Nullifer VS. Brute with Unstoppable=dead brute

I can't say i've ever had this experience, but MAN would i be PO'd. Note to Self: Avoid longbow nullifiers.

@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian

Thank you for at least putting something a little bigger on the table. Now here's my angle.

I went in and just flat out tested it out. With 3 rec reds with a single + on hasten and overload, overload ran 3 mins on, 4 mins off. If you time it properly you could have Overload available for taking alphas and eliminating the problem mobs for half the groups you fight. If you get lucky you can even prevent the end bar crash from killing any toggles by hitting a blue as it drops, then energy drain, kill on. If you had 2 brutes with Overload...problem solved. If you have a kinetics and/or radiation corruptor that could also lessen the issue with AM or Speed. The fact that you can't have it available all the times you need it is true, but at least you can improve everyone's survival chances somewhat. In a group it's so easy for something to go wrong against the 40+ and end up in a party wipe (healer gets emp'd, tank gets held, kd'd, stunned, dead), so until more methods against it are figured out, at least Overload can help.

The only other note I have is that I was speaking purely from a grouped standpoint. 40+ longbow solo, unless you're playing relentless, aren't a deadly threat...they're a friggin irritating threat but not deadly. Nullifiers are the ones that turn longbow into nastiness. If an EMP grenade or hold drops toggles nullifiers always seem to be right there ready to knock you down or beanbag you which can be serious trouble. The only time I really prefer to hit Overload solo is when I'm going to go pop the boss or if I get into some sort of unforseen issue (double group agro, etc).

Finally, my one objective with citing overload in all this was just to point out that EA has some worthwhile skills in it. People who think that it sucks because it doesn't have a self heal are missing out, and that's why I brought the whole thing up in the first place. Honestly, with overload and energy drain in there if EA had a self heal I'd think the set was overpowered...

Oh, I don't think EA is overpowered or underpowered, I just don't think that using uber powers should be offered as a 'solution' to problems. If you HAVE to use them, like I said, something's not balanced.

My main concern about EA is that it's defense, and not resist-based. From all the stories I hear, enemies with to-hit buffs can just negate your entire defensive sets. And blasters like to brag about how they can 3-shot an EA brute from full to dead without even dropping toggles (aim + bu give like 150% acc buff WITHOUT SLOTS).

(In the tanker forums, people tout that invul tankers should pop unstoppable ALWAYS -- that's a workaround, not a real fix to anything.)

I had a huge post I wrote for this but it sounded too argumentative so I deleted it. Gonna try to summarize...

The impression I get is that you believe every class should have an equal chance of defeating every other class. And part of that equality is that every skill should be good, no great skills to counter lacking skills, everything equal. You believe that defense isn't good enough, that resistance is better. You believe that strategies like using unstoppable, are not strategies, but "workarounds" (define workaround and why it's bad, can't figure this one out).

Would that be accurate?

Overload = Nerfbait.

Someone important mentioned that it was going to be "looked" at. Can't remember exactly now. It's a bit unfair when you compare it to the Unstoppable crash.

No, you're pretty wrong about what I mean.

Statesman has stated, elsewhere, that defense isn't really scaling. Resistance is a flat out resistance, whatever comes in is reduced by 'x' amount. If it's huge damage from someone +3, it's reduced the same.

Defense, otoh, works differently... from the formulas to calculate to-hit, it seems that you add accuracy and subtract defense, or something similar. Considering how higher enemies have to-hit bonuses over you, a small measure of defense just won't be that effective. And once you DO get hit, you'll be killed.

Again, if you had read what I said, you'd see that statesman also mentioned that defense is being studied, to see how it can be reworked so it DOES scale.

Against +0, though, defense does work really well.

But right now, if something just has TOO much accuracy, it'll blow past your defenses. And since you have no resistance, you'll take the full brunt of the blow.

And the blaster story: vs. blasters (if they're not blappers) my brute can do pretty well, most of the time. They can NOT one-shot me with 3 attacks. I might be hurt bad, but I'm still alive, I can pop DP or eat insps. And if I get to them, I can turn the tables. From the story of the blaster, he 3-shotted the EA brute. Pure defense also has that disadvantage: when you do get hit by something big, you drop FAST.

And of course they're strategies. They're just not GOOD strategies. Cooldowns are something you should use in exceptional situations. Otherwise you're fighting 3 minutes and waiting 4. If your winning a fight has to rely on some massively powerful cooldown of yours, you have to reevaluate your strategy or your build or the enemies.

I mean, I could build a strategy which involves my keeping 4 purple insps active on me always. And head back to town to buy more, when I run out. It really is not a good tactic; it's desperation. Overload and unstoppable are the sort of thing you pop if you need to take aggro from an AV. Not because a certain LT-level minion can make everything else you have superfluous.

I really hope they don't touch it, and instead buff other similar powers. Though it does seem odd that elude or Kuji-In Retsu, which seem to be almost identical in def value, don't offer a health boost. Yes, I know that you can't compare powers directly, but it's not like EA is an otherwise WEAK set, to need the extra hp buff.

But I'd prefer they add effects to the powers I mentioned than hurt overload.

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No, you're pretty wrong about what I mean.

Statesman has stated, elsewhere, that defense isn't really scaling. Resistance is a flat out resistance, whatever comes in is reduced by 'x' amount. If it's huge damage from someone +3, it's reduced the same.

Defense, otoh, works differently... from the formulas to calculate to-hit, it seems that you add accuracy and subtract defense, or something similar. Considering how higher enemies have to-hit bonuses over you, a small measure of defense just won't be that effective. And once you DO get hit, you'll be killed.

Again, if you had read what I said, you'd see that statesman also mentioned that defense is being studied, to see how it can be reworked so it DOES scale.

But right now, if something just has TOO much accuracy, it'll blow past your defenses. And since you have no resistance, you'll take the full brunt of the blow.

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So you aren't saying that defense is inferior to resistance right now, just that defense is inferior to resistance right now? I see I see, I was wrong then, my mistake.

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And the blaster story: vs. blasters (if they're not blappers) my brute can do pretty well, most of the time. They can NOT one-shot me with 3 attacks. I might be hurt bad, but I'm still alive, I can pop DP or eat insps. And if I get to them, I can turn the tables. From the story of the blaster, he 3-shotted the EA brute. Pure defense also has that disadvantage: when you do get hit by something big, you drop FAST.

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So you're saying that defense lacks in some situations, kind of like how toggled resistance becomes useless if you get held/disoriented/detoggled, where defense might have saved you. Not saying that defense doesn't need some love but it's still got it's bonuses.

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And of course they're strategies. They're just not GOOD strategies. Cooldowns are something you should use in exceptional situations. Otherwise you're fighting 3 minutes and waiting 4. If your winning a fight has to rely on some massively powerful cooldown of yours, you have to reevaluate your strategy or your build or the enemies.

I mean, I could build a strategy which involves my keeping 4 purple insps active on me always. And head back to town to buy more, when I run out. It really is not a good tactic; it's desperation. Overload and unstoppable are the sort of thing you pop if you need to take aggro from an AV. Not because a certain LT-level minion can make everything else you have superfluous.

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All I'm seeing here is you calling for skill balancing, make em all good. You don't want Overload to cover for defense lacking, you want defense improved, etc. All of this is a call for the devs to "balance" the skills. Fix the stuff that's broken. That's all fine and dandy, but until things are fixed, all of us are left with this idea of "making due with what ya have."

Why hail Overload as awesome? Because it's a tool for covering weaknesses in a set. Until the day defense is "fixed" Overload is going to be one of those. Blasters can 3 shot EA, but at least with Overload you have a chance until defense scaling is fixed (keep in mind that overload isn't just defense, it seriously bumps up your hp max, making you harder to kill period). I haven't been suggesting Overload is a fix, I've been saying that it'll help against EA's weaknesses. Whether or not those weaknesses will be fixed is irrelevent, we're in the here and now and unless everyone wants to hang up their EA until defense is improved, they have to make do, and Overload helps with that.

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LOL,

I don't have anything against stalkers. They stay out of my way in combat, they rarely take aggro from me and tend to kill the most annoying enemies in the spawn nice and early. OTOH, I don't try to rescue stalkers who AS a boss in the back and pick up a ton of aggro. But I play like a scrapper on speed rather than a tank. I like to kill and finish my kills.

So <3 for stalkers is cool.

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Hah! one down, only 46,000 to go!

If a stalker needs a rescue, get a new stalker. If a stalker's stealing a bunch of aggro from a brute... well, the stalker's dead anyway. Personally, I just take out the worst mezzing/status effect mobs, then pop a smoke flash to get the aggro back where it belongs, then retreat to the outer fringe of combat and whack snipers. Raider engineers, Rikti portals, Nullifiers, Specops, and all manner of things that generally annoy and complicate combat should be any team stalker's prime directive, immediately followed by LTs and Bosses.

Most bad stalkers will be dead long before they can present a huge tactical problem for the team. Good stalkers will precision strike to carve an easier path for everyone else.

So sad but true. Even in post-30, most pve tactics for stalkers (that I've seen)is: 'i start the fight by ASing this mob in the middle of the crowd, then, when I face-plant you come and kill the rest'.

It's really refreshing when you find one that realizes that getting a whole mob angry at them is not a good choice.

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This also extends to people who suggest using overload in pvp. Overload (and unstoppable for that matter) are last-ditch tactic; relying on it to fight means you have to wait outside fights AT LEAST as long as you spend with it on. If it's the ONLY way you can win a fight, then balance is off.

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well if it's 3 or more on one and you use overload to win the fight. I'd say that's pretty ballanced. But using those powers only means you don't loose as soon with them than with out. you still have to get and stay closes enough to your target to hit them. and then you still have to actually hit them

Well, yeah, if you're being ganged up, that's the perfect moment. They're there to save you, or to make an impossible encounter not quite so impossible. But it's not something you can rely on for every fight, mainly because it won't be available every fight, not unless you plan to fight for 3 minutes and then sit out for 4 (with hasten).

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Well, yeah, if you're being ganged up, that's the perfect moment. They're there to save you, or to make an impossible encounter not quite so impossible. But it's not something you can rely on for every fight, mainly because it won't be available every fight, not unless you plan to fight for 3 minutes and then sit out for 4 (with hasten).

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it actually recharges faster than you think. 3 SO recharges gives it a 95% recharge reduction. so it's down some like 3 mins or less btw. and that's without hasten.

even before i slotted the power it didn't seem like it was rechargeing for 16 mins