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Cages and Stalagmites are horrendous as far as obscuring-the-screen graphics go
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Stalagmites is one of the most innocuous control powers with respect to graphics.
People should be spayed and neutered for using stone cages when in remotely tight quarters (anything with a roof).
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Cages and Stalagmites are horrendous as far as obscuring-the-screen graphics go
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Stalagmites is one of the most innocuous control powers with respect to graphics.
People should be spayed and neutered for using stone cages when in remotely tight quarters (anything with a roof).
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I knew it was one of the two. 
Interesting bit of debate on Salt Crystals
I'd say its problem, for me, is not (just) it being a sleep, but PBAOE. But, part of the decision on its usefulness (or not) is likely also going to come from what secondary you choose.
The reason I say that, honestly, is Ice control. Specifically, Arctic Air. My Ice controllers, who tend to stay at range - never touch it. They're almost never in melee. (Ice/Emp, Ice/Rad - though that one's a bit low.) On the flip side, though, my Ice/Psy Dom has it, uses it, and loves it - because she's in melee *very* often. It's right where she needs to be.
For my Earth 'trollers - SC has the issue of (a) being an easily broken sleep and (b) being in a range that I'm typically not in, so really, for me, the power may as well not exist. I'm not sure how well it would work in an Earth Dom's chain - hop in, hit that then your PBAOE attack just for the -def, perhaps. Or, controller wise, with /rad or /kin. *shrug* It's just a not-quite-fitting power to me.
But hey, if you can use it with your playstyle, more power to ya
qr
<opens up a jerry can>
Earth is so powerful that the aoe sleep is generally useless for most builds and most situations. Unlike that crappy MIND set...
<ckecks can, still plenty of fuel for another time. Closes can>
skippable powers while leveling:
st immob
aoe immob
salt crystals
*You'll eventually want one or both immobs depending on whether you have a need to immob st targets (AV's) or want frequent aoe containment (to leverage epic aoe attack).
SC takes a very cheap purple set and last time I checked the purple immob set was reasonable too, so you need to weight that in as well in late game.
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Cages and Stalagmites are horrendous as far as obscuring-the-screen graphics go
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Stalagmites is one of the most innocuous control powers with respect to graphics.
People should be spayed and neutered for using stone cages when in remotely tight quarters (anything with a roof).
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Stalagmites isnt bad as it only lasts a second for the animation. But stone cages i've been saying for YEARS needs to be toned down so the cages only go to waist high length like frostbite does.
Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental
Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration
Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server
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People should be spayed and neutered for using stone cages when in remotely tight quarters (anything with a roof).
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OR people should learn to use TAB to target and not worry about the room full of dirt and whether you can see the baddies.
[the above was not to be taken seriously.....sort of]
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
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People should be spayed and neutered for using stone cages when in remotely tight quarters (anything with a roof).
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How do you spay and neuter one person?!? The horror!
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People should be spayed and neutered for using stone cages when in remotely tight quarters (anything with a roof).
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How do you spay and neuter one person?!? The horror!
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Apersonwithpoorreadingcomprehensionskillssayswhat?
(Your interpretation of "people should be ..." as "each person should be ..." is actually not unreasonable... I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to comment on apparent irony.)
I team with the Repeat Offenders.
I wanta salt crystal this thread... :P
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I wanta salt crystal this thread... :P
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Too many attacks flying around for that. 
I've never found Stone Cages that much of a problem --- assuming that the mobs have already been rounded up and concentrated. It's only a problem if it's done to scattered mobs.
Then again, on my tankers I like Salt Crystals as an ancillary power. I really don't care about the sleep, although some of the sleep sets have valuable bonuses that are usually pretty easy to get; nobody slots up sleep, it seems. If the sleep is broken immediately, so what? I have attacked everything around me, up to 10, in a radius that's much larger than any of the PBAoEs available in my secondary. And everything it hits is therefore subject to tanker taunt for more than 10 seconds.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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Then again, on my tankers I like Salt Crystals as an ancillary power. I really don't care about the sleep, although some of the sleep sets have valuable bonuses that are usually pretty easy to get; nobody slots up sleep, it seems. If the sleep is broken immediately, so what? I have attacked everything around me, up to 10, in a radius that's much larger than any of the PBAoEs available in my secondary. And everything it hits is therefore subject to tanker taunt for more than 10 seconds.
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Salt Crystals on a Tanker is IMO more useful than on a Controller for the reasons you list. An Earth Controller already has ready resources for the easy -Defense that Salt Crystals provides and Tankers (generally) don't have many controls to pick from or AoEs with such a large radius. On a Tanker Salt Crystals can almost be considered a 25ft radius Taunt that sometimes sleeps enemies.
On an Earth Controller Salt Crystals isn't terrible but it's nothing to write home about either. Compared to Plant's sleep, Spore Burst, it takes twice as long to recharge (90 seconds vs 45) costs slightly more endurance (15.6 vs 13), is PBAoE instead of ranged, and lasts a shorter time when it does hit (18.6s vs 22.4s). The only things Salt Crystals does better are provide -Defense and an extra 5ft of range. The -Defense it provides would be helpful if this weren't a discussion about dropping other powers that also provide -20% defense. In any case, Earth Control already provide tons of -Defense, and only so much is really practical due to negative defense caps and the fact that you can never get a higher than 95% chance to hit anyway.
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I've never found Stone Cages that much of a problem --- assuming that the mobs have already been rounded up and concentrated. It's only a problem if it's done to scattered mobs.
Then again, on my tankers I like Salt Crystals as an ancillary power. I really don't care about the sleep, although some of the sleep sets have valuable bonuses that are usually pretty easy to get; nobody slots up sleep, it seems. If the sleep is broken immediately, so what? I have attacked everything around me, up to 10, in a radius that's much larger than any of the PBAoEs available in my secondary. And everything it hits is therefore subject to tanker taunt for more than 10 seconds.
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IIRC salt crystals is a 25 foot radius
Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental
Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration
Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server
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I've never found Stone Cages that much of a problem --- assuming that the mobs have already been rounded up and concentrated. It's only a problem if it's done to scattered mobs.
Then again, on my tankers I like Salt Crystals as an ancillary power. I really don't care about the sleep, although some of the sleep sets have valuable bonuses that are usually pretty easy to get; nobody slots up sleep, it seems. If the sleep is broken immediately, so what? I have attacked everything around me, up to 10, in a radius that's much larger than any of the PBAoEs available in my secondary. And everything it hits is therefore subject to tanker taunt for more than 10 seconds.
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IIRC salt crystals is a 25 foot radius
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30' actually.
[qr]
i have an Earth Dom and I would agree with the general perception that Salt Crystals is the least "build impacting" of the powers and can skipped. i have an Ice Dominator as well and I do know how great it is to use the LoS tactic. For the most part I agree with what's been said that most good fast paced team you don't always need to use that tactic. Most times i don't have to cast Quicksand or Ice Slick until the tank has given me the thumbs up.
-The Elite-[50's]Va'Leria�X'hian�Stormy Monday�Radical Burn�Mo'Mentum�Heat-Source�Professor Blaze
-World Wide Evil, Inc-[50s]Soulfire�Perma.Frost�Kold Soul�Foxphyre�Pitch-Black�Corrupt Fusion�Cassanova Brown�Tyler Thorn�Iron Siren�Solaura�Fortunauta Wade�Look'Alike�Arctic Engineer
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Most of the time, Line of Sight is simply not a problem. In those few situations where it is, Earth Control has both Earthquake and Volcanic Gasses. Requiring Line of Sight is a very weak reason to want to skip a powerful control like Stalagmites. And my experience suggests that you are substantially overstating concerns about poor accuracy.
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I'm sure the defense debuffs in Earth control help mitigate the accuracy penalties of hard controls, but I was soured of the tactic quite early on in my Fire/Kin's career. Unfortunately, Fire Control really doesn't have better options, whereas Earth Control has them in spades.
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If I have a tank on the team, then Accuracy really isn't much of a problem . . . as long as the tank can survive for about 10 seconds or less. I used to use this tactic against +4 foes all the time. As the tank runs in to get aggro, I can lay down Quicksand with its -25% Defense. Then Stalagmites and Stone Cages hit quite reliably.
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I prefer Quicksand + Earthquake in such situations. Not only is it faster, but I debuff accuracy as well and still have no need to move into LoS of my targets.
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And part of the point of not taking Salt Crystals is that I DON'T have any other PB AoE powers. I don't have Choking Cloud or Consume on my Earth/Rad -- don't need them. I have no reason to go into melee.
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And therefore no Earth Controller should have a reason? I've previously asserted that Earth/Rad is versatile enough to accomodate both ranged- and melee-oriented strategies, but you've staunchly maintained that your way is the only way, or the best way, to be effective. I continue to disagree.
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Your snooty response fails to take some important things into account. (a) On a fast moving team, the tank is usually leading the way, plowing into the next group as soon as the last one was finished. I don't need to worry about hiding when the tank takes the initial aggro.
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A fast moving team also implies that spawns are defeated quickly, does it not? If you've got a couple of Blasters or other AoE heavy characters (and there are plenty of builds that fit this label) on the team then the only thing left after the six and a half seconds it takes you to fire off your combo will be a boss and maybe a LT, and in all likelihood you'll not have stopped the Boss from being able to retaliate. This is a good tactic? I'll use VG from safety, target the Boss and then Fossilize him ASAP. If VG is not up, I'll QS+Earthquake, then Fossilize. As I said, on teams Salt Crystals is either a panic button or quick and easy way to help my teammates hit especially tough opponents.
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(b) It takes a few seconds to find a corner, determine the right options and then lay out the location-targetted control power -- activation time is not the only thing to consider. Location-targetted powers take a little longer to activate, since they require an activation of the power and then a point-n-click to determine where the power will activate. On the other hand, the time it takes for the Stalagmites-Stone Cages combo isn't all that relevant. Stalagmites has the stun hit in a very short time without notice to the foes -- after that, they are all stunned and if it takes me another few seconds to lay down Stone Cages, so what? While I do my thing, everyone else on the team is moving in to wipe out the foes. I control any individuals who weren't held with the combo, and by then, just about everyone is defeated . . . then it is time to chase after the tank again.
A good tank knows how to keep a team moving along. He knows when the controller has everything under control so that he can then move on to the next group while the rest of the team cleans up. Maybe you just aren't used to playing with good tanks?
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This tells me that you agree that a 6.37 second combo is not an effective tactic on a fast moving team, sort of what I was saying above. It doesn't take me 5.2 seconds (the difference between Stalag+Cages+Quicksand and Volcanic Gasses) to find a corner, determine options and target the power, but maybe I just have more practice at it.
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I just don't see how you can believe that Salt Crystals is better than Stalagmites. I understand how you could use Salt Crystals as a set-up for VG, but you can do the same thing with Stalagmites without having to run into melee.
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The reason you don't see how I can believe Salt Crystals is better than Stalagmites is, once again, because that has not been my assertion. I didn't even mention the power in the post you quoted.
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I was referring to the overall message in your posts. You said that you dropped Stalagmites and Stone Cages, and argued that Salt Crystals has more merit than those powers.
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I continue to assert that a Sleep+Hold tactic is superior to a Stun+Immobilize tactic for Earth Controllers. That does not equate to Salt Crystals being superior to Stalagmites on its own. It would be refreshing if someone would address that assertion instead of putting words in my mouth, please.
We haven't even gotten into the discussion of graphics. Stone Cages and Stalagmites are horrendous as far as obscuring-the-screen graphics go, but I think that they can be suppressed by other players now, can they not?