherent power is sensing changes in the Space-Time Continuum. The rank and file Midnighters aren't much in a fight, they defend the Club itself and they can be beaten by a single group of Destine Ones.
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And if Paragon and Rogue Isles is teeming with heroes and villains than why have a military in Shadow Shard. They can just recruit heroes and villains to fight in the Shadow Shard and have the military do other things, like take vacations. The reason, it doesn't make since. Why have a military at all if they aren't powerful enough to deal with national threats.
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They must be doing a good enough job themselves since the Rularru haven't invaded since that first time.
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The reason I think there needs to be a military is because. Vanguard, Longbow, Arachnos, the heroes of Paragon, and the villains of Rogue Isle wouldn't have that many with those organizations. They're all basically guns for higher. Yes the game makes them unlimited, but that because the game would last shortly if they had a limited number. The Rikti if taking into consideration that more and more are coming from their homeworld through portals at a high rate. Rather than being a confused recruit, a guy with a doctorates, old special forces, or possesed member by a long ritual. Those are slow processes of increasing member sizes. Shooting members out by portals is much quicker.
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Longbow aren't mercenaries. They're a UN Sanctioned peace keeping force, armed through NATO and commanded by Freedom Corps. Freedom Corps offer their heroic services free of charge, it's Hero Corp you're thinking of as Mercenary Heroes, they're the ones who sell their Heroes out to fight crime.
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The Vanguard is like the NSA. You wouldn't have them fight every terrorist member in the world, just stop the big bosses. And for the Vanguard you would have them fight every Rikti just the big bosses. The military is for dealing with large numbers of combatants. The Vanguard is for dealing with the hard hits.
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Umm, I don't see the correlation; Vanguard wouldn't care one whit about terrorists, unless those terrorists are aliens (and even then they might be willing to get them to join the fight considering their lenient recruitment style). The Vanguard are there to fight the Rikti and only the Rikti really. Their job is to protect Earth from non-Terran threats, the biggest and main one being the Rikti.
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True; the act is not an absolute (why I added the link too), and in the world of super fantasy it's neither here nor there, but I wanted to give a real world rationale for the military's general exclusion. To be honest, I don't even see the need for them in the Shard or the Warzone. Aside from the obvious Stargate and War of the Worlds homages/references. Much like the PPD before CoV and Mayhems; they sorta aren't part of the story so much as the focus is on Heroes.
I really wonder at the impetus behind some suggestions made here, and the mindset behind the suggestor. Usually I think it is some sinister bent to get their own desired game out of CoH. I mean when I hear suggestions for wands and staff magic powersets, or Elfin this and that, I know we have a D&Dite or WoWser who really just wants the Character Creator ported over to those games and isn't so much into the Super Hero genre of fantasy (Dr Strange, et al aside). So I wonder with this OP. Rather have Paragon make the next BF1942 or somesuch? I just wonder.
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Sorry, but being that Rhode Island is part of the United States; it is governed by Federal Law, and the Posse Comitatus Act mandates against the military being used in such a manner.
The military presences in both the Shadow Shard (not within the US) and the RWZ (a warzone thus necessitating a military stronghold against incursion) make sense and are allowable under current statute. Military in any other part of Paragon would be limited to members on leave, and thus no more notable than civilians. Any 'active' role of military would be illegal in the city, and that includes National Guard, in dealing with 'criminal' factions on an ongoing basis. Thus 'supers' deal with 'super' threats.
And thus /jranger and no.
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I said nothing about using the military in policing domestic criminal activity.
How do you disagree with something you agree? When I was speaking of adding a military it was about putting them in the Rikti War Zone to aide the Vanguard; forgetting about the Shadow Shard. Later, I spoke about making the military in the Shadow Shard active NPCs. Two places were you just said having a military makes sense. But, since you /jrangered it, I'll just give up on it.
If it ain't broke set it on fire, then say it was a fault in the design.
Main:50 Force Encephalon Mind/Kinetic Controller, Protector Server
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One question that comes to mind is; if the Midnight Squad banished Rularuu to the Shadow Shard than why don't they have a presence there? They seem to be the ones that would be specialized with dealing with creatures in that area. As the Vanguard is specialized in dealing with the Rikti.
[/ QUOTE ]
Because their numbers were decimated. There's only a small handful of them left, and none of them besides the contacts you talk to for missions have any real power, and even those powers aren't useful in a fight, like Montague's inherent power is sensing changes in the Space-Time Continuum. The rank and file Midnighters aren't much in a fight, they defend the Club itself and they can be beaten by a single group of Destine Ones.
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Good point.
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And if Paragon and Rogue Isles is teeming with heroes and villains than why have a military in Shadow Shard. They can just recruit heroes and villains to fight in the Shadow Shard and have the military do other things, like take vacations. The reason, it doesn't make since. Why have a military at all if they aren't powerful enough to deal with national threats.
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They must be doing a good enough job themselves since the Rularru haven't invaded since that first time.
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Only because they're limited to their coding.
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The reason I think there needs to be a military is because. Vanguard, Longbow, Arachnos, the heroes of Paragon, and the villains of Rogue Isle wouldn't have that many with those organizations. They're all basically guns for higher. Yes the game makes them unlimited, but that because the game would last shortly if they had a limited number. The Rikti if taking into consideration that more and more are coming from their homeworld through portals at a high rate. Rather than being a confused recruit, a guy with a doctorates, old special forces, or possesed member by a long ritual. Those are slow processes of increasing member sizes. Shooting members out by portals is much quicker.
[/ QUOTE ]
Longbow aren't mercenaries. They're a UN Sanctioned peace keeping force, armed through NATO and commanded by Freedom Corps. Freedom Corps offer their heroic services free of charge, it's Hero Corp you're thinking of as Mercenary Heroes, they're the ones who sell their Heroes out to fight crime.
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Your right, I checked back on it.
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The Vanguard is like the NSA. You wouldn't have them fight every terrorist member in the world, just stop the big bosses. And for the Vanguard you would have them fight every Rikti just the big bosses. The military is for dealing with large numbers of combatants. The Vanguard is for dealing with the hard hits.
[/ QUOTE ]
Umm, I don't see the correlation; Vanguard wouldn't care one whit about terrorists, unless those terrorists are aliens (and even then they might be willing to get them to join the fight considering their lenient recruitment style). The Vanguard are there to fight the Rikti and only the Rikti really. Their job is to protect Earth from non-Terran threats, the biggest and main one being the Rikti.
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I wasn't saying the Vanguard did care about terrorism. Maybe I should of used a different simily like special forces and the regular military. Even though the special forces do a better job than the regular military. They wouldn't be used for every missions being that they have a much lower number by the low number of accepted recruits, failures, and extent of training; and that would just be wasting valuable resources.
The Vanguard would probably only recruit members that can pass some test. Then would have to go through extensive training that might last 2 to 6 years. It's not like they just grapped some people of the streets gave some armor and weapons had them go through a 2 week spell casting course and said, "Good luck!". Because than Paragon would be screwed.
I wasn't correlating the NSA to the Vanguard. I was comparing the NSA to the Vanguard in level of force. While police deal with street thugs, domestic violence, drug dealers, other local level crimes. The NSA would be using much larger resources to find possible terrorist leaders. The Vanguard rather than wasting resources on fighting every Rikti could use it on finding Rikti bosses, making plans of which targets would be most devistating to the Rikti, and aiding heroes and villains in mission against found Rikti bosses and targets. The military would only be there to help clear the way.
If it ain't broke set it on fire, then say it was a fault in the design.
Main:50 Force Encephalon Mind/Kinetic Controller, Protector Server
[ QUOTE ]
True; the act is not an absolute (why I added the link too), and in the world of super fantasy it's neither here nor there, but I wanted to give a real world rationale for the military's general exclusion. To be honest, I don't even see the need for them in the Shard or the Warzone. Aside from the obvious Stargate and War of the Worlds homages/references. Much like the PPD before CoV and Mayhems; they sorta aren't part of the story so much as the focus is on Heroes.
I really wonder at the impetus behind some suggestions made here, and the mindset behind the suggestor. Usually I think it is some sinister bent to get their own desired game out of CoH. I mean when I hear suggestions for wands and staff magic powersets, or Elfin this and that, I know we have a D&Dite or WoWser who really just wants the Character Creator ported over to those games and isn't so much into the Super Hero genre of fantasy (Dr Strange, et al aside). So I wonder with this OP. Rather have Paragon make the next BF1942 or somesuch? I just wonder.
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Or maybe the OP just wants some added realism in the current situation of the game. There are different areas were the military is mentioned, the Sky Raider describtion being one.
If it ain't broke set it on fire, then say it was a fault in the design.
Main:50 Force Encephalon Mind/Kinetic Controller, Protector Server
I'm not a military buff by any means, and I do think a US Military presence can introduce political elements to a fantasy game, but I've got to say I loved their presence in the Shadow Shard.
I'd heard about it on the forums, how it was difficult to move around there with some travel powers, etc etc. The first time I got there on my first level 40 was just WOW! The giant force field on Firebase Zulu and the militarised presence just make it feel really serious for want of a better word, and juxtaposed nicely with the trippy Roger Dean painting nature of the zone.
It felt to me at that moment like the US/UN/World Military stay out of standard superhero business in Paragon like they stay out of police work in the real world. But, in a superhero universe, when the chips are really down, like the integrity of our dimension being threatened by an mad god, say, they've got the goods and equipment and know how to deal with it.
With a little bit of help from my character, of course 
Having military presence in other zones, particularly lowbie ones, would detract from that impact.
Similarly, the military presence in the RWZ works, but Vanguard has that covered.
I certainly wouldn't mind the Shard getting a bit of a workover which would include the soldiers being upgraded to active combatants like Vanguard are in the RWZ.
Most of the military was wiped out in the Rikti war. Heck there might not even be a US government now that we know of since I am sure most other countries were wiped out too. There is a military presence in the Shadow Shard though.
Once upon a time all police in Paragon were none combatant NPCs that would always run and get captured. But, now there are police forces that actually fight(pretty awesome in CoV). Making the Longbow seem like what they are a worldwide defence contract organization.
With all the things happening in Paragon, the Rikti War Zone, you'd think Rhode Island would of sent in a few divisions of the national guard. The Vanguard could be said to be the military, but again they're more of a worldwide defence contract organization, specialized in combating Rikti with only a handful working for them.
I'm not saying we add a super awesome military NPCs that puts the Vanguard to shame. I'm saying have them around at a decent power with the Vanguard as the specialized group that decrypt Rikti codes, take down Rikti bosses, and recruits heroes and villains to help. There's already special forces looking NPCs that idly move around the Vanguard base. Might as well put them to work.
The military could be infantry:minion, communicator:minion, medic:minion, flyers(named something else):lieutenant, somekind of debuffer:lieutentant, power armored:boss, special forces:boss, heavy:elite boss
To be the military they would have to be seen more often then the Vanguard.
The military could even be called, 'Military'.
If it ain't broke set it on fire, then say it was a fault in the design.
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