Possible non-merger solutions

Miladys_Knight · 04-10-2008 01:15 AM

Ok so Posi still doesnt want to merge the markets.. but we know from Ex that there are disparities. So Im posting these with the hope that they may help things on the red side market or at the very least to give the devs a more solid reason to merge the markets instead of waffling on it.

Everyone should by now know that I am pro-merger but I think the most important thing is, that what should be an integral part of the game, function well for as many people that play as possible. If these ideas are implemented and solve the red side problems thats fine and dandy because then the markets wouldnt need to be merged.

So here is the list of potential problems that I see and a list of ways to fix them red side with out screwing them up blue side while applying the same changes to both sides so that a merger could still be a possibility if these ideas prove not to work out. Im also listing both the pros and cons of my proposed solutions as I see them.

1) Lack of supply. This can actually be broken down into some sub categories and I will do that.

A) Reserves. Reserves are in essence total amount of goods available on the market. The higher the population the larger the reserve, larger reserves turn over faster and larger reserves usually result in lower prices. Red side doesnt have enough reserves to hit the mystical critical population mark. The question is how to get more reserves with out increasing population or merging the markets. Total reserves in this case is the number of items available which directly relates to the number of players using the market and the total number of transaction slots available to each market user.

Solution increase the number of available transaction slots on both sides.

Pro - On the Red side this may get them up to critical mass. On the blue side there should not be much difference as they are all ready at critical mass. Limited slots means that players will only list the items they receive that are high to mid value and once they are out of transaction slots may simply vendor the rest. More transaction slots means that items that are mid to low value can be listed with out the risk of clogging slots that are needed for items a player feels are higher priority.

Con Transaction slots can be used as additional storage. This gives a greater ability to hoard which is all ready a problem on red side. I believe that the extra transaction slots may be used to hoard short term but this may not be as much of a problem on reflection. People who wish to increase their hoarding can all ready do so simply by using a second account and dual boxing to effectively double their storage.

Implementation I believe that between 5 and 8 extra transaction slots per character may be enough to push red side up to critical mass. This can be approached cautiously and slots can be doled out in stages to make a smooth transition rather than an abrupt one.

Thoughts on how to do this: add 1 extra transaction slot to each character per 10 levels. At the time of implementation a level 10 character would gain 1 more transaction slot than the current total, a level 20, two more etc., up to 5 extra slots for a level 50.

Add a SF/TF or trial on each side that has the BM/WW employee as the contact for the SF/TF/trial that should average between 1 hour to 1 and ½ hours to complete. This could be similar to the respect trial as it could appear in 3 different level bands against 3 different factions which could be arcane or tech droppers depending on what data mining says is required or dev preference. Give the usual reward table for this SF/TF/trial but add a selection (like choose respec) that would allow the player to permanently gain an additional transaction slot (3 slots in total).

B) Salvage this seems to be in short supply especially for arcane and especially in the tier 1 and tier 2 range but tier 3 seems to have a glut except for rares. XP smoothing seems to have exacerbated this problem since players now spend less time in these tiers which reduces the number of drops received in tier 1 and tier 2 but increases the amount of tier 3 salvage on the market.

Solution change the drop rates for salvage and make the changes higher in the low level bands. Currently the drop rates are identical in all tiers with the drop rates as following

Minion - 8%
Lieutenant/Sniper 10.64
Boss 25%

I propose the following changes

Level 4 -19 (tier 1 salvage only)

Minion - 12%
Lieutenant/Sniper 17.5%
Boss 40%

Level 20 25 (mix of tier 1 and tier 2)

Minion - 10%
Lieutenant/Sniper 15%
Boss 35%

Level 26 34 (tier 2 only)

Minion - 9%
Lieutenant/Sniper 12%
Boss 30%

Level 35 39 (mix of tier 2 and 3)
Minion - 8%
Lieutenant/Sniper 10.64
Boss 25%

Level 40 + (tier 3 only)

Minion - 6%
Lieutenant/Sniper 8%
Boss 17%

This could do much to solve the lack of supply in these levels. These numbers are examples only I recommend data mining to determine appropriate changes.

Pros Gives back a certain number of drops that were taken away by the introduction of XP smoothing and debt reduction. Players that do not use the market will have a little more influence to buy TOs and DOs in the level ranges where they tend to be cash strapped. Slightly reduces the glut of tier 3 salvage.

Cons XP smoothing may not be the only source of this shortage. Farming, Power Leveling and Side kicking/Lackeying may be large contributors to this problem that would not be remedied by this proposal.

C) Pool A and B recipes. Same problem as salvage. I recommend the same solution with an increase in the lower tiers and a slight decrease in tier 3. Data mine for appropriate figures.

Pros Gives back a certain number of drops that were taken away by the introduction of XP smoothing and debt reduction. Players that do not use the market will have a little more influence to buy TOs and DOs in the level ranges where they tend to be cash strapped. Slightly reduces the glut of tier 3 salvage.

Cons XP smoothing may not be the only source of this shortage. Farming, Power Leveling and Side kicking/Lackeying may be large contributors to this problem that would not be remedied by this proposal.

D) Pool C and D recipes These are a problem because the drop rate is nearly impossible to change as it is 100% each TF/SF. Quick TF/SFs like Katie Hannon and Virgil Tarikoss are run to rapidly gain a recipe while excessive TFs like Dr. Quarterfield give an identical reward giving rise to complaints of risk vs. reward. Since time is the real currency in CoX this is a valid complaint. There is also what is perceived to be a large amount of junk in Pool C that makes this time balance even worse. Some players believe that the Pool should be weighted to take into account the number of powers that use each set but I believe that I have a better idea that would solve or reduce several problems at once.

Solution Task force tokens. These would be salvage. They could be tradable like candy canes or non-tradable like vanguard merits. I believe that there could be possible problems with them being tradable but I believe that it is minimal. At the end of a SF/TF when the reward table comes up a set number of TF tokens would also be awarded. This number would be a permanent number that would be based on the data mined average amount of time it takes to run the TF in question (approximately 1 token per 30 minutes) and not the actual time of each individual TF (because it could be gamed) other factors could also be weighed in or taken into account when awarding TF tokens. Katie Hannon is a preferred TF on the blue side not only because it is one of the shortest TFs in the game but also because all the enemies drop arcane salvage in tiers 2 and 3 with out facing arcane mobs that mez.

As an example the Katie Hannon TF may drop no TF tokens. The Virgil Tarikoss SF and Ernesto Hess TF would each drop 1 token the Dr. Quarterfield TF would drop 16 tokens all of this in addition to the regular reward from the drop table at the end of the TF.

Once received, TF tokens could be redeemed by speaking to Statesman on the Blue side and Lord Recluse on the Red side. A certain number of tokens would get you a random roll on the TF rewards pool exactly as if you had clicked on rare recipe at the end of the TF/SF. As an example 3 tokens would give you a random roll with the level of the recipe also being random between 10 and 30 from the recipes available in that pool. 4 tokens would get you a random roll with the level of the recipe being random between 31 and 40 from the recipes available in that pool and 5 tokens would get you a random roll with the level of the recipe being random between 41 and 50 from the recipes available in that pool.

The same system could be used with Pool D (which has supply shortages on both sides) though I would recommend that the 2 salvages be different and non-interchangeable.

Pros supplies more recipes in Pool C and D and supplies a greater proportion of them at lower level since it takes fewer tokens to get a recipe in the lower tiers. This will somewhat balance the out leveling of desirable recipes due to XP smoothing. It also makes lower level Pool C recipes available through drops to players that have out leveled that tier. Some what balances out the disparities in time require to receive a reward that exists between blue side and red side with out requiring the addition of a great deal of new content. Eliminates the need to weight the drop tables since getting crap for a long TF is one of the perceived problems of the current system and this solution allows more rolls for completing longer TFs.

Cons none that I can foresee.

E) Teaming Penalties these are decreased drops due to team size and are caused by pauses for recruitment, travel required, and defeat speed (large teams may be defeating larger mobs faster but much of the damage may be over kill). They are also caused by the random number generator having the ability to award the same person repeatedly while not reward other players on the team.

Solution increase the base mob drop percentages based on team size (perhaps by ½% per additional teammate). Add a streak breaker to the drops. Maintain the randomness but cause it to exclude the person who received the last drop from this times random roll.

I.e.: on a 3 man team if player 1 receives a drop then the next time a drop is rolled only player 2 or 3 could receive it. If in that case it is player 3 then the next drop could only be received by player 1 or 2 etc.

F) Power leveling This reduces the amount of pool A and B recipes because the player that is side kicked/lackeyed is receiving drops that are not in the tier that they are in. This reduces supply in that tier and increases it in tier 3 and gives the player being power leveled drops that are potentially more valuable in terms of total influence than if they had been playing normally in their actual tier.

Solution code drops so that drops received are based on actual player level rather than mob level. If the team is clearing out carnies for example the level 50 would be receiving prophecies and spirit thorns while the side kick would be receiving lament boxes and luck charms the side kicked/lackeyed player would also be receiving level 10 recipes worth a couple hundred inf rather than 100,000 inf.

Pros creates items in the tiers that have shortages by forcing drops into native level. Has the potential to reduce the amount of inf RMTrs have to sell by reducing the amount they earn while being paid to power level. Allows the mobs to be coded as simply arcane, tech or mixed and could allow different mobs in the same group to be coded differently. Rikti conscripts could be coded as tech while the Rikti Magus could be coded as arcane for example and CoT mages could be arcane while CoT guides and defenders could be tech or mixed.

Cons does not assist in the production of Pool B recipes in any tier since Power Levelers reset their maps rather than complete the mission. Possibility of large amounts of recoding being required.

G) Farming support toons receive fewer drops than multiple pet using and AoE heavy toons. Blue side ATs have a larger number of AoEs available to them compared to Red side ATs. This gives the blue side a higher supply of salvage and Pool A drops in the same amount of time. Farming also reduces the supply of Pool B recipes on both sides since farming maps are reset rather than completed.

Solutions - Code drop percentages based on type of attack that defeated the mob. Mobs defeated by single target attacks would have an increased chance of a drop while mobs defeated by an AoE would have a reduced chance of producing a drop.

Pros Could slow down RMTrs inf production by reducing the amount received per unit time. This would somewhat balance the disparities of drops received by red side as compared to blue as well as support toons compared to AoE mowing machines

Cons Will upset players that play AoE heavy and multiple pet using ATs specifically for the reason of receiving the additional drops. Does not assist in the production of Pool B recipes in any tier since farmers reset their maps rather than complete the mission. Possibility of large amounts of recoding being required.

2) Lack of teaming opportunities This is especially prevalent on the red side and a solution would provide more benefit on red side than blue and narrow the gap some more. There have been several good proposals on making teaming easier. I recommend implementing one of them.

3) AT Utility - Going hand in hand with lack of opportunities to team is the fact that stalkers are not as useful on a team while Corruptors and Dominators progress slower solo. Master minds and Brutes work well in both circumstances and account for 2/3s of all villains in play (that is from my population spot checks.) Stalkers need a buff while teaming in PvE and Corruptors and Dominators need a buff while soloing in PvE.

-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
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Talen Lee · 04-10-2008 01:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
F) Power leveling This reduces the amount of pool A and B recipes because the player that is side kicked/lackeyed is receiving drops that are not in the tier that they are in. This reduces supply in that tier and increases it in tier 3 and gives the player being power leveled drops that are potentially more valuable in terms of total influence than if they had been playing normally in their actual tier.

Solution code drops so that drops received are based on actual player level rather than mob level. If the team is clearing out carnies for example the level 50 would be receiving prophecies and spirit thorns while the side kick would be receiving lament boxes and luck charms the side kicked/lackeyed player would also be receiving level 10 recipes worth a couple hundred inf rather than 100,000 inf.

Pros creates items in the tiers that have shortages by forcing drops into native level. Has the potential to reduce the amount of inf RMTrs have to sell by reducing the amount they earn while being paid to power level. Allows the mobs to be coded as simply arcane, tech or mixed and could allow different mobs in the same group to be coded differently. Rikti conscripts could be coded as tech while the Rikti Magus could be coded as arcane for example and CoT mages could be arcane while CoT guides and defenders could be tech or mixed.

Cons does not assist in the production of Pool B recipes in any tier since Power Levelers reset their maps rather than complete the mission. Possibility of large amounts of recoding being required.

[/ QUOTE ]This is a brilliant idea, and also removes one of my current problems playing my 50s - If I exemp down, I divorce myself from any chance at getting purples.

Heroes, Villains ♦ Reviews ♦ Retrospect

Natsuki · 04-10-2008 03:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This is a brilliant idea, and also removes one of my current problems playing my 50s - If I exemp down, I divorce myself from any chance at getting purples.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think.. the suggestion is a one-way street.

Lower the level of the drops the lackey/sidekicks can receive, but not increase the level of the drops a malefactor/exemplar gets.

Honestly, I think it's a terrible idea unless they make drops rolled for each player rather than rolled per kill then split between the team. (This is why they currently can't scale the level to the player. The drop is determined when the mob is killed and then randomly given to a player)

Damage Proc Mini-FAQ

Just noticed Damage Proc Mini-FAQ wasn't working with new forums, it's been updated.

Folonius · 04-10-2008 03:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Reserves. <...>
The higher the population the larger the reserve, larger reserves turn over faster and larger reserves usually result in lower prices
<...>

[/ QUOTE ]
This cannot be proven without actually increasing the population, or number crunching, and discovering where the Production Possibility Frontier (PPF) would lie with an increased population. We do not have access to those numbers and statistics. It could very well be that with an increased population, there would be less items available on the market.

However, I veiw market slots as potential income, and not as storage space. Each slot is worth 30-50% roughly of items I buy and flip on the market. If I buy somthing for 1mil influence, I'll sell it for 2mil. More enhancement slots would increase this sort of activity, which I wouldn't be opposed to.

I would suggest more SF's that gives other rewards other than pool C drops. The heroes have more TF's available to them, which gives more potential for pool C drops.

[ QUOTE ]

B) Salvage
<...>

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree and /signed

[ QUOTE ]

C) Pool A and B recipes Same problem as salvage. I recommend the same solution with an increase in the lower tiers and a slight decrease in tier 3. Data mine for appropriate figures.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why a decrease in tier 3?

[ QUOTE ]

D) Pool C and D recipes
<...>
Quick TF/SFs like Katie Hannon and Virgil Tarikoss are run to rapidly gain a recipe while excessive TFs like Dr. Quarterfield give an identical reward giving rise to complaints of risk vs. reward. Since time is the real currency in CoX this is a valid complaint. There is also what is perceived to be a large amount of junk in Pool C that makes this time balance even worse.
<...>
Solution Task force tokens. These would be salvage.
<...>
A certain number of tokens would get you a random roll on the TF rewards pool exactly as if you had clicked on rare recipe at the end of the TF/SF.
<...>

[/ QUOTE ]
These longer TF's that heroes have can make the difference between the hero and the villian market. All of the heroes TF's that are available are needed for badges, and that is a good enough reason for people to run it at least once on their toons. They are also good ways for people to team up with others and know they will get a decent team instead of the common PUG where everyone wipes every 10 minutes. If more SF's were added villian side to promote this more, there would also be an increase in Pool C drops.

As for the solutions, It pretty much gives more than one Pool C recipe for completing a TF. I'm not sure it would be a good idea to give more than once recipe for completing a TF. Depending on how it would be implemented, Tokens vs. number of missions maybe, it could be exploited to where someone can figure out which TF gives the most token vs. the time it actually takes to complete and just solo it via. dual boxing. Some TF's can actually be solo'd on the hero side effectivly as well.

I have two suggestions instead of the tokens, the first would be to increase SF's villian side to bring it up to the same number of TF's heroes have.

The second would be to eliminate some of the "Junk" you mentioned, and base it off the number of missions on the TF. It would make the selection process a little more difficult when choosing Pool C recipes though, but allow people to remove recipes from the Pool C drops available for the longer TF's to create less randomness, or just be able to remove allt he recipes the nobody wants. If a TF has 20 missions, allow them to remove 10 recipes from the random list. If the TF has fewer than 5 missions, don't allow the players to alter the list. It will give more incentive to run those longer TF's for a chance at a better drop.

[ QUOTE ]

E) Teaming Penalties

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed and /signed

[ QUOTE ]

F) Power leveling
<..>
Solution code drops so that drops received are based on actual player level rather than mob level. If the team is clearing out carnies for example the level 50 would be receiving prophecies and spirit thorns while the side kick would be receiving lament boxes and luck charms the side kicked/lackeyed player would also be receiving level 10 recipes worth a couple hundred inf rather than 100,000 inf.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed and /signed .... My only concern would be for implementation, as I doubt it would be easy to do.

[ QUOTE ]

2) Lack of teaming opportunities This is especially prevalent on the red side and a solution would provide more benefit on red side than blue and narrow the gap some more. There have been several good proposals on making teaming easier. I recommend implementing one of them.

3) AT Utility - Going hand in hand with lack of opportunities to team is the fact that stalkers are not as useful on a team while Corruptors and Dominators progress slower solo. Master minds and Brutes work well in both circumstances and account for 2/3s of all villains in play (that is from my population spot checks.) Stalkers need a buff while teaming in PvE and Corruptors and Dominators need a buff while soloing in PvE.

[/ QUOTE ]
Teaming is alot harder on red side. Anything that can improve it would be good. As for buffs for stalkers, it is the only villian toon I have. I don't have problems in PvE with him on teams. I can generally take out the heavy hitters in groups so the rest of the teams don't have to worry about it. The only issues I have are when I'm on a PUG that won't let me get into position and say "Ready!"

If the stalker remained invisible to the mobs while the rest of the team attacked, and were unaffect by AoE attacks until he became visible, that would help.

I also think a greater inf sink would help. I posted some ideas for critique and some people posted some other things they would like to see as an inf sink, and at the same time adding more content to the game.

Jupiter_M · 04-10-2008 08:08 AM

Interesting ideas. My experiences with the bm lead me to different conclusions about the cause of villain problems, however.

[ QUOTE ]
A) Reserves. Reserves are in essence total amount of goods available on the market. The higher the population the larger the reserve, larger reserves turn over faster and larger reserves usually result in lower prices. Red side doesnt have enough reserves to hit the mystical critical population mark. The question is how to get more reserves with out increasing population or merging the markets. Total reserves in this case is the number of items available which directly relates to the number of players using the market and the total number of transaction slots available to each market user.

Solution increase the number of available transaction slots on both sides.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd love to see this get implemented. Not that it would actually help out the portions of the market which are anemic, but 3 more transactions slots per toon would greatly increase my profits as I can move more product.

WoefulKnight · 04-10-2008 08:27 AM

For Pool C recipes and highly desired recipes there is no reserve. I posted a snapshot of volumes in the BM and WW in the Market Thread that shows that both sides have significant shortages.

Protector Server
Woeful Knight (BS/Regen/Body Scrapper)
Kevin Christian (MC/FF/Primal Controller)
SilverCybernaut (Eng/Dev/Munitions Blaster)
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Y'ru Glowen (Rad/Rad/Psy Defender)

EvilRyu · 04-10-2008 08:28 AM

In all honesty I only see the problem for both sides is just pool c rares being borked. If they had scaled the drops based on powers available in the game we would not be in this mess right now or at least it wouldnt be so bad. I do think for blue side in the early levels with the insane luck charm prices might get in check if the new zone has arcane mobs that arent too mez heavy. As for the end game salvage costs and such, I think it is reasonable now because the amount of time you put into hunting to get said salvage is almost about equal to getting the inf to pay for it at lvl 50. The only players that are truely at a disadvantage are those who play support sets such as empathy or force fields (non-masterminds). Now I do like the suggestion of a team salvage streak breaker thingie because that is definately something the teams need to keep it fair. Also I say they should up drop rates a little on teams as well.

Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator

Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!

Jupiter_M · 04-10-2008 08:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
In all honesty I only see the problem for both sides is just pool c rares being borked.

[/ QUOTE ]

My experiences on the bm are leading me to a different conclusion.

WoefulKnight · 04-10-2008 08:42 AM

I did a sampling last night of Pool Cs Prime recipes(16 of 68) on both BM and WW and found both sides to be similarly in trouble. I posted the results in the Official Market response thread.

A vast majority of Pool C recipes on both sides had no sales in the last week. A significant number of Pool C recipes on both sides had no sales for 2 weeks or more. Prices on both sides for most recipes were within 10% of each other. Blue side had more supply and more demand percentage-wise.

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Y'ru Glowen (Rad/Rad/Psy Defender)

EvilRyu · 04-10-2008 08:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In all honesty I only see the problem for both sides is just pool c rares being borked.

[/ QUOTE ]

My experiences on the bm are leading me to a different conclusion.

[/ QUOTE ]
You can get the stuff either way, you just are restricted to mostly lvl 50 stuff or you gotta pay thru the nose to get it. The stuff is mostly there. I was mostly talking about the stuff in the lower ranges. I tend to buy all my procs and uniques at the lowest possible level so the toon that gets it can get more use out of it on the way to lvl 50.

Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator

Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!

Agent_Kendt · 04-10-2008 10:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Once received, TF tokens could be redeemed by speaking to Statesman on the Blue side and Lord Recluse on the Red side. A certain number of tokens would get you a random roll on the TF rewards pool exactly as if you had clicked on rare recipe at the end of the TF/SF. As an example 3 tokens would give you a random roll with the level of the recipe also being random between 10 and 30 from the recipes available in that pool. 4 tokens would get you a random roll with the level of the recipe being random between 31 and 40 from the recipes available in that pool and 5 tokens would get you a random roll with the level of the recipe being random between 41 and 50 from the recipes available in that pool.

The same system could be used with Pool D (which has supply shortages on both sides) though I would recommend that the 2 salvages be different and non-interchangeable.

Cons none that I can foresee.

[/ QUOTE ] Heres a Con for you - in the lower pools there is far less crap therefore it increases the chance of you getting a Miracle, Numinas or LoTG unique and by those odds the lower pools should therefore demand more tokens then the higher pools.

Telecommuter · 04-10-2008 10:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
1) Lack of supply. This can actually be broken down into some sub categories and I will do that.

A) Reserves. Reserves are in essence total amount of goods available on the market. The higher the population the larger the reserve, larger reserves turn over faster and larger reserves usually result in lower prices. Red side doesnt have enough reserves to hit the mystical critical population mark. The question is how to get more reserves with out increasing population or merging the markets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this portion. If the devs only want to do ONE solution at a time, I'd pick a solution that addressed this issue.

And, in my opinion, the "black market problems" are just symptoms of a bigger problem -- the low population of CoV players. The upcoming issue 12 may revitalize the population, but it needs to stay at a steadier pace.

The sad part is that I don't think the CoV population will ever hit that "critical population" mark.

Fulmens · 04-10-2008 11:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
In all honesty I only see the problem for both sides is just pool c rares being borked.

[/ QUOTE ]

I still don't have a feel for the recent vill market, so here's another data point: PBAOE Dam/Rech from level 30 to 40. I checked Multi-Strike [generally cheap and works well, but not a big set bonus winner] and Scirocco's [ooh, trendy]. These are both Pool A.

RED SIDE
... Multi-Strike:
... ... recipes- 22 for sale, 1 bid.
... ... crafted- 5 for sale, 0 bid

... Scirocco:
... ... recipes- 160 for sale, 0 bid.
... ... crafted- 12 for sale, 6 bid

BLUE SIDE:

... Multi-Strike:
... ... recipes- 9 for sale, 3 bid.
... ... crafted- 8 for sale, 0 bid

... Scirocco:
... ... recipes- 224 for sale, 13 bid.
... ... crafted- 16 for sale, 9 bid

That's stuff that is fairly high supply [drops from critters] and is in fairly high demand.

The heroside market has MORE but not by ridiculous amounts.

Pool A (two data points) looks OK.

I suspect in the case of something higher-usage and/or lower-supply there'd be a critical failure of V-side.

... maybe I should check Doctored Wounds or something? Bah, later.

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WoefulKnight · 04-10-2008 11:44 AM

Here are my numbers for Pool Cs Blue and Red side from last night. Both side suffer from supply issues.

<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Date - April 9 20 - 25 26 - 30
Hbid Hsale Vbid Vsale Hbid Hsale Vbid Vsale
Aegis: +Psionic & Mez Res X X X X 63 0 53 2
Decimation: Acc/End/Rech X X X X 9 178 37 0
Devastation: Dam/Rech X X X X X X X X
Devastation: Chance to hold X X X X X X X X
Gift of the Ancients: +7.5% Run 30 0 10 6 6 0 34 0
Impervium Armor: +Psionic Resist 45 1 29 1 26 0 12 1
Luck of the Gambler: +7.5% Recharge X X X X 169 0 87 1
Mako's Bite: Dam/Rech X X X X X X X X
Mako's Bite: Chance for lethal X X X X X X X X
Miracle: +Recovery 231 0 50 1 128 1 32 1
Numina's Convalescence: +R & +R X X X X X X X X
Positron's Blast: Dam/Acc/End 124 0 28 1 94 1 15 1
Positron's Blast: Chance for energy 101 1 45 0 42 1 59 0
Pulver Fisticuffs: Acc/Dam/End/Rech 24 0 11 0 X X X X
Scirocco's Dervish: Dam/Acc/End 23 0 8 0 36 0 19 0
Scirocco's Dervish: Chance for lethal 99 0 37 1 59 1 20 0
677 2 218 10 632 182 368 6

31 - 35 36 - 40
Hbid Hsale Vbid Vsale Hbid Hsale Vbid Vsale
Aegis: +Psionic & Mez Res 42 3 12 0 34 7 8 0
Decimation: Acc/End/Rech 0 91 66 0 17 122 41 0
Devastation: Dam/Rech 44 3 12 1 7 0 4 0
Devastation: Chance to hold 40 19 28 1 22 42 36 1
Gift of the Ancients: +7.5% Run 28 23 51 1 125 5 74 1
Impervium Armor: +Psionic Resist 46 6 24 1 114 5 29 1
Luck of the Gambler: +7.5% Recharge 359 0 101 1 91 1 63 3
Mako's Bite: Dam/Rech 11 32 30 0 3 11 22 0
Mako's Bite: Chance for lethal 20 13 32 0 1 41 15 1
Miracle: +Recovery 95 1 21 0 118 3 45 0
Numina's Convalescence: +R & +R 195 3 59 1 109 4 51 1
Positron's Blast: Dam/Acc/End 57 1 71 1 81 5 29 0
Positron's Blast: Chance for energy 58 1 52 0 69 1 45 0
Pulver Fisticuffs: Acc/Dam/End/Rech X X X X X X X X
Scirocco's Dervish: Dam/Acc/End 63 2 27 1 36 0 34 0
Scirocco's Dervish: Chance for lethal 60 7 13 2 73 12 17 0
1118 205 599 10 900 259 513 8

41 - 45 46 - 50
Hbid Hsale Vbid Vsale Hbid Hsale Vbid Vsale
Aegis: +Psionic & Mez Res 54 8 18 0 179 38 63 2
Decimation: Acc/End/Rech X X X X X X X X
Devastation: Dam/Rech 21 0 16 0 202 12 32 4
Devastation: Chance to hold 20 79 13 1 72 117 29 43
Gift of the Ancients: +7.5% Run X X X X X X X X
Impervium Armor: +Psionic Resist X X X X X X X X
Luck of the Gambler: +7.5% Recharge 56 0 42 0 251 12 107 9
Mako's Bite: Dam/Rech 7 9 8 0 44 14 37 9
Mako's Bite: Chance for lethal 12 40 13 0 15 54 43 58
Miracle: +Recovery X X X X X X X X
Numina's Convalescence: +R & +R 65 2 46 0 363 16 102 6
Positron's Blast: Dam/Acc/End 36 0 23 0 215 10 107 4
Positron's Blast: Chance for energy 27 2 18 0 71 21 39 5
Pulver Fisticuffs: Acc/Dam/End/Rech X X X X X X X X
Scirocco's Dervish: Dam/Acc/End 64 0 16 0 150 5 59 5
Scirocco's Dervish: Chance for lethal 99 8 18 2 106 33 41 29
461 148 231 3 1668 332 659 174

Hbid Hsale Vbid Vsale
Totals 5456 1128 2588 211
% of Total 67.8% 84.2% 32.2% 15.8% </pre><hr />

Protector Server
Woeful Knight (BS/Regen/Body Scrapper)
Kevin Christian (MC/FF/Primal Controller)
SilverCybernaut (Eng/Dev/Munitions Blaster)
Apixie OhNo (Fire/Fire/Pyre Tanker)
Y'ru Glowen (Rad/Rad/Psy Defender)

Catwhoorg · 04-10-2008 11:44 AM

Doctored wounds and Thunderstrike

@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617

Jupiter_M · 04-10-2008 12:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You can get the stuff either way, you just are restricted to mostly lvl 50 stuff or you gotta pay thru the nose to get it. The stuff is mostly there. I was mostly talking about the stuff in the lower ranges

[/ QUOTE ]

I was also talking about the stuff in the lower ranges. My experiences have shown me that they higher lvl stuff is doing just fine on the bm.

Folonius · 04-10-2008 12:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Doctored wounds and Thunderstrike

[/ QUOTE ]

You wont get a good reading from them currently ....

Catwhoorg · 04-10-2008 12:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Doctored wounds and Thunderstrike

[/ QUOTE ]

You wont get a good reading from them currently ....

[/ QUOTE ]

WHAT DID YOU DO RAY ?

@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617

Fulmens · 04-10-2008 12:42 PM

... which is in itself, potentially, a facet of the problem.

Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.

So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.

Manic_Aggressive · 04-10-2008 12:51 PM

I would also like to add the following for consideration:

Re-evaluate the recipe ingredients. Many "High dollar" recipes share ingredients with lesser value recipes- this is a very bad thing for the lower demand recipes, as the inflated crafting cost will possibly drive what would have been demand for a lower cost alternative below 'critical mass'.

You can't buy something on the market if no one want to put it up on the market.

And I'm sure most people don't blind bid for lower demand recipes- I would posit that most blind bids are for something that is in high demand, and just sells so fast there were no unfilled sales or unfilled bids. Most want to bid on something they already know is there and waiting to be bought.

There needs to be sufficient incentive to put those items up in the first place.

Big_Chill · 04-10-2008 12:52 PM

I don't think its any potentially about it. That is about it, the whole vending/deletion for space/profit crap. That is lost supply to the market and only lends more to the problem than resolving it.

RabbitSkull · 04-10-2008 01:17 PM

There are 5x as many recipes for sale out of those selected on Hero side, are there 5x as many people on Hero side?

Liliaceae · 04-10-2008 02:53 PM

Milady's Knight:
[ QUOTE ]
2) Lack of teaming opportunities This is especially prevalent on the red side

[/ QUOTE ]

Folonius:
[ QUOTE ]
Teaming is a lot harder on red side.

[/ QUOTE ]

These statements really mystify me.

If you mean "Villains team less", then I definitely agree. But that's not because teaming is harder, it's because soloing is vastly easier. All villain ATs are adept soloers, and the increase in performance of a team is often outweighed by the hassles of organizing and coordinating a team. Compare that with the gimpy solo ATs and forced teaming for efficiency you have on hero-side, and you can see where the problem lies.

Of course this feeds into the whole Pool C issue. Villains are not accustomed to teaming, so running SFs does not come naturally. The majority of the level 50 villains I see have Binder of Beasts and maybe Servant of Recluse, but none of the other SF badges.

Having a couple of SFs with minimum size of 1 for villains (make them difficult) would help immensely.

COTCaveHater · 04-10-2008 03:20 PM

My preferred solution is this: If supply drops or demand for an item goes up, the price should rise. If an item becomes oversupplied then the price should go down.

The lack of supply villainside could quickly and easily be remedied by sellers raising their prices on hard-to-get items.

So if you are about to put an item on the BM and it is the only one that's going to be for sale DOUBLE THE HIGHEST LAST 5 PRICE.

LadyMoon · 04-10-2008 03:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The lack of supply villainside could quickly and easily be remedied by sellers raising their prices on hard-to-get items.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the problem is actually hoarding because noone wants to wait 2 weeks to buy something when they need it, why would getting more money that it would still take 2 weeks to spend increase the desire to sell an item rather than hoard it?

Currency is valuable because it replaces the barter method of exchange of goods. But it's only valuable because you can generally trade it for the goods/services you want. If you can't actually find the item you want for sale then having 1 billion inf instead of 500 million doesn't really change this.

Plus on my low level characters I tend to see prices barely above vendor level, often with 0 bids. If I hadn't read these boards, I might have just decided that the red market was a complete waste of time and saved/vendor whatever drops I got.

Plus - someone putting up a LotG for 125 million doesn't make me any more able to get one to drop and actually increase the supply. In fact, it tells me I'd better save any I get because the price will be outrageous so I'm better just keeping them around in case I need one later.