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Cool, having seen many then can you link me to where someone has said that pls?
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Originally Posted by AlienOne
Show me somewhere in game where it says "Warshades have to be purple" or "Peacebringers have to be white/lightblue" and I won't make this claim again.
I tire of people saying that those two specific colors are "canon," when in fact, they are not. |
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Sure. I've seen several, but since the new "boards changeover," a bunch of them seem to be lost. (the search function is a great tool on these boards, by the way)|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
Cool, having seen many then can you link me to where someone has said that pls?
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Here's a couple:
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Originally Posted by Necrotron
Khelds, ayup, they could let you customise them. The question is, do they want to? It's the same question as "do we want to customise Patron pools?", with the same concern: the look of these powers is rooted within the lore.
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Originally Posted by Necrotron
Well sure, if they want to bend the lore a bit to allow for kheld customisation, they can do that.
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Here's two other posts where I stated pretty much the same thing I stated here in this thread:
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Originally Posted by AlienOne
And where exactly does it say that all Warshades have to be purple? Why can't it just be "dark?" Limiting them to *dark* colors? Why would they have to be limited to one single color on their home planet? Same for Peacebringers... Why couldn't they have a little variety across the "light" color spectrum? Is your "lore imagination" that small?
"The One" |
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Originally Posted by AlienOne
May I point you to the most complete guide for Kheldians lore. I can't seem to find anything in game lore that states that Warshades "must be purple" or Peacebringers "must be white/blue."
All it says is that Warshades are dark, and Peacebringers are light. Who says they can't be variations of light and variations of dark? FYI, I've been told that coloring is not "out of the picture" and "doable" for Khelds when I talked to a certain someone at Comic-Con... I'm just trying to find out where this misconception that Kheldians "must" be a certain specific color according to game lore, as some people in this thread have stated. "The One" *EDIT* I realize someone could make the argument "Well, they're all the same color in the game, so the Devs obviously intended them to be that way." However, ice powers were blue when designed, and all characters with ice powers had the same colors. All characters with electricity had the same color when designed. All characters with empathy had the same colors. They were all designed by the Devs that way. Yet, they're allowing those characters to change their colors, because there was a cry for it by the player community. So, that argument is a moot point, as the Devs have already shown themselves willing to make adjustments/improve on their game when the players request it. I'm requesting color changing for Khelds. |
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Originally Posted by bjooks
But how would it bend lore? Admittedly, by this point I'm not remembering what I got from missions and what I read from the wiki (which is pretty dang accurate, usually), but it seems like the lore wouldn't need to be bent. The forms, after all, aren't part of the Kheldian energy beings but are residual memories of previous hosts from other planets. Or am I completely wrong (and if so, is the wiki wrong as well, or am I misreading)?
I did ask to correct me if I was wrong, so can you let me know where I'm confusing the lore. Much appreciated. d |
Do you think that everyone having green radiation is based in lore? No, that's just common perception that "all radiation is green." Is that a good enough excuse to withhold power customization from a playerbase? Evidently not, because we now have power customization for all aforementioned powers.
I'm sorry, but not liking my "wording" doesn't make me any less right or wrong in the stance I'm taking here.
Again, you're more than welcome to prove me (or this other guy) wrong by showing where in "lore" or "canon" it says that "Peacebringers have to be white" and Warshades "have to be purple."
"Alien"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
If I might interject something here, in the original comics featuring Horus, War Witch and Apex, Horus' Nova form was a sort of a green color, but was referred to as a "yellow, squiddy Kheldian" by Requiem, whose powers were more of a magenta shade. So I think if there were ever a "canon" color for Khelds it ought to be in the official comics.
I'm all for full customization of everything, BTW, just pointing this out.
Hello, my name is @Caligdoiel and I'm an altoholic.
And I'd like to point out that the original color for Electricity was NOT blue. If you try to match the original Legacy color very closely (and believe me, I have) it is an indigo/bluish hue with a purple secondary color. Likewise, evil Electricity is reddish (and darker) with a somewhat more lavender secondary. So in fact hero and villain Electricity are both a mix of blue and red. 
As for the topic, as Kheldian forms clearly cannot be customized for the same reason Granite Form cannot be customized (they're implemented in the same way, so as far as BaBs has been able to push the technology so far it's impossible) I would consider it more likely they would get their blasts customized before they got their forms customized, not the other way around. I don't really think the devs would allow the more difficult option and not allow the option that's easy.
I'm pretty convinced that Kheldians aren't customizable because without form customization it really isn't up to the standard the devs want to set for themselves. It's the same reason we didn't get capes for a year.
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And I'd like to point out that my quote that you're referring to does not have me saying anywhere that electricity is blue. I said "ice" was blue, and then I followed that statement with "all characters with electric powers had the same color," (not referring to any specific color) and then said that "all characters with empathy had the same colors" (not referring to any specific color).|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
And I'd like to point out that the original color for Electricity was NOT blue.
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Are you people seriously LOOKING for some reason to point out that "OMGALIENISALIAR!!!!!111111111"?
I don't usually post anything unless I have the facts, have researched it, or at the very least possess a strong opinion on the subject.
I'd say that disagreeing on specific color shades is just a bit over the top. Having a choice on color shades is what we're discussing here--not what color shades "used to be."
On top of that, the granite armor issue is something I actually already addressed in this very thread.
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Originally Posted by AlienOne
That actually could be the reasoning why Khelds do NOT have power customization available to them. Once they figure out a way to customize granite armor (because that power completely replaces your other costume--rather than it being an overlay--like dwarf and nova forms do), then we may be on the road to seeing Khelds with power customization.
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
Personally...I don't see the problems with Kheldians having power customization. I know that people say that it's "canon" for Peacebringers to have Blue/White powers, and for Warshades to have Purple, but just take a look at each of their respective starting contacts.
Sunstorm has Bright White/Silver/tinted Yellow energy coming from his eyes, and Shadowstar has BLACK. That alone should prove that it's possible, even in game canon, for Kheldians to showcase various power colors.
At least imho. I just want everything customized!
Love me or hate me, it's still an obsession.
Peacebringers should get light and Warshades dark tinting.
As for their Nova and Dwarf forms...
Fire Imps are colourable on a per player basis, basically the summon power passes the selected colours to the Imps as they summon.
Nova and Dwarf powers are replacement character summons, but technically they should be able to get the colour information from the toggled form power.
(Devs: As such this should also fix/allow Granite customisation.)
Nuff Said...
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And you know all this... how exactly, did you inspect demo-files, or are you privy to some inside information about the inner working of the game?
Originally Posted by Coolio
Nova and Dwarf powers are replacement character summons, but technically they should be able to get the colour information from the toggled form power.
(Devs: As such this should also fix/allow Granite customization.)
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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Yes I'm sure you know this game better than BABs. That guy would NEVER have thought of this idea for sure!
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Originally Posted by Coolio
Peacebringers should get light and Warshades dark tinting.
As for their Nova and Dwarf forms... Fire Imps are colourable on a per player basis, basically the summon power passes the selected colours to the Imps as they summon. Nova and Dwarf powers are replacement character summons, but technically they should be able to get the colour information from the toggled form power. (Devs: As such this should also fix/allow Granite customisation.) |
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It's not even a question of 'idea'. It's a question of how is the data modeled; is the rendering engine capable of accepting coloring hints or outright RGB values per each layer/pixel/whatever for the Nova/Dwarf graphic models... I dare-say, it's complicated.
Originally Posted by Liberty_Paradox
Yes I'm sure you know this game better than BABs. That guy would NEVER have thought of this idea for sure!
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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I believe the hangup is that nova, dwarf and granite are not 'powers' but NPC's. (So it would be easier for nova form to transform into Hammidon than a green nova) The way they are referenced is different, so saving a change to their colors is a very different (and difficult) process. Look at Back Alley Brawler's posts about granite, and you start to see the headaches the gent's getting with trying to get it changeable. ...And this seems the hangup, in my opinion, with kheld customization. I bet once they figure out how to customize granite, khelds and all of their sets will follow quickly.|
Originally Posted by Coolio
Peacebringers should get light and Warshades dark tinting.
As for their Nova and Dwarf forms... Fire Imps are colourable on a per player basis, basically the summon power passes the selected colours to the Imps as they summon. Nova and Dwarf powers are replacement character summons, but technically they should be able to get the colour information from the toggled form power. (Devs: As such this should also fix/allow Granite customisation.) |
Heck, once they figure out this custom NPC tinting, masterminds might see their own minions colors.
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Well, I was actually SUPPORTING your argument, but if you're going to blindly attack an attempt to inject a little levity into the thread, then maybe I won't any more.|
Originally Posted by AlienOne
And I'd like to point out that my quote that you're referring to does not have me saying anywhere that electricity is blue.
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So much for levity anyway...
As Seldon said, this is likely holding up Masterminds, as well. Although it's likely that the problem is even MORE complicated for them, or at least complicated in a different way. (They do signify upgrades with a costume change, though, so that could be the limiting factor)
Well, everybody's speculating on what's canon and how difficult the form tech is... Nobody knows for certain how hard it'll be nor whether the Devs will forego Kheld Customization in the name of canon. My bet is it will happen (and if no customization of any kind is allowed for Khelds, I will be very, very, very dissappointed grrr) so how 'bout some more thoughts/hopes on what form of customization we'd like to see?
Since I prefer Human Only, I didn't give much thought into Form Customization, but here's how I'd like to see that happen (trying to keep to things that are at least remotely possible):
I think 'Nova' and 'Dwarf' should remain the alt forms (that really is Canon) but maybe different kinds of Nova/Dwarf. You have your Legacy (current forms) and maybe two alternates.
For Nova, 1) perhaps a sleeker, edgier Nova, maybe with membranous wings in place of the tentacles and 2) a blocky, thicker Nova, with fewer, thicker tentacles, perhaps ending in hooks.
For Dwarf, 1) a leaner armored form, w. Claws appearing more Blade-like, and 2) a Spiky Dwarf form, maybe with a tail like a Stegosaurus.
All of these, or course, colourable as you see fit.
The option to have a non-Nova/Dwarf form might be valid. Is it Canon that the two templates are the only races Khelds ever mass-bonded with? We're talking millenia here...
A form that's sorta between the blasterish Nova and tankish Dwarf could be interesting, but then we're getting into new powers/sets territory, and beyond customization.
And I do hope they do something custom cool with the Secondary Tier-9s look, least for PBs.
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Well, while I'd love to see total customization, like on the lines of our costumes, I don't think that'll ever happen. Not because it's not possible, but because it would just overly complicate the interface. OTOH, I did once ask whether or not Kheldian players would be willing to sacrifice a costume slot or two for our Kheldian forms. SoA have a special costume for their first slot, and in fact they get six total, although they can only access five of them. So technically speaking we would use that sixth "locked" costume (which I guess everyone has) for Nova, and devote slot 5 to our Dwarf form. (or vice versa)|
Originally Posted by Socorro
My bet is it will happen (and if no customization of any kind is allowed for Khelds, I will be very, very, very dissappointed grrr) so how 'bout some more thoughts/hopes on what form of customization we'd like to see?
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It also comes down to what is possible for Granite Form, though. BaBs suggested, since he didn't think he'd be able to customize the Granite costume, replacing that with a normal "accessory" added onto the character's frame. So you would add stone "blocks" to the current costume to "fill out" the Granite Form, essentially covering the character underneath with a coating of stone. This is kind of the concept, in some cases you might want to say your character has transformed into stone, but you could also say he just encased himself in stone for protection.
The problem is, while this would probably work okay for Dwarf form, it wouldn't work on Nova. We could "coat" our normal frame with the Dwarf "costume", and then make our human form invisibile underneath it, but the Nova form uses a totally different skeleton. And I'm not really sure the Dwarf skeleton isn't different enough as it is, it uses the Huge model, which tends to lean forward a bit more. So doing our Forms like Granite might completely change the way they look anyway, maybe still making them look alien, but more based on a humanoid frame.
Even if a solution could be found, there would be the question of what customization we would have through the Power Customization interface. We would have primary and secondary colors to choose from, yes, probably with a limited pallette, but we wouldn't really have the ability to pick and choose individual parts. We might be given a limited number of different "bodies", say three or five, and then get to choose the color. That would be it.
Honestly, I think I would almost rather go back to my original idea of the "weapon accessory", that appeared whenever you went into a combat stance. Say, make it work like a current weapon, where you can choose from a list of different styles, and then pick colors. You don't change all of your character, but because the "accessory" is smaller, it can have a lot more options without overloading the graphics devs. And instead of a weapon, it can be like a gem that appears on your chest, or a gauntlet on your claw, or a swirling "eddy" inside your body. Since you can have two weapons, maybe you could even have your pick of two accessories.
Of course, there is the added complication that the devs have said you can have Weapon customization OR you can have Color customization. OTOH, that's on the same power, I don't know that the devs have said that you can have Weapon customization on one power in a Set, and Color customization on another power in the set. Anyway, the same option could be used for Granite, too, they could keep the current form, but have a couple of "extras" you can add on and colorize for additional individuality.
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Originally Posted by AlienOne
and all characters with ice powers had the same colors.
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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
And I'd like to point out that the original color for Electricity was NOT blue.
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Originally Posted by AlienOne
And I'd like to point out that my quote that you're referring to does not have me saying anywhere that electricity is blue.
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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Well, I was actually SUPPORTING your argument, but if you're going to blindly attack an attempt to inject a little levity into the thread, then maybe I won't any more.
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No, can't see how that first quote from you was actually supporting my statement. Sounds like you were just trying to start an argument about power colors.
Actually, what it really looks like is that you're having trouble distinguishing between what is an attack and what is personal defense.
"Alien"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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It was a joke. It was a non sequitor. I was going off on a rant about power colors because it was off topic. Because the topic was starting to get a little too serious. When I got down to the point, as you pointed out, I said exactly the same thing you said about the Forms being the reason customization is being put off. |
Originally Posted by AlienOne
No, can't see how that first quote from you was actually supporting my statement. Sounds like you were just trying to start an argument about power colors.
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I am really sorry if you feel I was being argumentative, but it sounds to me like you are being overly defensive. I don't want you to feel that I'm contradicting you, and I don't want you to feel that I am attacking you. I am in favor of Customization, I'm even trying to make suggestions about how it might work.
I'm not angry at you or anybody else... I just feel the need to defend myself when it seems I'm being mis-quoted or mis-read, as it seemed in this situation. No harm done.
"Alien"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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Okay. No harm done. |
Originally Posted by AlienOne
I'm not angry at you or anybody else... I just feel the need to defend myself when it seems I'm being mis-quoted or mis-read, as it seemed in this situation. No harm done.
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Well.. just back from Hero-Con. I asked this question after one of the panels. What we were told is, at this time it would be very difficult to accomplish. Costumizing Nova and Dwarf forms are on the same lines as costumizing MM pets. They are working on getting pool/epic/patron powers done first. There has also been lots of debate in office about should a khelds colors actually change because it is the nature of a Kheldian. Sooo, the final answer was not anytime soon, but it is on list to look at.
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Inara Violet ~ Level 50 Tri-Form Warshade
Thanks for the update, demonic...
Much appreciated.
And envious that I couldn't go. :P
"Alien"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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Originally Posted by demonic_raven
Well.. just back from Hero-Con. I asked this question after one of the panels. What we were told is, at this time it would be very difficult to accomplish. Costumizing Nova and Dwarf forms are on the same lines as costumizing MM pets. They are working on getting pool/epic/patron powers done first. There has also been lots of debate in office about should a khelds colors actually change because it is the nature of a Kheldian. Sooo, the final answer was not anytime soon, but it is on list to look at.
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Not what I wanted to hear, but not totally unexpected either.
2 Things:
1) As to the 'Nature of Khelds', I merely want to remind the Devs that Color <> Nature. Ex: it is not the nature of humans to be a specific color. If it's a lot of work and other things take priority that's one thing - but please don't use 'Kheldian Nature' as the reason for not doing it.
2) I wants change meh Khield Powerz colorss now, dangt!!!
I can understand arguing about whether Kheldians could look different from each other, but... they did use palettes for customization... you can't do all colors depending on the power. They could just do the same for Kheldians, even limit it more if they wanted, so it was all shades of the whitish light for PBs, and purplish for Warshades. I think just some more variants on the color would be enough for most people (but let me know if I'm wrong).
Hmmm, this makes me wonder why they allowed Kheldians with PB-like powers into the Imperious TF/SF. Supposedly, they're all nictus, so it's rather iffy that they allowed that coloring in.
Though I suppose it has more to do with the other limitation issues they have (Voids spawning with odd enemy groups, crystals spawning with ambushes, etc.).
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That would look completely stupid in my opinion.|
Originally Posted by Socorro
Finally, if we can pick our Animation (never gonna happen
)...Hmmm. I dunno, maybe apply SS's Knockout Blow animation to Incadescent Strike, and maybe a Handclap for Pulsar, or maybe even Solar Flare...Anybody else given this any thought? |
The animations fit perfectly, the only one I would like changed is Radiant Strike needs to have Havoc Punches animation instead of jab.
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You do realize that Requiem, the Crystals, and the final AV are the ONLY Nictus in the task force. Three enemies is a far difference than "all" as you say. I only say three because I don't count all the Crystals as difference enemies.
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Hmmm, this makes me wonder why they allowed Kheldians with PB-like powers into the Imperious TF/SF. Supposedly, they're all nictus, so it's rather iffy that they allowed that coloring in.
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"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
I too have heard directly from the Devs (at Comic-Con this year) that they're "looking at it" (referring to Kheldian power customization), but nothing actually definite. I haven't seen any sort of announcement on the topic, nor anything on the forums to say that they "plan to"... Therefore, I can't actually say "yes, the Devs said they would"... Only that they have (and presumably are still) looked into the possibility of it.
"Alien"
76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)