how good are our arcs now vs- in 6 months?

Ironik · 05-03-2009 09:01 AM

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[I prefer Robert Louis Stevenson and Arthur Conan Doyle myself.]

[Edit: Forgot Jules Verne.]

Excellent examples. All authors that are admired and left unread by the general public. It's great to name names. But they are not books that the modern public reads and enjoys. There are certainly a minority that do enjoy them.

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You do realize that books aren't the only story-telling method now days? Ever heard of movies? Including those made for T.V.?

Sci-Fi channel did a version of 20,000 Leagues under the Sea. A Christam Carol is played every Holiday Season. PBS has a Mystery Series that includes Sherlock Holmes. They run these things because people are still interested in the stories.

The term "Classic" refers to stories that somehow transcend the time and place they were written. They touch on some fundamental aspect of human nature that doesn't change, which makes the main theme of the story pertinent even in modern times.

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So you are agreeing with me.

People don't read Jules Verne. The idea is kept but redone in a different form with new technology, new dialog, and probably even a revamped story.

Thank you for providing a great example of what I have been saying.

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People still read quite a lot of Jules Verne. Different versions of his books often make the same bestseller's lists -- for instance, there are two printings of 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea in the Top 100 SF list on Amazon's sales chart.

Same with Jane Austen, Mark Twain, Charles Dickens, Leo Tolstoy, HG Wells, Arthur Conan Doyle, etc.

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Arcanaville · 05-04-2009 10:40 AM

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Excellent examples. All authors that are admired and left unread by the general public. It's great to name names. But they are not books that the modern public reads and enjoys. There are certainly a minority that do enjoy them.

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But not because of the skill of the author, which was the original point.

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As soon as you all cancel your CoX accounts and spend your days reading Dickens, Twain, and Jules Verne - then I will believe you that a good story is timeless and all that truly matters.

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That would be dictating an unreasonable level of proof. First, the strawman: no one said "...all that truly matters." Especially in the MA which is a combination of semantic story-telling and scripted action: that would be like saying the dialog is all that truly matters in a motion picture.

Second, no one said a good story is timeless; refer to your own post: the phrase was good storytelling is timeless, and your own reply makes clear you understood that to mean "skill and style" not topic. Twain, for example, still gets ripped off to this day (in many ways, he's the inventor of American snark). I think he would have no problems getting published today, without the benefit of 21st century writing "skills."

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dugfromthearth · 05-04-2009 01:34 PM

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Excellent examples. All authors that are admired and left unread by the general public. It's great to name names. But they are not books that the modern public reads and enjoys. There are certainly a minority that do enjoy them.

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But not because of the skill of the author, which was the original point.

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odd that you say that - because I wrote the OP.

[Second, no one said a good story is timeless; refer to your own post: the phrase was good storytelling is timeless]

I am not sure how the thread turned into a debate about the quality of author skills instead of mission arcs. But since Arcanaville says it did, I will accept that - she is certainly much less biased about it than I am.

So let me start over with my OP: How good are our arcs today vs in 6 months?

Not "how good are our author skills today vs in 6 months?"

My whole question is specifically - is a good arc timeless. Or at least will it hold up for 6 months?

Arcanaville · 05-04-2009 03:09 PM

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I am not sure how the thread turned into a debate about the quality of author skills instead of mission arcs. But since Arcanaville says it did, I will accept that - she is certainly much less biased about it than I am.

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It is always interesting to me when someone decides not just to argue against someone else's words, but to invalidate their own as meaningless or irrelevant. I'm never certain how to interpret that form of forensic suicide.

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dugfromthearth · 05-04-2009 04:33 PM

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I am not sure how the thread turned into a debate about the quality of author skills instead of mission arcs. But since Arcanaville says it did, I will accept that - she is certainly much less biased about it than I am.

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It is always interesting to me when someone decides not just to argue against someone else's words, but to invalidate their own as meaningless or irrelevant. I'm never certain how to interpret that form of forensic suicide.

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I have no idea what any of your post meant.

Aliana Blue · 05-04-2009 05:51 PM

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People still read quite a lot of Jules Verne. Different versions of his books often make the same bestseller's lists -- for instance, there are two printings of 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea in the Top 100 SF list on Amazon's sales chart.

Same with Jane Austen, Mark Twain, Charles Dickens, Leo Tolstoy, HG Wells, Arthur Conan Doyle, etc.

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*Cough*

I can tell you that I re-read 20,000 leagues at least once a year. It's my favourite book, and I have a good collection in print of Jules Verne's books. I have a pretty lengthy collection of e-books from Gutenberg that I read too. And a sizeable amount of books from the 16th-17th Century authors from Spain's "Golden Century" ("Siglo de Oro"), seeing as Spanish is my native tongue.

Also, it may be worth noting that I can read those books while still being subscribed to the game. Never thought I was breaking the law by doing both o.O

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dugfromthearth · 05-04-2009 06:28 PM

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People still read quite a lot of Jules Verne. Different versions of his books often make the same bestseller's lists -- for instance, there are two printings of 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea in the Top 100 SF list on Amazon's sales chart.

Same with Jane Austen, Mark Twain, Charles Dickens, Leo Tolstoy, HG Wells, Arthur Conan Doyle, etc.

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*Cough*

I can tell you that I re-read 20,000 leagues at least once a year. It's my favourite book, and I have a good collection in print of Jules Verne's books. I have a pretty lengthy collection of e-books from Gutenberg that I read too. And a sizeable amount of books from the 16th-17th Century authors from Spain's "Golden Century" ("Siglo de Oro"), seeing as Spanish is my native tongue.

Also, it may be worth noting that I can read those books while still being subscribed to the game. Never thought I was breaking the law by doing both o.O

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I give up.

You are correct. 19th century literature is the ultimate form of entertainment. That is why everywhere you go you see people reading it.

Those passing fads television, the internet, electronic games just couldn't compete.

The 6.1 million people who watched the premiere of an animated show about penguins (Penguins of Madagascar) are nothing compared to the uncounted millions who spent that half hour curled up reading 19th century novels.

And yes - I stated "it is against the law to read 19th century literature and play CoX".

Mind Forever Burning · 05-04-2009 06:49 PM

Removed response as I realized it was pointless.

And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines

Aliana Blue · 05-04-2009 07:12 PM

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I give up.

You are correct. 19th century literature is the ultimate form of entertainment. That is why everywhere you go you see people reading it.

Those passing fads television, the internet, electronic games just couldn't compete.

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Who has to compete?

Jules Verne seems to be holding up quite well when compared to, say, Pong, if you want comparisons.

However, that's not to say that it's impossible to enjoy both. You seem adamant on introducing a false dichotomy here, where one who reads old books cannot possibly like anything else. It's complete rubbish.

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The 6.1 million people who watched the premiere of an animated show about penguins (Penguins of Madagascar) are nothing compared to the uncounted millions who spent that half hour curled up reading 19th century novels.

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False dichotomy. Again.

Unless you assume that any other form of entertainment that didn't manage to pull 6.1 million people during that exact half an hour is just dead and worthless?

The millions that read old books are not "uncounted". You can look top 100 lists on Amazon and see what old authors are still selling. You can look up the statistics page of Project Gutenberg. You can look at book catalogs and see what's hot with them. Are they the hottest thing ever? Probably not. But they still draw a sizeable audience.

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And yes - I stated "it is against the law to read 19th century literature and play CoX".

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Considering your demand that we all cancel our accounts if we want to "prove" that good stories are timeless, pretty much, yes. You apparently think there's a law where one can only enjoy or appreciate one form of entertainment.

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Red_Zero · 05-04-2009 08:42 PM

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Ok, imagine World Wide Red told in five missions, using only the maps that arc uses. (And without the giant robots, because NOOOO, they can't just limit them to outdoor maps, we can't have them at all.)

Now image the RWZ storyline told in five missions, with all those "cool new maps" it has. (Which we've all seen a zillion times unlocking the Midnight Club.)

Which is the better story?

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That depends: which one is being written in the 19th century?

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Anything written in the 19th Century for CoX would be a Prussian Prince of Automatons Plot.

james_joyce · 05-04-2009 08:52 PM

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"Because good storytelling is timeless."

that's just not true.

read any 19th century classic - they are terrible to read now.
storytelling is a skill and style which develops over time.

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I realize this has been covered already, but...

lolwut?