There was not a raid Wednesday evening. It's unclear if there will be enough interest on Saturday.
Also, there is supposed to be a Villain raid on Sunday, I hope we can get the people together for that.
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GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
We had the hive filled at the start time, and a very quick smooth raid heroside on Saturday. Here's hoping the same happens tomorrow with the villains.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
OK, our villain raid failed. Not enough melee damage for the yellows, in part because of few brutes and fewer thermals for support and LOTS of MMs.
Had an idea. I think that two MMs could hold aggro on a Yellow. A team of six MMs and two kins could handle the back three yellows, leaving only three for the brutes to deal with. Might be worth trying if we're in a similar situation.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
OK, I'll be the bad guy/girl here and say it. And believe me, I don't want to.
Sadly, I don't think we can run a functional raid with more than sx MMs in zone. Yes, we had some support and backup problems with the brute team, but most of us couldn't even move to attack because of the lag.
I have sent petitions about the lag/targeting issues. And although the general response is that our graphics drivers are old, the real problem is that zone and all the individual elements that have to be "drawn" in the raid. When you add an increasing number of elements with the MM pets, the zone becomes so overloaded that the players can't see things or even move. Yes, it's true. I asked a dev.
Also, even with MMs on a yellow, I don't think they can kill it. Sandy was running some numbers on that, but I don't know how it comes out. We can check that later.
I'm going to get back to this topic again later along with some targeting points, but I wanted to respond in this thread now. This raid does work with the strategy we developed and the tweaks we have when the AT mix is slightly off. However, we continually see that the bigger the imbalance, the more likely the raid can't even get off the ground.
The leaders are working on ways to address those issues we can. But the raiders have to try to work with us too.
Andra
Devoted, heart and soul, to Angry Angels and Jaded Angels
Yes, Andra has it. We had a total imbalance of ATs last night, with 15 MM's in the zone and almost a complete lack of Stalkers. This meant massive lag, inability to target, and lack of spike damage to defeat mitos.
The strategy was written with consideration that there would be a balance (eight) of each AT show up, and to leverage their strengths and allow them to play their part. Hence the MM's pet stream lets them use their primary assets (pets) instead of just being secondary buffbots.
We may have to switch MM's in excess of the first six over to just using their secondaries on the assault teams (not summoning any pets at all) if the situation repeats itself. This isn't fun for the MM's, and won't completely solve the problem either. Each of those buffing-MM's would be taking the space of a missing AT (Stalker in the case of last night) and the lack of that AT's strength will impact the raid. Last night it led to not being able to actually take down mitos.
The villain raids have brought up a weakness in the current raid: reliance upon a balance among the raiders. Hero-side, we seem to naturally avoid this, as everyone has come with a near-even balance of ATs. We seldom have more than a 2-4 overage of any one AT.
Here's the hard truth: I wouldn't be prepared to immediately call a raid off after seeing the attendance numbers; but if the situation arises next time, I think we should consider strongly urging attendees to relog with alts of a specific (requested) AT. At least eight of those MM's needed to bring something else to the raid; if they don't have another raid-capable alt, then they should probably leave and make room for what the raid needs.
I don't like this solution at all. It's completely against the spirit of what we're trying to accomplish. However, unless the step is taken, the raid won't happen and we'll just have wasted all of the attendees' time anyway. After a few of these failed attempts, people may start avoiding them. That might also fix the problem, since begging for a few specific ATs to come is easier to do than turn away people of the wrong AT who are anxious to raid.
Aside from changing how MM pets are used (they've simply been shown to be too fragile to hold their own in a tactical situation except as fodder), I'd love to hear more suggestions how we can adapt to the reality of the current situation. I'm somewhat at a loss short of the drastic measures mentioned above.
Any way you look at it, villain-side has issues unrelated to the raid itself that are creating problems and failed attempts. The few red-side raids we've done with a properly balanced raid force have gone great, proving the method is sound and fun. We've tried adjusting raid strats around current attendees, but factors beyond this have created problems that are not so easily solved as changing strategies in a guide.
-Sandolphan
"When heroes fail, the Angels will save you."
MASTERMIND NUMERIC KEYPAD PET CONTROLS
HAMIDON NUKE RAID GUIDE
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Also, even with MMs on a yellow, I don't think they can kill it. Sandy was running some numbers on that, but I don't know how it comes out. We can check that later.
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The intention of MMs on a yellow isn't to kill it. Most henchmen use ranged attacks (though I will send my Bruiser to a yellow because he does melee damage). The intention is to hold aggro so that you don't need brutes on them. Last night, we could have had the six brutes going 4-1-1 on three mitos while the back three yellow mitos are attacking an endless stream of henchmen.
Clearly, if someone has a choice between their level 50 MM and a level 50 non-MM, they should choose the latter. But many people, like me, either bring an MM or they can't come.
How much of the lag is the number of actors involved (player characters and MM henchmen) and how much is the environment? If we weren't slogging through water, would it make a difference?
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
Bah!
Sorry I couldn't be there on my Thermal. Had some family business to attend to.
This has happened before (excessive MMs) which threw off the balance. That raid failed also.
Beyond the 6 MMs required for pet streaming, this is beginning to sound like too many MMs (above 6) are a recipe for auto-fail. 
It was the real lack of spike damage that was hurting us. Before Ruptured showed up later, I was the only Stalker on Bane until Andra asked me to help her with the Brute teams. (Later, a single team as we lacked support to cover two teams). It was taking way too long to take down the yellows, and most of the time the brutes died and a retreat had to be called because of loose mitos.
I'm not sure how it'd work, but perhaps a MM spike team if we have too many of them? Not as much quick damage as a Stalker spike, but with the debuffs (especially from Poison) and the constant damage, it might work as a nice alternative than just using MM pets as fodder.
No, it wouldnt.
There's Hami raids?
ur ALL bad
Question: Have cages/confinement fields ever been used on Mitos? I was wondering if you could take blues and greens out of the equation using those, during the yellow phase?
DestineeFable's Guide to an MSTF run (fixed!)
My latest AE madness
After last night's raid it seems that some modifications were made to Hami. It seemed like it was much harder to pull the Mito's attention away from the initial tank sent in the goo. Every single tank that went in to taunt Hami first had their regen floored within 5 seconds and was dead within 10, even WP tanks. The second tank had a much easier time of it.
Also, we were griefed by people pulling in GMs while we fought others but we maintained composure and got'r done. Good Job Virtue.
DestineeFable's Guide to an MSTF run (fixed!)
My latest AE madness
do u still do this and how do i join the channle?
Yes. Hero raids Wednesday at 8pm eastern, Saturday at 6pm eastern. Villain raids are once per month, first Sunday at 6pm eastern, though for the past few months we've also done third Sunday (which may be an official timing).
Things are organized in VU2008, just join the channel.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
k thanks
I need to go and run Hami again.... Its been a while since I last went to a hami raid
Here is the link for an updated version of our hami raid strategy, http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...umber=11139883.
Some quick questions I didn't see answered in the raid guide...
1. How effective are debuff powers on mitos/hami? If you stacked enough Rad or Dark defenders, could you get their ToHit down to 5%?
2. Can mitos/hami be hit with detention field or black hole?
Just looking at what mechanics could be best manipulated to give heroes an edge, since resistance, defense, and regen don't appear to be effective, from what I have read.
Many thanks!
Hellwraith
From the guide linked above:
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Spillover Spikers
Floating Support
[/ QUOTE ]
This is my area of expertise. I bring "oddball" sets and unfortunately have to self-categorize and sometimes assist from off-team. Yellows are perma-rooted (always take critical damage from Containment), have high ranged and aoe type defense but no other defense (so attacks such as Mind Control and Fulcrum Shift hit fine), are vulnerable to autohits (a well aimed Disruption Arrow will debuff them), and are vulnerable to streakbreaking (a well aimed Freezing Rain will debuff them eventually), so if you've got any of these things, that's another way to contribute.
[ QUOTE ]
1. How effective are debuff powers on mitos/hami? If you stacked enough Rad or Dark defenders, could you get their ToHit down to 5%?
[/ QUOTE ]
I know at least some of the attacks are autohit. I suspect -tohit isn't any real help, but it's worth testing and trying. Resistance debuffs have been proven to work on all the monsters, all the mitos, and the nucleus -- if they hit. No other debuffs are currently called for in the strategy, but some good testing with good results can change that completely.
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2. Can mitos/hami be hit with detention field or black hole?
[/ QUOTE ]
I doubt it, but again, absolutely worth trying. One way Hamidon "cheats" is by bypassing Untouchable status -- in other words, Hamidon can "kill" Phantom Army. But that doesn't mean Hamidon necessarily bypasses OnlyAffectingSelf status if you get enough people stacking phases on it.
It's good you're thinking outside the box! Hamidon breaks the rules in unusual and extremely counter-intuitive ways, so it takes serious sideways thinking to come up with new techniques.
Hey something that happened at the Saturdy 8/9 raid that I meant to mention before but forgot.
Without planning, we were able to take down 2 Blues during the final Yellow mito phase. I'm not sure how that happened but I suspect we had an abundance of blasters. From what I could tell we only had 4 or 5 non-melee per blue distracting the Greens away from healing the Yellows but we may have just had too much ranged damage for them to compensate.
DestineeFable's Guide to an MSTF run (fixed!)
My latest AE madness
I've been wanting to do more Hami raids, but I'm never sure who to bring. For those that do this frequently, which would be more useful: a Claws/SR scrapper or an Ill/Kin controller?
Kinetics brings more utility. Damage buffs are good, recharge buffs/slow resistance is good, stun and knockback protection is good. If you've got Blind well slotted, even better -- holds help take down greens.
That said, occasionally more scrappers are desired, so if the Hive reaches about 30 total heroes visible but fewer than about 5 scrappers, you can switch to claws to fill the gap. Eviscerate, spin, and shockwave are not tagged AoE or ranged, so all of your primaries except focus and confront bypass yellow mito defenses. Focus is not tagged melee or AoE, so will work on the blues. Achilles Heel resistance debuff proc on slash is very helpful. As for SR, I have a feeling you can do without some, maybe all, of the toggles, but Practiced Brawler will be vital.
Umm...did our updated Hero-side Hami raid guide get nuked?
FYI the updated Earth Controller pet can take Hami aggro away from a Tanker taunting at range. They must have boosted his taunt duration/amount substantially when they updated his AI.
Better question is, will there be a raid Wednesday evening..
We shall soon see.