I'd like a Super Cycle

I mentioned this in another thread somewhere, but I suppose it's best to put it here in it's own thread so it actually gets seen.

I'd like a travel power that lets me zoom around Paragon City on my own Super-Cycle. At base it'd pretty much the same as Super-Speed really (although probably with the speed cap of Flight). But just for the ability to be able to tool around Paragon on my Super-Cycle (for those non-superhuman heroes and all) would be pretty cool.

Bonus points for being able to customize the cycle to some degree while I'm wishing.

*cries*
-Rachel-

Aww don't cry Rachel.

It's just... You're so -new- to the forums. And you've made a suggestion that's been made many times and even shot down by one of the Devs, once. So in the next hour or so at least 3 people are going to tell you to use the Search button and explain why your suggestion can't be put in the game.

And I don't want you to feel bad -especially- 'cause you're new here, and new people on the forum is awesome to have.

-Rachel-

Well, I've gotten to my 3 month vet badge, been reading the forums that long, but don't really post generally. But I appreciate your concern.
And, while I'm no programmer, I've worked in the pen & paper RPG circuit for a long time. Lord knows I can handle hearing someone shoot down an idea. Heck, I learned a long time ago not to believe something was unobtainabel just because people (even people 'in charge' said "no".

there is a reason the people that are in charge have said no. use the search. it is the word between main index and active topics. it wont bite i promise. if you have been actually reading the forums you would have seen these ideas and would have seen why they wont work.

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It's just... You're so -new- to the forums. And you've made a suggestion that's been made many times and even shot down by one of the Devs, once. So in the next hour or so at least 3 people are going to tell you to use the Search button and explain why your suggestion can't be put in the game.

And I don't want you to feel bad -especially- 'cause you're new here, and new people on the forum is awesome to have.

-Rachel-

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See, this is why (with the exception of MA stuff and one hair option) I've been struggling my hardest not to make a single suggestion. Funny to think that vehicles is one of the things on the list.

Sure, I could use the Search (ignoring the fact that forum search is often painfully inaccurate). But that brings up the question that anyone who suggests one use the search button before daring to post must have considered... would I then search for motorcycle, cycle, super cycle, hero cycle, bat cycle, vehicle (heaven forbid, THAT opens up a whole new vista to the suggestion), bike... possibly multiple options would bring up some of the relevant threads, but of course if I just happen to Search one that wasn't one of the lucky ones then of course I'd likely still be told to use the Search. Seen it happen more than enough times, I'd rather just make a new thread which adds to the list of threads that people have asked for something in.

And yeah, I'm sure there have been reasons why they won't work. Hasn't stopped people from pie-in-the-sky'ing over power customization, weapon customization (wait, we got that one), wings (wait, got that one too), and.. any number of things.

That being said, I've never seen it mentioned in the threads I've read, but hey I'll look anyway. 'Course, I'd still like a Super Cycle.

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weapon customization (wait, we got that one)

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BABs actually said that weapon customization wasn't all that hard. It was just a matter of removing the form of the sword from the power and replacing it with a variable costume slot option. It wasn't something that was made virtually impossible without hefty modification of the game engine.

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wings (wait, got that one too)

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Wings were simply an extension of caps and follow pretty much the same mechanics in game. They have a rest state, a jump state, a flight state, etc, and before you say that we got them in exactly the form people were asking, people were asking for wings to be a variant form of Flight. The devs gave a costume piece where power customization was asked for (which made more sense to me anyways).

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That being said, I've never seen it mentioned in the threads I've read, but hey I'll look anyway. 'Course, I'd still like a Super Cycle.

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I'm really curious how long you've been reading the forums then. At least once a month someone comes up with or asks for vehicles to be implemented without looking up any of the existing threads. I've seen 3 different vehicle threads at once on the same page of the Suggestions Forums.

Also, something to think about, what does adding vehicles do for the game that isn't already done with the transport powers in game? If they're that distinct, they're either going to be so bad that the only reason to take them is because you insist on having a vehicle (which is a waste of dev time because that's very little player benefit for a lot of work) or they're going to be better (which is a waste of previous dev time because people are only going to use the old trans powers if they refuse to use vehicles).

Honestly, if you'd done the search (and yes, you should have searched for "vehicles" because "Super-Cycle" is a vehicle no matter how you twist it), you would have seen this argument and the many others (most of them concerned with the horrible work:benefit ratio associated with designing them). There's a reason that "Search for similar threads and post there rather than creating a new post" is in the forum rules.

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weapon customization (wait, we got that one)

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BABs actually said that weapon customization wasn't all that hard. It was just a matter of removing the form of the sword from the power and replacing it with a variable costume slot option. It wasn't something that was made virtually impossible without hefty modification of the game engine.

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But how long did it take to get it? How often was it mentioned before we got it? That was what I was indicating (or trying to).

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wings (wait, got that one too)

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Wings were simply an extension of caps and follow pretty much the same mechanics in game. They have a rest state, a jump state, a flight state, etc, and before you say that we got them in exactly the form people were asking, people were asking for wings to be a variant form of Flight. The devs gave a costume piece where power customization was asked for (which made more sense to me anyways).

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Granted, I didn’t give any suggestions as to How I’d think would be the best way to implement it. I never really though of it as a powerset or anything, more as a different animation visual for a pre-existing travel power. Yes, it’s a lot of work involving new skeletons for the motorcycles and adding a docking point on the [censored] and such… but “A lot of work we can’t prioritize right now over what we’ve got going on” and “No, just.. no” are Hugely different animals.

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That being said, I've never seen it mentioned in the threads I've read, but hey I'll look anyway. 'Course, I'd still like a Super Cycle.

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I'm really curious how long you've been reading the forums then. At least once a month someone comes up with or asks for vehicles to be implemented without looking up any of the existing threads. I've seen 3 different vehicle threads at once on the same page of the Suggestions Forums.

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I’ve been reading for… about 3 months now. But not every forum, and nowhere near every thread. Mostly just scanning idly when the servers are down for maintenance or waiting for a friend to show up online to play.

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Also, something to think about, what does adding vehicles do for the game that isn't already done with the transport powers in game? If they're that distinct, they're either going to be so bad that the only reason to take them is because you insist on having a vehicle (which is a waste of dev time because that's very little player benefit for a lot of work) or they're going to be better (which is a waste of previous dev time because people are only going to use the old trans powers if they refuse to use vehicles).

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I’ll be completely honest; motorcycles as a travel power (slash-travel-power-alternate-animation) as I see it is nothing at all other than a cool alternate visual. Doesn’t add a single thing to the game other than being cool. Yeah, it’s a buttload of work. Hell pretty much anything they add to the game is going to be a buttload of work. I’m guessing butt-capes were a load of work, and don’t add a single thing to the game other than being cool. I like neat cool-looking things. I’m not saying it should be a top-priority for the Dev team or anything mind you.
And one thing you must admit… I Didn’t start the OP by saying “I have a great new idea!” lol

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Honestly, if you'd done the search (and yes, you should have searched for "vehicles" because "Super-Cycle" is a vehicle no matter how you twist it), you would have seen this argument and the many others (most of them concerned with the horrible work:benefit ratio associated with designing them). There's a reason that "Search for similar threads and post there rather than creating a new post" is in the forum rules.

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Possibly, but given that even on an off-the-cuff notion I can see that implementing just motorcycles and implementing cars, jets, tanks, vans, hoverboards, motorcycles, and any other kind of vehicle that could be proposed are vastly different suggestions *in their scope and variation*. When I pipe up with “I was a super-cycle” I don’t mean I want a Super-Mobile or a Super-Jet… just a Super-Cycle. Searching for “vehicle” runs the risk of coming up with a broad spectrum of possibly-related and possibly-unrelated threads all over the place. Did I find 1 thread when I used the Search too? Yes, I found exactly 1 thread hen I used the search tool.
On the other hand, I wouldn’t have likely posted in that thread had I seen it before I posted mine. The tearing-down of the person suggesting the idea was far too hostile and gang-gank’ing. TO enter into that thread would be to say “I feel like entering a flame war this morning”, not “I’d like to suggest something I think would be cool”. That thread does Not invite people to start posting around here.

--Note: I've added double-spaces left and right here when typing this response. They don't show up in the preview, so I'll just have to click Submit and see what I get here.

Post deleted by Moderator 08

Or, y'know, some of us give information to educate them how to do so as well.

For the OP, this does two things - one, tell you what you could search on (and how to do so effectively!) and two, let you see some of the arguments we've had over the years. It does alter as good/alternate ideas/discussion come up (like the last section.) Use the info, consider and possibly refine your suggestion.

Disclaimer

Yes. This is a cut and paste reply that I keep handy, as well as a quick bit of instruction on how to search. Neither are meant to cause fights or to be insulting. The search instructions are in, not just because forum rules say flat out to search, but to help you and anyone else reading this use the search tool effectively.

The body of the cut and paste reply is the way it is because we've seen these arguments numerous times before. They're a summary of the salient points that come up each time. They are not here to insult you, make you feel stupid or otherwise "bring you down a peg." Instead, they are meant as instruction and information. Please read through the points and the explanation behind them to see the issues that are commonly brought up in response. They may not always match your suggestion 100% - in fact, you may have explained around one or two of them - but they're there for consideration and refinement of your idea.

Yes, I do look forward to the time, with some of these suggestions, that someone not only addresses all the points, but does so exceptionally well. It'll probably be added to the end of the cut/paste reply, with credit. For now, though, read and consider the points. They really are just there to help you, and move discussion along to help ideas evolve.

If you're going to see this and say an "evil forum vet is just shooting down your idea," or "You think you're the last word because of your post count," you're wrong. Heck, if you say the second, you've just worried more about my post count than I have in the last four plus years. Tongue-in-cheek comments in here are meant as humor, not put downs.

Searching Effectively

1. Click on "Search" up at the top of the forum.
2. On the left, under "Forum(s) to search," select "Suggestions and ideas."
3. On the right, Keyword Search Terms. This is probably where your problem was if you did search. Try the following, exactly as typed:

+vehicle -"re: "

This will search for anything with the string "vehicle" in the title.The -re: portion of it removes replies, so you'll see the root of every thread that comes up, letting you see just how many threads there are on this. (The last helps for other subjects, as well.)

Be sure to put the space between the colon and last quote.

4. Click the "In subject" radio button. This is a search, not a cute blonde in a bikini. Here, you want to ignore the body.

5. Leave Username Search blank.

6. Date range, Newer Than, change the 1 to a 3, and the time to Months.

7. Result format doesn't matter. Click on "Submit."

The subject at hand: Vehicles.
Vehicles as travel powers. This gets brought up a lot.

Short answer, don't expect it.

Long answer:
There are a lot of problems with the idea.

1. Movement.

Forward and back,even turning - ok. But you can do things that a vehicle can't - such as strafe (direct side to side or angular movement.) It doesn't work with a vehicle. There are also issues such as drift and "realistic" handling. We can go side to side, as mentioned, and make immediate right angle turns. Cars... not so much.

2. Movement, part 2.

Go stand in the road. No, not you personally. Take your character out and stand in the road, if you're heroside. Or even in the path of civilians. What happens? You get pushed. While not as big an issue with a motorcycle, perhaps, a car would have issues. What happens if two cars meet head on - yours and an NPC, or yours and another player's? Do you just pass through each other? Would you be satisfied with that very odd result? Or would you get stuck? How about those NPCs, can they walk and push your car, or are they walking through it? Neither answer is very satisfying, and intelligent, dynamic pathing is too computationally expensive.

3. Terrain.

Not every place has roads, or even makes sense for "off roading." Go look at Founder's Falls. Go look at Crey's Folley. Or Eden. Try to get to the north islands in Talos. What, do you have a kubelwagen? Look at the Pit in Sharkshead. Try to use your travel power (car) to get up to some of the doorways in high caves. Cars and motorcycles would be more like Superspeed - horizontal movement, period. And look - I'll be blunt - flat out *stupid* tied with, say, Combat Jumping or Superjump.

4. Combat.

You get ambushed on the way. How do you fight? Just have your powers blast out of the rolled up windows? How do you buff or debuff? EVERY power would need a new animation. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Then you want people with motorcycles instead of cars. Redo ALL the animations AGAIN. And they still wouldn't make sense - how do you use Footstomp in a car? Or Stalagmites?

5. Customizing.

Yeah, it would come up. Not everyone would want a sports car, or a mid-70s Buick boat, or an exotic, or a minivan, or whatever else.

6. Making "sense."

This was touched on in terrain - how do you get across water? How about the Shadow Shard? And if you want downright ridiculous looking, go do the heroside 25-34 Respec. Look at the Sky Skiffs inside of rooms or the reactor room. It makes no sense and looks *ridiculous.* Something that, yes, the devs try to avoid.

That's just a quick overview of why vehicles as generally envisioned aren't a spectacular idea for a travel power.

Further discussion

This I think merits a bit of extra commentary, honestly.

"Vehicles" covers a lot of different ground for different people. Some only consider cars/jets/motorcycles vehicles. Others add jetpacks, wings and the like. Much of the above considers cars and similar sized vehicles, with nods to motorcycle type vehicles.

Jetpacks and such, I don't see happening as travel powers. As costume options for Flight? Or as invented pieces that interact with Fly, similar to wings? Absolutely - but they don't need to be a separate travel power for that. I'm all for more jetpack and wing (or combination) designs. Besides, there are so many "temp" jetpacks, I don't see introducing yet another one as really being feasable - just my opinion.

But vehicles - cars, specifically - as a travel power, have issues.

One way to have them "somewhat" work.

For all that, I know some people *would* still like to pull up in front of a mission. So how do we do it?

A temporary power, based on the same tech from the Mac/Valkyrie pack Mission Teleporter. The temporary power would:

(a) be an invention - dropping from enemies. (A reward, because you saved... well, we'll get to that,)

(b) be a single use each time - you can only hold one at a time, not one of each, one total.

(c) use rarely used salvage, because... it's rarely used, and cheap. No Luck Charms here.

(d) come in multiple varieties.

How does this get around the various issues?

<ul type="square">[*]Terrain - It doesn't pass terrain. It just arrives.[*]It follows the same 'rules' as the mission teleporter - it's not indoors, doesn't go to contacts, etc. Just mission doors. [*]Customizing - It's not "your" vehicle. It's a temp power. You've called a cab, limo, or other transport.[*]Power animation - since you're skipping the space in between, no powers can be used 'til you arrive anyway. [/list]
The varieties?
<ul type="square">[*] Limo: Stereotypical slightly stretched black limo.[*] Checker cab: The classic yellow cab. [*] Alien "drop pod" thing. Just for giggles. [*] Burrower - Think mole machine, but not quite. [/list]Now, part of the issue with these are still animating your character getting in or out. How do we deal with these?

In: Who cares. You teleport away. We copy the Mission Teleporter power. Not as "cool," but less intensive to work on. And you can use it to leave from inside the mission, SG base, Pocket D or wherever. It's an MMORPg. RP that you called a cab.

Exiting: You don't get animated.
- Limo: Pulls up. NPC driver gets out, opens door, flashes (or just bright light) from inside (think papparazi or some such.) You appear.
- Cab: It's an old cab. It pulls up in a cloud of exhaust when it stops. When the exhaust cloud clears, you're there.
- Alien drop pod - *Plop* - Steam - It dissolves, you're there.
- Burrower - Pops "out of the ground," releases steam, you're there and it's back underground.

(Refinement of temp power idea from discussion with DragunBlud, among others.)

See my Guides and Tutorials

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Searching Effectively

1. Click on "Search" up at the top of the forum.
2. On the left, under "Forum(s) to search," select "Suggestions and ideas."
3. On the right, Keyword Search Terms. This is probably where your problem was if you did search. Try the following, exactly as typed:

+vehicle -"re: "

This will search for anything with the string "vehicle" in the title.The -re: portion of it removes replies, so you'll see the root of every thread that comes up, letting you see just how many threads there are on this. (The last helps for other subjects, as well.)

Be sure to put the space between the colon and last quote.

4. Click the "In subject" radio button. This is a search, not a cute blonde in a bikini. Here, you want to ignore the body.

5. Leave Username Search blank.

6. Date range, Newer Than, change the 1 to a 3, and the time to Months.

7. Result format doesn't matter. Click on "Submit."


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Just out of curiosity, I did this, added the additional search terms "car", "cycle", "jet" and looked for all posts within a year. Found nothing. Certainly not enough for anyone to post to the thread and not be accused of necro-posting.

Posters: Please ignore the advice to search first. Just check the most recent 200 or so topics. Search on this terrible forum software is too funky and the anti-suggestion forces will just tell you you're beating a dead horse anyway.

Anti-S&amp;I cabal (you know who you are) - Is it so hard to just explain why you think it is or isn't a good idea. I'm not saying you have to agree with everything posted here, I know I don't. But take the time to make an argument.

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Searching Effectively

1. Click on "Search" up at the top of the forum.
2. On the left, under "Forum(s) to search," select "Suggestions and ideas."
3. On the right, Keyword Search Terms. This is probably where your problem was if you did search. Try the following, exactly as typed:

+vehicle -"re: "

This will search for anything with the string "vehicle" in the title.The -re: portion of it removes replies, so you'll see the root of every thread that comes up, letting you see just how many threads there are on this. (The last helps for other subjects, as well.)

Be sure to put the space between the colon and last quote.

4. Click the "In subject" radio button. This is a search, not a cute blonde in a bikini. Here, you want to ignore the body.

5. Leave Username Search blank.

6. Date range, Newer Than, change the 1 to a 3, and the time to Months.

7. Result format doesn't matter. Click on "Submit."


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Just out of curiosity, I did this, added the additional search terms "car", "cycle", "jet" and looked for all posts within a year. Found nothing. Certainly not enough for anyone to post to the thread and not be accused of necro-posting.

Posters: Please ignore the advice to search first. Just check the most recent 200 or so topics. Search on this terrible forum software is too funky and the anti-suggestion forces will just tell you you're beating a dead horse anyway.

Anti-S&amp;I cabal (you know who you are) - Is it so hard to just explain why you think it is or isn't a good idea. I'm not saying you have to agree with everything posted here, I know I don't. But take the time to make an argument.

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So, you didn't follow the instructions, and got a different result. Wow. Imagine that.

And posters: If you look in the forum rules, you'll see a specific directive to search first. Please disregard EG in this instance.

EG: You searched on Cycle, one year? Funny, I just did.

Search terms:
Suggestions and Ideas.
1 year
+Cycle -"re: "

Relevant results, other than this thread:

Burn Rubber
Vehicles as travel powers
Powers based upon Origin
Travel power 'secondary toggle'
Misc power pool
A small suggestion


And that's the first of two pages. So... BS, EG.

See my Guides and Tutorials

QR

Did the exact search Bill described just now, even copy-pasted his search terms. Got only one thread. This one. BS indeed. Ignore these folks, but be thankful, they're bumping your thread.

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And posters: If you look in the forum rules, you'll see a specific directive to search first. Please disregard EG in this instance.


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Umm... no you won't. You'll find a carefully worded request which says:

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Cross posting is not permitted. As a courtesy to others before beginning a new thread, please look to see if an [u]active[u] thread on that topic has already been established using the Search feature. If so, place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forum needlessly and many good ideas may be lost. Use the Search link to keep discussions about one topic to one thread only.


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You remember when I said check the first 200 or so threads. It's because unlike the anti-suggestions folks, I actually READ the rules. The devs ASKED that you search first. There were no demands. But they did very clearly limit their comments to searching for ACTIVE threads. Because you know, posting to an older thread violates this rule:

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No thread necromancy. Necro-posting is responding to an old discussion thread and is a form of thread ‘bumping’. [u]If you wish to discuss an considerably older topic, create a new post and link to the older discussion.[u]

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So despite what the forum hall monitors think, it is actually AGAINST the rules to search and dredge up an old post. In fact, the STATED procedure is to start a new thread as stated above.

The rules can be found here.

Ignore them folks, but be happy they're here to bump your post!

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QR

Did the exact search Bill described just now, even copy-pasted his search terms. Got only one thread. This one. BS indeed. Ignore these folks, but be thankful, they're bumping your thread.

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Hmmm... and I got 6 different threads...

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Hmmm... and I got 6 different threads...

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If I search "in subject and body" I get 200. Nevertheless, I don't get anything recent other than this one.

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QR

Did the exact search Bill described just now, even copy-pasted his search terms. Got only one thread. This one. BS indeed. Ignore these folks, but be thankful, they're bumping your thread.

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Edit: Point. That search needs to mention body, because of the way posts about vehicles are mentioned, IF searching on "Cycle." Typically, it does come up under "Vehicle" however. That said, do the vehicle search.

Screen capture of my search screen with those exact terms.

Results screen, with EXACTLY the results I said.

That said, the EXACT search mentioned in that post (of +vehicle) STILL shows up with three unique threads.

See my Guides and Tutorials

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QR

Did the exact search Bill described just now, even copy-pasted his search terms. Got only one thread. This one. BS indeed. Ignore these folks, but be thankful, they're bumping your thread.

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I'm not naiive enough to expect an apology from you, Geko, even with the following proof.

Screen capture of my search screen with those exact terms.

Results screen, with EXACTLY the results I said.

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Oh please Bill, EG could fake up something like that using his paint program.

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QR

Did the exact search Bill described just now, even copy-pasted his search terms. Got only one thread. This one. BS indeed. Ignore these folks, but be thankful, they're bumping your thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

Edit: Point. That search needs to mention body, because of the way posts about vehicles are mentioned. That said, do the vehicle search.

Screen capture of my search screen with those exact terms.

Results screen, with EXACTLY the results I said.

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You said above:

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4. Click the "In subject" radio button. This is a search, not a cute blonde in a bikini. Here, you want to ignore the body.

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Now you didn't click that button when you searched. I did. As you instructed. And came up with one post. Your search terms don't have the button clicked. But then, I don't expect an apology from you either.

EDIT: I see you caught your error before I had a chance to respond. Dissembling doesn't work here. You told the OP to do something that would have resulted in nothing (because he wouldn't have posted yet.)

You were wrong. Just man up.

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Ignore them folks, but be happy they're here to bump your post!

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Are you kidding? Using +Cycle "-re:"

Just let's look in the last month:

here on 13 May

here on 25 Apr

here on 21 Apr

Ignore people who don't say search first. Find out if it has been posted and learned what others have said so to make your suggestion better.

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QR

Did the exact search Bill described just now, even copy-pasted his search terms. Got only one thread. This one. BS indeed. Ignore these folks, but be thankful, they're bumping your thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

Edit: Point. That search needs to mention body, because of the way posts about vehicles are mentioned. That said, do the vehicle search.

Screen capture of my search screen with those exact terms.

Results screen, with EXACTLY the results I said.

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You said above:

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4. Click the "In subject" radio button. This is a search, not a cute blonde in a bikini. Here, you want to ignore the body.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now you didn't click that button when you searched. I did. As you instructed. And came up with one post. Your search terms don't have the button clicked. But then, I don't expect an apology from you either.

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You'll note the edit above, removing that comment. Which is even in your quote.

(Which I would have removed anyway, since it was unfair to say the least - I'm irritated by someone else flat out calling me a liar for doing precisely what he said he couldn't do, and snapped because of it. I rarely agree with you, but you didn't deserve to have that pointed at you. So expect or not, yes, you are getting an apology from me for that. You didn't deserve to get snapped at like that, and I'm sorry for doing so.)

However, your claim is STILL incorrect that, with "subject and body" as you posted, that this is the only post. Are you at 1 week, or 1 year? 1 week will give only this post.

Results following the exact directions, with "Vehicle."

See my Guides and Tutorials

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Ignore them folks, but be happy they're here to bump your post!

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Are you kidding? Using +Cycle "-re:"

Just let's look in the last month:

here on 13 May

here on 25 Apr

here on 21 Apr

Ignore people who don't say search first. Find out if it has been posted and learned what others have said so to make your suggestion better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, there was no discussion in those threads. Just a whole lot of trolls telling the original posters to search or otherwise making fun of them. Quite useless threads, other than to warn people of what to expect.

Only exception I saw was that Memphis_Bill did actually take the time to respond in one of those posts to the OP. I'll give him credit for that.

Back to topic:

The reasons why Vehicles (that's what you want to search for) are not and probably will never be part of the game are many, but a few stand out.

One is animations. How do you, say, use Golden Dragonfly while riding a vehicle? Either you need some fancy new animation, which can run up to hundreds if we look at how many we have in total, or some kind of limitation and "dismounting." For a bike that could possibly work, but if a system for bikes is implemented, it would have to cover more than just simple bikes.

Movement is another. Character can turn in place, run sideways, jump and cling to ledges, all without needing to pitch. Note how even when going up a steep slope, your character remains vertical. That's OK for something with as small a footprint as a humanoid, but for a larger bike, it would need to tilt, which the engine cannot do. And that's before we consider strafing, jumping and riding through water.

Terrain is another still. Not only is it not feasible to take bikes over all the places we can go on foot (like, say, up fire escapes) but a bike is larger than a humanoid and should theoretically not fit in many places. Indoor environments tend to be a good example, especially caves and Oranbega, but there are simpler examples, too, like the many tight-quarters, trash-filled back alleys where even people on foot tend to get stuck a lot.

There's also mounting and dismounting. While a WoW-borrowed "pops into existence under your butt" mechanic wouldn't be too far-fetched, it would be horribly ugly. The developers have a history of not green-lighting things unless they have at least some level of refinement in them, wings and custom weapons being good examples of that.

It's a cool idea and heavens knows it's been suggested probably over a hundred times, but it's been shot down by the developers themselves in the past.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

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However, your claim is STILL incorrect that, with "subject and body" as you posted, that this is the only post. Are you at 1 week, or 1 year? 1 week will give only this post.


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I never said that. I said:

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Hmmm... and I got 6 different threads...

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If I search "in subject and body" I get 200. Nevertheless, I don't get anything recent other than this one.

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I've always been fair. What I was pointing out was that search is flighty at best. Using your instructions, you come up with nothing. Using "in subject and body" requires you to spend some time sifting through older posts, which you can't necro anyway and not run afoul of the rules.

And the funny thing is I bet almost no one would object if BAB were to post that he's found a way to do vehicles and they're coming soon. Wait... someone would object, because people object to everything on these boards!