Quick counterpoints.
Voids have been nerfed to near-joke status as it is (losing the damage type that made them a threat to Khelds,) They no longer do Nictus damage, exclusive to Kheldians. Only negative energy.
Incarnates were, at one point, "the next EAT (they) were working on,) though Nictus were the VEAT at that time. This was, as that should indicate, pre-SOA. The problem they had at that time was one of "We don't know how to fit them into the storyline." Doing the Midnighter and Cimerora storylines tend to indicate, with the "lost origin," that they've started working that little snag out. (Edit: EAT status as of 12/08, going over all that had been mentioned.
And anyone who complains about Khelds for Cysts had best never step foot into Cimerora.
Pretty much what Bill said.
Voids/Quantums aren't a serious problem for an even average Kheldian player anymore. They've already been nerfed, hard. Though badges for them wouldn't be unwelcome. And ditto to the Cysts comment, they aren't that bad, though that doesn't stop people freaking out about them or mishandling them.
Also, it's not clear from the OP whether you know this or not, but there are two Kheldian ATs: Peacebringer and Warshade, so "counterbalancing the two VEATs" doesn't make sense really since there are already two HEATs.
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Well, I should've said 'both Kheldians' but it looked weird when I wrote it that way.
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Doing the Midnighter and Cimerora storylines tend to indicate, with the "lost origin," that they've started working that little snag out.
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In my opinion, the mention of them in the arcs was to keep the ball in play. I don't think they really know what do to with it yet.
People have expectations on Incarnates because of the lore that I don't think the game will be able to facilitate.
If they were going to tackle them, the expansion would have been the time if they hadn't gone in the direction they have. I'm all but certain they aren't going to be in Going Rogue, because if they were they'd be hyping the heck out of that angle and there was ZERO mention of them in the survey for the expansion.
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Doing the Midnighter and Cimerora storylines tend to indicate, with the "lost origin," that they've started working that little snag out.
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In my opinion, the mention of them in the arcs was to keep the ball in play. I don't think they really know what do to with it yet.
People have expectations on Incarnates because of the lore that I don't think the game will be able to facilitate.
If they were going to tackle them, the expansion would have been the time if they hadn't gone in the direction they have. I'm all but certain they aren't going to be in Going Rogue, because if they were they'd be hyping the heck out of that angle and there was ZERO mention of them in the survey for the expansion.
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Sorry, J_B, I think you're a little early for expecting hype on the expansion - or even much detail - when I15 is the next "big thing" on their plate - especially with the label "Anniversary." They like dribbling out tidbits a little at a time. They've given us the name, and the biggest feature available to all - the "morality" or "side switching," of which we still don't know the mechanics.
(Yes, I know, the content we've been told about with I15 isn't "that much," but we haven't been told more yet, either.)
Besides, there's now at least a third (Tyrant) in play with the expansion. A fourth if you count Sstheno, though IIRC she's put down. And, if Reichsman comes back... a fifth.
To be clear, no, I'm not expecting them there, either - yet, the last time we heard about a boxed set (when Cryptic was still running the show,) there was talk about *that* being when another EAT would be introduced. This does not, of course, mean that sitll holds true with *this* expansion - the old "box" got spread out over a few issues, after all, and plans for that do not equate to plans for this one.
All I'm suggesting to you, J_B, is to take a "wait and see" stance, since we just don't have the info yet and I think it's a bit too early to really bring out its plus and minuses. I'm hoping you'll be... pleasantly disappointed, I suppose. 
Start actually watching for info two months post-I15. *puts $5 down.*
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Doing the Midnighter and Cimerora storylines tend to indicate, with the "lost origin," that they've started working that little snag out.
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In my opinion, the mention of them in the arcs was to keep the ball in play. I don't think they really know what do to with it yet.
People have expectations on Incarnates because of the lore that I don't think the game will be able to facilitate.
If they were going to tackle them, the expansion would have been the time if they hadn't gone in the direction they have. I'm all but certain they aren't going to be in Going Rogue, because if they were they'd be hyping the heck out of that angle and there was ZERO mention of them in the survey for the expansion.
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[/ QUOTE ]honestly we dont exactly know when they planned on releasing the info on going rogue. thus far it seems that the emails that set it all off on monday were not intended and they have kind of had a scramble. E3 is about 2 weeks off, and I.m guessing that there is a better than average chance that rogue was supposed to be announced then, and when the full INTENDED release announcement of going rogue hits, i expect we may see a lot more surprises than just 2 powersets, a bunch of new zones, and the alignment bar. Posi's own comment own he topic was that the marketing guys are the ones who control the flow of info, and that there is more info, so they couldnt say if they wanted to. so lets remember that they are a business and give them time to get this info out as such.
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Besides, there's now at least a third (Tyrant) in play with the expansion. A fourth if you count Sstheno, though IIRC she's put down. And, if Reichsman comes back... a fifth.
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There's Statesman, Recluse, Sstheno, some hints about Trapdoor getting his power from the Well and Imperious.
We don't have any clue if Tyrant or Reichsman got their powers the same way. Keep in mind Tyrant is currently in game as Energy Melee and Statesman is SS. That suggests there's something different about them besides personalities.
And Tyrant has been depited in the comics as weaker than Statesman, even getting punked and throw off balance by Statesman's lightning powers.
But yeah, it's too early to be saying anything is a rock solid "no" or "go".
I like the cannon and lore in the game. It's the one area I find no special fault. Hero 1(the dev) is awesome.
But it's also the area I don't have to pay for the expansion to experience. Within a couple weeks after releasing it'll be up on Paragonwiki for me to read, even if I pass on buying it.
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And, if Reichsman comes back... a fifth.
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I see what you did there. 
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And, if Reichsman comes back... a fifth.
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I see what you did there.
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*facepalm* LOL
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Voids have been nerfed to near-joke status as it is (losing the damage type that made them a threat to Khelds,) They no longer do Nictus damage, exclusive to Kheldians. Only negative energy.
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But a LOT of it, and they never lost their resistances or stuns and knockback. A Void lieutenant (Seeker?) is worse than a non-void boss, and he tends to spawn WITH said boss and IN ADDITION TO the rest of the people in the spawn.
No particular relation to the point of the thread, but I just wanted to point out that they are still a very serious threat, even if they're not the death sentence they were before.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Some things we know, or can infer about Incarnates from looking at Statesman and Recluse from the CoH novels and comics:
-Incarnates start off weaker and then become more powerful over time.
That's a given, especially in this game. Marcus Cole gets knocked out fairly easily after getting his powers. He doesn't fly early on. The novel isn't clear at what point he starts flying, but it's easily several months to a year after gaining his powers. 1931-ish. And it's depicted more as gliding at first, as opposed to the super sonic fight he demonstrates by the mid 1980's. He becomes much stronger over time too. We see him almost struggling to heft a tank circa WWII in the CoH cinematic, but in the Freedom Phalanx novel he lifts and flys almost a quarter of a skyscraper.
-Incarnates consciously and unconsciously control how their powers manifest and can shape their own transformations.
When Relcuse first reveals his spider legs he makes a big deal about boasting to Statesman about how he was able to willfully control his transformation and the spider theme came from him associating himself with the Arachnos organization which he was tring to take over.
In the frist novel, Marcus Cole is depicted as being 6' tall with an athletic build.
By the mid 80's he's bulked up to a super human physique and has put on a few inches in height. Positron even commented in the novel that seeing him out of costume, it would be hard not to recognize the build, even if his identity wasn't already public at that point. This, like Recluse, could be an expression of Marcus controlling his change over time.
-They can travel to other dimensions under their own power.
Statesman does this in the first comic arc. He drags a bunch of Phalanxers with him to some kind of Olympian dimension to confront Prometheus. In the Freedom Phalanx novel, Statesman mentions having visited Hades and the Greek underworld and meeting Sisyphus in person.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head, at this minute.
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the unnamed woman who gave birth to the Snakes
[/ QUOTE ]Unnamed? Woman? Try Stheno the Gorgon.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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the unnamed woman who gave birth to the Snakes
[/ QUOTE ]Unnamed? Woman? Try Stheno the Gorgon.
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It was an unnamed woman who was incarnated with the power of Stheno the Gorgon in a similar way Marcus Cole was incarnated with the power of Zeus.
So yes, referring to the "unnamed woman" as an Incarnate is as correct as referring to Marcus Cole or Statesman as one.
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- - - Incarnates - - -
Incarnate as an origin type aren't available to players for whatever reason the devs decided. Statesman and Recluse are the most well known, but there's also Imperious, Trapdoor (from a villain experiment gone wrong), the unnamed woman who gave birth to the Snakes, and Ms. Liberty / Miss Liberty from the Girdle of Hera. Others may be out there, but that's all I can think of at the moment off the top of my head.
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While we're at it, why don't we add:
A "Crey Experiment" EAT to cover people that like Synapse.
A "Psionic Mutant" EAT to cover Sister Psyche fans.
A "Spoiled Trust-fund Baby" EAT to cover Manticore.
And so on and so forth... 
Infatum on Virtueverse
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While we're at it, why don't we add:
A "Crey Experiment" EAT to cover people that like Synapse.
A "Psionic Mutant" EAT to cover Sister Psyche fans.
A "Spoiled Trust-fund Baby" EAT to cover Manticore.
And so on and so forth...
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Pardon the snark, but I had to stop myself from replying to this until after I had some sleep and cleared my head. I've slept now and it still looks like you're being rude, regardless of the smiley. If it was meant to be dry wit, I'll apologize. But to me, it looked mighty rude.
Is it too late to ask how you felt about the other two ideas, or was this just a one-shot over what you didn't like?
Sorry, I shouldn't be allowed to post on Mondays.
The badge idea is solid, and honestly should have been its own post because it's totally unrelated to incarnates. One of my biggest gripes playing my Peacebringer was that the biggest thing I brought to the team was larger spawns, giving those spawns a badge would essentially be a consolation prize, but a good one at that.
Infatum on Virtueverse
- - - Incarnates - - -
Incarnate as an origin type aren't available to players for whatever reason the devs decided. Statesman and Recluse are the most well known, but there's also Imperious, Trapdoor (from a villain experiment gone wrong), the unnamed woman who gave birth to the Snakes, and Ms. Liberty / Miss Liberty from the Girdle of Hera. Others may be out there, but that's all I can think of at the moment off the top of my head.
I can see how the 'powers that be' want Incarnate to be exclusive to the major heroes and villains, but that aside it would be nice if that was made available to players in some form or another. Maybe both sides, but since the VEATS are relatively less restricted than Kheldians, there could be a more in depth Roleplay reason for them not to be given to the Villain side, as Recluse wouldn't want the competition or whatnot.
Incarnates as a HEAT could counterbalance the two VEATS on the villain side. The reason I say that is because Kheldians have Voids and such giving them a hard time. (more on this below)
- - - Kheldians - - -
There are arguments over Kheldians that're as long as they have been available. Voids and Quantums being the main ones for players of Kheldians, and Shadow Cysts for players that don't play them. Meaning: They don't like Kheldians in their group because they could spawn a big bad Shadow Cyst and screw up their plans of Über Domination. *shrugs*
- - - Badges - - -
I've looked, but haven't found Defeat badges for Quantums, Voids, or Shadow Cysts. If they're around in some other form, then disregard my suggestion of adding them. If they were introduced, then there might be more folks willing to have them in their group, so that they can go after those badges.
If they get all three, then they can get an Accolade that would either give a resistance to those energy rifles, etc, and/or give a better attack/damage against those sorts of mobs, or all three.
Name them what you want, but giving a perk for defeating those mobs would most likely get those who simply don't like Kheldians turned around. Well, hopefully.
Then there's the other possibility of nerfing the Voids, Quantums, and Cysts, so that they don't seem to auto hit the Kheldians. *shrugs*
At any rate, I had to get this out of my head while it was still in there.
Anyone want to toss this about, or are flames in my future? *dons asbestos suit*