dusting off an old idea: AT suggestions

So I was thinking about some character types I might never be able to make, but want. Conceptually, really. The biggest one in my case would be someone with the storm summoning and katana powersets. Or how about a martial artists with the tricks from Traps/Devices? And it's been said by some that Radiation Emission could almost work as a more 'active' scrapper secondary.

Thus comes my suggestion, to create two new Archetypes, one for the villains and one for the heroes, that combine the Buff and Melee power types.

I also kind of miss the seat-of-your-pants feel of the old Defiance for Blasters, so some of this might give that kind of feel.

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Our new AT on the Hero side would be:

The Daredevil (Melee/Buff)

NB: Almost all the Buff powersets could work, except maybe Empathy or Pain Domination, and same for the melee powersets. I am NOT recommending changing any of the powers in the Buff sets - a Katana/Kinetics Daredevil won't be able to Speed Boost himself, sorry. I'd suggest avoiding any Buff powerset that has more ally buffs than self buffs.

"But what of Status Protection?" some of you might decry. I'm glad you asked. That's where the Daredevil's suggested inherent comes in:

For each 10% Health lost, the Daredevil gains 1 magnitude protection against all status effects. Additionally, being at low health invigorates the Daredevil, increasing his Endurance Recovery inversely proportional to his Health loss.

Thus at 90% or higher, no protection. From 80-90%, 1 point of protection, and so on. Compare to Integration, which gives 10.38 points at level 50 if City of Data is correct. A Daredevil would have 9 points at 10% health, not quite as good as Integration but then... the Daredevil is supposed to survive by debuffing the enemies more than by protecting himself!

The Endurance Recovery says exactly that - so 10% health lost means a +10% endurance bonus, 50% health loss means a +50% endurance bonus, and so on.

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Our new AT on the Villain side would be:

The Enforcer (Buff/Melee)

(yeah, I like the old name for the Corruptor, so now I bring it back)

"And what about their Status Protection," you ask. The Enforcer's inherent, once again, comes to the rescue:

For each member of the team, including the Enforcer, the Enforcer gains 1.2? points of protection against all status types. Additionally, as their teammate's health goes down, their damage and accuracy goes up.

This means the Enforcer, at maximum, will have 9.6? points of status protection, slightly more than the Daredevil's maximum. Again, though, the Enforcer is supposed to be using the other tools at their disposal more than the status protection, and as an auto power this cannot be toggled off. The other half is basically an old Defiance-type bonus using a Vigilance-style check.

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Clearly, the inherents can easily be changed (although since they're melee folk, status protection should be considered). But I think these would be awesome combinations to play. Kinetics/Energy Melee! Dark Melee/Dark Miasma! Spines/Poison!* (Or from earlier, MA/Traps, or Katana/Storm)

*Of course, if Poison is ever given to a non-Mastermind, Noxious Gas needs to be somehow addressed since nobody else has any Henchmen to target. I'm hoping the Devs already have some ideas, because a Plant/Poison Controller needs to exist.

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The game ends at 50. Smilegasm
Do not ever give Mind Control a pet. We need more control sets without pets.
My characters are not "toons". They are all project characters, though.
Global chat @Lxndr My servers: Defiant, Liberty, Pinnacle, Virtue

Well.... you can kind of see how these things work in the mission architect. Mix and match powersets, don't cha know. I don't know how it'd work for player characters, but I certainly wouldn't mind seeing something like either of these in the long run in the game for us.

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Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed

I would actually like to see melee/suport, or support/melee character types, but there are some things that I think should be different.

First, UGH to scaling Status protection. Especially the Daredevil one.

Assuming the Daredevil is being the team's agro sponge, by time the Daredevil has any meaningful amount of status protection, they're as good as dead anyhow. Also, this puts you in the situation that in order to maintain your debuffs against mezzing enemies (basicaly all late game groups) people can't heal you, and you can't heal yourself. Meaning either you faceplant because you can't maintain your hitpoints, or you faceplant because you can't maintain your debuffs/buffs.

Second situation is that you're NOT the tank for your team, so you're not taking much damage, and thus have no status protection. HOWEVER you have to be in melee range, which means every single aoe control used on your main tank is going to hit you, shutting you down entirely.

Just make it a middling value of permanent protection. Say 4-6points.



Second, I actually think that most, or even ALL, support sets SHOULD be specifically reworked for this Archetype, not ported in as is.

Hurricane for instance is an exceptionally counterproductive power for an archetype that relies on melee attacks. As would be any mass Knockback type powers; Repel, Repulsion Field, Sonic Repulsion, Force Bubble, Gale. As well asl any powers that cause scatter; Freezing Rain/Sleet, lit Oil Slick Arrow. And to a lesser extent certain other powers such as Force Bolt, Lightning Storm and Tornado.

(I actually have done quite a bit of thinking on this subject and have some sample power layouts written down. I'll add a mock up of what I think it should look like once I get it typed up.)

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Ever heard the word tankmage?

Yeah, that's why these combinations are likely never going to be available. They would be very overpowered, especially a Scrapper with the Rad secondary. Jeez! It would be awesome but we have to keep the game balanced.

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Yeah, the scaling-to-HP mez protection is an off-the-top-of-my-head attempt to address the issue. But I'll admit I *loved* the old Defiance, and really want to see something that encourages people to play in the red. That was exhilarating, y'know? But getting buff/melee combined would be better than getting that exhilaration.

I like the Enforcer's scale-to-group-size protection, though. The Daredevil's probably should be a fixed number, though, you're right. If that's the case, I'd probably ALSO give them the old blaster-style Defiance, which was not enough in and of itself, but isn't bad stacked on top of inherent mez resistance.

IMHO, I'd avoid Force Field AND Sonic Resonance for these two sets. My original post (which I'd saved) had lists of suggested powers. FF and SR weren't on there, and now you're reminding me why. Looking at the powersets again, I should probably revise my suggestion from 'more ally buffs than self buffs' (since that seems to be just emp and pain) to 'more than 3 ally-targeted powers'.

That said, I think there's an argument for keeping Hurricane, Repel and Gale the way they are (since I'm tossing away FF and SR, I won't address the other powers you mentioned). They're 'oh crap' buttons. With Hurricane and Repel, too many enemies around you? Turn the power on, they're scattered. Yay. Same use as Hand Clap, really (only Repel doesn't have any secondary effects - at least Hurricane debuffs).

The other powers - Freezing Rain, Sleet, Lightning Storm, Tornado... they are good powers. A melee individual can certainly use them profitably, despite the scatter they cause. Hell, when I am a melee individual teamed with someone with these powers, I'm pretty good, even if said individuals are unskilled in their use (yay random pick-up groups). When said individuals are skilled in their use, I'm better. I'd like to think our DareForcers would, over time, become skilled in their use.

As for Oil Slick Arrow - while I love Trick Arrow, I think I'd suggest not including it with these guys. Mostly it's conceptual, I think it's just silly for someone to be pulling out a bow and arrow, and then a sword, and then a bow and arrow, etc. etc. all while in the middle of combat, too. I don't know. Thoughts?

I know there's been a lot of power rearrangements since I left, but six months ago, these were the powers I recommended:

DAREDEVIL

Recommended primary powersets (Melee): Ice Melee, Fiery Melee, Martial Arts, at least one of Broadsword or Katana, at least one of Battle Axe or War Mace, Electrical Melee

Recommended secondary powersets (Buff): Radiation, Kinetics, Storm, Cold, Thermal, Traps


ENFORCER

Recommended primary powersets (Buff): Dark Miasma, Poison, Storm Summoning, Kinetics, Radiation

Recommended secondary powersets (Melee): Dark Melee, Spines, swords/axes/mace, Electrical Melee, Energy Melee

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The game ends at 50. Smilegasm
Do not ever give Mind Control a pet. We need more control sets without pets.
My characters are not "toons". They are all project characters, though.
Global chat @Lxndr My servers: Defiant, Liberty, Pinnacle, Virtue

Forcefield and Sonic seem to me like they would be two of the sets that make the MOST sense on a melee/support character, as they're the only ones that offer any substantial personal defense that's NOT entirely dependent on mob placement (Being within the radius of your debuffs) or mob debuff resistance (Archvillains and the like, who'll shrug off your debuffs AND smack you good with their AoE and hard hitting melee attacks.)

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I dunno... I don't hink it -would- be a Tankmage, if the numbers were right... Sure! With his Rad Debuffs he could help to protect the whole team! But at he same time he's drawing all the aggro onto himself, and as a melee type has an effective range of about 7 feet.

Of course if he were teamed with a tank it could be overpowered... In the same way a Blaster/Tanker team is overpowered...

In melee he's getting hit from ranged attackers, melee attackers, and plenty of AoE, even if he's teamed with a tanker or other Aggro Magnet.

So yeah... I don't think the idea is terribly broken.

-Rachel-

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(QR)

Here's an example of the type of modification I think that a the ATs would need to their support sets:

This set is based off of Cold Domination and focuses primarily on PBAoE effects.

Coldfront (Cold Domination)
1) Refresh - PBAoE Click - 25' Radius - 8second Recharge - 30second Duration
11% Heal
+Resist 5%Fire/Cold [unenhanceable][Stacks from same caster]

2) Frozen Shell - PBAoE Click - 25' Radius - 15second Recharge - 240second Duration (Based off of Ice Shield/Glacial Shield)
+Defense 10% Smash/Lethal/Melee
+Resist 7.5% Cold
+Resist 5% Fire

3) Frigid Aura - PBAoE Toggle - 25' Radius - 10second Recharge (Snowstorm)
-Speed/Recharge 50%

4) Glacial Shell - PBAoE Click - 25' Radius - 15second Recharge - 240second Duration (Based off of Ice Shield/Glacial Shield)
+Defense 10% Energy/Negative/Ranged/AoE
+Resist 7.5% Cold
+Resist 5% Fire

5) Arctic Fog - PBAoE Toggle - 40' Radius - 15second Recharge (Straight Port of Arctic Fog)
+Stealth
+Defense Melee/Ranged/AoE 3.75%
+Resist Fire/Cold/Energy 15%
+Resist Speed/Recharge debuff 60%

6) Biting Cold - Ranged Click - 70' Range - 90second Recharge - 30second Duration (Infrigidate and Benumb)
-Regeneration 500%
-Defense 25%
-Speed/Recharge 62.5%
-Damage 50%

7) Frost Coat - PBAoE Click - 25' Radius - 480second Recharge - 120second Duration (Frostwork)
+Max Hitpoints 44%
+Resist Toxic 15%

8) Arctic Freeze - PBAoE Click - 15' Radius - 30second Recharge - 15second Duration (Variation of Sleet, ended up just going with a PBAoE Arctic Breath, which was based of sleet/freezing rain anyhow)
10x 2.54damage over 10seconds
-Defense All 30%
-Resist all 30%
-Speed/Recharge 40%

9) Heat Loss - Target AoE Click - 15' Radius - 360second Recharge - 90second Duration Buff/30second Duration Debuff (Straight Port of Heat Loss)
Foe -Speed 30%
-Recharge 300%
-Resist All 30%
-Endurance 33%
Ally +Endurance 20points
+Recovery 50%


The defense Buffs (Ice Shield and Glacial Shield) are changed into PBAoE powers, so they affect your character as well, but at a slightly lowered value. Combined with the fact that you DON'T have the added safety of being able to stay at range, I think it's fine that way.

I altered almost all of the powers to be PBAoE effects, since the design of the archetype puts them right in the thick of things anyhow.

I didn't change Heat Loss at all, because if it functions the way I think it does (Like Fulcrum Shift) it pushes you into melee if you want the full benefits from it anyhow. (My Cold defender is only level 18ish so I'm not too sure.)

*Frostwork as is with 3 Recharge SOs slotted can be on 1/2 of an 8man team full time, so I swapped it out to being on the Full 8 man team 1/2 the time)

EDITED: to remove an unnecessary note about soemthing I changed anyhow.

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Yeah I didn't think tankmage when I read it either. Tank mages would be more akin to having Scrapper damage melee and Defender level buffs at the same time. Scaling is acceptable to me, it's not impossible to think that this would be un-balancable. Not easy, but probably not all that hard with tweaking.

And, actually, now that there IS the MA, I wonder if it could be consisdered testing, since I know a lot of folks actually do put those kinds of sets together just because *it's possible* From those numbers, and understanding in the background that they're on npc's who do act differently, it'd be more easily tweaked...

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Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, that's why these combinations are likely never going to be available. They would be very overpowered, especially a Scrapper with the Rad secondary.

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Not everything different is a "tankmage." Would giving Scrappers Blaster attack sets make them "tankmages"? What if you replaced the melee attacks in the OP's proposal with Blaster sets?

You'd end up with the Corruptor class almost exactly as it is.

Which is why I don't know if I see this as that great of an idea intrinsically. The buff/debuff sets would have specifically tailored for the class in order for me to see this as viable. Otherwise you might as well just play a Defender with air superiority and jump kick.

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, that's why these combinations are likely never going to be available. They would be very overpowered, especially a Scrapper with the Rad secondary.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not everything different is a "tankmage." Would giving Scrappers Blaster attack sets make them "tankmages"? What if you replaced the melee attacks in the OP's proposal with Blaster sets?

You'd end up with the Corruptor class almost exactly as it is.

Which is why I don't know if I see this as that great of an idea intrinsically. The buff/debuff sets would have specifically tailored for the class in order for me to see this as viable. Otherwise you might as well just play a Defender with air superiority and jump kick.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't forget Flurry to round out your attack chain! =-3

-Rachel-

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Hey I *like* flurry!

>:[

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Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed

[ QUOTE ]
Ever heard the word tankmage?

Yeah, that's why these combinations are likely never going to be available. They would be very overpowered, especially a Scrapper with the Rad secondary. Jeez! It would be awesome but we have to keep the game balanced.



[/ QUOTE ]
I think this would be more like a tankmage.
Tankmage AT (defense/control) Medium HP/Low DMG

Melee/Rad would rock. Say hello to a new AV soloer.

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I would not be opposed to a Melee/Buff (or Buff/Melee) AT added to the game. Maybe then all the nonsense directed at undermining Scrapper secondaries so they can pretend to be Defenders can shift to that AT and free up Scrappers to flip out and kill stuff like in the old days. While I would personally not play such an AT, I don't believe it would be overpowered, practically speaking.

Even plain replacing a Scrapper secondary with a Defender primary wouldn't be TOO much of a problem (overpowered, obviously, but not by THAT much) as the Scrapper would lose the thing that kept them alive - their protection. Pretty much all of it. As Defender buffs aren't always applicable to yourself and Defender debuffs have limitations, being forced into melee would still put you at a significantly higher risk of death than the typical Defender, and without personal protection to protect you, this is a precarious situation indeed.

Practically speaking, however, such an AT would, in my eyes, require Scrapper health, about Tanker damage and special Support sets that mix support with personal protection in a similar way that Assault sets mix melee and ranged damage and Manipulation sets mix damage and support. I'd also say that such an AT should have somewhere between Mastermind and Controller support numbers.

I don't believe that would be overpowered. If anything, it would probably end up underpowered.

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