The Red Five I7 Fire / Super Strength Guide

Kyrin · 06-21-2006 11:40 AM

Overview

The goal of this guide is to provide unbiased information on Fiery Aura and Super Strength. This guide and build focuses on using Burn offensively and defensively in PvE whether you are solo or part of a team. With that said, the build in this guide is not the best and nowhere near perfect but it works for me and it is a lot more fun. Your mileage may vary.

Where possible, I have provided numbers. This data comes from the following sources:

Posts in the CoH Tanker Forum
CoH / CoV Character Builder by SherkSilver
Buffys Guide to Tanker Primaries

Also, you might want to check out Circeus' So You Want To Know About Taunting Guide.

Synergy

Fire and Super Strength work surprisingly well together, even more so as of Issue 7. A tanker who takes Fiery Aura as his primary is giving up defense in return for resistance and extra offense in the form of Blazing Aura and Burn. Super Strength allows you to take advantage of Fires offense. In addition to your strong offense, both sets provide a lot of tools for tanking, agro management and damage mitigation.

Unlike other tankers, you lack knockback protection, immobilization protection and defense. To maximize your strengths and minimize your weaknesses, you will have to use power pools. If you are not willing to do this then playing a fire tanker can seem more like work than fun.

1) You will be running a lot of toggles with this build. That means you might have an issue with endurance. Stamina and Consume will help deal with this issue.

2) Status protection is very important for a tank and knockback is one of the most common status effects next to disorient. Immobilization protection is less of an issue for some people but still very important in my book. To deal with knockback, you need to Acrobatics, Hover or Fly.

3) Smashing and lethal are the two most common types of damage in the game. Because you lack defense, it is important to take as little damage as possible. This means using the damage mitigation tools at your disposal and taking Tough.

Now lets look at the power sets and pools that you can pick.

Fire Armor

Fire Armor is a resistance set with several offensive powers and a self-heal. You lack defense which means you will be hit more often than other tankers. You also have no immobilization protection unless you use burn and no way to negate knockback. It is also toggle heavy so endurance can be a problem especially at lower levels.

Fire Shield: This toggle provides resistance against smashing, lethal, fire and cold damage. The base resistance is 30% for smashing, lethal and fire but only 10% for cold. You probably have heard this before but it bears repeating. Smashing and lethal are probably the two most common damage types in the game. I slotted this power with 1 endurance reduction and 3 resistance enhancers.

Blazing Aura: This toggle power does fire damage to all those enemies around you. It has a built in taunt effect so that you can use this power to help you manage agro as well as supplement your offense. It also gives you another damage type besides smashing. I slotted this power with 1 endurance reduction, 1 taunt, 1 accuracy and 3 damage enhancers.

Healing Flames: Though plagued with a long activation time, this power is a decent self heal. With a few slots, you will have it available when you need it. It also provides 20% resistance to toxic damage. I slotted this power with 3 recharge, 1 end reduction and 2 heal enhancers.

Temperature Protection: This automatic power gives you resistance to cold and fire. Base resistance is 10% to cold and 20% to fire. In my opinion, there are a lot more important powers that you can pick up and slot. I didnt take this power in my build.

Consume: By activating this power, you will gain endurance from each enemy around you. This power has a built in taunt effect making it useful for agro management. Even though this power does some fire damage, I would not slot this power with damage. I slotted this power with 3 recharge, 1 accuracy and 1 endurance mod enhancer.

Plasma Shield: This toggle provides resistance against energy, negative energy and fire damage. The base resistance is 30%. It also provides sleep and hold protection. I would pick this power up ASAP but hold off on slotting it till the 20s. I slotted this power with 1 endurance reduction and 3 resistance enhancers.

Burn: This power creates a ground based area of effect that inflicts fire damage-over-time. Enemies will try to leave to burn patch to avoid taking damage. Despite this, Burn is quite useful offensively and defensively once you practice using the power. Burn also provides immobilization protection. I slotted this power with 3 recharge and 3 damage enhancers. With this slotting, there is only 10 seconds of downtime during which I use my super strength attacks to finish off my enemies.

Note: Some enemies are resistant or immune to the fear effect of Burn. They will stay in a Burn patch and just eat the damage. This might be by design or it could be a bug but some of these same enemies are resistant to fear powers such as Touch of Fear. These enemies include Nemesis Jaegers, Rikti Drones, and other robots.

Fiery Embrace: This power boosts your damage. I find it more useful for tankers with fire melee but you can still use this power to boost burn, blazing aura and your other attacks. It adds 100% more to your base damage of your fire powers for 20 seconds but the duration is only 10 seconds for your non-fire powers. I didnt take this power for my build.

Rise of the Phoenix: This power will resurrect you 50% of your hit points and endurance. It will also inflict fire damage to any foe in the area of effect as well as disorient them. Though I do not know the magnitude of the disorient. You will be immune to damage for a short time allowing you to turn on your toggles. Like all self rez powers, you are protected from debt for a short time after using this power. This is the last power that I picked and I think I have only used it twice.

Super Strength

To me, nothing has a more comic book feel than Super Strength. It is one of the better tanker primaries even though it does all smashing damage and gets its damage AOE late in the game. You get access to one of the best single target damage attack by level 20. Most Super Strength attacks have a knockdown component to them which makes it an excellent secondary for mitigating damage to you and your team. It also has the added benefit of giving you a way to keep enemies within your Burn and Blazing Aura.

I suggest slotting all offensive attacks with 1 end, 1 accuracy and 3 damage enhancers even if you have stamina. Fire is a toggle heavy set and you may need to cut down your end usage when you can. I would also slot a recharge enhancers in powers like Haymaker, Knockout Blow and Foot Stomp.

Jab: You perform a quick punch that deals minor damage and has a chance of disorienting an enemy. Like all starting attacks, its not that good but it will help fill out your attack chain. The fast recharge time on this power makes it extremely useful for maintaining agro. Some prefer not to slot this power much. Youll have to decide for yourself.

Punch: You perform a punch that does moderate damage. It does better damage than Jab but has a slower recycle time. This attack has a chance to knockdown a target when you hit them. Although I liked this power, I went with Air Superiority which works better for this build and my playstyle.

Haymaker: This attack does high damage and has a better chance to knockdown foes. I use this as part of my attack chain and it helps take down enemies pretty quickly. It benefits from a recharge enhancer so that you always have an attack ready to fire off.

Taunt: This area of effect power allows you to taunt enemies into attacking you. Unlike Provoke, Taunt never misses. I wont get into the debate about whether or not you need to take Taunt. Its a useful tool for agro management but you have a lot of tools at your disposal already. Originally, I took taunt early in the game but with Gauntlet, you can wait till later to pick up this power especially if you solo more than group. With I used my I7 respec, I took it later and slotted it with a recharge enhancer so that it would be available when I needed it.

Hand Clap: This area of effect power does no damage but it can disorient enemies and knock them BACK. Yes, this power does knockback which can be problematic especially if you are trying to maintain agro or keep enemies in a tight group. Still, this power is useful for when you or someone else on your team are getting overwhelmed. I skipped this power because I can use burn for the same purpose.

Knockout Blow: This attack does extreme damage and has a chance to hold your enemy. It is an awesome power with a cool animation. I can't say enough good things about this power. The hold works almost all the time and it is useful for offense as well as defense because of the hold component.

Rage: This power will boost your damage by 80% and accuracy by 50%. It lasts for 120 seconds. At the end of the duration, you will only be able to use powers that affect yourself. This power balances super strength against the other tanker secondaries and it will increase the damage of Burn making it extremely useful. Rage used in combination with Fiery Embrace, Blazing Aura and Burn is a thing of beauty.

Hurl: Im not a big fan of this attack power because of the long animation time and short range. It does have a fly component. My advice is to try the power on the test server and see if it works for you. I skipped this power.

Foot Stomp: You only area effect damage attack. It does moderate damage and has a chance to knockdown enemies. Foot Stomp can only be used when you are on the ground. It is useful for taking out groups of enemies as well as for agro management. It works well when you combine it with Burn. This is another power that needs a recharge enhancer.

Power Pools

Power pools are a good way to flesh out your character and to compensate for any weaknesses in your build. You can choose power pools for the most optimum build or for role-playing and character conception. I'm not going to try and re-invent the wheel. Others have written a lot about the various power pools so I will just touch on them briefly.

Concealment: This power pool helps you avoid enemies as well as increase your defense. It excels at allowing you scout areas and move freely without fear of attack. Most of these powers are best used before you get into trouble or encounter an enemy even though Stealth, Grant Invisibility and Phase Shift can be used in combat. It has a lot of uses in PvP.

Fighting: Because fire tankers have no defense, it is important to take as little damage as possible. Tough allows you to maximize your resistance to smashing and lethal damage. Base resistance is 15% for tankers. I would stay away from Weave, the paltry defense is not worth maintaining another toggle power. The base defense is around 4%.

Fitness: This power pool is very good for decreasing your downtime. There are more than enough posts about stamina and how to slot it. Do you need Stamina? Yes and no. Lets face it, micro-managing your endurance is not fun. You have enough to worry about without adding endurance management to the list. Even with Stamina, you will have to careful with your endurance and possible use Consume to supplement your endurance. You wont regret taking Health and Stamina but you might regret skipping them. I recommend that you take this power pool.

Leadership: This power pool has three toggle powers that give a bonus to your teams defense, damage and accuracy. Its not a bad power pool for a tanker but there are better choices. For me, the endurance cost for maintaining these toggles was not worth the return. A few people take Tactics, using it as a ghetto Targeting Drone. If accuracy is a concern, slot your powers with an extra accuracy enhancer or pick up the Energy Mastery for Focused Accuracy.

Medicine: In general, it is not the best power pool for a fire tanker. Aid Self works surprising well for those with defense to avoid attacks like ice tankers and super reflex scrappers. I wouldnt get this pool as a fire tanker.

Presence: This is another pool with a lot of posts about it. As a tanker, you dont need Challenge or Provoke though the fear powers can be incredibly useful especially useful in PvP. I wouldnt worry about this pool unless I was focusing on PvP.

Travel Power Pools: Any of the travel power pools will work well for a Fire Tanker though I recommend the Leaping pool. It all comes down to playstyle, character conception and which works best for you.

Super Speed gives you access to Hasten and the fastest movement power in the game. Even though Hasten cannot be made permanent, it is still very useful while Super Speed has a stealth component for PvE allowing you to use this power for scouting missions and traveling safely.

Teleport takes some getting used to and it is a bit easier with a teleport bind. Recall Friend comes in handy for those who group a lot. Also, Teleport Foe is good for pulling especially at lower levels and for those enemies that get stuck in walls and floors. It is also very useful in PvP.

The Leaping power pool gives you access to a movement power with good speed and several defensive powers that will eliminate the holes in fiery auras status protection. Combat Jumping gives you immobilization protection. Acrobatics gives you knockback protection and more hold protection.

Flight is the slowest movement power but it is the easiest to use and control. It shines in several areas that are not super speed or super jump friendly like the Shadow Shard. It has the best power pool attack in the game, Air Superiority which is very useful for this build. I would take this pool just for Air Superiority. As an alternative, you can use Hover or Flight to help deal with knockback but you will still need to something to help against immobilizations. Remember Burn does not work unless you are on the ground.

Tanker Ancillary Power Pools

You gain access to these powers at level 41. Like power pools, they are a good way to flesh out your character and to compensate for any weaknesses in your build. Choose the one that fits best for you.

Energy Mastery: With Conserve Power your powers use less endurance when activated which is very useful. Focused Accuracy is a toggle power that increases the accuracy of your powers. With no slotting, it is better than an accuracy SO. I would slot this power with 3 end and 3 to hit buffs. Laser Beam Eyes is a good ranged attack that does moderate damage and reduces your target's Defense. Energy Torrent is a cone area effect that does knockdown.

Pyre Mastery: Ring of Fire is a single target immobilize that deals minor damage over time. Char is much better because it is a hold that can stack with the hold from Knockout Blow. Fire blast is a ranged fire attack that does moderate damage and Fireball is an area effect attack that also does moderate damage.

Arctic Mastery: All powers in this pool will reduce an enemys movement speed and recharge rate. This works well with Chilling Embrace. Chilblain is a single target immobilize that deals moderate damage over time while Block of Ice is a hold. Ice Blast is a ranged attack that does moderate damage. Ice Storm is a location based AE that does minor damage. It will also cause enemies to run in fear and scatter.

Earth Mastery: All powers in this pool will reduce an enemys defense. Stone Cages is a single target immobilize that deals moderate damage over time and grounds aerial opponents. Salt Crystals is an area effect sleep which is a nice attack for emergencies. Fossilize is a single target hold that deals moderate damage over time. Stalagmites is an area effect that does moderate damage and can disorient an enemy.

Slotting and Picking Powers

Focus on your primary and more critical powers. You want to slot powers that increase your survivability and help you deal damage. For instance, I would slot Stamina before slotting a power like Temperature Protection. There will be plenty of time to work on your other powers later.

Remember the rules concerning enhancing powers and enhancement diversification so you do not waste slots. If you dont know what this is, read one of the many posts in the CoH forum on this topic.

Use a hero planner to plot out your characters development and the Training Room to test out powers you are unfamiliar with. Respecs can be hard to come by and there is nothing worse than screwing up your build without a respect available to fix it. Sure it takes a little extra time to do but it is well worth it.

Leveling

Leveling a fire tanker is fairly easy in group situations. Your role might vary from team to team but its all about using teamwork. When soloing, avoid enemies that are resistant to your attacks and have resistance debuffs. In the beginning, it will be slow going but once you get single origin enhancers, your leveling speed will increase. It will take off once you pick up Foot Stomp and slot up your attacks.

PvP

Needless to say, PvP is a lot different than PvE. You will be dealing with the most dangerous enemies in the game, your fellow players.

To be honest, I dont do a lot of PvP with my Fire tanker. I only use him in Bloody Bay and Recluses Victory. In both areas Burn works wonders on turrets and pillboxes.

My advice for PvP is to find a group, be alert, carry lots of break frees and read one of the other guides on PvP so you know what youre getting into.

My Build

Currently, this is that I use. It is geared for PvE and makes use of Burn for team and solo play. As said earlier, this build is far from perfect but it works for me. I find that it works well me. The build that I use can solo spawns in the Rikti Crash Site fast and efficiently with little or no downtime.

Originally, I took Taunt at a much lower level. Now that tankers have Gauntlet, I decided to take it later in my build. You can use Gauntlet to manage agro at lower levels as long as you're actively attacking and keeping an eye on your team mates.

I also moved Blazing Aura and Consume to later in my build. Blazing Aura was a drain on my endurance until I picked up Stamina and I tend to use Consume for emergency endurance recovery or a means to grab additional agro.

I went with Pyre Mastery for my APP pool so I can have a hold for Hammidon raids and a little surprise for PvP. I also use it to in combination with Knockout Blow to stack a hold on a boss. I might respec out of it since I do not use it all that often.

Finally and most importantly, Air Superiority and Knockout Blow are a big part of this build. You could make this build work without them but it would take a lot of extra work. I took and slotted both powers as soon as I could.

Level 01: Fire Shield - Endurance Reduction, Resistance (x3)
Level 01: Jab - Endurance Reduction, Accuracy, Damage (x3)
Level 02: Healing Flames - Endurance Reduction, Recharge Reduction (x3), Heal (x2)
Level 04: Haymaker - Endurance Reduction, Accuracy, Recharge, Damage (x3)
Level 06: Air Superiority - Endurance Reduction, Accuracy, Damage (x3)
Level 08: Swift - Run Speed
Level 10: Combat Jumping - Endurance Reduction
Level 12: Plasma Shield - Endurance Reduction, Resistance (x3)
Level 14: Super Jump Jump (x2)
Level 16: Health Heal (x3)
Level 18: Burn Recharge (x3), Damage (x3)
Level 20: Knockout Blow - Endurance Reduction, Accuracy, Recharge, Damage (x3)
Level 22: Stamina - Endurance Modification (x6)
Level 24: Acrobatics - Endurance Reduction
Level 26: Boxing - Endurance Reduction
Level 28: Rage - Recharge Reduction (x2), To Hit Buff
Level 30: Tough - Endurance Reduction, Resistance (x3)
Level 32: Blazing Aura - Endurance Reduction, Taunt, Accuracy, Damage (x3)
Level 35: Taunt - Recharge Reduction
Level 38: Foot Stomp - Endurance Reduction, Accuracy, Recharge Reduction, Damage (x3)
Level 41: Char - Endurance Reduction, Accuracy, Recharge Reduction, Hold
Level 44: Fly - Endurance Reduction, Flight Speed (x3)
Level 47: Consume Recharge Reduction (x3), Endurance Modification, Accuracy
Level 49: Rise of the Phoenix Recharge Reduction

Strategy: Using Burn

Its easy to use Burn on teams with a controller or defender who is able to hold or immobilize enemies. Just remember, youre part of a team and have to work together. Make sure that you are on the same page as the rest of the team. Some teams may not need you tot burn down enemies while others will jump for joy.

Using Burn when soloing is a different story. The fear factor can make using Burn a little tricky. You have to take advantage of the knockdowns in Super Strength and Air Superiority if you want to use Burn offensively.

Against small groups, you wont need burn but it does make fights against LTs, bosses and elite bosses go a lot quicker. Start off the combat with a hold or knockdown attack. While your target gets up, light them up with Burn then knock them down again. The other enemies will take damage running into and out of the Burn patch, softening them up for you to take care of later.

Against large groups, target the boss or LT that you want to take out first. Start off with Foot Stomp then use Burn while everyone is climbing to their feet. Follow up with Air Superiority and other attacks to keep your target down. Its that simple. With Rage and Blazing Aura, this tactic is a death sentence for minions. While you wait for Burn and Foot Stomp to recharge, cycle through your other attacks. Even with enemies running in and out of your Burn patch, you will take them out quickly.

As an alternative, you can spread your attacks around to keep as many enemies as possible knocked down or held but that requires a bit more work. I like to focus on one or two enemies to keep them knocked down. This way, I can guarantee they will eat the full damage from Burn while the rest of the enemies run in and out of the Burn patch.

Defensively, Burn provides you with additional damage mitigation. Enemies that are running are enemies that are not damaging you or your team. You can place Burn in an emergency if you or someone else is taking too much damage in melee combat. You can also place burn so that any enemies who want to melee your teammates will have to run through the Burn patch. Many will just turn around and go back the way they came. Just use your imagination and you fill start coming up with some fun uses for this power.

Final Words

I hope this guide has helped you. The most important thing to remember is to have fun. If you have any questions or spot any errors, feel free to contact me via the forums.

Captain Booth - Necro / Storm Mastermind
Operative Cole - Soldier of Arachnos
Tango One - Fire / SS Tanker

gWrath · 06-21-2006 12:04 PM

Good guide. Answered a lot of the questions I've had re: this power set combination esp. Burn and Hand Clap. Thanks for taking the time.

IEatLunch · 08-02-2006 11:49 AM

Hi Kyrin,

Excellent post. Lots of great info here, clearly written and well presented. I run an FA/SS Tank on champion and am loving the hurt I'm putting on fools who don't know what time it is!

I would like to say that skipping Feiry Embrace and taking Rise of the Phoenix is the only thing in this post I disagreed with. I am not criticizing you or anything, just saying that FE with 3 recharge redux is a huge asset to this build. It comes up fairly often and enhances Blazing Aura, Burn and Consume for a significant period of time. In addition it enhances all other attacks for 10 secs. While this seems like almost no time, you can really lay into some people in that 10 second window. Like you, I use my SS attacks and AS to keep foes inside my Burn patch, but when I start the chain, my KO Blow, Burn, AS and Haymaker all have the benefit of FE and Rage. The difference in damage is simply amazing.

Thanks again for the great post and just wanted to put in my 2 cents worth.

Centinull · 08-02-2006 01:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Excellent post. Lots of great info here, clearly written and well presented.

[/ QUOTE ]

I definitely agree.

I do however have one slight criticism

[ QUOTE ]
Where possible, I have provided numbers.

[/ QUOTE ]

There weren't many numbers presented at all.

Centinull

Kyrin · 08-02-2006 02:46 PM

I had to take them out, all the numbers I had were out of date and I didn't want to give bad info. When issue 8 goes in, I'll redo the guide and add the numbers.

Captain Booth - Necro / Storm Mastermind
Operative Cole - Soldier of Arachnos
Tango One - Fire / SS Tanker

Blastwall · 09-25-2006 08:46 AM

I really like the guide, and agree with most of what you say...and you were very careful to point out that playstyle has a huge effect on what you choose. All in all probably the best Tank guide that I have read.

Syth · 10-13-2006 07:36 PM

I've been playing villains for a lil bit now and when i decided i was going to get heroes, i decided i was going to play a tank. i looked at a few different tank guides and decided after reading your guide that this was the build for me.

Great guide. thanks a ton for the help!

WELLDONE · 10-18-2006 08:16 AM

hmmmm gotta disagree with ya on some things....1. i take blazing aura much sooner. 2 get hurdle it goes with combat jump and super jump. 3 take fiery embrace. 4 take fireball. taking fireball means you have to take fyreblast. these 2 attacks are effected by FE so you really really see alot more dmg. all in all a decent guide but i got to put my 2 cents in

_r0y_ · 10-18-2006 08:43 AM

Simply put. This is not a well-thought-out Fire/SS guide.

Indulge me. I have had a fire/ss tank since issue 1 (my 3rd toon ever rolled, Ramblin Roy). I've shelved him during the big nerfs; I've dusted him off post i6; continue to play him off-and-on.

Here's some pointers that I think you SEVERELY underestimated and/or just did not grasp:

1) BLAZING AURA - this is far and away your most damage-dealing attack other than burn. Don't believe me? Run HERO STATS for a spell and see who comes in as the biggest damage-dealer. Well, it will if you tank properly (i.e. with MOBS and not single-target).

2) HURDLE. Wow, you missed that one. SJ or CJ without HURDLE is just torture. Sure, SJ is ok, but why not boost that travel power IMMENSELY? Not to mention the old Hurdle+CJ poor-man's travel (pre level 14). Or the PvP advantages. You won't really need the extra slot in SJ, either...

3) You have 1 slot in boxing (end reducer) - change that to an ACC at least. Use boxing's slight chance to disorient to add to jab's and you have a decent 1-2 combo with an ok chance to disorient mobs (minions, lts, pvpers).

4) RAGE: six slot that bad-boy ASAP! 3 recharges and 3 to-hits. You can (and will) have a DOUBLE-STACKED rage for about 10 seconds before the first drops. Double-Raged KO & Burn? Thank you.

5) You skipped Fiery Embrace; you understand it is only 10 seconds for non-burn, but still... double-stacked rage+FE+KB/Burn... plus you can then be ubers with the Fire Epic (can you say rage+FE+Fireball?)

6) Taunt. I skipped it; it's only use for a tank is PvP (or if you are on the taunt-team in a hami raid). In pvp, taunt can be UBER for your squishies. With SS, though, you'll likely be hunting/chasing/killing in PvP, so taunt is optional. No complaints about taking it/not taking it, but if you are, try to work it in BEFORE level 30 (Siren's Call limit).

7) Consume. You take it at level 47?! [censored]? Did you NOT have endurance issues for the first 46 levels? Ouch. Get this as early as you can! 1 ACCs, 2-3 rech., 2-3 end mods. As you accurately pointed out, endurance WILL be an issue. So why put off your +END power so late? Stamina is OK, but you will be wanting MORE. Lots more.

8) You take FLY? I presume for the Shard... You'd be better off with Fireblast and Fireball (then Rise). Fiery Embrace REALLY works well with the blast powers. Char is broken (or it's "Tanker Char") in that it will never do more than ticks of -1.

9) Here's a different build, which I feel is more survivable in both the PvP and PvE worlds:

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name: A Better Fire/SS Tank
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Fiery Aura
Secondary: Super Strength
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Blazing Aura==> Acc(1)EndRdx(3)EndRdx(9)Dmg(46)Dmg(46)Dmg(50)
01) --> Jab==> Acc(1)Dmg(7)Dmg(9)Dmg(15)
02) --> Fire Shield==> EndRdx(2)DmgRes(3)DmgRes(7)DmgRes(36)
04) --> Haymaker==> Acc(4)Dmg(5)Dmg(5)Dmg(15)EndRdx(40)
06) --> Hurdle==> Jump(6)
08) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(8)
10) --> Healing Flames==> Rechg(10)Rechg(11)Rechg(11)Heal(40)Heal(46)Heal(50)
12) --> Plasma Shield==> EndRdx(12)DmgRes(13)DmgRes(13)DmgRes(36)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Health==> Heal(16)Heal(17)Heal(17)
18) --> Burn==> Dmg(18)Dmg(19)Dmg(19)Rechg(25)Rechg(34)Rechg(34)
20) --> Knockout Blow==> Acc(20)Dmg(21)Dmg(21)Dmg(25)EndRdx(34)
22) --> Stamina==> EndMod(22)EndMod(23)EndMod(23)
24) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(24)
26) --> Fiery Embrace==> Rechg(26)Rechg(27)Rechg(27)
28) --> Rage==> Rechg(28)Rechg(29)Rechg(29)TH_Buf(33)TH_Buf(33)TH_Buf(43)
30) --> Consume==> Acc(30)EndMod(31)EndMod(31)Rechg(31)Rechg(33)Rechg(37)
32) --> Boxing==> Acc(32)
35) --> Tough==> EndRdx(35)DmgRes(36)DmgRes(37)DmgRes(37)
38) --> Foot Stomp==> Acc(38)Dmg(39)Dmg(39)Dmg(39)EndRdx(40)
41) --> Char==> Acc(41)EndRdx(42)Hold(42)Rechg(42)Rechg(43)Rechg(43)
44) --> Fire Blast==> Acc(44)Dmg(45)Dmg(45)Dmg(45)
47) --> Fire Ball==> Acc(47)Dmg(48)Dmg(48)Dmg(48)EndRdx(50)
49) --> Rise of the Phoenix==> Rechg(49)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Gauntlet==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------

Granted, slotting will change around when you're lower level, mid level, and upper level - using respecs, etc. But the type of slots are what matter (not so much as WHEN you get them). Besides, I just whipped this out in a couple of minutes.

I would skip AS - although I know it works WONDERFULLY with burn, but it is such a tight build as it is. Not sure what I could sacrifice for AS; *maybe* Fiery Embrace - if I didn't go the Fire Epic route (and I've tried them all with my Fire/SS, and FIRE is the best).

However, it is as you say: HAVE FUN. Lot of people like fly; lots of people don't herd, etc. If you like fast leveling, no-PvP, then a Fire/Fire is the way to go. Fire/SS is decent PvE and pretty good PvP.

My fire/ss is always challenged by that FOTM robot/dark MM, who may or may not TP Foe me into their midst. BIG mistake. I'm Fire/SS, silly!

Good Luck with your builds everyone, and take all the guides and advice with a grain of salt. Epsecially my advice. ;-)

-FyreBlast
(Ramblin Roy level 50 fire/ss/fire on Infinity)

"Look how many pages of crap are in this thread already!" -r0y to all threads on these forums.

Kyrin · 10-19-2006 12:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Simply put. This is not a well-thought-out Fire/SS guide.

Indulge me. I have had a fire/ss tank since issue 1 (my 3rd toon ever rolled, Ramblin Roy). I've shelved him during the big nerfs; I've dusted him off post i6; continue to play him off-and-on.

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I don't have a problem with people who disagree with me or have constructive criticism. I do have a problem with you saying that the guide isn't well-thought out.

The purpose of the guide is to offer information and share some of the things that worked for my fire tank when it comes to using Burn. I try to be unbiased and at no point do I say that the build presented within the guide is the best or most effective.

FYI, I also played my fire/ss tanker back when burn was godlike. I also play an ice/em tanker that I got to 50 before ice armor stacked and it was fotm for pvp.

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Here's some pointers that I think you SEVERELY underestimated and/or just did not grasp:

1) BLAZING AURA - this is far and away your most damage-dealing attack other than burn. Don't believe me? Run HERO STATS for a spell and see who comes in as the biggest damage-dealer. Well, it will if you tank properly (i.e. with MOBS and not single-target).

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I don't need hero stats to tell me how effective blazing aura is. It's one of the best damage auras in the game and it is incredibly useful for a tank. Just because I took it late in my build (a build that I respecced into), does not mean I see the power as useless or ineffective. I should have mentioned that the build posted was a respec build and that I don't exemplar down past level 35 with my fire tank.

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2) HURDLE. Wow, you missed that one. SJ or CJ without HURDLE is just torture. Sure, SJ is ok, but why not boost that travel power IMMENSELY? Not to mention the old Hurdle+CJ poor-man's travel (pre level 14). Or the PvP advantages. You won't really need the extra slot in SJ, either...

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There are lots of advantages to taking hurdle and some for taking Swift. It all comes down to personal choice and character concept. If I was writing a guide about the best or min/max build for a fire tank, I might put a greater emphasis on Hurdle.

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3) You have 1 slot in boxing (end reducer) - change that to an ACC at least. Use boxing's slight chance to disorient to add to jab's and you have a decent 1-2 combo with an ok chance to disorient mobs (minions, lts, pvpers).

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To be honest, I don't use boxing at all. If I did, I would devote more slots to it. For me, it is just a power that is not on my bar but it was either boxing or kick to get Tough. Accuracy would be a better choice than endurance if I plan to use the power but I have this habit of slotting my powers with an endurance reducer.

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4) RAGE: six slot that bad-boy ASAP! 3 recharges and 3 to-hits. You can (and will) have a DOUBLE-STACKED rage for about 10 seconds before the first drops. Double-Raged KO & Burn? Thank you.

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With two recharge enhancers, Rage is down for approximately 20 seconds. During ten of those seconds, you are unable to attack and can only use powers that affect yourself. If you have the slots to spare then 6 slotting rage is smart but if you don't then 3 slots works well and if you get access to Membranes (which is pretty easy on some servers), you only need three slots.

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5) You skipped Fiery Embrace; you understand it is only 10 seconds for non-burn, but still... double-stacked rage+FE+KB/Burn... plus you can then be ubers with the Fire Epic (can you say rage+FE+Fireball?)

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If I was fire secondary or had more fire damage power, I would have kept it in my build. For me, it wasn't worth the tradeoff even though it does increase non-fire damage.

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6) Taunt. I skipped it; it's only use for a tank is PvP (or if you are on the taunt-team in a hami raid). In pvp, taunt can be UBER for your squishies. With SS, though, you'll likely be hunting/chasing/killing in PvP, so taunt is optional. No complaints about taking it/not taking it, but if you are, try to work it in BEFORE level 30 (Siren's Call limit).

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One reason for taking Taunt is for AV fights. There have been problems holding AV agro with Gauntlet. There are a few threads discussing this. I picked it up later because the mid and high 30s is when you start to see AVs in missions.

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7) Consume. You take it at level 47?! [censored]? Did you NOT have endurance issues for the first 46 levels? Ouch. Get this as early as you can! 1 ACCs, 2-3 rech., 2-3 end mods. As you accurately pointed out, endurance WILL be an issue. So why put off your +END power so late? Stamina is OK, but you will be wanting MORE. Lots more.

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Actually, I never had any endurance issues because I slotted each power with an endurance reduction. I picked up consume at level 47 to deal with the increasing number of enemies who sap or drain endurance. If I had endurance issues, I would have picked it up a lot sooner especially if I was going without Fitness.

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8) You take FLY? I presume for the Shard... You'd be better off with Fireblast and Fireball (then Rise). Fiery Embrace REALLY works well with the blast powers. Char is broken (or it's "Tanker Char") in that it will never do more than ticks of -1.

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I took fly because I like it. It's safe, fun and it also fit with the concept that I had for the character. Are their more effective movement powers? Yes, depending on the circumstances and where you play at.

Would I be better off with more damage? Maybe but I find that the damage I do with burn and my secondary powers is enough to get the job done whether I am solo or on teams. I kept Char for locking down an annoying minion or lt not for the damage.

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9) Here's a different build, which I feel is more survivable in both the PvP and PvE worlds:

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I'm not going to comment on your build. If it works for you and you have fun with it then more power to you. I'm not going to get into a discussion about the 'best' build. The best build is the one that works for you and that you have fun playing.

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I would skip AS - although I know it works WONDERFULLY with burn, but it is such a tight build as it is. Not sure what I could sacrifice for AS; *maybe* Fiery Embrace - if I didn't go the Fire Epic route (and I've tried them all with my Fire/SS, and FIRE is the best).

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Like I said, the guide wasn't about making the best fire tanker. It was geared toward presenting information and some tactics for using this incarnation of Burn.

EDIT: Tried to make my point a little clearer. Who knows if it worked or not.

Captain Booth - Necro / Storm Mastermind
Operative Cole - Soldier of Arachnos
Tango One - Fire / SS Tanker

_r0y_ · 11-03-2006 07:10 PM

(gah! see what happens when I don't add threads to favorites)

OK. I was a bit harsh saying the guide was not well thought-out; however, if you are talking about a build you respec into, and it's NOT a "best of" type thing - why call it a guide? Shouldn't you say, "My Fire/SS build" instead?

By using the whole "guide" concept, newer players (or older ones who've not done a fire/ss) might get the impression that this is how one is to build a good fire/ss tank. I've seen only a few really decent guides here, and they usually have "this is for levels 1-20, this is for 20-30, etc." builds after the descriptions.

I should have read your disclaimer in the opening a little better, but instead I just jumped into the "meat" of it and found it a little lean for me.

At the very least we have a good discussion on the merits of a fire/ss build (yours, mine, whomever adds) so newer players can see other points of view.

Again, I appologize for the harsh tone, but I didn't agree with the direction of the build and I saw so many "this is great!" replies which led me to think some folks might be perplexed early on in their fire/ss careers if they (level-for-level) follow the original guide. It's a late-in-life respec guide. Fine. That's now clear.

One caveat that I would add to any "late-in-life" guides: Think about what you lose if/when you exemp down - if you ever plan on ex'ing (great way to make infamy or pay off debt while earning prestige). It's why many people still take their travel at 14, even when respec'ing at 50.

-r0y
(Ramblin Roy, 50 fire/ss tank, Infinity)

"Look how many pages of crap are in this thread already!" -r0y to all threads on these forums.

EmpireForgotten · 11-04-2006 07:12 AM

BLAZING AURA AND TAUNT FTL!!!

If you don't even take those powers, You can then skip acrobatics and pick up the entire medicine pool. Not attacking/taunting things = No aggro = no knockback.

Defenanker anyone?

Sole_Savior · 11-26-2006 01:02 PM

Kyrin... i totally love ur guide!!!

Rendezvous Fire/SR Scrapper 50 (Main), Sole Savior Kat/WP scrapper 50, Papillon Noir DM/SR Stalker 50
Cascavela NW 50