Enemy Resistances - Damage and Mez


Bandeeto

 

Posted

A new computer lets me poke around high-level Villainside, now, huzzah! Buddy with a new Kheldian alt, huzzah!

I forget what was in the old version, but there's a good update of data - Some Scirocco Patron Arc, all of Faultline, error corrections, finding out there are major issues with the Notes in OpenOffice now that I'm forced to use it...so, enjoy, folks.


Enemy Resistances - Damage, Mez and Defense
Enemy XP Mods
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Posted

http://culex.us/ig/CHres.xls
(yes it is the same link as always)

Okay, not much data update (some though), but big functionality change. Give thanks to Toastyr of the forums here for adding on an extra page to the spreadsheet, that averages and sorts out stuff for you. I threw in a sheet of Instructions too. Anyway, I'm exhausted, and there are instructions, and you can vastly appreciate Toastyr for his work, so I'll leave it brief here.

Choose the tab "Average Damage" and you can use the drop down lists to sort stuff to match whatever value you choose. The rarity column shows how rare the enemy is on average in the game. There is no reason for anyone ever to say "Psychic damage does a lot more than others" if they throw Object-rarity things in for example. You can make your own sort lists with the hide column, by throwing in your own named values into the cells, since you can only sort for one item of the other drop-down lists at once. So if you wanted to only fight enemies who are Minion and Lieutenant and Sniper rank, you would have to do each rank individually if you sorted with rank, but if you sort those out, mark them with an X or "mefitegud" or whatever in the hide column for each of those entries, then you can sort the hide column by "mefitegud" or X to see them all averaged at once.

There are bugs and one bug fix is listed in the planner, and that's the only big bug that is fixable. The other bug is if there are too many missing data entries then it can't average it and the fix for that is for you to give me the data, oh please give me the data. But that's all that should be apparent as far as I know.

So have fun sorting and averaging stuff as I know we all love to do.


Enemy Resistances - Damage, Mez and Defense
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Posted

Ya, I've been having a great deal of fun experimenting with this spreadsheet.

I've added in more detailed instructions for the averages page, and a bunch of tips and tricks for sorting in a new version. Culex will put them up later today hopefully. (Big thx there btw )

Interestingly, Smash and Lethal aren't resisted the same amount, in fact quite the opposite. Groups seem to be usually weak vrs one and tough vrs the other. It seems to favor Smashing by a good margin, since many tech oriented groups take extra damage from smashing. (Like clockwork or some sky raiders)

What is really strange is psy really does seem to be one of the most resisted damage types. Problem is, there are a number of holes in the data so its probably only like 98% accurate.


Here's some real resist numbers I pulled out of the spreadsheet.

<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
With all the data in the table:

Smash Lethal Fire Cold Energy N.Nrg Psy Toxic
0.94 0.92 0.97 0.96 0.97 0.97 0.95 0.92

Resists for Common enemies (Minions, lt's, normal bosses)

Smash Lethal Fire Cold Energy N.Nrg Psy Toxic
0.95 0.94 0.99 0.98 0.99 0.99 0.97 0.93



Minions:

Smash Lethal Fire Cold Energy N.Nrg Psy Toxic
0.97 0.96 0.99 0.98 1.00 0.99 0.97 0.93


LT's:

Smash Lethal Fire Cold Energy N.Nrg Psy Toxic
0.94 0.92 0.98 0.97 0.98 1.00 0.98 0.96


Bosses:

Smash Lethal Fire Cold Energy N.Nrg Psy Toxic
0.94 0.92 0.97 0.96 0.97 0.98 0.95 0.92



Rare Enemies (EB's, AV's, Monsters, Named Bosses.) Really need more data to make this completely accurate though.

All Rares

Smash Lethal Fire Cold Energy N.Nrg Psy Toxic
0.86 0.86 0.92 0.91 0.92 0.91 0.86 0.89


AV's

Smash Lethal Fire Cold Energy N.Nrg Psy Toxic
0.87 0.88 0.93 0.94 0.93 0.92 0.84 0.92


EB's

Smash Lethal Fire Cold Energy N.Nrg Psy Toxic
0.87 0.84 0.96 0.92 0.93 0.97 0.96 0.90
</pre><hr />


As a side note until the next version comes out, Best way to clean up the overall averages is to filter out the group averages, by setting rank/type filter combobox to show: "Nonblanks"

Unfortunately its not the most user friendly, but it is as flexible as I could make it.

Any questions or comment about the sorting page feel free to post here or PM me.


 

Posted

Thanks, Stupid_Fanboy. Feedback always makes for happy.

Anyway, sorry - my website's innards went away and I could not upload the version with Toastyr's better instructions. It is up now, so yay.


Enemy Resistances - Damage, Mez and Defense
Enemy XP Mods
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Posted

Culex, I love this type of data. The mez and damage resistances of various foes come up all the time on the boards and only rarely do folks know the actual facts.

That being said, a large amount of information present in the old spreadsheet disappeared with the latest update. I was hoping you'd update the Nemesis Confuse res stuff, but now it's just gone, as are a lot of the Arachnos numbers.

More updates coming soon I hope? Thanks for the effort.


68 Level 50s, all made the old-fashioned way.
Original: Quasar Lad - Fire/Kin troller. Latest: Asp Kicker - Grav/Poison troller.
Completed the "Full Alty Challenge" - level 50 in every archetype, and "Alty's Ultimate Power Challenge" - level 50 in every available powerset in the game.
Member of the Repeat Offenders

 

Posted

I'm going to be defensive here, as this has been covered a few times earlier in this thread, and in the spreadsheet instructions: I can't get the data that is missing, excepting anything that appears in the Scirocco arcs, which still might take many months to get through.

I especially can't get mez data. I have five 50s. Two are controllers. One is Illusion, and one is Fire. No other controllers or dominators of mine are 40+. Because, honestly, I don't like the mezzing game very much. Too much inaction on both sides. And my controllers are not good for testing mez resistance with. The Fire's arsenal is all AOE except for his hold, which means it takes a long time for it to recharge, like for disorient. The Illusion has three holds, two of which are AOE. Along with that drop, weird, fear thing, which is difficult to test with for obvious reasons. I really don't like the animation or sound of Deceive, so I don't have it, and would be depressed if forced to take it over a power I really like. It is naturally difficult to test for that which you have not got. I had to test a lot of disorient stuff with Taser on my 50 blaster. That's also not fun, as it isn't slotted, because, come on, it's Taser. No Beanbag either. I have 5 controllers and 1 dominator total.

So it is hard for me to test mez resistance on many, many things. Consider the non-data an incentive to do some minor testing?

It is not difficult to test things when you DO have the powers, though. Anything 40+ with Confuse or Deceive slotted a bit for accuracy or whatever could test out the Nemesis, for example. You just use the power until an enemy is mezzed, count the amount you had to apply, then do the same for a second one to ensure no crits were to be had. If confuses can even crit. I don't know. Do it again for a different-model enemy, like robots v. humans. Do it again for differences between minions, lieuts, and bosses, because each will have at least +1 mag of protection from the previous model. Send in the data, I'll see if it looks reasonable, put it in, and put your name in lights on the contributions tab on the spreadsheet.

And please remember, I spent many months, usually with 15 or more hours a week, working on damage resistances, and when possible hold/disorient/immobilize resistances on street-sweepable enemies, before I released this originally to the public. If I haven't got data by now, it's usually because I cannot get the data remotely well, thanks to the unique enemies. And please remember that I can't just put down my assumptions. They're often wrong. While all Longbow bosses that are not tanks have a base 1x for all resistances, the heroes and villains that show up in Mayhem/Safeguard missions are not always like that.

For example each member of the Civic Squad appear all of once, depending on your team size. There are 9 of them, 1 in his own mission, and 1-8 in the other, being exactly your team size, so the ability for me to go in and get data for each one, and each one with each toggle up or down (several have several toggles), requiring an 8 person team, and me on several swapping characters (note that this is a high level mission and almost all of my villains are in the 20s), likely getting debt each time due to 8 Bosses with high damage wailing on you, mezzing you...it is just difficult, is all. And that's for the easier way of getting damage resistance. Mez resistance levels is even harder.

Not easy.

So I rather am at the stage of relying on contributions. That's fine. I welcome it. I wish I actually had someone point out what the real values are, but regardless, this is where I am. Updates will have to be scarce because my opportunities are scarce. I figure, if a dozen people read this, then maybe one of those dozen can test out a random thing in his Mako arc, or something.

Anyway, I just figured having this awesome tool for averaging out data was worthy of its own release. Of course not everyone would agree, but hey, my spreadsheet, my rules!


Enemy Resistances - Damage, Mez and Defense
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Posted

Culex, I'm sorry I hit a hot button there. I wasn't critiquing the guide, nor was I in any way demeaning your work or absolving myself from testing. Nor have I read the entire thread.

As you can see from my sig I have 3 level 50 trollers with no compunctions whatsoever about using mezzes of all kinds on every conceivable mob. I am very clear on the usual resist patterns. My primary purpose in using your guide is to spot-check myself when my memory goes regarding mez resists. I've already done the work, but sometimes I forget and your spreadsheet helps a lot with that.

My primary reason in commenting on the missing data for Nemesis is that there had been numbers present for them in the previous version of the table, and I lost them when I upgraded to the new one.

I previously sent you a PM regarding the fact that Nemesis should show a +1 Mag for their confuse resists. 3 for minions, 4 for lts, 5 for bosses. I believe this to be the case because (short of a critical confuse) it always takes two applications, similar to their Fear resist. If you wish to add this to the table, wonderful.


68 Level 50s, all made the old-fashioned way.
Original: Quasar Lad - Fire/Kin troller. Latest: Asp Kicker - Grav/Poison troller.
Completed the "Full Alty Challenge" - level 50 in every archetype, and "Alty's Ultimate Power Challenge" - level 50 in every available powerset in the game.
Member of the Repeat Offenders

 

Posted

Do the robots require extra confusion applications? The little spheres with drawing-compass legs? Jaegers. And what about Automatons if you remember that far back? And the Shadow Shard Reflection Nemesiseses in general? I don't trust robots in the game, they like to be weird for everything, except the Nemesis bosses which are robots and are extra confusing, and I sometimes hear reports that the Shadow Shard Reflections are unique in some ways. I know it's a hassle to get out there and test, though; their resistance to damage seemed normal, so at least for now I think it is not silly to assume their mez resistances would be equivalent to the non-Shadows. It is my fault for not reading your PM properly though before, I admit.

And it wasn't really you I griped at, I just used you as a jumping point. I'm sorry if I seemed harsh/nonsensical, I was battling a bad fever (and still am, ugh) and my logic kind of goes away, or I suck at making statements that flow. The basic thing is that I love getting data, but the only data I've been given in the past is StarGeek's GM data, which is not enough! (But it was helpful.) So apparently my attempts to convince people to test stuff fails. So every once in a while I plea for help.

Anyway, yeah, I'd removed the data because they was wrong and I'd rather have no data than wrong data. Unless it was "they were right in the past, then wrong, then gone" in which case I have no idea how that happened, I try not to touch anything than what I am updating at any point. Once I messed up all the Warwolf S-res data once though without noticing, so I guess I have precedent.

Speaking of other things, even I'm having a blast with this sorter. Like the worst you can be against Rikti is Lethal. And for Soldiers of Rularuu, Energy has the worst time. Don't bring Psychic damage to Arachnos, and don't try to fight the Malta Operatives or Shadow Shard Reflections with Lethal.


Enemy Resistances - Damage, Mez and Defense
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Posted

I believe that Jaegers do require two shots of Confuse, but I'll check it for you this evening. To my knowledge the Jaegers are neither Fear'able, nor Sleep'able, like almost all true robots (Clocks being the exception). They also blow up when you kill them.

I love controllers, and I reeeeaaallly hate Jaegers.

Sadly, despite all my play time and levels I have never done anything of significance in the Shadow Shard, so no dice there.

Interestingly the Automatons act (IIRC) more like humanoid soldiers. They sleep, for one thing, and can be knocked back with something resembling success.

Btw, I believe that Nemesis soldiers are particularly sensitive to sleep, and have been told in the past that they sleep extra long. Fairly sure I confirmed that was the case, but it was over a year ago.

One interesting dataset not generally available in addition to the damage resistance stuff is mob defense. Anyone will tell you that Rikti drones are damn near impossible to hit consistently without some sort of accuracy boost. Also, the Carnies as a block have increased defense (not sure how much) against Psi attacks. They gave my Mind/TA absolute fits because he often couldn't hit them even with 2 accs slotted. I'm certain there are more.

Hope your fever gets better soon!

Edit: Confirmed, Jaegers are 1) immune to fear and sleep, and 2) require 2 applications of confuse unless a critical occurs. Also, Warhulks are fear immune and both they and the Fake Nems require 2 confuses. Humanoid Nemesis and Fake Nems are fear resistant but can be feared with stacking.


68 Level 50s, all made the old-fashioned way.
Original: Quasar Lad - Fire/Kin troller. Latest: Asp Kicker - Grav/Poison troller.
Completed the "Full Alty Challenge" - level 50 in every archetype, and "Alty's Ultimate Power Challenge" - level 50 in every available powerset in the game.
Member of the Repeat Offenders

 

Posted

Yeah I pondered putting in a Defense sheet, but since the ONLY way for me to test is even more annoying than Damage/Mez (use attacks on enemies, see if abnormal misses (now better with DEFLECTED), repeat with different ones to differentiate type from position, so while a ranged cold attack may be defensed, it might be due to ranged, or cold, or both, so attacks of ranged and not-cold, and not-ranged and cold would have to be used), so I decided to leave it off. I treasure the sanity I have and wish not to damage it. However, if that data were ever leaked to the public, like through iakona, I would certainly put it on the chart, as it IS useful.

I knew the Automatons acted like the humans, but I wasn't positive and had none available to play with.

I CAN get the Sleep length checked out semi-easily with the virtue of an SK and Mass Hypnosis on a lowbie of mine, and will do so this weekend. Some of the duration things are very, very strange in this game, eg. Clockwork, Psychic Clockwork, Mooks Hitmen (USED to be, took forever for Confuse to kick in, then they would be Confused literally forever...that was oh no nerfed so they are Confused for half of forever).

I guess after you live in a giant bottle of soda pop after being char-blackened like a salmon filet nothing scares you anymore because you wish to die so much.

Anyway, thank you for the data, I already have it put in so the next version will have it. Here is hoping that others follow your lead and spit numbers at me for everyone's benefit.


Enemy Resistances - Damage, Mez and Defense
Enemy XP Mods
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Posted

im reading this. and. i have to say. you totally rock. shame that defense has to be such a pain in the tail. but from your findings in the sense of resistance. what is your thoughts in defenses for these enemies. Like for example. Some vahzilok are weak against Lethal. But did you notice that they are harder to hit when using a lethal attack as opposed to a smashing attack. or should defense might as well be just random made up numbers cause seems like everything has high defense to all attacks.


 

Posted

Vahzilok actually have no Defense that I know of. The bosses might, but I am kind of iffy on thinking they do. (I just ran a bunch of Vahzilok missions two nights ago, it was all MISS all the time, and I was using some Lethal with a veteran's reward.) Recall that they are normally fought with few to no enhancements, due to being a low level enemy group - so your attacks are only hitting the base accuracy anyhow. Something only has Defense to SOMETHING when you get "DEFLECTED!" pop up over their heads when you use an attack. "ABSORBED!" or anything else is due to their Defense as well. "MISS!" just means your Accuracy/ToHit roll failed, so it didn't even go to the "check to see if you get through their Defenses if applicable" stage. Now, the Murk Eidolon bosses have Dark attacks, which debuff your Accuracy or ToHit, I forget which; regardless, they make you hit even less often.

Anyway, did the Sleep Duration test on Nemesiesesises two days ago, thought I'd share the results. They have perfectly normal Sleep durations, sorry Bandeeto. Later today, or Thursday, the Shadow Shard Reflection ones will be tested with Fear to ensure they are just like their normal friends.


Enemy Resistances - Damage, Mez and Defense
Enemy XP Mods
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Posted

Great Job Culex (and StarGeek) .. first time I've seen a comprehensive list of Damage Res &amp; Mez Res for villains. I recall the beginnings of one a couple of years ago, but it didn't get far.


 

Posted

Okay, a large update will be coming through the pikes semi-regularly. (Takes time to type all the numbers alone!!) I will have an update released May 31st or June 1st. Mez data will start to be filled in. Damage resists are being checked over in the case that any are wrong. Finding plenty of new enemies somehow... (And no, there's no update today.)

Defense is coming.

Now what I need to know from the USERS, is are there any of you with the most recent copy, with the auto-sorter damage resistance sheet (the next to final tab in the sheet), who canNOT use that auto-sorter for any reason? Right now I am thinking of removing the basic, no-auto-sorter damage resistance sheet so that I don't have to update FOUR sheets every time I add a new enemy (damage resistance, auto-sorter damage resistance, mez resistance, defense). I know it works in the latest OpenOffice.org spreadsheet program, which is free, so I would think very few would have an old enough version of Excel and no ability to get OpenOffice.org, but still, I just want to make sure.

Also, I'd take ANY responses on how to make the stupid note/comments that pop up be better. They end up shoved way down the screen and that's no good, but a ton of the mez/res/def powers come from toggles the enemies have, and have on most of the time. Every time I make a new entry the comments all shove down a line, and it is a HUGE pain to drag them all back up. Maybe someone who knows how to use OpenOffice has a solution? I suck at spreadsheets but don't want to make a tabled webpage that would probably end up blocked at workspaces where it seems 80% of the browsing of the COH forums happens.


Enemy Resistances - Damage, Mez and Defense
Enemy XP Mods
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Posted

Here's your May Update. A good amount of corrected data, some new data, etc. Some Defense values (with lots of qualifiers you need to open up the Note/Comment things for). Sorry it's not a huge amount of information, still having health issues. Empty cells are currently "data forthcoming." June Update should have more done if health issues clear up. Enjoy.

Edit: helps to upload it first...


Enemy Resistances - Damage, Mez and Defense
Enemy XP Mods
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Posted

UPDATE
www.culex.us/ig/CHres.xls

Factions updated: Cage Consortium Guards, Carnies (or was that in the last one?), Circle Of Thorns, Civic Squad, Clockwork, Contaminated, Coralax, Council, Council Empire, Crazed, Crey, Croatoa, Ghosts, Hellions, Hydra, Security Guards, some Shadow Shard Reflections (ones that are in the above groups; may require changes later)

Not in yet: I10 factions and new enemies such as Vanguard Sword, sorry

Next up: Continuing alphabetically as time permits, I10 entities

Errors: Several new enemies are listed under Crey (Fire Tanker Clone, Radiation Defender Clone, etc.) that I myself have never seen in-game hero- or villain-side. I would like confirmation if they do or do not exist in fact; if they don't, they will be removed as they may cause errors in damage deducing for groups.

Disposing of: monthly updates


Enemy Resistances - Damage, Mez and Defense
Enemy XP Mods
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Posted

Culex,

Thanks so much again for all your work on this. These numbers are (as always) a god-send.

Countless times I run into a critter and say to myself, "Wow, I wish I knew what sort of damage would actually work on these buggers, 'cause what I'm using ain't cutting it!" Then I turn to your spreadsheet, and I learn the answer.

Or rather, I know how badly that alt is scrod against that particular villain type, but knowing is half the battle.

The mez protection stuff has been the most helpful, as always. It's also great to finally see the level of defense that Carnies have against Psi. Now at least I know how much "tohit" I need to handle them.

Great info.


68 Level 50s, all made the old-fashioned way.
Original: Quasar Lad - Fire/Kin troller. Latest: Asp Kicker - Grav/Poison troller.
Completed the "Full Alty Challenge" - level 50 in every archetype, and "Alty's Ultimate Power Challenge" - level 50 in every available powerset in the game.
Member of the Repeat Offenders

 

Posted

Culex, I saw you mention this in Virtue chat, so I stopped by to check it out. Great, great guide. Thanks for all the hard work.


 

Posted

This is great. This must have been a huge amount of work. Thank you


 

Posted

http://www.culex.us/ig/CHres.xls

Latest Update - November 13 2007
Beta tested I11, ran the LGTF, STF, H-2/3 Respec, V-1 Respec, Renault SF, some generic missions, then went through existing data piles some more.

Factions Added: Generator, Generic Heroes, Hero, Loyalists, Vanguard Sword

Enemies Added: 5th Column, Arachnos, Circle of Thorns, Devouring Earth, Equipment, Explosive, Family, Freakshow, Longbow, Meteors, Object, Paragon Police, Paragon Protectors, Psychic Clockwork, Relic, Rikti, Rogue Isles Villains, Scrapyarders, Wyvern

Data Updated: Civic Squad, Devouring Earth, Dockworkers, Escaped Prisoners, Family, Fir Bolg, Freakshow, Freedom Corps, Independent, Krylov's Creations, Longbow, Nemesis, Nemesis Automatons, Object, Outcasts, Paragon Citizen, Paragon Heroes, Paragon Patrol, Paragon Police, Paragon Protectors, Prisoners, Red Caps, RedCaps, Rogue Isles Villains, Scrapyarders, Tormented Victim, Unknown, Void Hunters

Data Requested:
-Any more 5th Column guys? I have the data, just not names &amp; ranks.
-Any other types of Dr. Aeon clones (like "Spines Scrapper," "Dark Defender," whatever); I already have data.
-Any other I11 content I have missed. Faction/Name/Rank is all I need for now.
-Are there really 7th Generation Paragon Protectors in &lt;Crey&gt; instead of just &lt;Paragon Protectors&gt;? I forget, I have them dual-listed and I have confused myself.
-Anything with blanks!

NPC Help:
These enemies come from various hero and villain missions at various levels. I have all the data, I simply do not know who is what archetype, like "Robot Mastermind," "Fire Brute," "Ice Corr," "Mind Dom," etc. Just knowing one power of theirs, be it an attack or a defensive power, is usually enough to pinpoint what they are except if they are a Fire Corr/Fire Brute. These are the ones needing identification, all from Rogue Isles Villains:
Bad Penny, Comrade, Contemptress, Dark Sabaoth, Dr. Eva Lone, Misadventure, Miss Thystle, Pyrelord, Sardonic


Enemy Resistances - Damage, Mez and Defense
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Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I am weeping because the link isn't working now. Any chance somebody knows where a copy is?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a copy, but I'm not sure if it's the most recent.

In any case, here it is.


 

Posted

I've been trying desperately to change over my nameservers to get away from an awful awful webhost... things are not going well let me tell you. I'll try to see what's going on and fix it. But I have a VERY bad flu-like cold so I may not be able to get it to work for a few days.

For now, use

http://74.220.215.209/~culexus/ig/coh/CHres.xls

(The old hosting company often doesn't respond to tech support tickets ever, so here's hoping this issue does not take weeks to resolve.)


Enemy Resistances - Damage, Mez and Defense
Enemy XP Mods
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Posted

Latest Update - February 19 2008

NEW URL: http://www.culex.us/ig/coh/CHres.xls

Factions Added: none

Enemies Added: Equipment, Soldiers of Rularuu

Data Updated: Crey, Dark Miasma, Earth Control, Equipment, Fire Control, Ice Control, Illusions, Malta Operatives, Meteors, Pets, Praetorians, Rikti, Rogue Isles Villains

Data Requested:
-&lt;Fire Control&gt; Imp data may be different, but they are hard to force-spawn from &lt;Outcasts&gt; Lead Scorchers; can anyone verify a lack of C weakness or the 40% F res? Previous numbers (from like 2 years ago) indicated 30% F res.
-&lt;Rogue Isles Villains&gt; Ayame Higarashi/Contemptress/Silent Blade, is their Ninja Reflexes an auto power or a toggle power like their Danger Sense? This can be detected with the usage of the combat-numbers. I know the numbers; just not whether it is auto or toggle.
-&lt;Rogue Isles Villains&gt; Miss Thystle is a Spines Stalker or Plant Dominator?
-&lt;Soldiers of Rularuu&gt; Brute Lord is a uniquely named but generic Boss in the Dr. Quaterfield Task Force, or what?


Enemy Resistances - Damage, Mez and Defense
Enemy XP Mods
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