Looking for Players to help with guide link posts
By
Black_Specter,
Posted on: 2007-01-10 08:18 in Player Guides
will there be a "dibs" style thing so that multiple people don't run through doing the same one only to have the quickest typer get the coveted title?
Liberty
My 50s:
Hero: Armor Assassin (scrapper), Cross Dresser (scrapper), Surly Seaman (blaster), Defensive End (Tank), Rad Rhino (Cont)
Villain: Beast Infection (Corr), Sweet Zombie Jesus (MM), Milk Weasel (Stalker), Orgullo (MM), Agent Eris (Crab)
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Let me explain further. For example, say someone is willing to help update the Kheldian Guide Post. They would write me at Lighthouse@ncsoft.com and let me know they are willing to help with that. In turn, I'll email them back the source text of that post. That way they will have all the UBB links and everything.
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Too much work. The easy way:
1. The player-editor who is updating the Kheldian Guide Post goes to Kheldian Guide to Guides thread hits the quote button on the first post of that thread (with all the links) and, presto, gets a copy of the post with all the UBB tags.
2. The player-editor edits the post and posts it. The updated version is now the last post of the thread.
3. The player-editor emails you, Lighthouse, that the Guide has been updated and can be found at the end of the guide-thread.
4. You, Lighthouse, go to that player-editor's post and hit 'quote'. You now have the version with all the UBB tags. You can then cut and paste it into the first post using your special mod powers to edit 'uneditable' posts.
5. This also allows other players to see the player-editor's edits and to make additions and corrections.
If there is any player-editor for whom this process is too difficult to comprehend... then they shouldn't be doing web based editing.
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As a side note, again, I strongly recommend a better way to house all this information: A wiki based database of player guides that will mesh with an online manual. Have NCSoft host the wiki database so that you have ultimate control of content (as you do with the forums). This way, all users can contribute (and correct) information that will stay fresh and easy to access. Also, you can get the Cryptic people to review certain articles that serve as game-manual articles for correctness.
Just imagine if the Prima Guide for Issue 7 was an editable online wiki database. All those errors in it would be quickly corrected by the players (with the devs' confirmation), and everyone would have instant access to the latest and correct information!
Look at it this way: A bulletin board forum is a great place for discussion and Q&A. It is not a good tool for the posting of relatively static information in which many people can contribute to and corroborate on and update. Use the right tool for the job: a wiki database.
Come on, Lighthouse, you know you want NCSoft and CoH/V and its website to be a leading edge, model community support resource. Think of the online buzz. Think of the awards. Best part is, you get all this done with volunteer services (just look at all the volunteer work put into the guides). [OK, you need to get your web gurus to set it up in the first place, but after that... it'll run itself.]
Just throwing it out there.
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
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will there be a "dibs" style thing so that multiple people don't run through doing the same one only to have the quickest typer get the coveted title?
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Yeah, if there is that kind of response where it becomes an issue, then I'll go off of who comes through first with an edited link post that we would use.
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Too much work. The easy way:
1. The player-editor who is updating the Kheldian Guide Post goes to Kheldian Guide to Guides thread hits the quote button on the first post of that thread (with all the links) and, presto, gets a copy of the post with all the UBB tags.
2. The player-editor edits the post and posts it. The updated version is now the last post of the thread.
3. The player-editor emails you, Lighthouse, that the Guide has been updated and can be found at the end of the guide-thread.
4. You, Lighthouse, go to that player-editor's post and hit 'quote'. You now have the version with all the UBB tags. You can then cut and paste it into the first post using your special mod powers to edit 'uneditable' posts.
5. This also allows other players to see the player-editor's edits and to make additions and corrections.
If there is any player-editor for whom this process is too difficult to comprehend... then they shouldn't be doing web based editing.
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Good plan thanks for the input. We'll likely proceed that way after I can test out if players can get the UBB tag information for the existing Guide Post.
As for the Wiki style implementation, yup that'd be great. However I'm a realist and am not confident we could pull something along those lines off in the near term. So, getting the existing system dusted off and up to speed is our current target.
Lighthouse
Community Relations Manager
If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.
The Wiki idea is the best idea I have heard in a long time regarding guides and posts.
Yes, you can get all the tags from hitting 'Quote' on Cuppa's first post. Then all that needs to happen is editing that with all the new stuff. Or something. I can code like anything, but hell if I know how to do the simplest things on a forum.
I also second the Wiki idea. We already have a player-admin'd Paragon Wiki, maybe talking to them and combining forces to add the guides? It would save re-inventing the wheel of wiki.
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As for the Wiki style implementation, yup that'd be great. However I'm a realist and am not confident we could pull something along those lines off in the near term. So, getting the existing system dusted off and up to speed is our current target.
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o,o speaking of Wiki's.. was wondering, would there be any links to outside guides and sources? I'm particularly thinking about Paragonwiki when I say this.. they have a number of helpful pages on ingame items, and are always constantly expanding on them!
I am Sleepy! Hear me Yawn!!
Veni, Vidi, Dormivi!
-Alpha Kitty of the Guardian chapter of the Legion of Catgirls
Never forget--Sleepy could conquer the world, if she could just stay awake long enough. =) -Llanwe
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As for the Wiki style implementation, yup that'd be great. However I'm a realist and am not confident we could pull something along those lines off in the near term. So, getting the existing system dusted off and up to speed is our current target.
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Why not simply work with the existing community network and look at a collaboration with the paragonwiki guys to move the guides section out of these forums entirely?
There's a wealth of great City of ... information out there on fan sites, why not work on building links with those sites instead of trying to work around the problems of hosting game guides on a forum?
I've finished updating the Corruptor Guides and sent it, so no need for anyone else to start that one.
I do however fully agree with moving the guides to a wiki. It would be extremely easy to keep updated and get started, since likely most of us would add all the guides for you.
Liberty
My 50s:
Hero: Armor Assassin (scrapper), Cross Dresser (scrapper), Surly Seaman (blaster), Defensive End (Tank), Rad Rhino (Cont)
Villain: Beast Infection (Corr), Sweet Zombie Jesus (MM), Milk Weasel (Stalker), Orgullo (MM), Agent Eris (Crab)
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As for the Wiki style implementation, yup that'd be great. However I'm a realist and am not confident we could pull something along those lines off in the near term. So, getting the existing system dusted off and up to speed is our current target.
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Why not simply work with the existing community network and look at a collaboration with the paragonwiki guys to move the guides section out of these forums entirely?
There's a wealth of great City of ... information out there on fan sites, why not work on building links with those sites instead of trying to work around the problems of hosting game guides on a forum?
[/ QUOTE ]My guess would be because then it is not merely a fansite anymore. Which could have legal issues that they would have to go through and edit out to prevent wackjob companies like Marvel going crazy 
.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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o,o speaking of Wiki's.. was wondering, would there be any links to outside guides and sources? I'm particularly thinking about Paragonwiki when I say this.. they have a number of helpful pages on ingame items, and are always constantly expanding on them!
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I dropped Tony at the ParagonWiki forums a line. If anyone knows the gents who run that site, please forward my email Lighthouse@ncsoft.com Thanks!
Lighthouse
Community Relations Manager
If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.
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I do however fully agree with moving the guides to a wiki. It would be extremely easy to keep updated and get started, since likely most of us would add all the guides for you.
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There are also disadvantages to running a wiki - disadvantages rarely visible to the user.
1- Wiki's are very intensive of server resources. Mediawiki (the most popular and well known) is notorious for being a server hog.
2- Adding a wiki means adding another program that has to be maintained, updated, secured, etc... etc... Its not as simple as just installing it and letting it run.
3- Mediawiki does not natively allow edits to be queued for approval.
There's also a couple of social aspects that are disadvantages;
4- Because it is can be edited - it often is edited, which sometimes improves the article - but often leads to nothing but slow degradation. (This eats editor/approver time because each edit has to be carefully checked.)
5- Wiki's are hideously unsuited for housing multiple articles that are really just slight differences of opinion. (I.E. the multiple guides to x/y AV.) They are even worse at trying to combine those multiple articles into one.
Wikis are very popular, very versatile, and very powerful. But wikis are a hammer - and not every problem is a nail.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
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Wikis are very popular, very versatile, and very powerful. But wikis are a hammer - and not every problem is a nail.
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Sig'd (not here, but I frequent a number of tech forums)
This post brought to you by the Thunderfire Campaign to Out-Weird the Internet.
Score so far: Thunderfire-0, Internet-157893678
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5- Wiki's are hideously unsuited for housing multiple articles that are really just slight differences of opinion. (I.E. the multiple guides to x/y AV.) They are even worse at trying to combine those multiple articles into one.
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Mostly agree with this, although I think the purpose of a Wiki would be to host the links to the guides, not the guides themselves.
That said, MediaWiki's definitely overkill... there's gotta be something (Wiki or other) for link databases out there, though.
(And I want one for my own purpose, so I may just go a-huntin'.)
Proprietary brain. Place in shred bin only.
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o,o speaking of Wiki's.. was wondering, would there be any links to outside guides and sources? I'm particularly thinking about Paragonwiki when I say this.. they have a number of helpful pages on ingame items, and are always constantly expanding on them!
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I dropped Tony at the ParagonWiki forums a line. If anyone knows the gents who run that site, please forward my email Lighthouse@ncsoft.com Thanks!
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I think I have his email, and will pass this along.
The Dark Blade
"I've felt your mouse on me before, you perv...." - Troy Hickman
Paragon Wiki
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5- Wiki's are hideously unsuited for housing multiple articles that are really just slight differences of opinion. (I.E. the multiple guides to x/y AV.) They are even worse at trying to combine those multiple articles into one.
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Mostly agree with this, although I think the purpose of a Wiki would be to host the links to the guides, not the guides themselves.
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Most of the replies in here imply, to me, that they want the wiki for content. (Difficulties with wikis aside - a 'locked' wiki used by the Devs to maintain content isn't a bad idea.)
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That said, MediaWiki's definitely overkill... there's gotta be something (Wiki or other) for link databases out there, though.
(And I want one for my own purpose, so I may just go a-huntin'.)
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Linky .
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
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(And I want one for my own purpose, so I may just go a-huntin'.)
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Linky .
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I... think I like you.
Proprietary brain. Place in shred bin only.
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I dropped Tony at the ParagonWiki forums a line. If anyone knows the gents who run that site, please forward my email Lighthouse@ncsoft.com Thanks!
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Done.
-- Lady T
I don't have an alt problem. I like trying new things.
VirtueVerse ♦ City Info Tracker ♦ ParagonWiki
What if, instead of putting the articles on a Wiki, we just put the guide-to-guides on the Wiki and had them point to the corresponding topic on this board?
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I dropped Tony at the ParagonWiki forums a line. If anyone knows the gents who run that site, please forward my email Lighthouse@ncsoft.com Thanks!
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Wow, I had a bunch of messages when I got home today. That's cool, though, it's why I post my e-mail address freely (tonyv@pcfreepress.com), and it makes me feel loved when people use it. 
Obviously, I think the wiki idea is a humdinger, and I'm not going to even pretend like the comments below are unbiased.
I think it would be a fantastic place to store guides. There are already several guide-like articles in the Paragon Wiki. For example, there's an article on the Warburg Missile Launch Mission that I think is really thorough. The Tree of Thorns Respecification Trial article is also a good example of a very guide-like article. The coverage of the events (e.g. Winter Event 2006) is usually top-notch, too.
Here are some advantages I see of posting guides in a wiki, whether or not it's the Paragon Wiki:
<ul type="square">[*]It's editable by the community, so typos and mistakes get corrected relatively quickly.[*]For the same reason, changes are reflected very quickly, because the guides wouldn't have to be maintained by a single person.[*]Most wiki software offers great formatting capability, but in a manner that is standardized enough so that everyone doesn't just go nuts.[*]Basic wiki markup, the kind used to write a relatively simple article or guide, is really easy to learn. Even if your guide comes out ugly, it will likely be "prettified" by someone else soon after you post it.[*]Guides posted in a wiki can link to other articles. For example, a guide that talks about Stalkers can directly link to topics such as Assassin's Striking, Placating, and so on. Or a guide about Mastermind pets can link directly to the petsay slash command. (Yes, I know, you can link like that in forum posts too, but it's easier in the wiki, and really, that's kind of what the wiki is designed for!)[*]Most wiki software allows you to have user pages (such as mine) where users can post their own personal information, which gives them a feeling of personalization. Also, users' contributions are easily accessible for recognition of their efforts. That's a great incentive to contribute![/list]Whether or not the Paragon Wiki gets any kind of official nod, I do hope that folks will stop by and check out what we have to offer. The site's writers and editors have worked tirelessly for months and months for nothing but an occasional "Wow, you people are amazing" from me, and I use it myself extensively as a resource while I'm playing. It's also 100% ad-free and will always remain so.
I've told Lighthouse that this weekend, I'll work on posting a guide or two that I use here on the forums in the wiki to see what he thinks of how it looks. I'll post a follow-up here and see what you all think, too.
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
^^ I find it kinda funny the number of Paragonwiki's article writers have ended up in this thread so far.
o,o I love the wiki's, but one comment I think should be mentioned that they wiki nei sayers missed.. If its open editing, you'll have all sorts of ppl trying to add a page about their sg to it.
I am Sleepy! Hear me Yawn!!
Veni, Vidi, Dormivi!
-Alpha Kitty of the Guardian chapter of the Legion of Catgirls
Never forget--Sleepy could conquer the world, if she could just stay awake long enough. =) -Llanwe
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I've told Lighthouse that this weekend, I'll work on posting a guide or two that I use here on the forums in the wiki to see what he thinks of how it looks. I'll post a follow-up here and see what you all think, too.
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Okay, I've converted Curveball's bind guide, one that is definitely on the top of my list, to an article in the Paragon Wiki. Now comes the fun part, where you all do the wiki thing and edit it. I've already edited it some, correcting typos, adding a few notes about how command can have underscores, and trying to make them just a bit more article-like. I've removed Curveball's references to "me" and "my" since as a wiki article, it's a community effort, but I have left the references to his characters in out of deference to the fact that he did originally write it. He's also identified as the original author on the article's discussion page. I also added CuppaJo's Working in the Game Industry guide.
If folks want to start adding their guides to the wiki, I highly suggest registering an account so that it's credited correctly, and create your own user page where you can list your guides, characters, and whatnot.
As for a "Guide to guides," I think the best implementation would be to use the wiki's built-in category mechanism. I started a heirarchy, which currently looks like this:
- Player Guides
- - Commands and Binds
- - Game Industry Guides
Obviously, as more guides (and categories for such guides) get added, the hierarchy will grow to mirror that of the Guide to Guides thread. I also added a Guide to Guides article to serve as a master Table of Contents to make navigation of guides easier. If you add a guide to the Paragon Wiki, please make a point of tagging it with the correct [[Category:Player Guides (subheading)]] tag and adding it to the Guide to Guides! (Or, if you don't, don't panic. I'm sure someone else will come along after you and do it for you.) Also, please, please, please make sure that you give the original source of the guide on the article's Talk page! I want credit given where credit is due!
Let me know what you think, good or bad. Derekl is right, not every problem is a hammer. But in this case, I honestly believe that a wiki is exactly the right tool for this job.
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
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As for the Wiki style implementation, yup that'd be great. However I'm a realist and am not confident we could pull something along those lines off in the near term. So, getting the existing system dusted off and up to speed is our current target.
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Why not simply work with the existing community network and look at a collaboration with the paragonwiki guys to move the guides section out of these forums entirely?
There's a wealth of great City of ... information out there on fan sites, why not work on building links with those sites instead of trying to work around the problems of hosting game guides on a forum?
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My guess would be because then it is not merely a fansite anymore. Which could have legal issues that they would have to go through and edit out to prevent wackjob companies like Marvel going crazy .
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Not only that... but believe it or not, fan sites actually disapear and their URLs go dead. In fact, the frequency of this occurance is so common that any would-be web manager worth his salt will attempt to get all of those disparate sources and articles copied over and hosted on his site in order to insure that the resources remain available to his patrons.
Level 50s:
BlackSpectre, Dark Defender (Guardian)
Thorin, Invul/Axe Tank (Justice)
Volcano Juice, Fire/Stone Tank
Professor ?, Mind/FF Controller
Stone Forge, Stone/Fire Tank
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Fan sites actually disapear and their URLs go dead. In fact, the frequency of this occurance is so common that any would-be web manager worth his salt will attempt to get all of those disparate sources and articles copied over and hosted on his site in order to insure that the resources remain available to his patrons.
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First of all, it's really ironic that you would say that. I wasn't the first person to come up with the idea of a City of Heroes wiki. Some guy (I think he called himself "Auz," if I recall correctly) registered the first domain name I wanted, cohwiki.org, and had set up MediaWiki and started running a CoH Wiki a few months before I thought, "Hey, a CoH wiki would be really neat!"
After adding a bunch of articles, though, it dawned on me that he was really just running it as a little side project. Before I started entering articles, no one had edited anything in months. I thought to myself that before I really invested a lot of time and effort into something that might just disappear one day, I should host it myself so that I can make sure it doesn't, so I can't really defend against the argument that the Paragon Wiki might just one day disappear by saying something like, "It won't, I promise!" (But just in case that actually will work, it won't. I promise.)
What I can do is try to mitigate the risk of that happening. Here are some ideas that I'd be willing to run with, if Lighthouse wants to go with it:
<ul type="square">[*]I can give someone at NCsoft access to the filesystem underlying the wiki and to its database. If they really want, I can give them access to my daily backups so that if the site does die some day, they can host it themselves or give it to someone else as appropriate. I can also add someone at NCsoft to have access to the domain name through my registrar, so that if I get hit by a proverbial bus and the wiki is still going strong when the name expires in 2012, NCsoft can renew it.[*]NCsoft can host the site. I'd like to continue having admin access to it so that when I think, "Hey, that would be neat," I can make it happen. But if they're set against it, that's okay, too. I've said all along that the Paragon Wiki is a community resource. My main goal is for it to simply exist and remain as open and accessible as it is. I don't want to be the be-all and end-all of the wiki, though. I've already designated several other admins, including one who I've set up as I've suggested above who has administrative access to the wiki's filesystem.[*]Everything could pretty much stay as it is. If someone is worried that the wiki might disappear tomorrow, they can save a copy of their guides and/or articles and post them somewhere else should their fears come to pass. Not the most elegant solution, but if all else fails, it would do.[/list]Oh, and by the way, cohwiki.org was eventually handed over to Stratics. I don't think it was updated very often, and if you check it now, the wiki's not available. Glad I decided to host it myself!
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
I'm not sure exactly what I'm supposed to do, but I did put a lot of time and effort into writing this Guide to Grandville. I keep reading Lighthouse's posts, and I don't know what I'm supposed to do with it, but I would like to offer it for inclusion into the Guide to Guides. I looked, and there are no guides about Grandville.
If posting a link to it here isn't enough (which I suspect it won't be), what am I supposed to do to get it noticed?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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EDIT: Changed the process for updating at 10:30 AM Jan. 10th (see below) to use a post submission method instead of e-mail.
EDIT: I added a list of guide link posts that have been updated. I also removed the reference about using code tags. They aren't needed and just make the thread get all wonky.
Also, to clarify, my request is for people to update the posts of links that point to player guides, not editing the actual guides themselves.
So, for those of you keeping score from home, you might remember my earlier post calling for guides to be updated since we were working to update the many posts on the forums that link to all these fine Guides. Problem is, it is a pretty serious chunk of time to get all those posts up to snuff and well I won't hide behind excuses so I'll just say that it hasn't been done.
The thing is, it's a real shame to not have all these excellent resources available and easily found. I don't want my busy schedule to hold that up. So, in thinking about how best to tackle this I wanted to put the problem in front of you, our most excellent forum community and ask for volunteers.
What I'm looking for are people who are willing to take a category or two and create a revised version of the post containing all the new links.
Let me explain further. For example, say someone is willing to help update the Kheldian Guide Post. What they would do is the following:
1. Visit the guide post they want to update.
2. Click the "Quote" button, just like they are replying to that post and wanted to quote it. This will give the person editing the original posts UBB code (with links and all that).
3. Using that content and UBB code, create a new post that is updated. This would include links to any new guides and any new information, or orginization they feel is appropriate for that Guide post.
4. Post their revised version as a reply to the end of the thread where the guide link post is at.
5. Send a Private Message to Lighthouse letting me know you have posted an updated guide link post.
6. Then, we'll take a look at it and if the revised guide post looks good, then edit the original post and paste in your revised version and give you credit in that post as the "Official Guide Post Editor."
7. Once we use your revision, we will send you a reply private message and you will then have the option to have your title changed to "Official guide Post Editor."
Thanks in advance to anyone who is willing to help with this!
Guide Link Posts that have been done:
Corruptor by milk_weasel
Dominator by Necrosis
Guide to Guides by milk_weasel
Blaster by milk_weasel
Masterminds by Posion_Pill
Brutes by HAK
Stalkers by milk_weasel
Controllers by Muad_Dib
Defenders by milk_weasel
Kheldian by milk_weasel
milk_weasel is on a roll!
Lighthouse
Community Relations Manager
If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.