Pointy, Flaming Death - Spines/Fire Guide [I12]
By
BeornAgain,
Posted on: 2008-07-03 24:00 in Player Guides
VI. Epic Pools and You
I debated with myself over picking an epic pool. You really only have three choices, and the choice you make should be determined by two different things. One, how much you are willing to spend on IOs to make your character effective. Two, what type of gameplay you'll be engaging in the majority of the time (PvP, or PvE). Scrappers have less choices than any other AT out there for epic pools (and I hope this changes in the future...I13? Please? Pretty please?).
1. Darkness Mastery: If you are dipping into this pool, then first I would recommend you have burn. The power that you are aiming to grab is tenebrous tentacles, which is a 30 degree cone AoE attack which immobilizes enemies, which means you can toss that at a group, and then drop a burn patch in the middle of them. It will do quite a bit of damage, and can be an effective combo once you get it down. However, a 30 degree cone is not as big as one might think. If you happen to be farming and there is a group with 9 or 10 mobs, chances have you'll be able to hit about half of them every time due to mob spacing. Even then, you'll only be able to tag so many of them with the burn patch. It's a pain in the butt to do, when you could simply be spamming throw spines and spine burst.
My recommendation is this: If you want to have a farming build but you don't want to spend money to get IO sets for your spines/fire scrapper, then pick up darkness mastery and try out the TT+Burn combo for yourself. You may like it. However, if you are willing to spend some amount of money on IOs for your spines/fire scrapper, it is best to just avoid this pool. I'll show you why later. I wouldn't recommend this pool for any PvPers.
2. Body Mastery: I like this pool. I like it a lot. It's great for PvE, it's great for PvP too. The vast majority of scrapper builds dip into this pool...Focused accuracy is an amazing tool to have, if a bit end heavy. Grab FA if you're into PvP, but I'd also recommend grabbing conserve power along with it. Both are very nice tools to have whether you are PvEing or PvPing.
Recommendation: You get the two best powers out of the pool available to you at 41. It's easy to pick up what you need and then get whatever else you want in your build. I'd recommend this epic pool moreso than either of the other two.
3. Weapon Mastery: This pool is kinda wonky. I've experimented with the caltrops and burn combo, but the caltrops aren't nearly as effective as TT for keeping mobs in the burn patch. The upside is, you can get it at 41, instead of 47 (TT). Web grenade could be nice if you're experimenting with a PvP build, I suppose.
Recommendation: This pool is just kinda 'meh'. I wouldn't recommend it unless you're looking for something different.
VII. PvE Tactics
So...once you've got to about 32 or so, you'll have filled out your attack chain (if you picked up throw spines.) At level 50, my attack chain looks something like this.
Fiery Embrace --> Build Up --> Throw Spines (target the guy furthest in the back) --> jump in, use Spine Burst
From there, clean up anything that is still somehow alive. Tag runners with impale, use throw spines when it comes back up. It really is quite simple once you get it down, the above chain of attacks will wipe out quite a few minions from a group. Use healing flames if your health starts to drop. Use consume when your endurance bar gets low.
VIII. PvP Tactics
From here, it really depends on what kind of environment you are fighting in, and what pools you had picked up. If you are doing zone PvP, your spines/fire could be potentially excellent at hunting stalkers if you pick up focused accuracy and slot a rectified reticle perception IO, perhaps also grabbing tactics. Having two damage auras is also great for rooting out stalkers. Remember, in PvP, Impale is probably going to be your best friend ever. Knocking flyers out of the sky (it has a -fly component), and doing great damage in the process. If you are really into PvP, I'd recommend slotting up your travel powers (you'll probably want both super speed and super jump), maybe dropping something like spine burst from your attack chain in favor of making more room for things. Make sure you pick up Acrobatics, and probably slot some KB IOs into your build somewhere.If you're more into the arena PvP or duelling scene though, you'll probably already have a decent idea of what you need to do. Phase Shift is a great tool for adding onto survivability.
IX. Frequently Asked Questions
Q. You've alluded to Spines being somewhat endurance heavy. Just how endurance heavy are we talking, fella?
A. Take a look below for some of the endurance costs.
Barb Swipe - 3.536 end
Lunge - 5.2 end
Spine Burst - 15.184 end
Build Up - 5.2 end
Impale - 5.2 end
Quills - .52 end/second
Ripper - 11.024 end
Throw Spines - 13 end
The above are all unslotted values.
Keep in mind, if you are running a standard build, you'll have around 5, 6 toggles going on average, plus hasten. (Fire Shield, Plasma Shield, Tough, Quills, Blazing Aura, maybe Acro, maybe your travel power of choice). It all really adds up, which is why things like Stamina, Conserve Power, and Consume are all such important tools, as is slotting for endurance reduction to all of your attacks, and especially your damage auras (quills and blazing aura).
Q. Which powers can I reasonably stay away from in spines and in /fire?
A. In spines, you can stay away from barb swipe and confront. Neither are necessary at all. In /fire, temperature protection, burn, and rise of the phoenix are all quite skippable.
Q. Just how good can spines/fire be at farming?
A. See section XI.
Q. Is spines/fire any good at PvP?
A. It all depends on the skill of the player controlling the character. People have remarked that it is a lot like spines/regen, but the key differences are that spines/fire has lower health, but resistances to compensate (and can reasonably laugh at anything that uses fire). Spines/fire also has fiery embrace, which is great for increasing burst damage, which is important in PvP situations. I'd say spines/fire is roughly on par with spines/regen in terms of PvP capability, whether it be zone or arena.
Q. Cake or Pie?
A. Pie, duh.
X. Builds of All Kinds
As with my previous guide, I've put together some builds for different situations. NOTE: Mids' Hero Designer is currently not allowing slotting of any endurance modification sets into consume. I'll point out before the beginning or end of each build what could be appropriately slotted.
I'll start with something to level with...note the levels at which everything is slotted, slot the appropriate level enhancement into that slot (whether it be DO, or SO. I'll be putting IOs into the build just to show.)
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.40
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Spines/Fire - To Level With: Level 50 Mutation Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Spines
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Lunge -- Dmg-I(A), Dmg-I(3), Dmg-I(5), Acc-I(7), EndRdx-I(19), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 1: Fire Shield -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(11), ResDam-I(13)
Level 2: Spine Burst -- Dmg-I(A), Dmg-I(3), Dmg-I(5), Acc-I(7), EndRdx-I(15), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 4: Healing Flames -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13), Heal-I(15), RechRdx-I(37), Heal-I(37), Heal-I(42)
Level 6: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(19), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 8: Impale -- Dmg-I(A), Dmg-I(9), Dmg-I(9), Acc-I(11), EndRdx-I(25), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 10: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- Krma-ResKB(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A), EndRdx-I(46)
Level 16: Plasma Shield -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(17), ResDam-I(17)
Level 18: Health -- Heal-I(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(21), EndMod-I(21)
Level 22: Consume -- Acc-I(A), RechRdx-I(23), RechRdx-I(23), RechRdx-I(36), EndMod-I(36), EndMod-I(40)
Level 24: Quills -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(25), EndRdx-I(34), Dmg-I(40), Dmg-I(43), Dmg-I(46)
Level 26: Ripper -- Dmg-I(A), Dmg-I(27), Dmg-I(27), Acc-I(29), EndRdx-I(29), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 28: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 30: Blazing Aura -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(31), EndRdx-I(37), Dmg-I(43), Dmg-I(45), Dmg-I(46)
Level 32: Throw Spines -- Dmg-I(A), Dmg-I(33), Dmg-I(33), Acc-I(33), EndRdx-I(34), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 35: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 38: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Tough -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(42), ResDam-I(42), EndRdx-I(50)
Level 44: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 47: Focused Accuracy -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(48), EndRdx-I(48), ToHit-I(48), ToHit-I(50)
Level 49: Acrobatics -- EndRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]+10.1 second Knockback (Mag -4) to Self [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs][*]+10.1 second Knockup (Mag -4) to Self [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs][/list]
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And now, here's my own personal build. Arid, my spines/fire is built for both farming and PvP. Note that there should be a full set of Efficacy Adaptor placed into consume. The build cost an obscene amount of influence (though I am quite proud to say the total costs were under 1 billion) but it was worth it! Note that the build is quite heavy on the procs. I've taken a liking to them.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.40
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Arid: Level 50 Mutation Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Spines
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Lunge -- Hectmb-Dmg(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(3), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Hectmb-Dam%(5), T'Death-Dam%(25)
Level 1: Fire Shield -- TtmC'tng-ResDam(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(7), TtmC'tng-ResDam/Rchg(7), S'fstPrt-ResKB(9)
Level 2: Spine Burst -- Armgdn-Dmg(A), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(11), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Armgdn-Dam%(13), Sciroc-Dam%(48)
Level 4: Healing Flames -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(13), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Dct'dW-Heal(15), Dct'dW-Rchg(17)
Level 6: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 8: Impale -- Apoc-Dmg(A), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(19), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(21), Apoc-Dam%(21), TotHntr-Dam%(50)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- Krma-ResKB(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(23)
Level 12: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(17), Rec'dRet-Pcptn(23)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 16: Plasma Shield -- TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/Rchg(25), TtmC'tng-ResDam(27), Aegis-Psi/Status(27), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(50)
Level 18: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(29), EndMod-I(31)
Level 22: Quills -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), ImpSwft-Dam%(29), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(31), EndRdx-I(31), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), Sciroc-Dam%(33)
Level 24: Consume -- Empty(A), Empty(33), Empty(34), Empty(34), Empty(34), Empty(36)
Level 26: Ripper -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(36), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(37), Sciroc-Dam%(48)
Level 28: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(37), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 30: Blazing Aura -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(39), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), EndRdx-I(40), Sciroc-Dam%(50)
Level 32: Throw Spines -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(42), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Ragnrk-Knock%(42), Posi-Dam%(43)
Level 35: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 38: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Tough -- TtmC'tng-ResDam(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(43), TtmC'tng-ResDam/Rchg(46)
Level 44: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(45), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(45), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45), RedFtn-Def(46), RedFtn-EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Acrobatics -- EndRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]+6% DamageBuff(Smashing) for 10.8 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+6% DamageBuff(Lethal) for 10.8 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+6% DamageBuff(Fire) for 10.8 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+6% DamageBuff(Cold) for 10.8 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+6% DamageBuff(Energy) for 10.8 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+6% DamageBuff(Negative) for 10.8 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+6% DamageBuff(Toxic) for 10.8 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+6% DamageBuff(Psionic) for 10.8 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+3% Defense(Smashing) to Self for 10.3 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+3% Defense(Lethal) to Self for 10.3 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+3% Defense(Fire) to Self for 10.3 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+3% Defense(Cold) to Self for 10.3 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+3% Defense(Energy) to Self for 10.3 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+3% Defense(Negative) to Self for 10.3 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+6.13% Defense(Psionic) to Self for 10.3 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+3% Defense(Melee) to Self for 10.3 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+3% Defense(Ranged) to Self for 10.3 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+9.25% Defense(AoE) to Self for 10.3 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+4% Enhancement(Heal) to Self for 10.3 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+65% Enhancement(RechargeTime) to Self for 10.3 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+72% Enhancement(Accuracy) to Self for 10.3 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+100.4 HP (7.5%) HitPoints to Self for 10.8 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+10.3 second Knockback (Mag -8) to Self [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs][*]+10.3 second Knockup (Mag -8) to Self [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs][*]+MezResist(Immobilize) (Mag 2.2%) to Self for 10.3 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+MezResist(Sleep) (Mag 6.6%) to Self for 10.3 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+MezResist(Terrorized) (Mag 2.2%) to Self for 10.3 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+20% Perception to Self for 10.3 seconds [Non-resistable]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+12% (0.2 End/sec) Recovery to Self for 10.3 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+46% (2.57 HP/sec) Regeneration to Self for 10.3 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+10.1% Resistance(Fire) to Self for 10.8 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+10.1% Resistance(Cold) to Self for 10.8 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+9.38% Resistance(Negative) to Self for 10.8 seconds [Non-resistable] [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster[*]+2.25% Resistance(Psionic) to Self for 10.3 seconds [Non-resistable]
Effect does not stack from same caster[/list]
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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XI. Want to See It In Action?
The two links below show just how powerful spines/fire can be, especially in a farming setting (alone, no less!). If you know how to view demo files, I'd recommend loading up a demo instead of the youtube video. I chose to publish the video in the wrong format. If you want to learn how to play a demo or record your own, visit this page to learn how to play a demo file.
Youtube Link
CoHDemo Zip File
Questions? Comments? Send me a PM, or post in the thread. All feedback is welcomed.
@Kalen on Virtue
Reserving a space for when I add more builds in the future.
@Kalen on Virtue
[ QUOTE ]
about as fast as any fire/kin that you have ever seen in action.
[/ QUOTE ]As long as she fulcrum shifts you when you need it, sure.
Haven't read the rest, but I found it. Will feed back later.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
about as fast as any fire/kin that you have ever seen in action.
[/ QUOTE ]As long as she fulcrum shifts you when you need it, sure.
[/ QUOTE ]
Truth be told, it all depends on what is being farmed. It is easier to make a fire/kin farmer than it is to make a spines/fire farmer, definitely.
@Kalen on Virtue
Great write up. I've sort of built my scrap the same way (choosing powers), but without all the nicer IOs 
Not enough money
Still a fun toon, with same attack chain. FE/BU/Throw/Spine Burst/Ripper/Impale next group
"Resistance is FUTILE!"
Great guide, really. You echo a lot of my experience on my spines/fire thus far. I PL'd my own spines/fire to 50 a couple of weeks ago. I am starting to IO him up, but as you know, it is expensive. A couple of thoughts:
1) I tried using Burn and TT. It is pretty much useless for farming (or anything, really), and I'm glad to see you agree. Also, not going the burn...TT route gives you an extra 4 power picks.
2) I was hoping that my spines/fire would be a faster farmer than my fire/kin. She's got 4 purple IO sets and a few other recharge bonuses, so her recharge is usually in the 160-180% range (w/ 2-3 siphon speeds stacked). My spines/fire has 2 purple IO sets so far. Anyway, the fire/kin blows through mobs much faster (and, frankly, more safely) than the spines/fire. I watched your demo, and I was impressed. Your spines/fire definitely runs through mobs much faster than my spines/fire. BUT, my fire/kin blows through equal sized groups of +2's much faster than your spines/fire does +1's, and with less $$ invested in IO's.
I don't think you were claiming that spines/fire is a better farmer than fire/kin. I just wanted to clarify for those peeps who were thinking about levelling a spines/fire to make a better farmer than a fire/kin. If you put the same amount of money in the builds, the fire/kin will win every time, IMO.
Now, having said that, the spines/fire is a lot of fun, and more fun to take on TFs and other teams (especially when exemplared).
I just dont understand how you can talk about farming and not include energy torrent. This is a staple power in any true farming spines. In pvp having laserbeam eyes and energy torrent will help you a ton as well.
Superspeed is far superior for farming as you are in position for spine burst much faster as you will be in middle of mob after target furthest throw spines. Then take a step back and fire off energy torrent.
[ QUOTE ]
Great guide, really. You echo a lot of my experience on my spines/fire thus far. I PL'd my own spines/fire to 50 a couple of weeks ago. I am starting to IO him up, but as you know, it is expensive. A couple of thoughts:
1) I tried using Burn and TT. It is pretty much useless for farming (or anything, really), and I'm glad to see you agree. Also, not going the burn...TT route gives you an extra 4 power picks.
2) I was hoping that my spines/fire would be a faster farmer than my fire/kin. She's got 4 purple IO sets and a few other recharge bonuses, so her recharge is usually in the 160-180% range (w/ 2-3 siphon speeds stacked). My spines/fire has 2 purple IO sets so far. Anyway, the fire/kin blows through mobs much faster (and, frankly, more safely) than the spines/fire. I watched your demo, and I was impressed. Your spines/fire definitely runs through mobs much faster than my spines/fire. BUT, my fire/kin blows through equal sized groups of +2's much faster than your spines/fire does +1's, and with less $$ invested in IO's.
I don't think you were claiming that spines/fire is a better farmer than fire/kin. I just wanted to clarify for those peeps who were thinking about levelling a spines/fire to make a better farmer than a fire/kin. If you put the same amount of money in the builds, the fire/kin will win every time, IMO.
Now, having said that, the spines/fire is a lot of fun, and more fun to take on TFs and other teams (especially when exemplared).
[/ QUOTE ]
I appreciate the comments, especially since you have experience with the build, and I don't disagree with you at all. I have a fire/kin at 50 as well (IO'd, too) and it farms extremely well and efficiently. It is less difficult, and depending on what is being farmed, can be safer.
Take my word for it, peeps! - if you want something that can powerlevel/farm well and want to spend less on it, roll a fire/kin controller instead. Spines/fire is just fantastic for a change of pace when it comes to farming, and lots of teams that you manage to get on will love your AoE capabilities. By no means is spines/fire a better farmer.
[ QUOTE ]
I just dont understand how you can talk about farming and not include energy torrent. This is a staple power in any true farming spines. In pvp having laserbeam eyes and energy torrent will help you a ton as well.
Superspeed is far superior for farming as you are in position for spine burst much faster as you will be in middle of mob after target furthest throw spines. Then take a step back and fire off energy torrent.
[/ QUOTE ]
The one problem with energy torrent is that it does knockback. It is highly counterproductive to keeping mobs grouped tightly together for powers like throw spines (which frankly has a much better arc than energy torrent) and spine burst. You're much better off just utilizing the strength of those two powers.
I personally like SS when used with CJ, once you get the movement down it can be nice, and you're right, you can get into position quicker.
@Kalen on Virtue
Energy Torrent from the EPP does not do knockback against even-level non-knockback-weak enemies. Unless you're farming blues...then it's incredibly useful. On my non-IO-crazy Spine/Regen, BU, TS, ET, SB, all minions are dead (no Quills, here).
Enemy Resistances - Damage, Mez and Defense
Enemy XP Mods
(Drag my avatar into your mp3 player!)
[ QUOTE ]
Energy Torrent from the EPP does not do knockback against even-level non-knockback-weak enemies. Unless you're farming blues...then it's incredibly useful. On my non-IO-crazy Spine/Regen, BU, TS, ET, SB, all minions are dead (no Quills, here).
[/ QUOTE ]
That's actually good to know, I'll keep that in mind. I'll take back what I said then about ET being lame for the knockback, I think it could be incorporated into a farm build, sure. Your aim just has to be better than it is with throw spines.
The one problem remains though, you have to grab two other powers from the set in order to get it first.
@Kalen on Virtue
You recommend both FA and CP, so there you go?
Aim isn't a huge deal; after they are hit by TS, the enemies tend to beeline for you, so just back straight up for a half second and they'll end up in a line. ET, they fall over, then they're sitting still & pretty and all clumped up for SB. Works wonders.
Enemy Resistances - Damage, Mez and Defense
Enemy XP Mods
(Drag my avatar into your mp3 player!)
It seems like a great guide, but do you really think that you would recommand to slot only three rech on build up? :/
Just my curiousity o.O
[ QUOTE ]
It seems like a great guide, but do you really think that you would recommand to slot only three rech on build up? :/
Just my curiousity o.O
[/ QUOTE ]
What would you suggest?
3 Recharge puts the recharge at +99.1% with 3 lv 50 IOs. 96% with SOs. Adding 3 more only adds 8-10%, at most I think, which for a 90s recharge power, changes the recharge by 2-3s. Hardly a noticeable or meaningful change, especially for 3 slots.
Exactly, 2-3s is not that big of a deal. *Especially* if you've got global recharge bonuses. Even with +30% or so global recharge, having 2 Recharge IOs vs. 3 won't be *that* big of a change.
[Edit]: Oh, and beyond that, I wouldn't *ever* slot more than 3 recharges in a power other than Hasten, and I'd only slot more than 3 recharge IOs in Hasten if I had a permadom build that needed it.
@Kalen on Virtue
You can save yourself another slot by just putting two enhancements in. Level 50 IOs give you a 42.4 boost. Two level 50 IOs in buildup and it recharges in 32.5 seconds. 3 recharges and it recharges in 30.2 seconds, 2.3 seconds faster. Even two level 40 enhancements give you a 33.9 second recharge, or with level 35s, 34.6 seconds. Only 2 seconds slower then level 50s. Save yourself that third slot with basic IOs unless you really need that last bit of a boost.
Maybe easier to read:
2x 35s - 34.6
2x 40s - 33.9
2x 50s - 32.5
3x 50s - 30.2
Impale is good for flyers in PvP true...UNLESS they are running CJ and fly/hover together. If they are using CJ and fly/hover impale will not drop them out of the sky.[ QUOTE ]
Pointy, Flaming Death - Spines/Fire Guide [I12]
Table of Contents
I. Introduction
II. Pros and Cons
III. Spines Powers
IV. Fiery Aura Powers
V. Recommended Pool Choices
VI. Epic Pools and You
VII. PvE Tactics
VIII. PvP Tactics
IX. Frequently Asked Questions
X. Builds of All Kinds
XI. Want to See It In Action?
I. Introduction
When I12 rolled around, I decided to start up a spines/fire scrapper. It was one of the first things that I decided I wanted to try to level. I spent a lot of time theorizing about just how effective it could be in PvP and PvE situations (especially farming). After taking it to 50 and trying out several different builds (with IOs, even), I've determined that it is incredibly potent PvP combatant in arena duels, zone PvP, and in PvE. With the correct slotting, one can farm efficiently and quickly, about as fast as any fire/kin that you have ever seen in action. This guide contains my opinions from experience as to what works well, as with my guide to the SS/Elec brute. You may find after taking a power that I had not necessarily recommended that you did in fact like it. So, without further ado, the guide.
II. Pros and Cons
Pros:
Spines is the most AoE intensive scrapper primary available. It comes with a PbAoE damage aura (quills) an AoE ranged cone (throw spines) a close ranged melee cone (ripper) and a PbAoE click (spine burst.) Most of the damage generated by spines is in fact lethal, the most resisted damage type in the game, but many attacks feature a small toxic DoT after the power hits your target.
Many attacks in spines feature a -speed component and a -recharge component. It is small, but noticeable when fighting mobs that these effects stack up used quickly, one right after another, especially the -speed.
Spines has two ranged attacks, impale and throw spines. Impale is great for tagging runners. Both attacks have a decent range.
Fiery aura is the most offensively oriented scrapper secondary available. You have many tools of destruction available to you, such as blazing aura (PbAoE damage aura), consume (which does a small amount of damage if it lands), fiery embrace (which is almost like a second build up), and the infamous burn, which even in its nerfed form is still potent if it is combined with the right tools.
The /fire secondary also features one of the best self heals in the game, healing flames. It is up often, and can heal up much of your health bar with the correct slotting. Healing flames also gives +15% toxic resistance for one minute, and the effect can stack.
/fire offers fantastic fire resistance.
Cons:
Spines is mostly lethal damage, and it is commonly resisted, as stated above.
Spines is not very single target intensive in comparison to other sets, such as broadsword or fire melee. It can still generate acceptable single target damage, however.
Fiery aura being the most offensively oriented secondary for scrappers, it has a few status protection holes, as well as resistance holes. Fiery aura is a resistance based set. There is no psi resistance, the cold damage resistance is pathetic even with temperature protection, and the toxic resistance can only be gained by using healing flames often. Fire only comes preloaded with Stun protection, Hold protection, and Sleep protection. It has no immobilize protection unless burn is used, and it has absolutely no knockback protection, which will necessitate -KB IOs, or Acrobatics. It also has no repel, confuse, terrorize, or enemy teleportation protection, nor does it have any slow protection.
Many people are on the fence about /fire's tier 9 power, Rise of the Phoenix. It is a self rez power which grants invulnerability for a short period of time. I firmly believe that if taking such a power is needed, and it needs to be used often, then, "ur doin it rong." Better powers can be taken to prevent death in the first place! This is an advantage that a set such as super reflexes or regen has over fire, their tier 9's actually add to your survivability (in short bursts.)
Some people think the spines are graphically ugly, or they look like flaming plantains. I wouldn't disagree with them when it comes to the latter.
III. Spines Powers
Note: Whenever I write 'recommended slotting' I am talking about what SOs I'd recommend to be slotted in a power.
Barb Swipe
Available at level 1
Melee, Minor DMG(Lethal), DoT(Toxic), -SPD, -Recharge
Recharge: Very Fast
Recommended slotting: 3 dam, 2 acc, 1 end
Recommendation: Barb Swipe is not worth taking. The animation is too long for the amount of damage it does. Skip this, grab lunge instead.
Lunge
Available at level 1
Melee, Moderate DMG(Lethal), DoT(Toxic) -SPD, -Recharge
Recharge: Fast
Recommended slotting: 3 dam, 2 acc, 1 end
Recommendation: Take this power instead of Barb Swipe at level 1. The animation/activation is quicker, and you'll see more damage out of it. Keep it for the long run, slot it up.
Spine Burst
Available at level 2
PBAoE Melee (Radius - 15 feet), Moderate DMG(Lethal), DoT(Toxic), -SPD, -Recharge
Recharge: Slow
Recommended Slotting: 3 dam, 1 acc, 1 end, 1 rech
Recoommendation: GET IT GET IT GET IT! This power becomes a staple in your attack chain. The damage is good...be careful when using it in a large group of mobs, you might draw more agro than you can handle. If you like to farm, if you like to do regular old PvE, or even some instances for PvP, this power is good.
Build Up
Available at level 6
Self +DMG, +To-hit (+100% dam, 20% ToHit)
Recharge: Long
Recommended Slotting: 3 Rech
Recommendation: This power helps hit enemies easier, and it boosts the damage of all of your attacks for ten seconds. Get this and use it before you launch any big attack, or chain of attacks. This will be used in conjunction with something like fiery embrace to boost your damage way up before hopping in and decimating a group.
Impale
Available at level 8
Ranged (40 ft. range), High DMG(Lethal), DoT(Toxic), Immobilize, -Recharge, -Fly
Recharge: Moderate
Recommended Slotting: 3 dam, 1 acc, 1 rech, 1 end
Recommendation: Impale is a fantastic attack, especially for attacking runners (which, with I12 seem to be quite common.) It's great for any attack chain, and is useful even in melee range. Take it, you'd be a fool not to, ESPECIALLY for PvP (where it is all about trowing impale!)
Confront
Available at level 12
Ranged (70 ft. range), Foe Taunt
Recharge: Fast
Recommended Slotting: 1-3 Taunt Duration
Recommendation: Seeing as how you are a /fire scrapper, you aren't the most durable guy in the world. Sure, it's nice to have the attention of a mob, but do you really need it unless you're defending some squishie? I'd recommend skipping this power unless you know you will be needing it often. Spines will draw plenty of agro from the smaller mobs which aren't being focused on by someone else...believe me.
Quills
Available at level 18
Toggle: PBAoE (Radius - 8 feet), Minor DoT(Lethal), Foe -Speed, -Recharge
Recharge: Slow
Recommended Slotting: 3 endurance first, 3 damage later
Recommendation: This is one of two damage auras that you will want to pick up to maximize your AoE damage potential. It's a nice toggle, can be kind of end heavy before slotting though, so get endurance reducers in it ASAP, and then worry about slotting for damage later on.
Ripper
Available at level 26
Melee (Cone) (range - 5 feet, 90 degree arc), High DMG(Lethal), DoT(Toxic), Knockback, -SPD, -Recharge
Recharge: Slow
Recommended Slotting: 3 dam, 1 acc, 1 end, 1 rech
Recommendation: Ripper is a great addition to your attack chain. The flipping animation looks cool as all hell, and being able to hit some tightly-packed mobs with it is a big bonus. The first time you pop build up and then crit with this power, you will smile. This attack is the hardest hitting one in all of spines.
Throw Spines
Available at level 32
Ranged (Cone - 90 degree arc, 30 ft. range), Moderate DMG(Lethal), DoT(Toxic), -SPD, -Recharge
Recharge: Slow
Recommended Slotting: 3 dam, 1 acc, 1 end, 1 rech
Recommendation: Yeah, it's your level 32 power. Yes, get it at level 32, it is an amazing attack to have. The power fires off quickly, and the cone seems to be absolutely gigantic for the range that comes with the power. Often times I find myself popping fiery embrace, build up, and then launching this off - it is beautiful thing seeing so many orange numbers pop up even before I hop into a group and get down to scrapping. Take this power!
IV. Fiery Aura Powers
Fire Shield
Automatically taken at level 1
Toggle: Self +Res(Fire, Lethal, Smash, Cold, Disorient)
Recharge: Very Fast
Recommended Slotting: 3 resistance
Recommendation: You don't have a choice when it comes to the first power in the set, but you'd have wanted this power anyway. A great deal of damage resistance comes from this power, and it is vital that it is slotted for resistance. It all adds up.
Blazing Aura
Available at level 2
Toggle: PBAoE, Minor DoT(Fire)
Recharge: Fast
Recommended Slotting: 3 end redux first, 3 dam later
Recommendation: It is tempting to get a damage aura early on, but I personally would not recommend getting any damage auras at all until after stamina is picked up, or even after consume is picked up. Do not pick one damage aura up before you have a chance to slot another. I'd hold off on grabbing this power until the late 20's or so. Get quills before you pick this up.
Healing Flames
Available at level 4
Self Heal, +Res(Toxic)
Recharge: Long
Recommended Slotting: 3 rech, 3 heal
Recommendation: /fire's heal is an excellent one, it being able on par with /regen's reconstruction. Take this power when it is available to you at level 4, at low levels it adds tremendous amounts of survivability, and this extends all the way to 50. I can't say that there isn't an instance where this power is not useful. Get it.
Temperature Protection
Available at level 10
Auto: Self +Res(Fire, Cold)
Recommended Slotting: 1 res...or alternatively, put a -KB IO in it if you must
Recommendation: For the amount of resistances that this power offers (7.5% cold, 22.5% fire), it is not worth taking. The fire resistances granted by this power will put you well over 15% over your 75% resistance cap for fire, and taking this power for another 7.5% cold resistance is pointless. Only take this power if you cannot find something more useful out there instead.
Plasma Shield
Available at level 16
Toggle: Self +Res(Energy, Negative, Fire, Hold, Sleep)
Recommended Slotting: 3 res
Recommendation: Take this at level 16, this is your other shield that will make sure you don't get mezzed by sleeps or holds, and it ups some important resistances. Plasma shield is staple for any character with fiery aura, whether it be brute, tanker, or scrapper.
Consume
Available at level 20
PBAoE (radius - 20 feet) Fire Dam, Self +End
Recommended Slotting: 1 acc, 3 rech, 2 endmod
Recommendation: This power will allow you to spam attacks a lot harder than you could before. If you have this slotted properly (and believe me, it does deserve all 6 slots), you will almost never run out of endurance, or you'll have a much harder time of it anyway. Consume is another staple /fire power, especially when running an AoE semi-end-heavy primary like spines. Take this at 22 or 24...after you get stamina.
Burn
Available at level 28
Location (PBAoE), Moderate DoT(Fire), Self Res(Immobilize)
Recommended Slotting: 3 damage, 1 rech (maaaaybe.)
Recommendation: Burn is by no means what it used to be. It is very nice to have a tool to grant immobilize protection if you don't already have something like combat jumping at your disposal. The area that this power affects could be considered small, so if you decide to grab this power, you need to keep two things in mind. One, you must be able to tag the most amount of mobs possible with this in order for it to be worth it. Two, you must be able to keep those mobs inside of the burn patch. If they are anything short of an AV, they will run. Read below on my take of epic power pools if you want further advice on tools to keep enemies inside the burn patch.
Fiery Embrace
Available at level 35
Self +DMG (125% for fire 20 sec, 100% for 10 sec everything else)
Recommended Slotting: 3 rech
Recommendation: It's just like having a second build up, but without the +ToHit component. It'll boost all of your damage by 100% for 10 seconds, and for all fire damage that you deal it will deal an extra 125% damage for 20 seconds. This power is very handy, especially for an AoE maniac like Spines/Fire. Take this power and don't look back. Use it often in conjunction with build up.
Rise of the Phoenix
Available at level 38
Self Rez, Special
Recommended Slotting: 1 rech
Recommendation: As I stated above, I don't believe in taking a power to resurrect yourself before you take a power which could have kept you alive in the first place. If you want this power for concept, take it. Otherwise, there are better things to be had.
V. [u]Recommended[u] Pool Choices
Fitness: You will want fitness for stamina. Health is a nice place to put things such as a Miracle: +Recovery, or Numina Unique. Stamina should be 3 slotted for endmod. It is your choice as to whether you pick up swift or hurdle, but personally, I favor hurdle in conjunction with combat jumping. It makes your scrapper amazingly versatile for hopping in and out of combat (more on this later under tactics.)
Leaping: Yeah, I like having super jump a lot on melee characters, I will admit. Combat jumping is an excellent place to put something like a LotG: 7.5% if you've got the cash, or a Karma: KB protection. A lot of people aren't willing to spend the money on KB IOs, so acrobatics is a power you may want to take. It is an invaluable tool, even after the huge nerf to it. If you take jump kick, I reserve the right to laugh at you.
Speed: Take Hasten. Slot it for 3 recharge. It's a fantastic power that will help all of your powers come back quicker (obviously). I can't stress how important it is enough. If you like super speed, pick that up too. Leave the rest of the junk.
Fighting: Pick Boxing or Kick, it doesn't matter - the real reason you are here is to pick up tough. Tough should be slotted with 3 resistances, it adds a lot to your survivability as a /fire scrapper. Pick up Weave if you'd like, if you're into stacking +def bonuses up. I picked up weave on my scrapper to slot a LotG: +7.5% and 5 pieces of Red Fortune. Take this pool if you're really into PvE, if you're looking at PvP however, there is an alternative you may want to grab.
Concealment: If you're into PvPing, get this pool, especially if you're doing duels and what not. You are here for phase shift, since it kicks butt. Get phase, and in stealth and invis, slot some IO sets/LotGs if you can afford it/spare the slots. I would NOT recommend this pool if you are going to be doing mainly PvE.
Leadership: I'd actually consider getting Assault for the added damage bonus on a spines/fire scrapper. It all adds up. Play around with it some, you might find you like the constant 10.5% damage bonus (and the people you team with might like it too.)
[/ QUOTE ]
@The REAL Chop
My teachers always told me to follow my dreams. To bad they are all Nightmares.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
about as fast as any fire/kin that you have ever seen in action.
[/ QUOTE ]As long as she fulcrum shifts you when you need it, sure.
Haven't read the rest, but I found it. Will feed back later.
[/ QUOTE ] I tested this, but first let me set the standards that were set. I would take my tank and herd up an ungodly amount of zombies/witches etc..while ToTn and have them all in one area. Somewhere around 20-30 prolly. Once in place i would go in with my fire/kin/earth and go thru my normal PLn/farming routine. After that i tried it with my spine/fire/dark and went at it. Truth be told i was killing the mobs(20-30) atleast 15 seconds faster with my scrapper vs my fire kin. On that note, i have ran my fire/kin on the demon farm map from start to end in 9 minutes.(not touching demons on upper lvls). So i do have some experience with a fire/kin.
Long story short, a well played and well built spine/fire can trump a fire/kin any day. Be prepared to spend about 600-800 million on a tight spine/fire build tho, as where a fire/kin with just IOs will do....just my 0.02
@The REAL Chop
My teachers always told me to follow my dreams. To bad they are all Nightmares.
Excellent guide ill be using all this info while i build my spine/fire
One of the problems I found with Spines/Fire is that it's just about the squishiest Scrapper combos there is, while being the most agro intensive. What this translates into is a very dead Scrapper (multiple times) when grouping (or you're doing so much juking and jiving that your damage isn't realized).
Here is a build that I'm using right now that makes me quite a bit tougher for group play and TFs and also has the by-product of allowing me to farm tougher stuff more quickly. It costs about 200mil influence (as of this writing) and is *not* PvP oriented.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
Kid Kruunch: Level 50 Mutation Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Spines
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Lunge -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), T'Death-Acc/Dmg(3), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(3), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(15), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), T'Death-Dam%(43)
Level 1: Fire Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-EndRdx(13), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(13), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(15)
Level 2: Spine Burst -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(5), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(5), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Oblit-%Dam(50)
Level 4: Healing Flames -- Dct'dW-Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(25), Dct'dW-Heal(39)
Level 6: Boxing -- RzDz-Immob%(A)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A)
Level 10: Impale -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(11), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 16: Plasma Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), RctvArm-ResDam(17), RctvArm-EndRdx(17), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(19)
Level 18: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(21), P'Shift-End%(21)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 24: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 26: Ripper -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(27), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(27), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(31), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 28: Quills -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(29), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(29), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(34), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 30: Blazing Aura -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(31), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(31), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(33), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 32: Consume -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(33), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(46), Oblit-%Dam(46), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 35: Throw Spines -- Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(36), Posi-Acc/Dmg(36), Posi-Dmg/Rng(36), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37)
Level 38: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 41: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), RctvArm-ResDam(42), RctvArm-EndRdx(42), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(42), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(45), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45), LkGmblr-EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 47: Burn -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(48), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(48), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), Oblit-%Dam(50)
Level 49: Rise of the Phoenix -- RechRdx-I(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
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[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Fire)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Cold)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Energy)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Negative)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)[*]17.1% Defense(Smashing)[*]17.1% Defense(Lethal)[*]5.81% Defense(Fire)[*]5.81% Defense(Cold)[*]10.5% Defense(Energy)[*]10.5% Defense(Negative)[*]3% Defense(Psionic)[*]25.5% Defense(Melee)[*]8.63% Defense(Ranged)[*]8.63% Defense(AoE)[*]4% Enhancement(Heal)[*]26.3% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]52% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]4% FlySpeed[*]35.1 HP (2.62%) HitPoints[*]4% JumpHeight[*]4% JumpSpeed[*]Knockback (Mag -4)[*]Knockup (Mag -4)[*]MezResist(Held) 2.75%[*]MezResist(Immobilize) 6.05%[*]MezResist(Sleep) 4.95%[*]MezResist(Stun) 11.6%[*]MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%[*]4.5% (0.08 End/sec) Recovery[*]10% (0.56 HP/sec) Regeneration[*]5.67% Resistance(Fire)[*]5.67% Resistance(Cold)[*]4% RunSpeed[/list]
Hey, thanks for posting the build, Kruunch. I would make the suggestion not to slot Obliteration, as good as it is, in Consume. Go with something else like Efficacy Adaptor. The boost to the end drain will be a big deal, and no one should be taking Consume for just damage. You can also move one of those slots from Tough to an earlier armor power and put that Steadfast Prot +ResDam/Def earlier on so you can have the benefit of it. And if one can manage it, getting a Ragnarok Proc slotted in Throw Spines does WONDERS for survivability. Knocking down mobs is great to keep you alive...and the proc isn't too expensive to slot, either.
That is my two cents, otherwise that build is pretty good for an average cost IO build.
@Kalen on Virtue
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Hey, thanks for posting the build, Kruunch. I would make the suggestion not to slot Obliteration, as good as it is, in Consume. Go with something else like Efficacy Adaptor. The boost to the end drain will be a big deal, and no one should be taking Consume for just damage.
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The reason to go Obliteration over Efficacy Adaptor is for the defense set bonus (a tastey 3.75% melee) and Obliteration is recharge intensive whereas Efficacy Adaptor is only slightly above moderate recharge. The damage is just gravy. As far as for slotting for endMod in general, I tend to fight large packs of mobs where there is no shortage of fodder for Consume so it tends to crop up very rarely that I need to blow Consume on a single mob (and I pop a blue when those rare instances happen).
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You can also move one of those slots from Tough to an earlier armor power and put that Steadfast Prot +ResDam/Def earlier on so you can have the benefit of it.
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Good catch ... I should have stuck it in Fire Shield.
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And if one can manage it, getting a Ragnarok Proc slotted in Throw Spines does WONDERS for survivability. Knocking down mobs is great to keep you alive...and the proc isn't too expensive to slot, either.
That is my two cents, otherwise that build is pretty good for an average cost IO build.
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I agree .... I tend not to slot purples or rares unless absolutely essential to the build as, in my experience, the average player doesn't very often aspire to these.
Not many players look at Scrappers from a defensive point of view first (and I was one of these on my other Scrappers) however I found Spines/Fire to be so squishy and generate so much agro as to drive me nuts.
With the added positional defenses in I13 (I think?) and the corresponding addition/changes of certain IO sets the possibility of making a sturdier damage monster became easier to accomplish and this one has become one of the funnest AT combos I've played in CoH
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The reason to go Obliteration over Efficacy Adaptor is for the defense set bonus (a tastey 3.75% melee) and Obliteration is recharge intensive whereas Efficacy Adaptor is only slightly above moderate recharge. The damage is just gravy. As far as for slotting for endMod in general, I tend to fight large packs of mobs where there is no shortage of fodder for Consume so it tends to crop up very rarely that I need to blow Consume on a single mob (and I pop a blue when those rare instances happen).
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I can see where you're coming from with the Obliteration slotting. If one is really going hardcore about trying to get +def bonuses, that might be the right pick. But if you want something more cost effective and maybe more useful in a pinch (such as, you're fighting the last two mobs in a group and you're low on end) you can pop Consume and get a better bonus from it, which is where I see the usefulness.
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Not many players look at Scrappers from a defensive point of view first (and I was one of these on my other Scrappers) however I found Spines/Fire to be so squishy and generate so much agro as to drive me nuts.
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If one is playing a spines/fire, one is going to probably generate more AoE agro than anyone on the team. There is just so much damage output between two damage toggles, throw spines, spine burst, etc. I've found that over the course of running all kinds of TFs, teams, and the like that +defense isn't what saves my butt, it's smart positioning and using the terrain to my advantage. And one can have no better buddy on heroside than a Controller or Defender who can give you +Res or +Def buffs for survivability...Or a /kin so you're killing fast enough that it doesn't matter. 
@Kalen on Virtue
My Spines/Fire currently runs with about 34% Melee Defense and 55% S/L resists which makes him durable (if not Tanker like) enough to be able to take an alpha and still come up smiling.
This also means I hit the softcap on Defense with minor help.
I much prefer that mode of play to the "I hope we get the right kind of Defender/Troller/Tanker combo so I don't go splat every other pack". And as I said before, if you're juking and jiving a ton, you're really missing out on your full damage potential.
Oh and with Fiery Embrace and Build Up a Kin isn't adding all that much to my damage potential as I hit the damage cap fairly easily (now a Dark/Rad/Therm ... woohoo!).
Anyways if you have the influence (and its not an expensive build for a Scrapper) try it out on a second build. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at just how much more of a beast you become (from a "I ain't splatting a lot" standpoint). You'll notice that the slotting choices are geared around increasing Melee defense where possible which is the big one for this build.
About your PvP section, you may not know that your build can hardly be good at the same time for PvE and PvP.
The reason is that Air Sup/Kick/Boxing/Flurry deal twice more damage than your Spine attacks in PvP. Yes, this is how stupid i13 pvp is. It's the same issue for every melee AT, to be forced into power pools attacks.
You can still use Impale and Throw Spines from your primary though because they're range attacks, and BU ofc. But to be efficient in i13 PvP you need a complete different build using Pool Attacks.
Check it by yourself by setting your Mids on PvP mode (Options/Configuration/Effect&Maths/Show values for Players). And look at the base damage of each attack. No it's not a bug, Mids is pretty accurate there.
I think this precise point needs to be more known by the community. It's pretty gamebreaking in my opinion.
Pointy, Flaming Death - Spines/Fire Guide [I12]
Table of Contents
I. Introduction
II. Pros and Cons
III. Spines Powers
IV. Fiery Aura Powers
V. Recommended Pool Choices
VI. Epic Pools and You
VII. PvE Tactics
VIII. PvP Tactics
IX. Frequently Asked Questions
X. Builds of All Kinds
XI. Want to See It In Action?
I. Introduction
When I12 rolled around, I decided to start up a spines/fire scrapper. It was one of the first things that I decided I wanted to try to level. I spent a lot of time theorizing about just how effective it could be in PvP and PvE situations (especially farming). After taking it to 50 and trying out several different builds (with IOs, even), I've determined that it is incredibly potent PvP combatant in arena duels, zone PvP, and in PvE. With the correct slotting, one can farm efficiently and quickly, about as fast as any fire/kin that you have ever seen in action. This guide contains my opinions from experience as to what works well, as with my guide to the SS/Elec brute. You may find after taking a power that I had not necessarily recommended that you did in fact like it. So, without further ado, the guide.
II. Pros and Cons
Pros:
Spines is the most AoE intensive scrapper primary available. It comes with a PbAoE damage aura (quills) an AoE ranged cone (throw spines) a close ranged melee cone (ripper) and a PbAoE click (spine burst.) Most of the damage generated by spines is in fact lethal, the most resisted damage type in the game, but many attacks feature a small toxic DoT after the power hits your target.
Many attacks in spines feature a -speed component and a -recharge component. It is small, but noticeable when fighting mobs that these effects stack up used quickly, one right after another, especially the -speed.
Spines has two ranged attacks, impale and throw spines. Impale is great for tagging runners. Both attacks have a decent range.
Fiery aura is the most offensively oriented scrapper secondary available. You have many tools of destruction available to you, such as blazing aura (PbAoE damage aura), consume (which does a small amount of damage if it lands), fiery embrace (which is almost like a second build up), and the infamous burn, which even in its nerfed form is still potent if it is combined with the right tools.
The /fire secondary also features one of the best self heals in the game, healing flames. It is up often, and can heal up much of your health bar with the correct slotting. Healing flames also gives +15% toxic resistance for one minute, and the effect can stack.
/fire offers fantastic fire resistance.
Cons:
Spines is mostly lethal damage, and it is commonly resisted, as stated above.
Spines is not very single target intensive in comparison to other sets, such as broadsword or fire melee. It can still generate acceptable single target damage, however.
Fiery aura being the most offensively oriented secondary for scrappers, it has a few status protection holes, as well as resistance holes. Fiery aura is a resistance based set. There is no psi resistance, the cold damage resistance is pathetic even with temperature protection, and the toxic resistance can only be gained by using healing flames often. Fire only comes preloaded with Stun protection, Hold protection, and Sleep protection. It has no immobilize protection unless burn is used, and it has absolutely no knockback protection, which will necessitate -KB IOs, or Acrobatics. It also has no repel, confuse, terrorize, or enemy teleportation protection, nor does it have any slow protection.
Many people are on the fence about /fire's tier 9 power, Rise of the Phoenix. It is a self rez power which grants invulnerability for a short period of time. I firmly believe that if taking such a power is needed, and it needs to be used often, then, "ur doin it rong." Better powers can be taken to prevent death in the first place! This is an advantage that a set such as super reflexes or regen has over fire, their tier 9's actually add to your survivability (in short bursts.)
Some people think the spines are graphically ugly, or they look like flaming plantains. I wouldn't disagree with them when it comes to the latter.
III. Spines Powers
Note: Whenever I write 'recommended slotting' I am talking about what SOs I'd recommend to be slotted in a power.
Barb Swipe
Available at level 1
Melee, Minor DMG(Lethal), DoT(Toxic), -SPD, -Recharge
Recharge: Very Fast
Recommended slotting: 3 dam, 2 acc, 1 end
Recommendation: Barb Swipe is not worth taking. The animation is too long for the amount of damage it does. Skip this, grab lunge instead.
Lunge
Available at level 1
Melee, Moderate DMG(Lethal), DoT(Toxic) -SPD, -Recharge
Recharge: Fast
Recommended slotting: 3 dam, 2 acc, 1 end
Recommendation: Take this power instead of Barb Swipe at level 1. The animation/activation is quicker, and you'll see more damage out of it. Keep it for the long run, slot it up.
Spine Burst
Available at level 2
PBAoE Melee (Radius - 15 feet), Moderate DMG(Lethal), DoT(Toxic), -SPD, -Recharge
Recharge: Slow
Recommended Slotting: 3 dam, 1 acc, 1 end, 1 rech
Recoommendation: GET IT GET IT GET IT! This power becomes a staple in your attack chain. The damage is good...be careful when using it in a large group of mobs, you might draw more agro than you can handle. If you like to farm, if you like to do regular old PvE, or even some instances for PvP, this power is good.
Build Up
Available at level 6
Self +DMG, +To-hit (+100% dam, 20% ToHit)
Recharge: Long
Recommended Slotting: 3 Rech
Recommendation: This power helps hit enemies easier, and it boosts the damage of all of your attacks for ten seconds. Get this and use it before you launch any big attack, or chain of attacks. This will be used in conjunction with something like fiery embrace to boost your damage way up before hopping in and decimating a group.
Impale
Available at level 8
Ranged (40 ft. range), High DMG(Lethal), DoT(Toxic), Immobilize, -Recharge, -Fly
Recharge: Moderate
Recommended Slotting: 3 dam, 1 acc, 1 rech, 1 end
Recommendation: Impale is a fantastic attack, especially for attacking runners (which, with I12 seem to be quite common.) It's great for any attack chain, and is useful even in melee range. Take it, you'd be a fool not to, ESPECIALLY for PvP (where it is all about trowing impale!)
Confront
Available at level 12
Ranged (70 ft. range), Foe Taunt
Recharge: Fast
Recommended Slotting: 1-3 Taunt Duration
Recommendation: Seeing as how you are a /fire scrapper, you aren't the most durable guy in the world. Sure, it's nice to have the attention of a mob, but do you really need it unless you're defending some squishie? I'd recommend skipping this power unless you know you will be needing it often. Spines will draw plenty of agro from the smaller mobs which aren't being focused on by someone else...believe me.
Quills
Available at level 18
Toggle: PBAoE (Radius - 8 feet), Minor DoT(Lethal), Foe -Speed, -Recharge
Recharge: Slow
Recommended Slotting: 3 endurance first, 3 damage later
Recommendation: This is one of two damage auras that you will want to pick up to maximize your AoE damage potential. It's a nice toggle, can be kind of end heavy before slotting though, so get endurance reducers in it ASAP, and then worry about slotting for damage later on.
Ripper
Available at level 26
Melee (Cone) (range - 5 feet, 90 degree arc), High DMG(Lethal), DoT(Toxic), Knockback, -SPD, -Recharge
Recharge: Slow
Recommended Slotting: 3 dam, 1 acc, 1 end, 1 rech
Recommendation: Ripper is a great addition to your attack chain. The flipping animation looks cool as all hell, and being able to hit some tightly-packed mobs with it is a big bonus. The first time you pop build up and then crit with this power, you will smile. This attack is the hardest hitting one in all of spines.
Throw Spines
Available at level 32
Ranged (Cone - 90 degree arc, 30 ft. range), Moderate DMG(Lethal), DoT(Toxic), -SPD, -Recharge
Recharge: Slow
Recommended Slotting: 3 dam, 1 acc, 1 end, 1 rech
Recommendation: Yeah, it's your level 32 power. Yes, get it at level 32, it is an amazing attack to have. The power fires off quickly, and the cone seems to be absolutely gigantic for the range that comes with the power. Often times I find myself popping fiery embrace, build up, and then launching this off - it is beautiful thing seeing so many orange numbers pop up even before I hop into a group and get down to scrapping. Take this power!
IV. Fiery Aura Powers
Fire Shield
Automatically taken at level 1
Toggle: Self +Res(Fire, Lethal, Smash, Cold, Disorient)
Recharge: Very Fast
Recommended Slotting: 3 resistance
Recommendation: You don't have a choice when it comes to the first power in the set, but you'd have wanted this power anyway. A great deal of damage resistance comes from this power, and it is vital that it is slotted for resistance. It all adds up.
Blazing Aura
Available at level 2
Toggle: PBAoE, Minor DoT(Fire)
Recharge: Fast
Recommended Slotting: 3 end redux first, 3 dam later
Recommendation: It is tempting to get a damage aura early on, but I personally would not recommend getting any damage auras at all until after stamina is picked up, or even after consume is picked up. Do not pick one damage aura up before you have a chance to slot another. I'd hold off on grabbing this power until the late 20's or so. Get quills before you pick this up.
Healing Flames
Available at level 4
Self Heal, +Res(Toxic)
Recharge: Long
Recommended Slotting: 3 rech, 3 heal
Recommendation: /fire's heal is an excellent one, it being able on par with /regen's reconstruction. Take this power when it is available to you at level 4, at low levels it adds tremendous amounts of survivability, and this extends all the way to 50. I can't say that there isn't an instance where this power is not useful. Get it.
Temperature Protection
Available at level 10
Auto: Self +Res(Fire, Cold)
Recommended Slotting: 1 res...or alternatively, put a -KB IO in it if you must
Recommendation: For the amount of resistances that this power offers (7.5% cold, 22.5% fire), it is not worth taking. The fire resistances granted by this power will put you well over 15% over your 75% resistance cap for fire, and taking this power for another 7.5% cold resistance is pointless. Only take this power if you cannot find something more useful out there instead.
Plasma Shield
Available at level 16
Toggle: Self +Res(Energy, Negative, Fire, Hold, Sleep)
Recommended Slotting: 3 res
Recommendation: Take this at level 16, this is your other shield that will make sure you don't get mezzed by sleeps or holds, and it ups some important resistances. Plasma shield is staple for any character with fiery aura, whether it be brute, tanker, or scrapper.
Consume
Available at level 20
PBAoE (radius - 20 feet) Fire Dam, Self +End
Recommended Slotting: 1 acc, 3 rech, 2 endmod
Recommendation: This power will allow you to spam attacks a lot harder than you could before. If you have this slotted properly (and believe me, it does deserve all 6 slots), you will almost never run out of endurance, or you'll have a much harder time of it anyway. Consume is another staple /fire power, especially when running an AoE semi-end-heavy primary like spines. Take this at 22 or 24...after you get stamina.
Burn
Available at level 28
Location (PBAoE), Moderate DoT(Fire), Self Res(Immobilize)
Recommended Slotting: 3 damage, 1 rech (maaaaybe.)
Recommendation: Burn is by no means what it used to be. It is very nice to have a tool to grant immobilize protection if you don't already have something like combat jumping at your disposal. The area that this power affects could be considered small, so if you decide to grab this power, you need to keep two things in mind. One, you must be able to tag the most amount of mobs possible with this in order for it to be worth it. Two, you must be able to keep those mobs inside of the burn patch. If they are anything short of an AV, they will run. Read below on my take of epic power pools if you want further advice on tools to keep enemies inside the burn patch.
Fiery Embrace
Available at level 35
Self +DMG (125% for fire 20 sec, 100% for 10 sec everything else)
Recommended Slotting: 3 rech
Recommendation: It's just like having a second build up, but without the +ToHit component. It'll boost all of your damage by 100% for 10 seconds, and for all fire damage that you deal it will deal an extra 125% damage for 20 seconds. This power is very handy, especially for an AoE maniac like Spines/Fire. Take this power and don't look back. Use it often in conjunction with build up.
Rise of the Phoenix
Available at level 38
Self Rez, Special
Recommended Slotting: 1 rech
Recommendation: As I stated above, I don't believe in taking a power to resurrect yourself before you take a power which could have kept you alive in the first place. If you want this power for concept, take it. Otherwise, there are better things to be had.
V. [u]Recommended[u] Pool Choices
Fitness: You will want fitness for stamina. Health is a nice place to put things such as a Miracle: +Recovery, or Numina Unique. Stamina should be 3 slotted for endmod. It is your choice as to whether you pick up swift or hurdle, but personally, I favor hurdle in conjunction with combat jumping. It makes your scrapper amazingly versatile for hopping in and out of combat (more on this later under tactics.)
Leaping: Yeah, I like having super jump a lot on melee characters, I will admit. Combat jumping is an excellent place to put something like a LotG: 7.5% if you've got the cash, or a Karma: KB protection. A lot of people aren't willing to spend the money on KB IOs, so acrobatics is a power you may want to take. It is an invaluable tool, even after the huge nerf to it. If you take jump kick, I reserve the right to laugh at you.
Speed: Take Hasten. Slot it for 3 recharge. It's a fantastic power that will help all of your powers come back quicker (obviously). I can't stress how important it is enough. If you like super speed, pick that up too. Leave the rest of the junk.
Fighting: Pick Boxing or Kick, it doesn't matter - the real reason you are here is to pick up tough. Tough should be slotted with 3 resistances, it adds a lot to your survivability as a /fire scrapper. Pick up Weave if you'd like, if you're into stacking +def bonuses up. I picked up weave on my scrapper to slot a LotG: +7.5% and 5 pieces of Red Fortune. Take this pool if you're really into PvE, if you're looking at PvP however, there is an alternative you may want to grab.
Concealment: If you're into PvPing, get this pool, especially if you're doing duels and what not. You are here for phase shift, since it kicks butt. Get phase, and in stealth and invis, slot some IO sets/LotGs if you can afford it/spare the slots. I would NOT recommend this pool if you are going to be doing mainly PvE.
Leadership: I'd actually consider getting Assault for the added damage bonus on a spines/fire scrapper. It all adds up. Play around with it some, you might find you like the constant 10.5% damage bonus (and the people you team with might like it too.)
@Kalen on Virtue