Power Data Standardization v2.0 (Issue 7)


Arcanaville

 

Posted

Note to math/number haters: hit your Back button now; this thread is not for you.


Now, for anyone still reading, this is the long-awaited update to my previous thread, Power Data Standardization/Brawl Index Replacement.

This thread will serve as a consolidation/reorganization of the huge mass of information in the previous thread, to hopefully provide a more user-friendly source of the data found there. I'll be using more formulae and less tables this time around, to try to clear up some of the clutter from the old thread. If you are unable to do simple algebra...well, you're probably not interested in this thread in the first place. If you're new to my data guides, Welcome! Try not to be too intimidated by all the numbers and equations about to be dumped on you. Get those spreadsheets and calculators ready; I now present to you...


POWER DATA STANDARDIZATION v2.0 (revised and consolidated for Issue 7)

We'll start off here with the most popular data: Damage. All powers in the game are classified as either Melee or Ranged. This classification is independent of the actual range of the power; an 80 ft attack can be considered melee, and a 10 ft attack can be ranged. So how do you know whether an attack is Melee or Ranged? For most powersets, it's fairly straightforward; Example: all attack powers in the blast sets (shared by Blasters, Defenders, and Corruptors), as well as the Controller, Dominator, and Mastermind primary sets, are classified as Ranged attacks, while all attack powers in the Scrapper, Brute, and Stalker primary sets are classified as Melee attacks. For Dominators, Peacebringers, and Warshades, you'll need to refer to a guide that lists the Ranged/Melee classification of the powers (or use common sense, in most cases). Mez powers and debuffs follow the same rules as damage, for Ranged/Melee classification.

Buffs are also classified as Ranged or Melee. Any buff that affects an entity other than the caster uses the Ranged modifier; this includes powers like Tactics, Fortitude, and Dispersion Bubble. Any buff that ONLY affects the caster uses the Melee modifier; this includes powers like Aim, Build Up, and personal defensive toggles. (Note: Grant Invisibility is a known exception to this rule, as it uses the Melee modifier for an unknown reason. There may or may not be other exceptions.)

Now that we understand Melee vs. Ranged classifications, what do we do with that? The effectiveness of your powers is determined by multiplying the base Scale values for a power by the Ranged or Melee modifiers that correspond to those values. The Scale values are (almost always) the same between any ATs that share the power. For instance, Brawl has a Damage Scale value of 0.36 for all ATs, and the level 1 Melee Damage modifier for a Blaster is -10, so the target's HP would be modified by 0.36 * -10 = -3.6 Hit Points. If you know the base Scale value of any attribute of any power, you can use the tables below to find the corresponding Modifier, and calculate the actual in-game effect of that power. Example: Build Up has Scale values of 8.0 for Melee_Buff_Dmg and 2.0 for Melee_Buff_ToHit, so checking table 1 below, we see that a Blaster would get a damage buff of 8.0 * 0.125 = 1.0 or 100%, and a to-hit buff of 2.0 * 0.075 = 0.15 or 15%.


Now comes the fun part, a flood of numbers and equations!
Table 1 lists the AT Modifiers for each attribute. For the Modifiers that vary by level, you'll need to refer to Table 2 and Table 3 to calculate the final Modifier value.
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Table 1: AT MODIFIERS
Mod Blaster Contrlr Defendr Scrappr Tanker Khldian Brute Stalker MasterM Domnatr Coruptr
MELEE
EndDrn 1 1.1 1.25 1 1 1 1 1 1.1 1.1 1
Slow -1 -1.25 -1.25 -0.8 -0.8 -1 -0.8 -0.8 -1 -1 -1
BuffDef 0.07 0.09 0.1 0.075 0.1 0.075 0.075 0.075 0.09 0.085 0.085
BuffDmg 0.125 0.08 0.1 0.125 0.1 0.09 0.1 0.1 0.08 0.085 0.085
Buf2Hit 0.075 0.08 0.1 0.1 0.1 0.09 0.1 0.1 0.08 0.085 0.085
DBf2Hit -0.07 -0.1 -0.125 -0.075 -0.07 -0.09 -0.075 -0.075 -0.1 -0.1 -0.075
DBufDam -0.07 -0.1 -0.125 -0.075 -0.07 -0.09 -0.075 -0.075 -0.1 -0.1 -0.075
DBufDef -0.07 -0.1 -0.125 -0.075 -0.07 -0.09 -0.075 -0.075 -0.1 -0.1 -0.075
ResDmg 0.07 0.1 0.1 0.075 0.1 0.075 0.075 0.075 0.1 0.085 0.075

RANGED
EndDrn 1 1.1 1.25 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1.1
Slow -1 -1.25 -1.25 -0.8 -0.8 -1 -0.8 -0.8 -1 -1 -1
BuffDef 0.065 0.075 0.1 0.065 0.065 0.075 0.065 0.065 0.075 0.075 0.075
BuffDmg 0.07 0.1 0.125 0.07 0.07 0.09 0.07 0.07 0.075 0.075 0.1
Buf2Hit 0.07 0.1 0.125 0.07 0.07 0.09 0.07 0.07 0.075 0.075 0.1
DBf2Hit -0.07 -0.1 -0.125 -0.07 -0.07 -0.09 -0.07 -0.07 -0.075 -0.075 -0.1
DBufDam -0.07 -0.1 -0.125 -0.07 -0.07 -0.09 -0.07 -0.07 -0.075 -0.075 -0.1
DBufDmg -0.07 -0.1 -0.125 -0.07 -0.07 -0.09 -0.07 -0.07 -0.075 -0.075 -0.1
DBufDef -0.07 -0.1 -0.125 -0.07 -0.07 -0.09 -0.07 -0.07 -0.075 -0.075 -0.1
ResDmg 0.065 0.075 0.1 0.065 0.065 0.075 0.065 0.065 0.075 0.075 0.075


The following Modifiers vary by level
Mod Blaster Contrlr Defendr Scrappr Tanker Khldian Brute Stalker MasterM Domnatr Coruptr
HitPts 1.125 0.95 0.95 1.25 1.75 1 1.4 0.95 0.75 0.95 1
MaxHP 1 1 1 1.5 2 1.5 2 1 1 1 1

MELEE
Damage 1 0.55 0.55 1.125 0.8 0.75 0.75 0.9 0.55 0.75 0.75
KheldSS --- --- --- --- --- 0.85 --- --- --- --- ---
Heal 0.9 1.1 1.25 0.9 0.9 0.9 0.9 0.9 1.1 1.1 0.9
HealSlf 1.125 0.95 0.95 1.25 1.75 1 1.4 0.95 0.75 0.95 1
Stun 0.8 1.25 1 0.8 0.8 0.9 0.8 0.8 1 1 0.8
Immobil 0.8 1.25 1 0.8 0.8 0.9 0.8 0.8 1 1 0.8
Sleep 0.8 1.25 1 0.8 0.8 0.9 0.8 0.8 1 1 0.8
Knockbk 1 1 1 1 1.25 1 1.25 1 1 1 1
Fear 0.8 1.25 1 1 1 0.9 1 1 1 1 0.8
ResBool 0.8 0.8 0.8 1 1.25 0.9 1 1 0.8 0.8 0.8

RANGED
Damage 1 0.55 0.65 0.5 0.5 0.625 0.5 0.6 0.55 0.65 0.75
KheldSS --- --- --- --- --- 1.2 --- --- --- --- ---
Heal 0.9 1.1 1.25 0.9 0.9 0.9 0.9 0.9 1 1 1.1
HealSlf 1.125 0.95 0.95 1.25 1.75 1 1.4 0.95 0.75 0.95 1
Stun 0.8 1.25 1 0.8 0.8 0.9 0.8 0.8 1 1 0.75
Immobil 0.8 1.25 1 0.8 0.8 0.9 0.8 0.8 0.8 1 0.8
Sleep 0.8 1.25 1 8 0.8 0.9 0.8 8 0.8 1 0.8
Knockbk 0.8 1 1 1 1.25 0.9 1.25 1 0.8 1 0.8
Fear 0.8 1.25 1 1 1 0.9 1 1 0.8 1 0.8
ResBool 0.7 1 1.25 0.7 0.7 0.9 0.7 0.7 0.75 0.75 1


NOTES
EndDrn = Endurance Drain
BuffDef = Buff Defense, used by powers like Maneuvers and Personal Force Field
BuffDmg = Buff Damage, used by powers like Forge and Build Up
Buf2Hit = Buff To-Hit, used by powers like Tactics and Aim
DBf2Hit = Debuff To-Hit
DBufDam = Debuff Damage
DBufDef = Debuff Defense
ResDmg = Resist Damage, used by both buff and debuff powers that modify resistance

HitPts = Total Hit Points
MaxHP = Maximum possible Hit Points, using HP-boosting powers like Dull Pain or accolades

KheldSS = Kheldian Damage modifiers while shapeshifted, Melee is Dwarf Form, Ranged is Nova Form
HealSlf = Heal Self, used for self heal powers like Reconstruction and Aid Self
ResBool = Res_Boolean, used for misc. attributes that scale by level, like mez resistance
</pre><hr />
These are the equations for calculating the final Modifiers that you'll multiply by the Scale values to get the actual effect.
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Table 2: LEVEL-VARIABLE MODIFIER EQUATIONS
Damage = BaseDmg - [ BaseDmg * LvlMod * ( 1 - AT_Mod ) ]
HitPoints = BaseHP - [ BaseHP * LvlMod * ( 1 - AT_Mod ) ]
MaxHitPoints = 1.5 * { BaseHP - [ BaseHP * LvlMod * ( 1 - AT_Mod ) ] }
Heal = 0.1 * BaseHP * AT_Mod
HealSelf = 0.1 * { BaseHP - [ BaseHP * LvlMod * ( 1 - AT_Mod ) ] }
Stun = BaseMez * AT_Mod
Immobilize = BaseMez * AT_Mod
Sleep = BaseMez * AT_Mod
Knockback = BaseKB - [ BaseKB * LvlMod * ( 1 - AT_Mod ) ]
Fear = BaseMez * AT_Mod
Res_Boolean = ResBool * AT_Mod</pre><hr />
These are the base modifier values that you'll input into the equations in Table 2.
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Table 3: BASE MODIFIERS
Level LvlMod BaseDmg BaseHP BaseMez BaseKB ResBool
1 0.2 -10.0000 100.0000 1.00 1.0000 0.150
2 0.21 -10.7345 110.5000 1.01 1.0317 0.154
3 0.23 -11.4986 121.7997 1.02 1.0611 0.158
4 0.25 -12.2917 133.9275 1.03 1.0885 0.162
5 0.27 -13.1135 146.9091 1.04 1.1140 0.166
6 0.3 -13.9635 160.7676 1.05 1.1378 0.170
7 0.35 -14.8409 175.5225 1.06 1.1601 0.174
8 0.4 -15.7453 191.1898 1.07 1.1810 0.178
9 0.45 -16.6759 207.7812 1.08 1.2006 0.182
10 0.5 -17.6319 225.3041 1.09 1.2193 0.186
11 0.55 -18.6125 243.7607 1.10 1.2370 0.190
12 0.6 -19.6169 263.1478 1.11 1.2539 0.194
13 0.65 -20.6441 283.4566 1.12 1.2702 0.198
14 0.7 -21.6933 304.6722 1.13 1.2859 0.202
15 0.75 -22.7634 326.7734 1.14 1.3013 0.206
16 0.8 -23.8533 349.7323 1.15 1.3163 0.210
17 0.85 -24.9619 373.5140 1.16 1.3313 0.214
18 0.9 -26.0880 398.0770 1.17 1.3461 0.218
19 0.95 -27.2302 423.3724 1.18 1.3610 0.222
20 1 -28.3872 449.3441 1.19 1.3759 0.226
21 1 -29.5574 475.9290 1.20 1.3911 0.230
22 1 -30.7391 503.0570 1.21 1.4066 0.234
23 1 -31.9305 530.6509 1.22 1.4225 0.238
24 1 -33.1297 558.6270 1.23 1.4388 0.242
25 1 -34.3344 586.8953 1.24 1.4555 0.246
26 1 -35.5423 615.3598 1.25 1.4728 0.250
27 1 -36.7508 643.9188 1.26 1.4908 0.254
28 1 -37.9571 672.4658 1.27 1.5093 0.258
29 1 -39.1582 700.8901 1.28 1.5286 0.262
30 1 -40.3506 729.0768 1.29 1.5485 0.266
31 1 -41.5310 756.9086 1.30 1.5693 0.270
32 1 -42.6954 784.2654 1.31 1.5907 0.274
33 1 -43.8398 811.0261 1.32 1.6130 0.278
34 1 -44.9599 837.0691 1.33 1.6360 0.282
35 1 -46.0511 862.2729 1.34 1.6599 0.286
36 1 -47.1088 886.5175 1.35 1.6845 0.290
37 1 -48.1279 909.6852 1.36 1.7099 0.294
38 1 -49.1033 931.6613 1.37 1.7361 0.298
39 1 -50.0299 952.3353 1.38 1.7630 0.302
40 1 -50.9022 971.6017 1.39 1.7907 0.306
41 1 -51.7150 989.3612 1.40 1.8190 0.310
42 1 -52.4628 1005.5210 1.41 1.8480 0.314
43 1 -53.1404 1019.9950 1.42 1.8776 0.318
44 1 -53.7426 1032.7080 1.43 1.9078 0.322
45 1 -54.2642 1043.5910 1.44 1.9385 0.326
46 1 -54.7007 1052.5850 1.45 1.9696 0.330
47 1 -55.0473 1059.6440 1.46 2.0011 0.334
48 1 -55.3001 1064.7290 1.47 2.0329 0.338
49 1 -55.4552 1067.8130 1.48 2.0649 0.342
50 1 -55.6102 1070.8970 1.49 2.0771 0.346</pre><hr />
Now that you know how to find all the modifiers, you just need the base power Scale values to find the exact effectiveness of your powers at any level, and for any AT. There's one more table you'll need, to find the effects of your powers against enemies who are not your level. For this relative level adjustment, simply multiply the effects of your powers by the CombatMod in the table below that corresponds to your level difference. The "Above" column is for [Level] levels above the target, and "Below" is for [Level] levels below the target.
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Table 4: COMBAT MODIFIERS
Level Above Below Level Above Below
0 1 1 25 3.6 0.01
1 1.11 0.9 26 3.7 0.01
2 1.22 0.8 27 3.8 0.01
3 1.33 0.65 28 3.9 0.01
4 1.44 0.48 29 4 0.01
5 1.55 0.3 30 4.1 0.01
6 1.66 0.15 31 4.2 0.01
7 1.77 0.08 32 4.3 0.01
8 1.88 0.05 33 4.4 0.01
9 2 0.04 34 4.5 0.01
10 2.1 0.03 35 4.6 0.01
11 2.2 0.02 36 4.7 0.01
12 2.3 0.01 37 4.8 0.01
13 2.4 0.01 38 4.9 0.01
14 2.5 0.01 39 5 0.01
15 2.6 0.01 40 5.1 0.01
16 2.7 0.01 41 5.2 0.01
17 2.8 0.01 42 5.3 0.01
18 2.9 0.01 43 5.4 0.01
19 3 0.01 44 5.5 0.01
20 3.1 0.01 45 5.6 0.01
21 3.2 0.01 46 5.7 0.01
22 3.3 0.01 47 5.8 0.01
23 3.4 0.01 48 5.9 0.01
24 3.5 0.01 49 6 0.01</pre><hr />


FOR MORE NUMBER-CRUNCHING INFORMATION:
Any post by Arcanaville, including her Guide to Defense v1.4 - Updated for I7. Her extensive guides to the mechanics behind CoH inspired me to create this Power Data Standardization project back at the beginning of this year.

RedTomax has been one of the most helpful members of the community at helping me spread info about the hidden mechanics and numbers of CoX. Once he was shown how to find the exact power data the game uses, he converted it into a format that everyone can read and understand and now hosts it on his site, giving everyone access to this information. His website at nofuture.org.uk lists info on every power in the game, accurate as of the i7 build on the test server May 8.

For an incomplete listing of Scale values for powers, see this thread. It's still a work in progress, and anyone who would like to contribute is welcome to post there.


THANK YOU/ACKNOWLEDGEMENT (in no particular order) - Without you, this project would have died months ago
Arcanaville
RedTomax
Stupid_Fanboy
Scarlet_Dream
Gearloose
TopDoc
Blueeyed
UberGuy
DrObvious
Natsuki
_Brev_
Bradd
All the other contributing posters I've unintentionally forgotten to mention here
And of course, the greatest dev there is, for giving us hard numbers on countless powers: _Castle_


REPRODUCTION/USE OF THIS GUIDE
Anyone interested in the compilation of information related to the mechanics of CoH/CoV for use by players of CoH/CoV may use, copy, and distribute this guide freely, as long as this original source is cited. You may not use this guide, or any derivative works, for monetary gain.


 

Posted

Thanks, iakona! It's a big help to have everything in one place!

One possible correction: A couple of the Sleep modifiers look fishy (scrapper and stalker are 8, when it looks like 0.8 would be more appropriate). Also, the tables would be easier to read if you lined up decimal points.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
One possible correction: A couple of the Sleep modifiers look fishy (scrapper and stalker are 8, when it looks like 0.8 would be more appropriate).

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree that those scrapper and stalker values look fishy, which makes me think it's probably a bug that never got noticed, since the ranged sleep mods are likely never used for those ATs.
[ QUOTE ]
Also, the tables would be easier to read if you lined up decimal points.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll fix that in the next revision.


 

Posted

Awesome job! This format makes looking stuff up much easier as opposed to remebering which table was on which page. As always, thanks for putting this together for the rest of us, it is much appreciated. I'd reference the old guide at least a couple times a day.

You might want to have an addendum posting little tidbits of information that were mentioned in the last thread. The primary ones I can think of are:
ToHit/Defense Caps by Level (unless I missed this in the current table)
Resist debuffs use the same table as res buffs, Ranged Res Dmg.
There is no Hold table, it uses one of other mez tables (probably not the Sleep table though, as Scrapper/Stalkers have access to holds via Epics/Patrons and that modifier is nuts)
The AttribBase values for calculating mez protection magnitude

Here's a few more random statistics for you. The topic came up in another thread (thanks to Peritus and gSolo) that Power Boost's modifier follows the same scale as mez duration and is affected by the AT mez modifiers. I had a chance to test this out recently and confirmed it. At level 50, the ToHit on my controller's Tactics was boosted by 1.8625 (1.25*1.49) with PB running. At 50, my Blaster's Aid Self was boosted by 1.192 (0.8*1.49) and at 31 it was boosted by 1.0399 (close enough to 1.04 = 0.8*1.30).

A not-quite-thorough test I did indicated that the PB modifier effects mez protection in the same way as an AT modifier would, so the mez protection formula would look like:
(AT ResBool Mod * Level ResBool Mod * Power Scalar * (1 + PB mod) ) + AttribBase

When I get some time I'll test this more extensively, and also check if the Villain inverse Power Boosts (Weaken/Benumb) work the same way.

Acrobatics seems to ignore the ResBool and AT Mod values and provides a straight -2 mag protection for all ATs and levels (that I tested). It is affected by Power Boost. Combat Jumping however works per the standard formula (with a scalar of -30 if anyone cares).


 

Posted

Did you confirm the -30 scalar for Combat Jumping by testing? If so, was the test conclusive, or is a value of -24 possible? A while back I calculated a scalar value of -24 from the Prima guide data. Just curious whether it's a mistake in the guide.

On a related note, early tests on the new Domination mez protection suggest that Domination has a -30 scalar. I'm still waiting for additional data to confirm it, though.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Did you confirm the -30 scalar for Combat Jumping by testing? If so, was the test conclusive, or is a value of -24 possible? A while back I calculated a scalar value of -24 from the Prima guide data. Just curious whether it's a mistake in the guide.

[/ QUOTE ]
It was pretty conclusive. I narrowed it down to: -30.05 &lt; scalar &lt;= -29.03

Assuming:
Player Mag Protection = (AT Mod * ResBool * Scalar) + (-1)
In PvP only, Controller single target immobs are mag 5, AoE immobs are mag 4

Assuming that the scalar for standard melee mez protection is -30 per Castle in Iakona's previous thread, and that Controller/Dominator holds are mag 4 in PvP per Castle in that Aim/BU thread, I'm pretty sure both of those other assumptions are right.

If you want my raw data, let me know. I'd have to clean up my spreadsheet a bit and post it when I get home from work, though.

Edit: Forgot to qualify the immob magnitudes as PvP-only
Edit 2: Stupid negative sign on the scalar meant my inequalities were reversed.


 

Posted

-30 is believable, and it would match up with the Prima guide numbers if they're for Blasters, Defenders, Controllers, Masterminds, Dominators, and Corruptors.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One possible correction: A couple of the Sleep modifiers look fishy (scrapper and stalker are 8, when it looks like 0.8 would be more appropriate).

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree that those scrapper and stalker values look fishy, which makes me think it's probably a bug that never got noticed, since the ranged sleep mods are likely never used for those ATs.

[/ QUOTE ]

*cough*Originpower*cough*


 

Posted

OK, thanks; I trust your research, since you seem to know what you're talking about. It sounds like the author applied the 0.8 AT modifier to the protection instead of the theoretical-baseline AT mod the pool powers were supposed to get.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a few more random statistics for you. The topic came up in another thread (thanks to Peritus and gSolo) that Power Boost's modifier follows the same scale as mez duration and is affected by the AT mez modifiers. I had a chance to test this out recently and confirmed it. At level 50, the ToHit on my controller's Tactics was boosted by 1.8625 (1.25*1.49) with PB running. At 50, my Blaster's Aid Self was boosted by 1.192 (0.8*1.49) and at 31 it was boosted by 1.0399 (close enough to 1.04 = 0.8*1.30).

A not-quite-thorough test I did indicated that the PB modifier effects mez protection in the same way as an AT modifier would, so the mez protection formula would look like:
(AT ResBool Mod * Level ResBool Mod * Power Scalar * (1 + PB mod) ) + AttribBase

When I get some time I'll test this more extensively, and also check if the Villain inverse Power Boosts (Weaken/Benumb) work the same way.

[/ QUOTE ]
Based on this information, along with the numbers in the prima guide, it appears that all Power Boost-type powers (including weaken/benumb) use a modifier that is equivalent to Ranged_Stun. It looks like Power Boost adds 1.0 * Ranged_Stun to the Strength modifier, and Weaken/Benumb adds -0.5 * Ranged_Stun.

If I'm calculating all this correctly, then a level 50 Controller using Power Boost and Block of Ice slotted with 3 even hold SOs, while affected by Weaken, would have a PvP duration of:
(8 sec * 1.8625) * (1 + .9493 + (1.0 * 1.8625) + (-0.5 * 1.49)) = 45.7 sec


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
It looks like Power Boost adds 1.0 * Ranged_Stun to the Strength modifier, and Weaken/Benumb adds -0.5 * Ranged_Stun.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for mentioning that, you saved me some potential confusion when testing. So far all my tests (what few I've done on Weaken/Benumb) have confirmed this.

[ QUOTE ]
If I'm calculating all this correctly, then a level 50 Controller using Power Boost and Block of Ice slotted with 3 even hold SOs, while affected by Weaken, would have a PvP duration of:
(8 sec * 1.8625) * (1 + .9493 + (1.0 * 1.8625) + (-0.5 * 1.49)) = 45.7 sec

[/ QUOTE ]
Just finished some testing on this. Turns out, Weaken actually reduces PB's effect as well. The number above will be correct *if* Power Boost is used first, before Weaken. However, if Power Boost is activated while Weaken is active, that equation changes to:

(8 sec * 1.8625) * (1 + .9493 + (1.0 * 1.8625) * (1 - 0.5*1.49) + (-0.5 * 1.49)) = 25.0 sec


 

Posted

If you compare a Blaster vs a Corruptor in the catagory of raw damage:

Melee: Blaster (1.0) - Corruptor (.75)
Range: Blaster (1.0) - Corruptor (.75)

And you factor in their Inherent powers:

Blaster: Defiance
Corruptor: Scourge

Would you say the Corruptor makes up the difference of their lower base modifier with their Inherent, so that they about equal out in total DPS over time?

Or to put it another way, does a Corruptor kill stuff as fast as a Blaster does?


Liberty:
ColdIce - Ice/Ice Blaster
HyperToxin - Spines/Dark Scrapper
Alpha Centurian - Warshade
Black Synergy - Energy/Energy Brute
Dark Annihilator - Necro/Dark MM
@Gogan Global
Member of The LEGION, The Dekonstruktivist Union, & The Avant-Guards

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]

Or to put it another way, does a Corruptor kill stuff as fast as a Blaster does?

[/ QUOTE ]
No. Defiance is totally useless, and Scourge is completely awesome, but Corrupters still dish out damage worse than Blasters.

One of the biggest reason is that they lack Blaster melee attacks. Don't let the whole "ranged primary" thing fool you about Blasters; they're ranged attacks are almost all garbage. A Blaster has more total attacks than a Corrupter for this reason as well, meaning it's even less likely to ever not have an attack.

That being said, ever since the game changed around them, Damage is no longer the best status effect you can inflict upon an enemy. This makes Corrupters highly more offensive in nature than Blasters.


 

Posted

I recently calculated the expected (i.e., average) effects of Scourge. Ideally, it adds +25% damage. However, actual damage dealt is often significantly less because of overkill (more damage than target health remaining). The net result is that Scourge offers little benefit when using an attack that does a significant fraction of the target's total health -- for example, less than +2% when using a high-damage attack on a same-level minion -- but it approaches the ideal +25% when attacking targets with very high health, such as archvillains. Even then, corruptor attacks only deal (0.75 x 1.25) = 93.75% of blaster damage.

Here's the math for anyone who's interested in the details:

The chance of Scourge is max(0, 1 - 2h), where h is the current fraction of the enemy's health. For example, the chance of Scourge at 1/4 health is (1 - 2 x 1/4) = 50%, and the chance at 3/4 health is 0%. If you assume an equal chance of any h from 0 to 1, the average damage bonus is +25% (average 25% chance of 100% bonus damage).

The actual damage dealt is sometimes less because of overkill. Let d be the attack's damage expressed as a fraction of the target's total hit points. The most damage you can actually deal to a foe, Dmax h, is h/d. The most you can deal without Scourge, Dbase h, is min(1, Dmax h), and the most you can deal with Scourge, Dbuff h, is min(2, Dmax h). The expected damage, E h, is (max(0, 1 - 2h) x (Dbuff h - Dbase h) + Dbase h). Finally, the damage increase is (E h / Dbase h - 1). To find the average damage increase, simply calculate the definite integral for h from 0 to 1.

When d is small, the average approaches the ideal value, a +25% bonus. However, when d is 1/8 (common when fighting lieutenants), the average bonus is only +9.9%. And when d is 1/4 (common versus minions), the bonus is only +2.1%.


 

Posted

Well great, now I need a new hero planner.

Someone, get coding!


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Well great, now I need a new hero planner.

Someone, get coding!

[/ QUOTE ]

Already on it, all the data in the planner comes straight from the power data database I've been workign on with Iakona.

Still very early on, but usable nonetheless ...


 

Posted


When I tried to figure out an "AT_Mod" for Temp Powers to use with these equations based on numbers you sent me a while ago, iakona, I came up with a Mod number that scaled from 1.0 at level one, to 1.926 at level 50. Is there something I'm missing here or are temp powers an exception to these equations?


Global @StarGeek
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Posted

Man, I need to visit the guide section more. Great job on cleaning up the old thread, iakona. This looks really clean and has everything a serious seeker of CoH knowledge needs. I hope the hero planners start using all this stuff soon.

Great job, stars for you!

* * * * *


Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.

Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition

 

Posted

Iakona: in the testing thread, you indicated that you would be listing the pet modifiers soon. When will this happen and will it include the Henchmen modifiers which we recently learned about from _Castle_?

&lt;.&lt;

&gt;.&gt;

And will you tell us where you're getting all your info?


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Iakona: in the testing thread, you indicated that you would be listing the pet modifiers soon. When will this happen and will it include the Henchmen modifiers which we recently learned about from _Castle_?

[/ QUOTE ]
Soon(TM), and yes.


[ QUOTE ]
And will you tell us where you're getting all your info?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not allowed to divulge that information at this time.


 

Posted

Just thought I'd ask again.


 

Posted

Bringing a question on this post from the scalars thread over here since it's more mechanical in nature.

[ QUOTE ]
Force Bubble, Hurricane, and TK magnitude do not vary by AT and level, but are affected by strength modifiers, such as Power Boost or Weaken.

Force Bubble is Magnitude 10, while Hurricane and TK are Mag 1. Hurricane's repel is listed as an unresistable magnitude (the knockback portion is listed as resistable), while FB and TK are listed as resistable.

Increase Density provides -10 repel, knockback, and knockup protection (no resistance) for Defenders, -8 for Controllers, and -9 for Corruptors; this value is modified by anything that boosts or weakens these 3 attributes, such as power boost or weaken.

AttribBase is 1, AttribMin is 0, StrengthMin is 0, AttribMax varies by level and AT, with Blasters, Defenders, Controllers, Stalkers, Masterminds, Dominators, and Corruptors ranging (linear) from 100 at level 1 to 4 at level 49; Scrappers, Peacebringers, and Warshades range from 95 to 3 (affected by LvlMod from 1 to 20); Tankers and Brutes range from 90 to 2 (affected by LvlMod 1 to 20).

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm...does Repel mag use the same mechanic as mez?

Repel Protection = (-10 * Number of IDs) - 1

Each Repel power would add a mag to that sum and once it became positive, you would get repelled assuming you don't have 100% resist? I ask because if that's the case, something very strange is going on with my tests. Here's my results (the Lxx is there to denote what level the target(s) casting Weaken was):

<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Test Specifics #IDs required to get through modified FB
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ID AT FB AT ID Mods Base PBU Weaken PBU+Weaken Weaken+PBU PBU+2Weakens
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
50 Def 50 Def None 2 5 1 L32 4 L32 2 L32 3 L32/32
50 Def 50 Def 1 Weaken L50 2 5
50 Def 50 Def 2 Weakens L50/31 2 1 L31
50 Def 50 Def PBU 2 1 L31
50 Def 38 MM None 2 1 L31
21 Def 50 Def None 2 5
50 Cont 50 Def None 3 7 1 L24 5 L32 3 L24 3 L32/32
50 Cont 38 MM None 3 1 L31
50 Corr 50 Def None 3 6 1 L31 5 L31 2 L31 3 L50/31
50 Corr 38 MM None 3 1 L31</pre><hr />

With 2 Weakens or 2 Weakens+PBU on the bubbler, it took no IDs to overcome the repel mag and stand in the bubble. I tried it multiple times and I was never repelled until one of the Weakens wore off or during the recasting animation of a Weaken.

So I'm wondering:

When you said that PB/Weaken should should enhance ID's attributes, did you mean only KB/KD? Because it's currently not affecting ID's repel protection with even 2 Weakens on the caster.

Unless I'm missing something (probably am, happens frequently), the protection formula I wrote can't be correct unless there's some kind of modifers in use. If Controller ID is -8 and mag from IDs add together, 2 IDs should be enough to break FB, not 3. Also, if PBU affects Repel mag like it does mez protection mag, PBU'd FB should be 24.9 (10*2.49), which would take far fewer than 5 Defender IDs to break though.

I also find it interesting that though FB has a higher mag than the other two Repel powers, it can be Weakened to the point that it takes no IDs at all to protection against Repel. TK and Hurricane however will still repel an enemy when hit with stacked Weaken, albeit at an extremely reduced pulse rate. I suppose it's possible that FB is still pulsing but the rate is so low that it will never pulse before Weaken drops, however. I see in the Storm data post in the Power Scalars thread that Hurricane has an attribute of 0.75 seconds against players, is this the base pulse rate? And is there a similar number attached to FB and TK?

Also, none of the bubblers I tested with had Vanguard. Do you know if Vanguard affects Repel mag? I thought it might be possible since it affects mez protection.

Thanks!

Edit: Table broke the boards, should be fixed now


 

Posted

When I first got the data on ID, I only checked the flags for the individual protection attributes; I didn't check for the flag that sets the whole power to ignore strength modifiers, such as PB or weaken. That flag is set to True for ID, so no outside strength modifiers will affect the power; only enhancements will.

Force Bubble has a duration of 0.25 for each repel tick. Hurricane and TK are both 0.75 vs. players. Force Bubble ticks every 0.25 sec, TK ticks every 0.5 sec, and Hurricane ticks every 0.25 sec but is set to tick every 1 sec vs. players (no idea if this actually works or not). Force Bubble is set to self-stack if ticks overlap, while TK and Hurricane are set to Replace. FB and TK are set to allow both Strength and Resistance, while Hurricane only allows Strength. I'm not sure how much, if any, of this information is contributing to the results you're seeing. I've never been able to get a clear answer on the mechanics of knockback/up/repel, so I'm not entirely sure how it works.

Vanguard only affects Stun, Sleep, Confuse, Fear, Immobilize, Hold, Knockback, and Knockup.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Force Bubble ticks every 0.25 sec, TK ticks every 0.5 sec, and Hurricane ticks every 0.25 sec but is set to tick every 1 sec vs. players (no idea if this actually works or not).

[/ QUOTE ]
The Hurricane rate feels right, though the FB value seems a little bit fast. In-game vs players FB's pulse rate feels about the same as Hurricane's.

TK though definitely ticks faster than every half second. The most visible example is of a Mind Dom using TK with Domination running, you can actually see the "DOMINATION" text at each pulse. It's extremely rapid, the only time I've seen a noticeable slowdown was with stacked Weakens. At that point the pulses stop overlapping, though they're still relatively fast (maybe every 1/5-1/4 of a second, going on memory). Could there be another modifer involved?


[ QUOTE ]
I've never been able to get a clear answer on the mechanics of knockback/up/repel, so I'm not entirely sure how it works.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's unfortunate. Sorry if I'm being a little too persistant with this issue. Your responses have at least given me some numbers to mess with and try to fit my tests. Thanks again!


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Could there be another modifer involved?

[/ QUOTE ]Based on everything I've seen, I'd say it's highly unlikely. It's possible there's something I'm overlooking, but I've taken a pretty close look at all 3 powers, and haven't seen anything that indicates there could be another modifier. The calculations for repel might just be more complex than we realize.