City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Live Feedback: Issue 13 : Multi-Builds

AlwaysCranky

By AlwaysCranky,
Posted on: 2008-12-11 19:21 in Developers' Corner

 

Posted

Objective: It'd be more convenient if you could do it like a respec, especially for soldiers of arachnos (who have to level their 2nd build as a wolf spider or blood widow to 24, then are forced to respec and start over from level 1 at 24, then finish levelling up to whatever level they were).

Subjective: I'm not using the dual builds feature very much at all.

First, the majority of my characters have absolutely no use for it, as their primary build is more than capable of doing everything I want them to do.

Second, re-equipping my second build with new IO sets on numerous alts is prohibitively time-consuming. Equipping the second build with SOs or common IOs, meanwhile, would make it so much less effective than the original build that I would probably be better off using the original build anyway, even if it weren't custom-tailored to the task at hand.

The exception to these two points might be PvP, but I refuse to PVP in I13 because of DR and the generic-ization of PvP.

"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."

 

Posted

I posted this in the Suggestions forum, but I thought I would post it here, too. I also posted it a thread about keybinds, but at the time I was kind of making it a hint. Anyway, since this is likely where the devs will be reading, this is where I am going to put it.

Changing to a different build causes you to lose all of your macros, that is, the macros are specific to the build. So, in order to make use of multiple builds, if you have many macros, you have to reenter them all manually. This can take considerable time.

Thus, I'm asking for the ability to load and save macros, just as you can load and save keybinds. Or at least, copy over the macros from one build to the other, so the player can edit them as needed. I would much prefer the ability to save macros, of course, as it would be far more useful.

I can't see any problem with saving macros that wouldn't already exist with saving keybinds. And in fact, keybinds are not restored to the default when you shift your build, and you can't have multiple versions of your keybinds for different builds. (Unless you load them) So being able to customize your macros, and tie keybinds to them, would certainly be helpful in customizing your control options to your build.

 

Posted

I think this is pointless. Most people have a style of play that requires the powers and enh that they have chosen and through gameplay and time have respec'ed a few times to get the build just right. A second build is useless due to the fact they got their toon right with the first build. Now if you could have the second build able to choose different powersets but keep it in the archetype you chose. So you can't be a blaster and a controller. I think this would be more useful. But people spend a few billion inf on their original build and took months to get what they need. To have to do this again with another build with only maybe 1 power change...it's all a waste of time.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is pointless. Most people have a style of play that requires the powers and enh that they have chosen and through gameplay and time have respec'ed a few times to get the build just right. A second build is useless due to the fact they got their toon right with the first build. Now if you could have the second build able to choose different powersets but keep it in the archetype you chose. So you can't be a blaster and a controller. I think this would be more useful. But people spend a few billion inf on their original build and took months to get what they need. To have to do this again with another build with only maybe 1 power change...it's all a waste of time.

[/ QUOTE ]This is why you are wrong. Some players have a need for a high end content build and an exemplar friendly build. Currently I am working on this with my stalker. He will have a build with purples for the exemplar friendly build and the high end content buildd he will be speced to be at the soft cap on defense where it is needed most. For my support characters they have a build with all the support powers and few attacks but also have a build for solo with no ally powers and all the attacks. So saying its useless is just flatout wrong. You just arent thinking about it in the right way.

Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator

Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!

 

Posted

Um, I did say MOST people, not all people.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Um, I did say MOST people, not all people.

[/ QUOTE ]Even still I think more people use this feature than you think.

Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator

Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!

 

Posted

My level 45 ILL/Emp 'troller uses a team/solo build set up. The team has all the heals & buffs (few offensive powers). The other has all the offensive stuff (no heal/buff other) plus TP foe & things like that.

I hate the long timer between swaps, because it never fails, I get into a solo mission & some SG mate needs help. I swap over & give them a hand, then I get to sit around for several minutes until I can switch back. Or I have to make them wait because I just swapped to the solo build at the start of the mission they interrupted.

Besides the timer, I love the dual build system.

 

Posted

I have found multiple builds to be exceptionally useful for my characters that used to be team dependent. Nobody would team with my Empathy defender unless she had almost all of her primaries, and most of my slotting went to those powers, leaving my attacks useless and impossible to solo with.

Now, I can have a build for team support and one for soloing. I love this addition to the game - L.O.V.E. I.T

 

Posted

I did not realize beginning a second build as crab would permanently staple it to my back, is the only solution to delete the character?

The 15 timer is also to much, for many of the reasons everyone else explained. Sometimes I would like to compare how my power tray is setup, to make them both the same but have to wait awhile before each change.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
The 15 timer is also to much, for many of the reasons everyone else explained. Sometimes I would like to compare how my power tray is setup, to make them both the same but have to wait awhile before each change.

[/ QUOTE ]

/screenshotui 1

Print Screen

Now you've got a picture of it. Problem solved.

Changing builds automatically recharges your powers. The cooldown period is meant to account for the auto-recharge as far as I can tell.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I did not realize beginning a second build as crab would permanently staple it to my back, is the only solution to delete the character?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's listed as a Known Issue. I'm not sure if that means there will be a workaround at some point or if they just want people to stop reporting it.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Thus, I'm asking for the ability to load and save macros, just as you can load and save keybinds. Or at least, copy over the macros from one build to the other, so the player can edit them as needed. I would much prefer the ability to save macros, of course, as it would be far more useful.

[/ QUOTE ]
You can create a text file to do this. Creating a macro using the chat in-game, it's done this way:

/macro [name] "$$powexecname Power$$gototray #"

The important part to know is the "$$" between commands. make a text file using this format:

$$macro [name] "$$powexecname Power$$gototray #"

Then, just use "/bindloadfile folder\filename.txt" to load that file. Doing it this way only adds macros to empty slots. To get more fine control of your macro file, use the "macroslot" command in conjunction with the "gototray" command:

$$gototray 1
$$macroslot 0 "TM1" "team_select 1"

Using "macroslot", the macro will replace whatever is currently in that slot but only in the active tray. The tray slots are numbered 0-9, the first slot being 0 (horizontally, the far left) and the last slot being 9 (horizontally, the far right).


| Issue 9 Fly poses | IO's and ED
| Cycling the Combat Monitor | Load Macros from a Text File |

 

Posted

I play a lot of defenders, and for some of them the option of having team and solo builds has been a tremendous boost. I'm giving all my toons with powers that only affect allies a solo build that has none of those powers in it and concentrates on other powers that make them able to solo. My Emp/Rad can solo again! Hallelujah!

The cost of slotting enhancements twice is rather prohibitive, but I don't have a good suggestion for fixing that. I'm not sure what I'm going to do about IO sets when I get that far on one of my multi-builds...be very very broke all the time, I guess. This is particularly rough on lower level toons who haven't had the time or luck to build up a lot of money yet. We do not all pan-handle or have rich level 50 friends on every server willing to give us handouts at the drop of a hat...

The only thing about the system I really dislike is the 15 minute timer. It is annoying, when your solo/team status can change unpredictably, that you can't roll with the flow and switch out builds as-needed. I think having to run to the trainer to switch builds is quite sufficient to prevent exploitation of the system without also having the 15 minute wait.

In addition, the 15 minute wait is EXTREMELY annoying when you are trying to train, especially when you have things you'd like to slot on the *other* build in your tray, which you can't use without committing to that build for 15 minutes. That really stinks. IMO it is the worst thing about the system. I'd like to see the timer done away with completely.

I think joining a team and telling them "one sec, running to a trainer to switch my build" is acceptable and sufficient to prevent abuse, whereas "sorry, no buffs or shields for another 10 minutes, and then I need to bail and run to the trainer to switch to my team build" is NOT acceptable. Odds are really good the team invited the defender (or controller) specifically for those team-only powers...

So to sum up, it is an awesome feature, I'm very happy to have it, I wish there was a way to mitigate the expense of slotting everything twice, and the 15 minute timer is frustrating and a royal pain in the backside - but I'll still use multi-builds and be thankful for the option.

Thanks!

Tam Lyn Carter, Ialuine, Propitious Puma, Seraf Berylwing, Snowsprite, Damian Newmoon

Chibi Dark Tam, Mr. MacStabbity, Turlin, Frostsprite

And many many more across all servers.