Arc Reviews 2: The Knockoff

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As a comparison of dev-created content to MA farms....fail.

[/ QUOTE ]The arc is terribly written, with a terrible premise and terrible execution. The only reason I run it on every character I have is because it gives a grotesquely inflated XP reward.

Same basic premise as a farm, from where I sit.

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Well then I guess we just disagree on whether the xp reward is worth all the boring running around and slogging through CoT, whose tendency to spawn ghosts is directly proportionate to how much smash/lethal damage you do.

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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper

Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World

Are you sure the factions in "Origins of Power" offer bonus XP? I have this weird feeling you were getting boosts from patrol XP without realizing it, especially if you've been in the MA with that character for a while.

There is a bug with arc bonus XP which could also explain it, though I don't know for certain whether the Origins of Power arc has this bug. (I know Croatoa blueside does for sure, and at least one of the RWZ arcs.) But that's very definitely a property of the arc completion bonus and has no effect on per-critter defeat XP.

Oh, and that technique where you don't have to return to the contact between missions? That's not an Ouroboros mechanic per se, it's present in early content from initial CoH release (and so is reflected in that content when run via Ouroboros). The only problem with it is that you earn mission bonuses on each "segment" of the mission as if you were on Heroic/Villainous, which can be a penalty if the contact wasn't very far anyway.

Finally, I agree with you regarding that arc's writing quality. Frankly, nearly all of the content released since NCSoft bought the property has been sub-par IMHO. I don't know if you've run the VEAT arcs yet, but ugh, they are embarrassingly bad.

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And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines

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Are you sure the factions in "Origins of Power" offer bonus XP? I have this weird feeling you were getting boosts from patrol XP without realizing it, especially if you've been in the MA with that character for a while.

[/ QUOTE ]I was unfortunately confusing the CoT-and-Rikti mission from Ashley with the just-CoT mission from OOP. My main bugbear was with the writing and the fact the non-arc offers such a massive story arc 'reward.' This means I keep coming back to running the arc, which is something of a facsimile of a success.

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Finally, I agree with you regarding that arc's writing quality. Frankly, nearly all of the content released since NCSoft bought the property has been sub-par IMHO. I don't know if you've run the VEAT arcs yet, but ugh, they are embarrassingly bad.

[/ QUOTE ]They're another part of what got me riled up to point the gun at the official writers. Around the time the I13 arcs were being pimped, they mentioned they were the work of a 'new guy' who had done a few arcs already, which indicated that these were probably his 'work' as well. Truly terrible writing.

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I have just uploaded a new arc, The History of Statesman (219484). Be sure to try it, it's educational.

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Still alive.

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Still alive.

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... and now I have that damn song stuck in my head.

Thanks a lot, Talen

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"A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head." Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates

MA Arcs: #12285, "Small Fears", #106553, "Trollbane", #12669, "How to Survive a Robot Uprising"

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Still alive.

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... and now I have that damn song stuck in my head.

Thanks a lot, Talen

[/ QUOTE ]Sorry.

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I'd be quite honored if you'd take a look at the first arc in my signature. I hope you think it's good enough to rate a look at the second half, as well, but since it *is* about the Rikti War, and you *did* make a small mention of your feelings about the Rikti, I won't push my luck.

In any case, thanks for your time and effort - regardless of whether "The Consequences of War" gets reviewed or not. You reviewers are very underrated and underpaid.

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The SOLUS Foundation - a Liberty and Pinnacle SG

"The Consequences of War" - Arcs # 227331 and 241496

I don't have a problem with the first 99% of the Rikti War. The thing is, I've fought a lot of Rikti, and I think everyone has, so a mission of punching shovelheads isn't going to be as fun for me as say, a mission of punching wyvern. I like diversity.

That said, with I15 here and me with some new lowbies to play, I'd like for any folk who are still interested in getting a review who have updated their arcs with the new tools to pipe up. Yeah, I know, super magnanimous of me to take a month or two off then demand you all dance to my tune, but [censored] it, my first three attempts to find things under the new system didn't turn up under the proper IDs.

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Weeell, you could always put your newbies through "Diamonds...". It's still there.

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Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522

I intend to. I wouldn't take on level 15 outcast bosses until I had level 12 and some DOs though.

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... did I have any arcs with you for re-review, Talen? Can't remember off the top of my head

Er... oh. If I did, don't run 'em yet- I've made some changes, but they're untested, and I don't want to inflict them on anyone until I'm sure they're working right

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"A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head." Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates

MA Arcs: #12285, "Small Fears", #106553, "Trollbane", #12669, "How to Survive a Robot Uprising"

I dunno either. The 'heap' strategy tends to collapse. Hence re-opening the floor to resubmissions, with Delgh's leading the pack.

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Well, Sky Kings' Ransom (#232308) has received some tarting up for I15...

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What shall claim a Sky Kings' Ransom?

PPD & Resistance Epic Archetypes

Ctrl + Alt + Reset! Is updated for I15 with a nice set of custom standard enemies in the final mission, and one recolored Wyvern boss. I think I put a request for a review somewhere back in there, but I can't remember if it was this one or my other one.

Arc Name: Ctrl + Alt + Reset!
Arc ID#: 137561
Level Range: 15-30
Missions: 4
Description: Foreshadow sends you to retrieve a temporal artifact before it wreaks havoc. Too late! And now you're stuck in a time loop and have to find your way out of it.

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Since you are opening up again, I have a couple as of now. While the second is a sequel, they each stand alone pretty well. No EB/AVs in any of the missions. They have been updated for I15, and I am contemplating some major changes on the second arc, if I can figure out exactly how to accomplish what I want.

Title: Future Skulls
ID: 4727
Levels: 1-15
Description: The Skulls are just a street gang now. But they have big plans for the future. Mirror Spirit asks for your help to stop one of them. [SFMA/LBMA]

Title: Simple Times
ID: 70801
Levels: 4-14
Description: Talshak the Mystic has asked for your help with a minor clean up mission in a warehouse. Happens all the time, no big deal, just giving someone a quick helping hand. At least that was how it started. Sequel to Future Skulls. [SFMA/LBMA]

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Justice Blues, Tech/Tank, Inv/SS
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Fighting The Future Trilogy
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Not technically a new arc, although I did retool it a bit (Mainly the last mission) in I15.

Astoria in D Minor, arc ID 41565 (Info is also in my sig)
Level range: 20-29
Description: A horror arc dealing with survivors trapped in Astoria after "The Event".

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Arc 4727 - Future Skulls
Level Range: 5-15

When I started doing these reviews I did so with the quiet understanding - at least to me - that I was going to be dealing with a lot of folk who needed or wanted promotion for their arc. I generally figured that arcs would have a small number of plays to their name and that I was going to be able to make a big impact by being amongst those few who offered a lot of distinct, usable criticism. Finding that some of these arcs have literally hundreds of plays while my own best arc has something in the district of fifty makes me wonder how much impact a lone review could have.

This got me thinking and I came to the conclusion that the main reason I write these reviews is to get an authors' attention, to try and make sure that the content being produced in the AE is up to my personal standards for play experience and writing, and then the author gets some promotion into the bargain. So... that asks the unfortunate tidbit: What about the crappy arcs? The author already has a large number of ratings and they're positive - my opinion is but one of many, and while I think it's more important than the others, the author can happily be inculcated from criticism by such experience.

Not a super-comforting point to me. The idea my opinion can be readily ignored, especially if I'm finding faults in something that is, effectively, critically acclaimed, bothers me.

This was on my mind as I clicked on Mirror Spirit.

The arc does a lot of good stuff with its formatting, right out of the gates. There's appropriate colours, there's italicisation and the title text hasn't been left to look exactly the same as everything else, leading to that odd 'What was I talking about?' effect where the title looks like the contact mumbling to themselves.

The arc also has a certain simple naivete to it, which I feel is germaine to the low level range of the arc. When you're in your 30s, you've probably seen a few human-skin bound books. At the 5-15 range? Chances are it's the first one you've seen, and that's not without its grossness. Or perhaps I'm just presuming.

I'm not certain that the character of the Skulls the author takes is the same as the character I see in them. My dealings with the Skulls in the game suggests to me that they're pretty small-time, and aside from the Bone Daddies, they're just normal punks and thugs without any real magical ability. They drop Tech salvage, which has always required me to reconsider the simple perception of them as magically-empowered ganglanders. Because of this, there's some discrepancy - the plot seems solid as I run it, but at the same time, I don't see it as appropriate for the Skulls. Good? Bad?

The basic premise of the plot is an apocalypse scenario, which I felt was interesting as a thing for a lowbie to avert. Normally when you save the whole world it's because you're an [censored]-kicking superdude. In this case, you just seem to be the only hero around... which is weird when you're getting your orders from another hero.

The problem of course - because you know there's going to be some nit I can pick - comes in the first mission where a number of elements are thrown together under Skull banners. The map is a hellion map, with fire and demonic symbols around. The Skulls, whenever I've faced them, have been in cold, stark warehouses. Then, a skull leader (a semi-established character, too) talks classically about the way the whole affair is going to play into their plans, and how you can't stand against their massive apocalyptic wave of hate and destruction. Does this sound like the Skulls to you? 'Cos it sure as heck didn't to me.

So the problem I have here is anachronism. The author views the Skulls (drug-crafting and distributing gun-and-hammer wielding gangland thieves pursuing a profit) as being more or less interchangeable with the Hellions (who are demon-worshipping magic-trinket-pilfering anarchists who engage in destruction for its own sake).

There are cool elements in this arc, cool tropes that I think any one of which could form the basis of a low-level, standard arc which explores an existing enemy group. The arc attempts to shoehorn a lot of them together, though, and none feel really satisfying. There's no exploration of the existing groups here, there's just the author using a convenient group to do what he wants to do and to heck with what the game tells us about the group.

There's also a question of scale. In this arc, you travel to the future, save the world from a massive apocalypse under a timer, receive guidance from Mirror Spirit herself (who is a full-blown, very powerful heroine who could kill every skull without blinking), talk about Salamanca as if you've been there before, and has the skulls thwarting Penelope Yin's powers - yes, Penelope Yin, the stated most powerful psychic on the planet. This creates the feeling - to me at least - that the whole arc isn't really a low level arc, it's just 'forced' to be so the author can use the Skulls - inappropriately, I think. It's almost a footnote at this point to point out that the final map is a hostage hunt across an outdoor Salamanca map full of guys that Mirror Spirit could obliterate by blinking at.

The whole arc has that unpleasant, bad-fanfiction feel of 'Hermione had changed a lot over the summer,' and felt very unsatisfying and inappropriate. There are good elements - I particularly like the second mission, feeling it quite an interesting thing to have added to a lowbie arc. But the rest of the arc is well-formatted, well-presented tosh. There's a twist - of sorts! - at the end, but it doesn't really matter at the point you find out. I'm sure there's a future arc (well, I really am - the author has said as much) that explains further and justifies, but that doesn't stop this arc from being bad.

So, this brings us on to the subject of the scores, no?

Rating: **
Tags: Solo Friendly, Save The World, Custom Characters

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Just a couple quick notes from a mostly unbiased reviewer that has also played this arc.

The fire map is a Skulls map. There are two on fire warehouse maps, one Hellion which is the smaller one, and this one which is labelled as a Skulls warehouse.

Also, you are not looking for the word Anachronism. That word is typically used for time inappropriate devices found in period movies/lit/etc.

And, the invisible spoiler text only works on the Heroes' board and not those viewing on the villain skin.

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And, the invisible spoiler text only works on the Heroes' board and not those viewing on the villain skin.

[/ QUOTE ]I'm following the dev's lead and telling the villains to suck it. I use the word anachronism because while the elements involved aren't bad, they're out of place.

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Bubbawheat already pointed out the office map. It is a Skulls map, that is why there is shattered 'dine vials on the floor in a couple of places. I know it is similar to the Hellions map, but I don't design them, I just use them.

I look at the villains in the game a bit differently than you do. I figured it might cause a problem with my rating, but another POV is always good. At least if it is well reasoned.

If you look at the comics, while people like the Vindicators and Freedom Phalanx deal with the high level villains like Recluse on an equal level, they also deal with Hellions and such on the same kind of level. In one issue, the Hellions and the Clockworks are giving the Freedom Phalanx a hard time. Part of the reason the Hellions and the Skulls are just street gangs is because 1. only their bosses have powers, and 2. they don't have the leadership to be more powerful in the villain hierarchy.

I have to admit, I was originally going to create an arc with the Skulls trying something big and getting in over their heads, getting rescued by the hero, but as I read their backstory the story changed into what if a Bone Daddy tried reaching for something really big? They are a street gang, but as it says:[ QUOTE ]
They are a death cult, of sorts, who seek personal glory and power through death, no matter whose.

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Bonesnapper is looking for lots of personal glory and power through a lot of death. And he apparently has convinced a deity to back his play. So it is not a typical Skulls dealing Superadine story, but I think it does follow from their backstory. This:
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So the problem I have here is anachronism. The author views the Skulls (drug-crafting and distributing gun-and-hammer wielding gangland thieves pursuing a profit) as being more or less interchangeable with the Hellions (who are demon-worshipping magic-trinket-pilfering anarchists who engage in destruction for its own sake).

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is certainly not true. While both gangs are on the bottoms of their respective villainy ladders, they are not interchangeable. They both have their own motivations and methods, which is why I used the Skulls. Their motivations fit the story.

I am not sure what you meant by this:
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a skull leader (a semi-established character, too)

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since Bonesnap doesn't exist with that name in the game. At least not that I know of. It is similar to a couple of other Bone Daddy names, but most of them are based on the same basic idea.

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It's almost a footnote at this point to point out that the final map is a hostage hunt across an outdoor Salamanca map full of guys that Mirror Spirit could obliterate by blinking at.

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As I said above, I disagree with the idea that any of the major heroes could just ignore the foot soldier Skulls, but I do agree that she could have defeated them, probably more easily then the player's character. Of course, one of the story points was, she and other powerful mystics were completely exhausted, with a couple dying, just from battling whatever power was backing Bonesnap long enough to get the location of the ritual. Just as I tried to establish that other heroes, like the Freedom Phalanx, were out scouring the city for the location of the ritual. Was that not clear enough in the story?

Thanks for the the thoughtful review. I don't agree with why you rated it where you did, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion about it. Even if it is wrong.

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Justice Blues, Tech/Tank, Inv/SS
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Fighting The Future Trilogy
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Firstly, great to have you back to reviewing Talen Lee!

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The author already has a large number of ratings and they're positive - my opinion is but one of many, and while I think it's more important than the others, the author can happily be inculcated from criticism by such experience.

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I agree with this completely. An author isn't likely to make significant changes to something that seems to work (it may have worked particularly just after opening, when less was expected of arcs) so it may be too late for a quality-shifting detailed review. Unless they're sitting on 3 stars. Even if you did make an incredible difference to the arc, history has probably resigned it to whatever rating it already had.

Perhaps you could take your playlist, multiply each current rating by number of plays, and start with the ones most likely to benefit from your help?

Cheers, airhead

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Arc 227331 - The Consequences Of War, Part I
Level Range: 30-54

I had a funny anecdote to lead with, but [censored] it. This review is long enough as it is. From what I read in the arc descriptor, this seems to be a flashback arc. This means, in theory, that I get to learn about a chunk of the lore, hopefully weaving some of the canon together with some of the fanfiction, a way to explore the game all anew. To do this thing, then step out and see someone I don't recognise talking about other people I don't recognise makes me leery. Now, if I've searched the Paragon Wiki right, neither the contact, nor the group he mentions appear in there. So I'm flying blind - I don't know much about the contact, and his character voice is not particularly distinct to me, and I don't know his group. I'm assuming that this is a flashback arc. I'm assuming that this is not current Rikti War Stuff. If it is current Rikti War stuff it makes much less sense, because we have the established Vanguard malarkey.

And now, onto the task of punchin' Rikti...

... which immediately gets the brakes on it as I fight a Rikti plasma bomb that ponies up a slab of information. Okay, I'll bite. I read through the slab of text, and even follow the link to the website. And now I find I'm playing the SG background of someone else, which is connected to the Rikti War. Okay. This is neither a plus nor a minus in and of itself. I don't see it as a bad thing for there to be backstory. I do find myself concerned that this is going to be part of the storytelling style, and that this arc is a ninety-minute Let Me Tell You About My Paladin told through giant chunks of info-dump style text.

I think there's a lot to be said in favour of the arc. For a start, the Rikti - because these are first-encounter style Rikti, Rikti before we understood Rikti speech - speak in snarls of Greek and Russian script. I don't understand it, and I don't know if they're talking gibberish, or if they're talking actual words in weird Rikti-ese. The important thing, to me at least, is that it indicates they're talking and that I can't understand them.

By and large, the arc has a lot of handholding which is not necessary, and in my opinion, diminishes my contribution. Second, the type of story is supposed to be a horrors of war storyline, where we see characters we care about suffering and dealing with the drama and the tension of a wartime environment. This is unfortunately met on the opposite end by the fact we have no reason to care about these characters. They're simple enough to grasp and don't really have anything that made me feel connected to them.

The whole arc suffers from the vice of telling me what was important rather than showing me. Rather than make me care about things, the arc executes itself simplistically and rather than utilise cinema or chains of events, the arc makes its objectives into laundry lists. This means that you're forced to explore it, and if you want to know what's going on, you have to read up the website. In essence, the author has created a fanfiction of his own fanfiction in the universe, and then offered it up to a larger audience. If you know the characters and care about them already, I am sure the emotional impact is different. But I did not find any of the 'supplementary materials' interesting enough to read. In other words, this arc might be good, if you're willing to put in a lot of effort. There's a secondary arc, which I suppose would explain and explore the rest of the story. But this arc, as its own creature? It's not very good. You're not very important, and you're not really achieving anything (because it's already happened).

(There's also something that bugs me as a sexist joke, but it's a really minor personal problem and I doubt I'll get any support on a forum full of comic fans so let's just say I didn't like Penthouse.)

Rating: **
Tags: Canon-Related, Drama, Origin Story

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Arc 227331 - The Consequences Of War, Part I
Level Range: 30-54

I had a funny anecdote to lead with, but [censored] it...

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Edit - I don't typically do this, but I've deleted this post. While I disagree with Talon_Lee for a variety of reasons I've discussed in the "Consequences of War" thread, referring to him as the "Simon Cowell" of CoH and making other defensive comments accomplished nothing. So, I'll simply edit this to say, "Thank you very much for the review" and leave it at that.

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The SOLUS Foundation - a Liberty and Pinnacle SG

"The Consequences of War" - Arcs # 227331 and 241496

Just for the heck of it I'm playing this arc.

I never bothered with going to the SOLUS site to read up on the people in the arc. I don't think it would have made me care about them more since they seem more like cameos walking on stage and saying their catch-phrase than anything else. Some of them are quite annoying in a manner familiar to anyone playing villain-side: they talk down to me and make it seem like my presence doesn't really matter, or is actually a hindrance.

Vanguard didn't exist in the way they appear in the game today back when this arc is supposed to take place. Having them show up in missions with full Impervium armor and talsorian weapons and everything else we hate about them seems wrong. Not only that but the stupidly overpowered npc Vanguard slaughter everything and makes this supposed crisis seem like a shoplifting spree. Perhaps they could be replaced by recolored and renamed weaklings like Axis Amerika troops, changed to appear like UN troops or US Army or something.

Similarly, although I can't be entirely sure here, the Rikti hardsuits didn't show up until the second rikti invasion.

I've been called away to play an LGTF so I'll have to finish this up later.

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Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522