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Gauntlet and PunchVoke are often called the same thing, especially on the Tanker forum. Also, I never said you were wrong on the matter. I asked where you were getting it from because there's no in-game listing to suggest a difference and I've found the Brute version more effective. My group had a mob aggroed and one guy broke off. I chased him down and starting beating on him with only ST attacks then they all swarmed on me. Didn't even have my aura on.
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all brute attacks have +13.5s Taunt (mag 4) PvE only, which is why you can slot taunt IOs into every attack, tanks are the same but "gauntlet" applys an aoe effect "Each time a Tanker attacks, he enrages the target, and those around him, enticing them to attack the Tanker"
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Inherent_Powers#Gauntlet
All ATs also come with a "threat level" red sides brutes are the highest so mobs are more inclined to attack them. Brutes are threat level 4, same as tanks. Masterminds are threat level 2.
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Threat
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Gauntlet and PunchVoke are often called the same thing, especially on the Tanker forum. Also, I never said you were wrong on the matter. I asked where you were getting it from because there's no in-game listing to suggest a difference and I've found the Brute version more effective. My group had a mob aggroed and one guy broke off. I chased him down and starting beating on him with only ST attacks then they all swarmed on me. Didn't even have my aura on.
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all brute attacks have +13.5s Taunt (mag 4) PvE only, which is why you can slot taunt IOs into every attack, tanks are the same but "gauntlet" applys an aoe effect "Each time a Tanker attacks, he enrages the target, and those around him, enticing them to attack the Tanker"
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Inherent_Powers#Gauntlet
All ATs also come with a "threat level" red sides brutes are the highest so mobs are more inclined to attack them. Brutes are threat level 4, same as tanks. Masterminds are threat level 2.
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Threat
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you know the OP will never actually get it. he's the kind that rolls a tanker to deal damage.
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If you you at the area of effect on the left side you see brutes and scrappers have an effect of character. Tankers on the other hand have sphere, with a radius of 9 feet and max target 5.
I also stand corrected on those 3 powers, but that does not give scrappers taunt auras like the rest. It gives three sets a taunt aura. It is not like any set has a taunt aura in a self only SR ability, or 3 taunt auras in dark aura like tankers.
Also if pets a peeling aggro off a tank, then doesn't that counter your point of MM's not have the aggro control needed to tank?
[/ QUOTE ]Thanks for pointing out the CoD character/sphere info listing. Weird that I find it more effective on my Brute then. Scrappers having access to Taunt Auras in general was my point. Pets being capable of peeling aggro off at times doesn't counter my point because it only occurs sometimes and they lack the ability to actually control it.
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he's the kind that rolls a tanker to deal damage.
[/ QUOTE ]That must be why my Willpower Tanker has 13.5% recharge and no Hasten or Epic Pools.
Virtue: The-Invictus (Blue)
The Emissary of Justice - Level 50 Fire/Fire Blaster
The Emissary of Justice. - Level 50 WP/Fire Tanker
Mesmerius - Level 50 Psi/Mental Blaster
Nucleoa - Level 50 Rad/Son Defender
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If you you at the area of effect on the left side you see brutes and scrappers have an effect of character. Tankers on the other hand have sphere, with a radius of 9 feet and max target 5.
I also stand corrected on those 3 powers, but that does not give scrappers taunt auras like the rest. It gives three sets a taunt aura. It is not like any set has a taunt aura in a self only SR ability, or 3 taunt auras in dark aura like tankers.
Also if pets a peeling aggro off a tank, then doesn't that counter your point of MM's not have the aggro control needed to tank?
[/ QUOTE ]Thanks for pointing out the CoD character/sphere info listing. Weird that I find it more effective on my Brute then. Scrappers having access to Taunt Auras in general was my point. Pets being capable of peeling aggro off at times doesn't counter my point because it only occurs sometimes and they lack the ability to actually control it.
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he's the kind that rolls a tanker to deal damage.
[/ QUOTE ]That must be why my Willpower Tanker has 13.5% recharge and no Hasten or Epic Pools.
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What you might find more effective on your Brute is higher damage plus the single target taunt is included in your AoE's. So if you are capable of spamming AoE you are taunting as well. Scrappers having taunt auras is no big surprise. Ever since the game started they where placed as "off tanks". Sure that concept rarely works, but it's why they have a version of taunt in the primary. Secondaries with taunt auras are there because usually those sets have a function based on the number of enemies adjacent to the character. To have them function properly they taunt as well. Scrappers are typically tough enough to handle a little extra heat.
This thing about MM pets stripping aggro has me a bit perplexed. What type of encounter are we talking about here? I find it very hard to believe that a MM pet is going to pull aggro off a Tanker fighting a single target especially if the Tanker knows when to taunt. When fighting large packs of mobs sometimes a Tanker can lose a few, but then we can start adding Blasters/Controllers/Defenders etc... into the list of beings capable of "stripping aggro". I just find it hard to believe that -2, and -1 minion pets are pulling aggro on single target fights. I might believe Boss pets can, but I have never lost aggro on my Brute to an Assault Bot, for example, even without taunt. I'm just not sure what you are experiencing that I haven't.
a willpower tanker will lose aggro on anything that hasnt been hit with gauntlet or the taunt power unless rttc has two taunt io's in it.
As mentioned above this is COV you do not need to hold aggro for the entire team. Get in there and smash. I mean what are your team mates doing? Were villains not heroes team dynamic's are different here.
Pinnacle
Arch light L50 INV/SS
Psiberia L50 Kin/Psi
Screaming Mentallica L50 Sonic/MM
Infinity
Arc Voltinator L50 SS/Elec
Mind Fire Kinesis L50 Fire/Kin
Flaming Screamer L50 Fire/Sonic
Meanwhile, my SS/WP Brute has yet to find an 8-man spawn of lts that he can survive for more than five seconds. 37189246789123 percent regen is only nice if you can survive long enough to make it matter.
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Meanwhile, my SS/WP Brute has yet to find an 8-man spawn of lts that he can survive for more than five seconds. 37189246789123 percent regen is only nice if you can survive long enough to make it matter.
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SS/WP is perhaps the most survivable powerhouse outside of stone available redside. Can you post your build?
You should easily be able to tank normal content. Now, if you are talking about missions in AE, WP can get chewed up against specialized mobs. The problem then is you are playing the wrong thing - bringing a hammer when a wrench is needed.
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What you might find more effective on your Brute is higher damage plus the single target taunt is included in your AoE's. So if you are capable of spamming AoE you are taunting as well
[/ QUOTE ]In the scenario I described earlier, I was using just ST attacks on a single enemy that had broken off from the mob and the main group all came rushing over at me.
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This thing about MM pets stripping aggro has me a bit perplexed. What type of encounter are we talking about here?
[/ QUOTE ]I didn't mean MM pets in particular, but a player controlled pet in general. I've seen Phantom Army strip aggro off a Tanker using Taunt during a Hamidon Raid.
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a willpower tanker will lose aggro on anything that hasnt been hit with gauntlet or the taunt power unless rttc has two taunt io's in it.
[/ QUOTE ]So, basically a Willpower Tanker that isn't doing anything, hoping the aura does it all.
Virtue: The-Invictus (Blue)
The Emissary of Justice - Level 50 Fire/Fire Blaster
The Emissary of Justice. - Level 50 WP/Fire Tanker
Mesmerius - Level 50 Psi/Mental Blaster
Nucleoa - Level 50 Rad/Son Defender
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Meanwhile, my SS/WP Brute has yet to find an 8-man spawn of lts that he can survive for more than five seconds. 37189246789123 percent regen is only nice if you can survive long enough to make it matter.
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SS/WP is perhaps the most survivable powerhouse outside of stone available redside. Can you post your build?
You should easily be able to tank normal content. Now, if you are talking about missions in AE, WP can get chewed up against specialized mobs. The problem then is you are playing the wrong thing - bringing a hammer when a wrench is needed.
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no it's not
151377
all dual blade lt's. all immune to stun but not knockback
tell me how your /wp does in there with both tough and weave.
however my willpower can tank those missions those ss/fire brutes like to setup easily due to a high amount of elemental defense - and the fact that the mobs in question dont debuff any resistance.
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What you might find more effective on your Brute is higher damage plus the single target taunt is included in your AoE's. So if you are capable of spamming AoE you are taunting as well
[/ QUOTE ]In the scenario I described earlier, I was using just ST attacks on a single enemy that had broken off from the mob and the main group all came rushing over at me.
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This thing about MM pets stripping aggro has me a bit perplexed. What type of encounter are we talking about here?
[/ QUOTE ]I didn't mean MM pets in particular, but a player controlled pet in general. I've seen Phantom Army strip aggro off a Tanker using Taunt during a Hamidon Raid.
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a willpower tanker will lose aggro on anything that hasnt been hit with gauntlet or the taunt power unless rttc has two taunt io's in it.
[/ QUOTE ]So, basically a Willpower Tanker that isn't doing anything, hoping the aura does it all.
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sweet jesus dude.
PHANTOM ARMY USES TAUNT
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What you might find more effective on your Brute is higher damage plus the single target taunt is included in your AoE's. So if you are capable of spamming AoE you are taunting as well
[/ QUOTE ]In the scenario I described earlier, I was using just ST attacks on a single enemy that had broken off from the mob and the main group all came rushing over at me.
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This thing about MM pets stripping aggro has me a bit perplexed. What type of encounter are we talking about here?
[/ QUOTE ]I didn't mean MM pets in particular, but a player controlled pet in general. I've seen Phantom Army strip aggro off a Tanker using Taunt during a Hamidon Raid.
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a willpower tanker will lose aggro on anything that hasnt been hit with gauntlet or the taunt power unless rttc has two taunt io's in it.
[/ QUOTE ]So, basically a Willpower Tanker that isn't doing anything, hoping the aura does it all.
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sweet jesus dude.
PHANTOM ARMY USES TAUNT
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yep all PA attacks have a 27 second mag 4 taunt effect, not only that they have a tanker beating threat level of 5.
Why is it people from CoH think you have to follow some specific recipe of a Tank, healer, and damage dealers on every team? I don't run into this at all in CoV, but whenever I play CoH (rarely) I always get people swearing we need a tank or we need a healer. I like to run teams of Scrappers and Controllers, then just fill whatever spots are left....and my pug teams usually steamrole anything on invincible. I just don't get why some folks think you have to follow some formula to have an affective team. Is this an idea brought over from other MMOs?
it's unlikely a corruptor can tank positron as a +2 av at 40-42 when you first meet him redside - and fight him twice in consecutive missions.
an mm can survive it, but may not be able to hold aggro on it. same with a VEAT or stalker or dom.
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Meanwhile, my SS/WP Brute has yet to find an 8-man spawn of lts that he can survive for more than five seconds. 37189246789123 percent regen is only nice if you can survive long enough to make it matter.
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SS/WP is perhaps the most survivable powerhouse outside of stone available redside. Can you post your build?
You should easily be able to tank normal content. Now, if you are talking about missions in AE, WP can get chewed up against specialized mobs. The problem then is you are playing the wrong thing - bringing a hammer when a wrench is needed.
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no it's not
151377
all dual blade lt's. all immune to stun but not knockback
tell me how your /wp does in there with both tough and weave.
however my willpower can tank those missions those ss/fire brutes like to setup easily due to a high amount of elemental defense - and the fact that the mobs in question dont debuff any resistance.
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So because you don't know how to play a brute, Wp sucks? Gimme a break dude. My WP brute can take, manage, and hold just about anything.
If you can't go toe to toe with any GM redside, your doing it wrong. If you can't have a picnik under a RWZ Pylon your doing it wrong. If you can't do the RWZ challenge while being attacked by a lvl 54 EB....your doing it wrong.
WP is the funk. It is you that is weak.
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Meanwhile, my SS/WP Brute has yet to find an 8-man spawn of lts that he can survive for more than five seconds. 37189246789123 percent regen is only nice if you can survive long enough to make it matter.
[/ QUOTE ]
SS/WP is perhaps the most survivable powerhouse outside of stone available redside. Can you post your build?
You should easily be able to tank normal content. Now, if you are talking about missions in AE, WP can get chewed up against specialized mobs. The problem then is you are playing the wrong thing - bringing a hammer when a wrench is needed.
[/ QUOTE ]
no it's not
151377
all dual blade lt's. all immune to stun but not knockback
tell me how your /wp does in there with both tough and weave.
however my willpower can tank those missions those ss/fire brutes like to setup easily due to a high amount of elemental defense - and the fact that the mobs in question dont debuff any resistance.
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So because you don't know how to play a brute, Wp sucks? Gimme a break dude. My WP brute can take, manage, and hold just about anything.
If you can't go toe to toe with any GM redside, your doing it wrong. If you can't have a picnik under a RWZ Pylon your doing it wrong. If you can't do the RWZ challenge while being attacked by a lvl 54 EB....your doing it wrong.
WP is the funk. It is you that is weak.
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go do that mission as your /wp brute set for 8
Let me explain a bit.
My SS/WP is level...I want to say 25. I don't have CoX in front of me right now, so I might be off by a level.
I play AEs, almost exclusively. I prefer teaming over soloing, generally.
I don't have a "Patron" toon to farm billions for me. As such, slotting is on a "As I can afford it" policy.
When I'm in a team, I'm expected to tank. I've only been in a couple of groups that -didn't- expect me to tank, and that's only because a higher level Brute was with us.
Now that I'm reflecting on it, most brutes in our teams below the level of 30 melted under "tanking" conditions.
I'm willing to accept the idea that I'm Bad At This(tm), especially considering that I didn't really mess with Brutes in depth until post-AE.
I think some folks are confusing taking the alpha with tanking. If you are the only brute on a team, you are generally expected to charge in first to take the alpha, but I've never been on a team that expects my brute to keep all the aggro taunted to me like a tank does.
Hey Jupiter, I played it. It was kinda hard, I had to use SoW often, but it wasn't anything to write home about. You should try my arc listed in my sig.
One thing, you said these mobs weren't debuffing....but they are. Watch your defense. My WP brute has right around 30% defense to all, and those mobs kept me around -30%.....that means I'm getting hit twice as much. If you don't have alot of defense like me, your probably somewhere around -60% defense when fighting these mobs. That is a pretty big component to leave out of your story.
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Hey Jupiter, I played it. It was kinda hard, I had to use SoW often, but it wasn't anything to write home about. You should try my arc listed in my sig.
One thing, you said these mobs weren't debuffing....but they are. Watch your defense. My WP brute has right around 30% defense to all, and those mobs kept me around -30%.....that means I'm getting hit twice as much. If you don't have alot of defense like me, your probably somewhere around -60% defense when fighting these mobs. That is a pretty big component to leave out of your story.
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you've got yourself a little confused.
i never made mention of what the mobs in the arc i listed debuffed.
i only made mention that in other arcs with different mobs with no debuffs at all it was a breeze
my sm/wp has 35% smash/lethal and 30% to almost everything else. however unless you have SoW going, you will only have 50% smash/lethal resist
with both a sonic and thermal buffing you, a /wp brute can tank as well as a tanker. not even SoW caps a /wp brute with tough. since the incoming dmg cant be avoided - and it's pretty much similar what one has to deal with on the ITF or cimerora - i consider the arc i listed as a good measuring tool for how your brute will survive on a team.
which was my original point - that arc will destroy a /wp brute who isnt on his/her toes, doesnt have tough and doesnt have SoW or have some aoe cc in their primary to add another layer of mitigation. however if you add a sonic and a thermal corruptor - or two sonics or two thermals or ONE sonic defender - a willpower tanker/brute becomes the toughest things in the game.
easier to do on a tanker of course. they can hit 71% smash/lethal resists, can softcap all dmg types with relatively inexpensive io's (relatively - they are more available blueside due to population, but tend to cost a bit more - to the saving is a savings in time hunting for the recipes) and one sonic defender caps them.
i'm sorely tempted to make a new 3 box - 1 sonic corruptor, 1 thermal corruptor, 1 willpower brute. or 2 sonic corruptors for the -resist aura they can stack on the brute. it sure as hell wont farm like my ss/fire, fire/kin, fire/sonic combo does - but it will tank the hell out of anything that doesnt feature longbow spec ops (gd heroes..they have almost NO regen debuffing enemies and we get a metric butt-ton: longbow, arachnoids and more)
I just wish things would stop focusing on my brute, he hurts on full teams, he does. Elec/elec fantastic concept character, unfortunately, it creates stupid high aoe threat, and cannot take a punch to save my life.
Well these days a Brute can really tank exceptionally well if you build them to do that. You get the right IO sets and you can build a Great Tanker out of a brute but you going to give up damage and recharge boost in your sets bonuses. You can build a brute that min/maxs and come out with a Very well Balance toon, A Very good tank and a Very good damage dealer. Ya do get more then one build now and it is perfect for brutes. Ya build one with pure dps in mind. I have 182 recharge on one brute build with a ton of damage. On the other build I have him defense capped and he can tank 54 boss farms without any risk of dying. Normally does not drop below 80 percent hp. If I tried that on the Dsp build I would Face Plant. Today with Io Sets you can do either. Be an exceptional tank and solid Dps or be Exceptional Dsp and tank decently.
Complainers: Now you can complain about the Survability of you Secondary if ya want. I can Take any brute Secondary "including Fire because I had done it" and Focus on making that Brute a TANK and guess what? You will be able to tank just about anything in this game easily. But then you going to complain ya dont do enough damage and you would be right to be unhappy with the damage on such a brute. I could build you a brute that dishes out damage that will make most scappers green but they dont complain that you cant tank. YOU BUILD the toon if your complaining about either you got the tools to fix it. You just want the DEvs to fix it for you so you dont have to give anything up. Well that aint the way it works. You dont get to Be a Tanker with Scapper DPS. Sorry. Deal.
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The Devs gave us Taunt Auras, like Tankers and Scrappers.
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They sure did!
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The Devs gave us Taunt, like Tankers and Scrappers.
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From the AoE standpoint it's more like tankers. Scrapper taunts are single target.
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The Devs gave us Gauntlet in our attacks, like Tankers.
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I need to do a side by side comparrison. I don't think the devs gave away the tanker inherrent here am implied. I think it's a watered down version if anything. I'll get back to you on this.
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The Devs failed to give Masterminds a tool to control their Aggro themselves.
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The pets themselves have high threat levels. And while MM's don't have a ranged taunt in their primary or secondary, a 6 slotted provoke fills in quite nicely.
How do I know this? Just last night I tanked the ITF on my SO'd mastermind. The only melee toon we had was a /WP stalker.
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The Devs failed to give Brutes the tools to survive the Aggro they gather using SOs and their armors, alone.
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Not sure I agree with this point. I believe player skill comes into play here.
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Dunno, on my Thug/Poison MM I often out "tank" brutes. I can even outlast them. In fact I think my MM can outsurvive stuff my soft cap brute or willpower brute can't (don't like stone so I dunno on that) Does that mean I can keep aggro on the LRSF or AVs? No, I see brutes more of surviving long battles and MMs more of alpha takers.
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there's more to tanking than just surviving. you arent going to be able to hold the attention of an 8 man spawn from the other 7 members doing dmg with just one aoe from one of your pets.
one aoe from a brute hits every mobs in range with a "400% taunt on target" for 13 seconds.
you can build a squishy brute if you wish, just hope there is another tougher brute on any team you join to eat the alphas and effectively tank.
my thugs/traps is the most powerful character i've ever seen in this game in terms of survivability and dmg output. but it cant hold an 8 man spawns attention when there are corruptors also aoe'ng.
about the only time a pet can effectively peel a mob off a brute is if the brute is willpower and using no aoe's or hitting said mob, because willpower has a weak taunt with a short duration. otherwise damage alone wont pull a mob off a brute if it's in range of said brutes taunt aura unless it was just knocked out of range between aura pulses.