Constant crashs after 2nd HDD install
By
Armsman,
Posted on: 2009-05-22 11:49 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
I'm sure a wiser head than I will come in, but two things that might be going on are power issues (though a second disk shouldn't draw that much power), and a chipset driver issue. You're using an nForce2 chipset, are the drivers up to date? Maybe it's having a cow with some of your SATA ports or some crap. Again, someone wiser will be in soon I'm sure. 
Could you please tell us the wattage and amp ratings on your power supply..... It should be on a sticker facing the access side of the case. While heat can cause the issue you are experianceing I am leaning more twards a power issue. Also is this a manufactured PC or one you built..... If manufactured could you please list make and model?
[ QUOTE ]
At first i thought it was a heat problem. If i pointed a desk fan at the system it seemed to fix the problem, but now I'm not sure. I just installed two more new fans, a third 80mm and a pci exhaust fan. Now the crashes are worse than ever.
[/ QUOTE ]
It sounds like it may be a combination of power and heat issues. You put more load on the system, which not only draws more power directly, but increases the heat, which causes the fans to draw more power. Having an external fan helped, but adding fans drawing off your internal power supply made things worse.
Make sure you've physically cleaned out the system, particularly the heatsinks on your CPU and GPU, and the power supply itself. Getting some non-flammable canned air is a good idea. Try disconnecting most of your case fans (leaving CPU, GPU, and any motherboard (Northbridge) fans on), open the side of the case, and run with a desk fan blowing right through things. If it's any better, you've narrowed things down.
If you give us the detailed specs of your power supply, we may be able to estimate what's going on a bit better. It may never have been really powerful enough, or it may have partly failed at some point, or may have been cheap components that have aged badly.
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[ QUOTE ]
Memory: 2048MB
.Net Memory Report: 1700MB out of 2047MB available
Page File: 3739MB (204MB currently in use)
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm....
I'd like to see this log report:
<ul type="square">[*]HijackThis - it will show us what's running on your computer concurrently with CoH. Click on "Do a system Scan and save a logfile." It will automatically open up Notepad and put the info there. Make sure Wordwrap is off in Notepad (Format > Wordwrap unchecked) before you cut and paste here.
[/list]
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System is home built by a friend. Had it for 5 years though no problems till now.
Power Supply
Antec SL 350
350 Watt
DC out put
+5v/1.5A-35A; +12v/0.8A-16A; +3.3v/0.5-28A; -5v/0A-.5A; -12v/0A-.8A; +5v SB/ 0A-2.0A
+5, +3.3, +12v combine max outout 330watt
+5, +3.3 combine max output 230W
HiJack this log: with CoH running
Logfile of Trend Micro HijackThis v2.0.2
Scan saved at 5:54:52 AM, on 5/23/2009
Platform: Windows XP SP3 (WinNT 5.01.2600)
MSIE: Internet Explorer v6.00 SP3 (6.00.2900.5512)
Boot mode: Normal
Running processes:
C:\WINDOWS\System32\smss.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\winlogon.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\services.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\lsass.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\nvsvc32.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spoolsv.exe
C:\Program Files\Google\Update\GoogleUpdate.exe
C:\WINDOWS\Explorer.EXE
C:\Program Files\NVIDIA Corporation\NvMixer\NVMixerTray.exe
C:\Program Files\Java\jre6\bin\jusched.exe
C:\Program Files\Adobe\Reader 9.0\Reader\Reader_sl.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\RUNDLL32.EXE
C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\firefox.exe
C:\Program Files\Java\jre6\bin\jqs.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\wuauclt.exe
C:\Program Files\Trend Micro\HijackThis\HijackThis.exe
C:\City of Heroes\CityOfHeroes.exe
O2 - BHO: AcroIEHelperStub - {18DF081C-E8AD-4283-A596-FA578C2EBDC3} - C:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\Acrobat\ActiveX\AcroIEHelperShim.dll
O2 - BHO: Google Toolbar Notifier BHO - {AF69DE43-7D58-4638-B6FA-CE66B5AD205D} - C:\Program Files\Google\GoogleToolbarNotifier\5.1.1309.3572\s wg.dll
O2 - BHO: Java(tm) Plug-In 2 SSV Helper - {DBC80044-A445-435b-BC74-9C25C1C588A9} - C:\Program Files\Java\jre6\bin\jp2ssv.dll
O2 - BHO: JQSIEStartDetectorImpl - {E7E6F031-17CE-4C07-BC86-EABFE594F69C} - C:\Program Files\Java\jre6\lib\deploy\jqs\ie\jqs_plugin.dll
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NVMixerTray] "C:\Program Files\NVIDIA Corporation\NvMixer\NVMixerTray.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SunJavaUpdateSched] "C:\Program Files\Java\jre6\bin\jusched.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Adobe Reader Speed Launcher] "C:\Program Files\Adobe\Reader 9.0\Reader\Reader_sl.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [nwiz] nwiz.exe /install
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NvMediaCenter] RUNDLL32.EXE C:\WINDOWS\system32\NvMcTray.dll,NvTaskbarInit
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NvCplDaemon] RUNDLL32.EXE C:\WINDOWS\system32\NvCpl.dll,NvStartup
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [swg] C:\Program Files\Google\GoogleToolbarNotifier\GoogleToolbarNo tifier.exe
O9 - Extra button: (no name) - {e2e2dd38-d088-4134-82b7-f2ba38496583} - C:\WINDOWS\Network Diagnostic\xpnetdiag.exe
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: @xpsp3res.dll,-20001 - {e2e2dd38-d088-4134-82b7-f2ba38496583} - C:\WINDOWS\Network Diagnostic\xpnetdiag.exe
O9 - Extra button: Messenger - {FB5F1910-F110-11d2-BB9E-00C04F795683} - C:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exe
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Windows Messenger - {FB5F1910-F110-11d2-BB9E-00C04F795683} - C:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exe
O23 - Service: Google Update Service (gupdate1c9d1d5c7aa6be6) (gupdate1c9d1d5c7aa6be6) - Google Inc. - C:\Program Files\Google\Update\GoogleUpdate.exe
O23 - Service: Google Software Updater (gusvc) - Google - C:\Program Files\Google\Common\Google Updater\GoogleUpdaterService.exe
O23 - Service: Java Quick Starter (JavaQuickStarterService) - Sun Microsystems, Inc. - C:\Program Files\Java\jre6\bin\jqs.exe
O23 - Service: NVIDIA Display Driver Service (nvsvc) - NVIDIA Corporation - C:\WINDOWS\system32\nvsvc32.exe
--
End of file - 3171 bytes
[ QUOTE ]
Antec SL 350
350 Watt
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that's your problem right there. That's a good power supply, but you have too much on it.
http://educations.newegg.com/tool/psucalc/index.html
@Jimmy Amp
Currently working on:
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"Life writes the best scripts."
Odd... you're using a lot of memory but there really isn't much running in the background (although, you can easily kill the aggressive Google, Acrobat, Messenger, and Java processes).
On a reboot, open Task Manager and look under Performance: How much memory is being used by Page File (PF Usage)? Then run CoH for a while and see how much PF is being used.
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He was running C:\City of Heroes\CityOfHeroes.exe
[ QUOTE ]
He was running C:\City of Heroes\CityOfHeroes.exe
[/ QUOTE ]
I know, and it was still too high from my experience.
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First thank you everyone. I was just coming off a 12 hour 6pm-6am shift when i answered the last time. Hence the lack of Thanks there.
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On a reboot, open Task Manager and look under Performance: How much memory is being used by Page File (PF Usage)? Then run CoH for a while and see how much PF is being used.
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It looks like 166MB if that makes sense. Not quit sure what that means.
I've unhooked two fans, the second HDD and pulled 1 of 2 1GB ram sticks. It seems stable at this point.
So if i install a 500Watt Power supply do you think it will be enough? I can get a Speed 500 for 25 buck that shoudl not be too hard to install. Also notice that the video card is not running as hot. It was too hot to touch when it crashed before now it's just kinda warm.
Charlie
I'm not even paying attention that well, he only has 300MB in use and only 204 in the pagefile, I don't see anything strange memory wise.
If it started with a hardware change then I would chase down a hardware problem to start.
I wonder if the OP has tried the simplest test of just temporarily removing the 2nd HDD and the extra fans too if its a power supply problem.
[ QUOTE ]
I've unhooked two fans, the second HDD and pulled 1 of 2 1GB ram sticks. It seems stable at this point.
So if i install a 500Watt Power supply do you think it will be enough? I can get a Speed 500 for 25 buck that shoudl not be too hard to install. Also notice that the video card is not running as hot. It was too hot to touch when it crashed before now it's just kinda warm.
Charlie
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A power supply is not a part to go cut-rate. You get what you pay for with them. You want to go name-brand with them. Did you try the Wattage Calculator to see how much you roughly need? Newegg has Rosewill and BFG 550 Watt PSUs for about $50.
Here: Newegg 501-600 Watt PSUs
One tip to buying PSUs: the heavier, the better. The higher quality capacitors are much heavier than the cheaper, low-quality ones.
@Jimmy Amp
Currently working on:
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"Life writes the best scripts."
Most of Rosewill's PSUs are utter crap and you get what you pay for.
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[ QUOTE ]
Most of Rosewill's PSUs are utter crap and you get what you pay for.
[/ QUOTE ]
You've had bad experiences with them? I have a 600W Rosewill in one of my secondary machines and it's been pretty solid. Of course, haven't used it for gaming or anything like that. Just a utility box.
@Jimmy Amp
Currently working on:
Jimmy Crush - Kin/Regen Scrapper
"Life writes the best scripts."
Thanks for the help and advise people. I have unplugged two fans, one ram stick and the second hdd and that seems to have fixed everything. SO it a new power supply for me then.
I did the power requirement thing at new egg and it says I need at least a 450W.
About the quality thing. What is the differance between low and high? Is it just the life expectancy? or are there other issues? And if I buy a cheaper 500Watt will that work on a lower demanding system as well as a 450Watt more expensive one?
Thanks again for all the help. It's great you guys are willing to help us less technicaly knowlagable types when issues like these pop-up.
Charlie
Glad to see we got your issue solved up here. As to the inquiry on powersupplies..... the difference is not just in life expectancy, all tho that is one key point. Higher quality powersupplies are more stable and incorporate alot of advanced circuitry to handle power conditioning duties. This often leads to the difference between a PC that crashes for no reason and one that is perfectly stable. A better powersupply that has a higher quality stable power stream will also help your entire systems life expectancy.
Here are a couple of great powersupplies that arent to high above the 50 dollar mark.... spend the extra, its well worth it.
'this list is in order of preference' .
PC Power & Cooling Silencer PPCS500 500W ATX12V
SILVERSTONE ST50F 500W ATX12V
Antec earthwatts EA500 500W Continuous Power ATX12V
Spoke to soon. It's back again and worse than ever.
I'm back to thinking it's a heat problem. My video card is too hot to touch in certain places if i touch it right after it crashes.
Same video card for the last two+ years and a the problem is only 10 months old.
The on card fan is working.
(It just crashed again while typing this. I was touching the video card at the time. (I know it's not a very good idea but I'm all out of good ideas so I'm moving to the questionable ones.) I have a leadtek 7600GT with the most resent drivers i could find.
Any ideas?
Charlie
[ QUOTE ]
Spoke to soon. It's back again and worse than ever.
I'm back to thinking it's a heat problem. My video card is too hot to touch in certain places if i touch it right after it crashes.
Same video card for the last two+ years and a the problem is only 10 months old.
The on card fan is working.
(It just crashed again while typing this. I was touching the video card at the time. (I know it's not a very good idea but I'm all out of good ideas so I'm moving to the questionable ones.) I have a leadtek 7600GT with the most resent drivers i could find.
Any ideas?
Charlie
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd still bet it's your PSU that's dying. PC components need a reliable power flow. I will bet you one day soon, you'll hit the sitch and the only thing you'll hear is a PSU fan. Having items installed that drew more watts than it's rated for probably didn't help either. Remember that PSU WILL do over what their rated to some degree. Plus; if it IS your Video card, you'll need a PSU upgrade anyway to be able to run it.
At a certain point, it becomes more costly to try and 'patch up' an existing rig. At some point you have to either be willing to live with the limitations as it degrades; or bite the bullet andbuild a new 'more modern' one that'll still be somewhat obsolete in 6 months.
(And yes, I'm trying to interject some humor - and also realize that in the current economy finding the funds for a new rig may not be easy, or possible).
As heat builds up a powersupply become less efficient than when the air is cool ( meaning less available power ). Thusly it is most likely still your powersupply becoming unstable. It could also be a combo of both the powersupply and a heat issue...... the thing is you are gonna need a new powersupply anyway. That system has been over taxing the one in there for far too long to not have caused damage. The recomendations on that video card alone are for a 350 watt powersupply with at least 18 amps on the +12 volt rail. yours provides only 16 amps.
You are bearly squeeking by on the wattage but more importantly your over taxing the amperage with the video card by itself. This will cause a large amount of extra heat to be produced as the powersupply tries to keep up. Also the graphical elements in this game have become a nightmare with the last two issues ( not that they werent already ). Which means more heat from the video card. CoX is known to bring top of the line systems to their knees when they play all other current graphics rich games fine. Replacing that powersupply should be your first order of buisness. Just outa curiosity, were you playing the game when it crashed most recently and were you playing longer than when you had the other HDD hooked up?
[ QUOTE ]
As heat builds up a powersupply become less efficient than when the air is cool ( meaning less available power ). Thusly it is most likely still your powersupply becoming unstable. It could also be a combo of both the powersupply and a heat issue...... the thing is you are gonna need a new powersupply anyway. That system has been over taxing the one in there for far too long to not have caused damage. The recomendations on that video card alone are for a 350 watt powersupply with at least 18 amps on the +12 volt rail. yours provides only 16 amps.
You are bearly squeeking by on the wattage but more importantly your over taxing the amperage with the video card by itself. This will cause a large amount of extra heat to be produced as the powersupply tries to keep up. Also the graphical elements in this game have become a nightmare with the last two issues ( not that they werent already ). Which means more heat from the video card. CoX is known to bring top of the line systems to their knees when they play all other current graphics rich games fine. Replacing that powersupply should be your first order of buisness. Just outa curiosity, were you playing the game when it crashed most recently and were you playing longer than when you had the other HDD hooked up?
[/ QUOTE ]
This is an issue.
I don't get why CoX is so graphic intensive. IMO it's not even top of the line graphics among MMOs anymore.
Doesn't take away from your VERY SOUND advice, but it's just frustrating about this game's graphics. Which are no longer all that hot compared to other games out there.
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[ QUOTE ]
I don't get why CoX is so graphic intensive.
[/ QUOTE ]
See this post for a summary of some of the underlying reasons I recently gave to someone else.
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CoH Helper * HijackThis
Hello, hope yuo guys can help
Last summer i installed a second HD in my system for data storage. Since then I have had a problem with CoH crashing, a lot. At first i thought it was a heat problem. If i pointed a desk fan at the system it seemed to fix the problem, but now I'm not sure. I just installed two more new fans, a third 80mm and a pci exhaust fan. Now the crashes are worse than ever. For some reason opening the enhancement management window is the worst culprit. For a while I had a fan hanging off the video card inside the case blowing right on it, seemed to run ok since, but again it now has been worse than ever.
The crash is a black screen with a repeating almost vibrating noise from the speakers. Whole system is locked at this point and i have to reboot. I just ifinnished reformatting the system and installing all drivers new and updated. This is also the only game that has a problem. Bioshock, Red alert 3, movies, video files all work fine.
Here's CoH helper file
---System information gathered by CoH Helper version 0.1.1.4---
DxDiag gathered at May 22, 2009 14:38 (-04:00)
Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 3 (2600.xpsp_sp3_gdr.090206-1234)
System Manufacturer: NVIDIA
System Model: AWRDACPI
BIOS: Phoenix - AwardBIOS v6.00PG
Central Processor: AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2500+, MMX, 3DNow, ~1.8GHz
Memory: 2048MB
.Net Memory Report: 1700MB out of 2047MB available
Page File: 3739MB (204MB currently in use)
C Drive: (Maxtor 6Y080P0) 61623MB out of 78159MB (78%) free
D Drive: (WDC WD2500JB-00REA0) 110138MB out of 238472MB (46%) free
G Drive: (WDC WD50 00AAVS-00ZTB0 USB Device) 87675MB out of 476821MB (18%) free
E Drive: (HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4163B) zero-size drive
F Drive: (HL-DT-ST CD-RW GCE-8525B) zero-size drive
Windows directory location: C:\WINDOWS
DirectX: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
DirectX Diag version: 5.03.2600.5512 (32-bit version)
Display Notes: No problems found.
Sound Notes: No problems found.
Input Notes: No problems found.
Monitor: Plug and Play Monitor
Monitor's Max Resolution: 1600,1200
Video Device Name: WinFast A7600 GT (NVIDIA)
Manufacturer / Chip: NVIDIA / GeForce 7600 GT
Video Memory: 256.0 MB
Driver Version: 6.14.0010.9424
Driver Date: 4/19/2007 12:26:00 PM
Driver Language: English
Sound Device Description: NVIDIA(R) nForce(TM) Audio
Driver File: nvapu.sys
Driver Version: 6.14.0442.0030
Driver Date: 5/25/2004 3:58:04 PM
WMI Information
Motherboard Manufacturer: http://www.abit.com.tw/
Motherboard Model: (empty)
Motherboard Product: NF7-S/NF7-M/NF7 (nVidia-nForce2)
Motherboard Version: 1.X
BIOS Manufacturer: Phoenix Technologies, LTD
BIOS Name: Phoenix - AwardBIOS v6.00PG
BIOS Version: Nvidia - 42302e31
BIOS Release: 20040422000000.000000+000
Registry Information for Current User
Resolution: 1024x768
3D Resolution: 1024x768 (Not using renderscale)
Full Screen: Yes
Maximized: No
Screen Position: 0, 0
Refresh Rate: 60Hz
Vertical Sync Enabled: Yes
Physics Quality: Medium
Maximum Particles: 50000
Max Particle Fill? 10.000
Physics Card Enabled: No
Anti-aliasing: 4x
Anisotropic Filtering: 4x
Texture LOD Bias: Smooth
Water Effects: High Quality
Bloom: 1.000 (turned on)
Depth of Field Enabled: Yes
Desaturation Effects (Sepia) Enabled: Yes
Shader Detail: Unknown (3)
World Texture Level: Very High
Character Texture Level: Very High
World Detail Level (Vis_Scale): 1.000
Entity Detail Level: 1.000
Shadows Enabled: Yes
Gamma Correction: 1.000
Geometry Buffers (VBOs) Enabled: Yes
Suppression of Extra Player FX Enabled: No
Suppression of FX When Camera Close Enabled: No
Close Suppression Range: 3.000
Show Advertisements: Yes
Audio Mode: Performance
3D Audio: No
FX Sound Volume: 1.000
Music Sound Volume: 0.600
Show Advanced Graphics Options: No
Overall Graphics Quality: 0.600
Reverse Mouse Buttons: No
Save Login Username: Yes
Transfer Rate: 21027 bytes/second
Current Game Version: 18.20090422.5T
Installation Directory: C:\City of Heroes
Mod files in the Data directory
No modifications found
Any help you can give would be appreciated.
Charlie