Issue 13: Power & Responsibility Discussion

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While I can agree that burst-damage hit-and-run tactics were somewhat irksome when I first started pvping (I say when I first started, as it didn't take long to realize it wasn't really that hard to get some return hits in), I still have to disagree with the implementation of movement suppression as we have it now.

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Fair enough, your post is both reasonable and reasoned. Thanks, I appreciate that. I also take your point about how your brute now has a harder time of avoiding Storm Controllers--and your point about how fun and free it is to move about in all 3 dimensions. Of course, you can still do both of those things. All you have to do is stop hitting long enough for movement suppression to lift, and off you go.

What you can't do anymore is race in with a high-damage burst, smack someone, and then race just out of range long enough to recharge and blow them away without facing any significant retaliation. If you hit, you must be prepared to be hit back. If your build is not usable in the absence of the hit-and-run strategy, then yeah, you are going to have trouble with the new system.

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At any rate, just because some people were "abusing" (I put that in quotes as I personally don't see it as such) the previous unsuppressed movement, there were many more reasons why it was a viable system with some definite good (and I daresay necessary) aspects.

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The only counterargument one ever needs to make regarding whether or not the old system was "abused" or "viable" is to note the ghost-town nature of PvP zones for the last few years. It was abused, if the metric for abuse is the extent to which the playerbase avoids a feature of the game that was intended to be a major and heavily-used aspect of the game. It wasn't viable, if viability is assessed by whether or not the playerbase uses it. Whether the new system will prove to be viable or not remains to be seen--I'm hopeful, but time will tell.

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While yes, I could move on and adapt as certain people keeping bringing up, there are even less fights I can hope to win now, not more as Castle and crew seem to profess is possible.

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I'm guessing motives on the part of the devs here, which should always be taken with a grain of salt, but I would imagine that when Castle and crew talk about increasing the odds of winning, they don't mean for the set of playstyles and tactics that were already heavily favored to win in the old system. In a competitive game, you can't increase everyone's odds of winning simultaneously--you can only make it easier for a broad set of tactics to win by making it harder for the previously favored narrow set of tactics to win.

If you are determined to _not_ adapt to the new system, I would suggest that you might look forward to the increased challenge that the hit-and-run playstyle now faces--it will now require substantially more skill in order to do it successfully, and I am constantly reminded by hardcore PvPers about how skilled they are.

I do not, of course, know whether or not you count yourself as having mad combat skillz, but if you do, I'm sure you're secretly delighted to have this long-overdue opportunity to actually put those mad skillz to the test.

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Um. I don't even begin to PvP and I'd say "lern2playnoob".

It's a game based on super-speeded, flying superheroes that shoot laser beams from their hands.

...what the heck else would be smarter than "run in... nuke... flee before the return hit.?

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I am not arguing that the hit-and-run approach isn't a smart tactic. It is very smart--and I've said so, in a prior post. Of course, as tactics go it would be even smarter still to have a laser-based satellite that plugs your opponent from orbit without you ever having to enter the battlefield at all. I'm sure that the smart tacticians among us are eagerly awaiting the "Nuke 'em from Orbit" AT.

What I AM arguing is that as tactically smart as hit-and-run is, it isn't representative of the superhero genre that the game is--at least in principle--trying to emulate, and it isn't nearly as fun to have done to you as it is to do it to someone else.

Since this is a game and not a battlefield, smart tactics that make the game unfun are things that any sensible game designer has an obvious interest in discouraging. I don't think it's a huge leap to suggest that this is why movement suppression is now making it more challenging to perform the hit-and-run attack successfully. Similarly, I'd suggest that this is why the tacticians among us will be waiting a loooooong time for the "Nuke 'em from Orbit" AT despite its obvious tactical advantage.

Thanks!

That's three years of base salvage converted into brainstorms. Where's the EASY button when you need it?

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I was wondering, what about the new boards? I thought they were supposed to go live with Issue 13? (Curse my search-fu as I can't find the post about it).

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I don't think it was ever stated that they would go live with Issue 13. You may be remembering when they announced that the new forums would be used for the closed beta period of Issue 13 testing.

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Hence why I qualified my statement with the words "I thought". But I was certain I read somewhere about them replacing the boards, because right now they don't mesh with the new website.

WHAT kind of [censored] is this? Rolling back the recepie not selling at university.

IF YOU WERE GOING TO ROLL IT BACK WHY DID YOU DO IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I WAS GETTING SET UP TO DEAL WITH IT AND NOW YOU KILLED MY WHOLE [censored] OPERATION.

This is plaync way of dealing with everything isnt it? Miasma was TOOOOO HARD for the idiots with a machine gun in tr. What happens, THEY KILL THE MOB CONCEPT.

Tr doesnt work right, what do they do? THEY KILL THE GAME?

Lineage2 got so many gold farmers and inflation... What does plaync do? i'm not sure...

Recipies not keeping up with the demand, oh noes, what do we do?

TR = Failure
Auto Assault = Failure
Aion? = Failure

Why? cuz of plaync. Freaking failure of a company.

Well someone's not in a perky mood. You also have to realize that all those other games don't necessarily (as far as I'm aware of) share the same design team as City of Heroic Villains.

Is there a link anywhere to changes that have been made to the chat system; more specifically, to the use of <color> attributes? They've either been changed in ways not obvious to me or are broken, and I'd like to find out which is the case before I go changing some 30+ characters' bind files.

What was the rationale for limiting Pacts to characters 5 and under? I've been doing the same thing with a friend, trying to keep our experience as close to equal as possible along the way -- if experience is close to the same, why can't we Pact regardless of our level? I assume there's a way this can be abused, but I just don't see it yet.

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What was the rationale for limiting Pacts to characters 5 and under? I've been doing the same thing with a friend, trying to keep our experience as close to equal as possible along the way -- if experience is close to the same, why can't we Pact regardless of our level? I assume there's a way this can be abused, but I just don't see it yet.

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Entirely new system and they're trying to see how it interacts with the game before expanding it.

Possible (and intended, if it works) future expansions include expanding the levels at which you can pact (with, presumably, some restriction on how far apart in levels the characters can be) and number of characters able to join in a pact.

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Is there a link anywhere to changes that have been made to the chat system; more specifically, to the use of <color> attributes? They've either been changed in ways not obvious to me or are broken, and I'd like to find out which is the case before I go changing some 30+ characters' bind files.

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Known bug. None of the colors in chat (ANY chat, including pre-coded, like SK warnings) are currently working properly. It's being worked on.

What was the purpose of changing the whole detoggle thing in PvE. Several times during fights i've clicked to detoggle a travel power the same as i did Pre-i13 and it doesn't do anything. Basically no power can be selected or cycling through while i click to detoggle sprint, super jump, etc. I don't see how this is a QoL change or any need for it in PvE. So what's the purpose of it?

Regarding my last 2 posts, here is an explanatory bug report:

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I don't know what's happening. At first i thought you coudnt buy recs at university. Then, on an older toon i actually bought some. And now back on this toon i can't buy em anymore. Either you're rolling back and forth this thing or some character can still unintenioally buy recs at university. Not quite sure, what's happeneing here.
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Seems they would be "looking into it".

And while i'm at it, this thing. Still a bug report.

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if you make a bind with: (/bind lshift+enter s "hi") it will bind the same thing to rshift. If you don't specify rshift or lshift the bind string gets corrupted.

If you make a bind like : (/bind lshift+enter beginchat "/petsay_all <em >") the string gets corrupted because of the '<' and '>'. remove those and it works fine.


AND i bugged this already. I don't like how you tell me "thanks AGAIN for your report" Do your freaking job and fix this game, don't give me crap because it's not working. My bug report doesnt show up on the active petitions. I am saving this to file and if you delete it again i'll find someone HIGHER than you to send it to.

Thank you.
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Your post on the bug reports might be better in this section, in case there are GMs who use that section to find stuff to assist with troubleshooting the tickets sent in to them. (At least, that's how we used to do things at the last IT place I worked at, but NCSoft might be different.)

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

Feeling FelineFury's rage a bit here. I was starting the Posi TF yesterday and several people were at the U broadcasting for help because they couldn't buy recipes from the workbenches. When I try it, I have no probs. Why is is happening for some people (and a LOT of them) and not others?

I'm sure someone has complained about the base editing mess already; I myself have already sent three petitions about various issues. This is what I am seeing:

* If you move or add a wall item, it snaps to the ceiling or floor. If you have raised floors or lowered ceilings, the object may no longer even be visible.

* If you move a room and change your mind, the editor will not let you move it back.

* If you rotate a room, all of its contents will be scrambled.

* If you move or place a larger object (one that fills a grid square, like a telepad or an insp collector), it will snap to the level of the highest floor elevation in the room, regardless of where you are trying to place it (I now have three Tpads that are levitating four feet off the floor).

* If you move or place a Personal Storage Vault, it no longer adheres to the wall but floats in space about two feet from the wall.

* Whereas it used to be difficult or impossible to place some items in close proximity, it is now possible to place two objects in the exact same location. Stairs can be submerged in raised floors, an object can be left standing in the middle of an altar, and pillars can now occupy exactly the same spacetime coordinates. Why you would actually want this functionality completely escapes me.

In addition the chat system has picked up a new bug (like it needed any more). Apparently if you exceed an unstated number of characters, the window discards everything preceeding the point where you exceeded the limit. Yes, it throws away the first part of your message. Was on a team yesterday where the communication consisted only of the ends of sentences. Nobody could figure out what anyone else was saying unless we kept it to two or three words at a time. Eventually we gave up and disbanded.

The thing with the toggles not dropping in PvE has created a larger problem. Twice I've been flying, not in combat, and am attacked by something on the street (not a stun or hold or sleep, it's always a direct damage attack like a shotgun or automatic weapon fire), only to have Fly toggle OFF and I fall for tremendous damage because I CAN'T TOGGLE IT (or Hover) ON.

Day Job temp powers? Did we really need these? Was anybody asking for them? A prestige bonus that only lasts five minutes from the moment you log on? Really? It will take me longer than that to find a team. A Wents TP that only exists for 40 minutes game time that can only be used once every 15 minutes? What possible use is that? A five minute speed boost so small I can't tell the difference?

And to top it all off, they still didn't fix the mini skirts.

I don't understand why they feel the need to tinker with things no one thinks is broken, when there are plenty of things that still actually need fixing. How many petitions do we have to send before they do something about the bugged storyline in Faultline? I now have five toons that were cut off at the end of Jim Temblor's arc without getting either Penelope Yin or Doc Delilah as contacts. How many times do I have to whine about the mini skirts that they broke with i12 before they actually fix them (answer: they aren't going to do it, because they figure if they wait long enough everyone affected will have reached a new costume point and will have fixed it themselves)?

Are they not sufficiently testing this stuff? Was there ANY reason that i13 (or i12 for that matter) had to be rushed out without thorough testing? The game itself is no longer beta, why are the patches released in a beta state?

I am really looking forward to seeing the development of Champions Online. If NCSoft keeps messing up CoX like this and CO holds any promise, I will be moving there.

I'm posting this here because support just LOOOOVES my emails. I thought i'd go easy on em and not file a bug report.

I have 2 missions in the same door. I go in, it's the wrong one. K, np i go out, try to select the other one.

Apparently i'm not team leader, on a team of one. Which is sort of strange.

I'm so sorry your little game has bugs in it. I'm really sad to bring this up because it would involve someone doing hard, painful work to fix this.

** Huge wall of mostly positive text and opinions **

Random things I wove about I13

I know I've posted this in other places, but I'm sooooo happy I can make a marsh in my base. If more options get added to base building over time, I will keep being happier than a cat with a bunch of rat pups. I think the more the bases have the feel of "your sg's home away from crime ridden streets" the better.

- I love dual builds. I feel like I leveled a bunch of new toons overnight to 50. I'm making all these special ops second builds for pve tfs and teaming.

I badge hunt on 1 vill and 1 hero toon. And I am SO happy about the new badge interface. It's split up so no more like 200 achievement ones to go inch through. And mousing over and seeing actual count stats for a badge made me drool! I had to replace my keyboard I was so excited and drooled so much (May be an exaggeration)

Meh, or would like changed/tweaked
I don't love, but don't completely hate the merit system as much as I originally whined (holds back the whining) about during beta. I would like merits to be upped slightly across the board and available to use with any toon on my acct. Lately I have been playing my alts less, because if I hop around alts like I always used to, I won't be able to buy anything above an SO for a while. I'd rather buy those in the stores for inf.

I also don't know if I'll do some of the low ones ever again. I did posi last night and (i've done it about 4x in the 2 and 1/2 years I've been here) when we'd get the kidnapped npcs to a vator on the (2nd mish maybe?) they would run in the vator with us, then turn around and run back in the vator to the other level. When we'd go upstairs they were gone. Later they'd reappear back on the floor we were headed to.
That was in addition to all the zones, and low travel powers without a kin that has sb and syphon speed or tp temp.

In pvp I've rolled toons in the pvp zones that are still just awful alts in pvp no matter how I build them. I was expecting the ones that were quickly destroyed in i12 pvp to have a better chance in i13.

I used to set a pvp troller in i12 with the psionic anciallery set. Now that click power in the set seems useless for mezzes.. I have great difficulty holding a widow or dom, but they easily mez me. That's how it was for me pre i13.

Others are better, etc. I'm hopeful there will be more balance in the future, but (although I'm a part-time pvp'er) it seems like the FOTM toons are just different ones now. I'm not a doom person on pvp, though. I'm waiting and seeing if the new system gets tweaked and if other pvp incentives are added.

So anyway, that's imo. (runs back to look at the marsh room in the base again).

But, please don't multi-hate spam this thread. That's a great way to have devs not have the stomach to even read the good input on it.

(QR)

" [Admin] Attention! In 30 minutes, the City of Heroes and City of Villains servers will go down for maintenance reasons. Further information can be found in the City of Heroes Forum."

Which forum? :-p

Click for Hot Sun Splitter Action

I don't feel like reading through the many pages in this topic to see if this is mentioned (highly doubt it) but...

Flared pants are missing from under the "Pants" category for females. It is still under "Tight Pants" but you cannot choose your boots with that one. And "tight leather pants" no longer exist; only "motorcycle leathers" do.

And because tight leather pants and flared pants no longer exist, we have to pay 200k influence (as a level 50) on top of whatever cost the thing we wanted to change in a costume is because the pants are being reset to whatever default and is acting as if you changed them on purpose?

This is QUITE upsetting.

Otherwise, much appreciation for the higher functionality coming from this issue.

How do you get all 5 power pool powers? Like now there's 5 powers per pool, and only 4 chances to get one...