Good info.
The waiting until x3/x8 never was as appealing as x2/x7 because it's the same principle idea, but not all of your enhancers will always combine.
The way I always go in a form of what you have as the hybrid, which changes according to what SO drops I had received over the levels. Basically, at x2/x7 I would take my sections that has 3 slots in it, and combine them all into one, hopefully making it a ++ (which would be an even SO now) and buy two more. Then when I level again I would combine that ++ with the new enhancer.
great guide nice graph i always waited the extra level replacing 25 sos with 30 at level 28 instead of the 27 because i felt like i was wasting money replacing instead of combining looks like might not be a waste after all
Nice information. I also always waited and combined at 28, 33 etc.. I guess I will be using the hybrid method from now on.
one thing i do is if i'm planning on using a respec soon, i wait until *2 or *7 so i can just sell all my SOs back and re-buy
I'm a hybrid user myself..though I would wait until the x2 or x7 level to buy. Reading this though I can see the merits of what you suggest. Will give that one a try and see how it goes.
Respeccing for sale at full price is my favorite strategy, but as you say timing matters.
Thanks for doing the math!
The robot revolt begins!
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A Short Guide to Enhancement Strategies
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Appreciate the work, and useful to know, but possibly a little /too/ short :P I had a bit of trouble following excatly what your methods were...
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There has been much debate on the boards as to the merits of replacing at x2 and x7 levels, versus combining at x3 and x8 levels. I examined both using statistical means, as well as a three other strategies.
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I'm going to use the following format for my examples:
O = empty slot.
X = old enhancement, at shop bought level (eg. 30 or 45).
Y = new shop bought enhancement (eg. 35 or 50).
X+ = old enhancement upgraded once.
X++ = old enhancement upgraded twice.
So, replacing at x2/x7 levels means going from:
XXX
to:
YYY
Combining at x3/x8 means going from:
XXX
to:
Y+Y+Y+
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These are Greening up – the best baseline you can get with purely shop bought and 3 enhancement slots – uses 9SO’s every 5 levels so whilst the best techncailly its only for the stupidly cash rich.
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I think this means going from:
X++X++X++
to:
Y++Y++Y++
yes?
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Hybrid – which is intermediate between the replace and combine – basically at the x2/7 level you combine two of your slotted enhancers, and buy one new one – then at x3/8 you combine two new ones with the other slots
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At x2/x7 you do:
XXX -> OX+X -> YX+X
Then at x3/x8 you do:
YX+X -> YY+Y+
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4SO hybrid – well this strategy uses 4 slots instead of 3 (downside), but gives enhanced performance and reduced variability over the 5 level cycle. At x2/7 combine to give 2 spaces and replace, then at x3/8 combine.
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This is where you lose me :P
x2/x7:
XXX -> OOX++ -> YYX++
x3/x8:
YYX++ -> YYY+
That's still only 3 new SO's...where's the 4th get used?
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Historically, my strategy has always been the hybrid, but with the increase in respecs thanks to the vet rewards, I'll probably be doing a full sell and rebuy at every x2/x7 level from 22.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Psychoti
"....so I headbutted the blind chick."
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[ cruise / casual-tempest.net / transference.org / xenogamous.com / wytedragon.net / quantam sufficit ]
To be pedantic for the sake of thoroughness: Your notation and examples all assume 100% combination success. Another way of looking it is that a + indicates an enhancement that you've tried to combine, whether it was successful or not. I am going to stick with that assumption for ease and consistency of notation.
Most of your understanding was correct. I'll mention only the ones where your understanding deviates from mine (and, I'm pretty sure, Catwhoorg's).
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Combining at x3/x8 means going from:
XXX
to:
Y+Y+Y+
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To be pedantic again: For any enhancement level after you switch to a new enhancement type (12 for DOs for most people, 22 for SOs for most people), it means going from:
X+X+X+
to:
Y+Y+Y+
This is because those Y+s that you made become X+s for the purposes of your next enhancement event. Does that make sense?
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4SO hybrid - well this strategy uses 4 slots instead of 3 (downside), but gives enhanced performance and reduced variability over the 5 level cycle. At x2/7 combine to give 2 spaces and replace, then at x3/8 combine.
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This is where you lose me :P
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I'll explain more in-depth.
One of Cat's underlying assumptions was that he was testing for a power that is optimally 3-slotted. The most accessible example I can think of is Stamina. The most efficient use of slots is to add 3, because due to Enhancement Diversification any more than 3 SOs in this power run into such burdensome diminishing returns that you're better off putting those slots into other powers.
Unfortunately, this means that there is an oscillating potency for your powers. At the levels you enhance, you go up in potency, then gradually diminish over time as your level gains in relation to the level of the enhancements. So there is an every-five-levels step up in effectiveness with steps down for the levels in between (the stepping varies with different strategies, but this one describes the "replace at x2/x7" strategy).
But if you have slots to spare and you don't want Stamina's effectiveness to fluctuate, you can add a fourth slot to Stamina and put an SO in there. This effectively eliminates fluctuation, because your four SO enhancements, even at their weakest, are still, taken together, at the ED cap.
So what it looks like is:
x2/x7:
X+X+XX -> X++X++OO -> X++X++YY
x3/x8:
X++X++YY -> Y+Y+YY
And, of course, the Y+Y+YY becomes X+X+XX in the notation of the next enhancement event, which explains our starting point at x2/x7.
Scrap
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To be pedantic for the sake of thoroughness: Your notation and examples all assume 100% combination success. Another way of looking it is that a + indicates an enhancement that you've tried to combine, whether it was successful or not. I am going to stick with that assumption for ease and consistency of notation.
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Yeah - it wasn't necessary for my points, so I didn't bother mentioning it :P
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[ QUOTE ]
Combining at x3/x8 means going from:
XXX
to:
Y+Y+Y+
[/ QUOTE ]
To be pedantic again: For any enhancement level after you switch to a new enhancement type (12 for DOs for most people, 22 for SOs for most people),
[/ QUOTE ]
I actually edited in a comment while previewing to explain I'm assuming the first round of upgrades in each for simplicity, but then posted the original comment (with spelling mistakes and everything) by mistake. Doh :P
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One of Cat's underlying assumptions was that he was testing for a power that is optimally 3-slotted. The most accessible example I can think of is Stamina. The most efficient use of slots is to add 3, because due to Enhancement Diversification...
[/ QUOTE ]
snippage of "I'm not that dumb" stuff :P
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But if you have slots to spare and you don't want Stamina's effectiveness to fluctuate, you can add a fourth slot to Stamina and put an SO in there.
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Ah, gotcha 
, that's the bit I didn't follow, 'cos I was thinking in general terms where you might be mixing several enhancements in a power (say the default attack slotting acc, rchg, end, dmg, dmg, dmg) where you don't have the space to do this.
Yeah, I know he says "4 slots" in the original post - my mind just read that as "4 SO's" for some reason :P
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Psychoti
"....so I headbutted the blind chick."
|
[ cruise / casual-tempest.net / transference.org / xenogamous.com / wytedragon.net / quantam sufficit ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ah, gotcha , that's the bit I didn't follow
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By the way, I wasn't trying to suggest that you're dumb, I just generally figure it's easier to explain everything in a guide post. Plus at work I am rewarded for documenting assumptions, so it's an easy habit for me to fall into ;-)
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I was thinking in general terms where you might be mixing several enhancements in a power (say the default attack slotting acc, rchg, end, dmg, dmg, dmg) where you don't have the space to do this.
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Yes. And that kind of slotting also limits how much you can execute the efficiency-optimal blended x2/x7 + x3/x8 strategy, because it relies on combining enhancements at the x2/x7 levels, which is only possible if you have 2 of the same enhancement slotted into a power. So your standard attack slotting would only free up one slot (maybe two if you combined all the damage SOs) at the x2/x7 levels, while acc, end and rchg would all have to wait until x3/x8. That's actually how I do it, and the big step up in effectiveness for me tends to be at x3/x8 levels.
Scrap
A Short Guide to Enhancement Strategies
There has been much debate on the boards as to the merits of replacing at x2 and x7 levels, versus combining at x3 and x8 levels. I examined both using statistical means, as well as a three other strategies.
These are Greening up the best baseline you can get with purely shop bought and 3 enhancement slots uses 9SOs every 5 levels so whilst the best techncailly its only for the stupidly cash rich.
Hybrid which is intermediate between the replace and combine basically at the x2/7 level you combine two of your slotted enhancers, and buy one new one then at x3/8 you combine two new ones with the other slots
4SO hybrid well this strategy uses 4 slots instead of 3 (downside), but gives enhanced performance and reduced variability over the 5 level cycle. At x2/7 combine to give 2 spaces and replace, then at x3/8 combine.
Math Section here Skip if you want the bottom line
All of these assume Schedule A the principles are valid for any class of enhacers.
Replacing at x2/7 has a mean bonus of 94.7 with a Standard deviation of 3.8
Combining at x3/8 has a mean bonus of 93.5 with a SD of 5.4
Greening up has a mean bonus of 97.3 with a SD of 0.6
Hybrid has a mean bonus of 94.4 with a SD of 3.2
4SO Hybrid has a mean bonus of 101.4 with a SD of 1.3
These are illustrated in the linked graph: here
/Endmath
Replacing is better than combining (which was a surprise to me I always combined). The downside is paying for a full set of SOs one full level earlier this can be an issue
Cats recommendations
1) Use the Hybrid Strategy in the main this is a shade less than replacing in overall effectiveness, but does have lower power variability. It feels smoother and has the advantage of being the most flexible to incorporate SO drops
2) For certain key powers consider the merits of 4 Slotting when leveling up it really smooths out the variability (even if you respec at/near 50 to 3SO). You dont worry so much about if enhacers are green or yellow. Suggestions for this approach would include any Assassins move, Blappers key attacks and tanks armours.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617