Overdue rent = locked out of bases?
By
Alexio_DeAmore,
Posted on: 2005-12-20 13:44 in Base Construction
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The real question is, are we going to be loyal enough to stay when the next Hero MMO comes out?
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By then I expect I'll have taken a hiatus, returned and probably be on another hiatus.
Another superbeing themed game would have to be FAR better than CoX to encourage me to start over in it.
Heh, I'm just glad CoH isn't yet another Swords and Sorcerery themed MMO. You would think game developers would be more creative.
Isnt this forum the de facto focus group.... We know Recluse reads these posts.. and Jack, well he isnt as bad as Koster but he seems pretty out of touch with the game in general
The problem with ther forums, as is often pointed out, is they contain a small, self-selecting portion of the player base and cannot be considered representative.
I will agree with you there... what is often a minority opinion on the forums --- poo-pooed and one starred -- turns out to be a widely held belief in the live game.
But then how would they form your focus group.. RPers and PVPers would have different issues. The test center Carebear fanbois arent a good choice IMO. You cant randomlly pick people since not everyone is into to base building or experienced at it.
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Don't pretend that this is about bashing the Devs.
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Not pretending it is about bashing the Devs. If it was about bashing the Devs I would be right in the middle of it. This is about people not getting all the information, making up their own information, and then being mad about not having the correct information. That's all this is about.
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But then how would they form your focus group..
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Through recruitment screening and pre-selected demographics. It's kind of complicated and since I do this for a living I could write several pages on the subject that I'm sure no one would care about.
For once, I won't.
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But then how would they form your focus group..
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Through recruitment screening and pre-selected demographics. It's kind of complicated and since I do this for a living I could write several pages on the subject that I'm sure no one would care about.
For once, I won't.
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If you work in SE Michigan drop me a PM. Teach math and would love to know more a) for class and b) incase I get tired of teen age crap.
Mr. O
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If they asked me I'd rather spend part of my own money to sit down with Jack and Crew face to face to talk rather then rely on getting my opinion right in online surveys and chats.
A chance to say "Here's what we're doing" "do you mean A?" "No.. not quite A... more like B" "Wait, but isn't B like C?" "No, no.. more like A". "A?". "Yeah"
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A focus group is not an online survey. It's a meeting between a small number of people specifically recruited to meet a pre-defined range of demographics and/or psychographics. It can be done live, or in an online chatroom type environment. The meeting itself is conducted by a neutral moderator with an agenda of items to discuss. It allows the free and open exchange of ideas you seek without the developers being stuck in a position of having to defend themselves OR the people involved being potentially intimidated in their presence.
Focus groups are often a good way to help refine questions for a survey to be conducted later but they are in no way the same thing.
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No offense, but focus groups are next to useless. They were concieved as a way for corperations to generate statistical models without all the cost of, y'know, generating statistics. Their functional value has -always- been dramatically overrated. There are just too many ways that people differ from each other for a small number of people to speak for a large number of people. The only way to get reliable data is to poll a significant number of people. The more you poll, the more likely your data isn't being skewed by personal quirks. Modern psychology just is not effective enough to categorize people in the way Focus groups try to.
Jason Heavensrun
Swift : Freedom Server
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com/CheckmateStudios
Check out my first Architect Arc, "Bring Up the Sun", arc #339507, and let me know what you think!
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No offense, but focus groups are next to useless.
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I'm going to have to disagree with you there.
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They were concieved as a way for corperations to generate statistical models without all the cost of, y'know, generating statistics.
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No, they weren't. Anyone using them for such is violating the codes of the entire industry.
Focus groups are qualititative research. They are designed to establish the breadth of range of opinions that exist concerninga given topic. They are not quantitative research they give no insight into how commonplace those views are in the general public unless thos views are nearly universal.
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Their functional value has -always- been dramatically overrated.
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In fact, I'll actualy agree with this. Many people use them incorrectly. That does not mean, however, they are useless when used for what they are designed to do.
There are just too many ways that people differ from each other for a small number of people to speak for a large number of people.
Nor is that their purpose. By carefully crafting your group(s) composition to target as wide range of respondents you inherently skew any chance they offer a numerical representation of the population. People who try to do so are wasting their time.
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The only way to get reliable data is to poll a significant number of people. The more you poll, the more likely your data isn't being skewed by personal quirks.
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Yes, but you can't design your poll in the first place until you have a sense of the range of opinions you need to test.
A focus group with CoH players will tell you, for example, that some people feel they level too slowly in CoH while others feel they level too quickly.
A follow-up survey will then establish how many people in the player base feel one way, feel the other or have no strong opinion either way.
But to simply design a survey with no foundation to design it on leaves that survey instrument vulnerable to missing critical questons, or phrasing those questions in a way that skews the results, or bias by the designer.
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Modern psychology just is not effective enough to categorize people in the way Focus groups try to.
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Again, you have an erroneous view of what focus groups are designed to do. But I can't say I blame you since they are often misused in just the way you describe.
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No offense, but focus groups are next to useless.
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I'm going to have to disagree with you there.
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This is unrelated to anything about the discussion, but for the record, Your avatar causes me to superimpose Stephen Colbert's voice on everything you type. ;p
It's a good thing!
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They were concieved as a way for corperations to generate statistical models without all the cost of, y'know, generating statistics.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, they weren't. Anyone using them for such is violating the codes of the entire industry.
Focus groups are qualititative research. They are designed to establish the breadth of range of opinions that exist concerninga given topic. They are not quantitative research they give no insight into how commonplace those views are in the general public unless thos views are nearly universal.
[ QUOTE ]
Their functional value has -always- been dramatically overrated.
[/ QUOTE ]
In fact, I'll actualy agree with this. Many people use them incorrectly. That does not mean, however, they are useless when used for what they are designed to do.
There are just too many ways that people differ from each other for a small number of people to speak for a large number of people.
Nor is that their purpose. By carefully crafting your group(s) composition to target as wide range of respondents you inherently skew any chance they offer a numerical representation of the population. People who try to do so are wasting their time.
[ QUOTE ]
The only way to get reliable data is to poll a significant number of people. The more you poll, the more likely your data isn't being skewed by personal quirks.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, but you can't design your poll in the first place until you have a sense of the range of opinions you need to test.
A focus group with CoH players will tell you, for example, that some people feel they level too slowly in CoH while others feel they level too quickly.
A follow-up survey will then establish how many people in the player base feel one way, feel the other or have no strong opinion either way.
But to simply design a survey with no foundation to design it on leaves that survey instrument vulnerable to missing critical questons, or phrasing those questions in a way that skews the results, or bias by the designer.
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Modern psychology just is not effective enough to categorize people in the way Focus groups try to.
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Again, you have an erroneous view of what focus groups are designed to do. But I can't say I blame you since they are often misused in just the way you describe.
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Indeed. I've just heard the words "It didn't go over well in focus groups" as justification for fixing things that weren't broken too many times. Honestly, I'd never even thought about using it for the purpose you described, because I don't think I've ever heard of it being used for that purpose. (of course, the people misusing it are always going to generate attention for themselves by virtue of the fact that it leads them to erroneous conclusions, so it's not suprising someone might not hear about proper applications) But yeah, I can see what you're getting at.
Jason Heavensrun
Swift : Freedom Server
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com/CheckmateStudios
Check out my first Architect Arc, "Bring Up the Sun", arc #339507, and let me know what you think!
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This is unrelated to anything about the discussion, but for the record, Your avatar causes me to superimpose Stephen Colbert's voice on everything you type. ;p
It's a good thing!
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I'm hoping it will help people "get" the tone I'm taking with most of my posts.
Anyway, thanks!
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No offense, but focus groups are next to useless.
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I'm going to have to disagree with you there.
[ QUOTE ]
They were concieved as a way for corperations to generate statistical models without all the cost of, y'know, generating statistics.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, they weren't. Anyone using them for such is violating the codes of the entire industry.
Focus groups are qualititative research. They are designed to establish the breadth of range of opinions that exist concerninga given topic. They are not quantitative research they give no insight into how commonplace those views are in the general public unless thos views are nearly universal.
[ QUOTE ]
Their functional value has -always- been dramatically overrated.
[/ QUOTE ]
In fact, I'll actualy agree with this. Many people use them incorrectly. That does not mean, however, they are useless when used for what they are designed to do.
There are just too many ways that people differ from each other for a small number of people to speak for a large number of people.
Nor is that their purpose. By carefully crafting your group(s) composition to target as wide range of respondents you inherently skew any chance they offer a numerical representation of the population. People who try to do so are wasting their time.
[ QUOTE ]
The only way to get reliable data is to poll a significant number of people. The more you poll, the more likely your data isn't being skewed by personal quirks.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, but you can't design your poll in the first place until you have a sense of the range of opinions you need to test.
A focus group with CoH players will tell you, for example, that some people feel they level too slowly in CoH while others feel they level too quickly.
A follow-up survey will then establish how many people in the player base feel one way, feel the other or have no strong opinion either way.
But to simply design a survey with no foundation to design it on leaves that survey instrument vulnerable to missing critical questons, or phrasing those questions in a way that skews the results, or bias by the designer.
[ QUOTE ]
Modern psychology just is not effective enough to categorize people in the way Focus groups try to.
[/ QUOTE ]
Again, you have an erroneous view of what focus groups are designed to do. But I can't say I blame you since they are often misused in just the way you describe.
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actully i have to agree that they are next to useless... working in advertising I would often have CDs waste time with focus groups... Unless it was something of a specific technical nature we could get the same results just by quizzing people in the office.
But we all digress....
There is no need for a focus group... here is what it boils down to:
Rent sux. Make it go away.
Items cost too much. Lower the cost or increase Prestige gain.
Bases need more usefulness. Seriously, the med reclaimers need a big boost to compete with hospitals
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I was under the impression that if you didn't ever pay base rent you would only loose access to things that would be useful in raids. Therefore if you never wanted to do raids you'd never need to pay rent.
Our base hasn't even been made fully functional yet but we get into it and use it for role play and to play with the editor, and we've let the rent go for a long time. Last night we couldn't get into it at all until someone finally paid.
Am I remembering wrong? Are you required to pay rent just to use the base even if you aren't using it for raids?
Thanks!
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I'm afraid you're remembering somewhat wrong. There is a grace period after your first missed payment during which you base is powered down. But if you continue to ignore rent, eventually all access to your base is lost. Once you pay your rent, access is restored.
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That's not what we were told before. It was said to us that if we failed to pay rent, our base would lose functionality, but we could still enter it normally. Also, we were told at about hte same time that rent could never get more than one "rent cycle" behind- it doesn't accumulate, and paying the most recent rent charge would catch us up completely.
This didn't come out of thin air. This is what the dev team posted, and to find out 2 months after the game went live that this isn't the way it works is a fairly major "oversight." Can you tell us if the second part of this is still true, that back rent doesn't accumlate, or did you guys decide to change that without telling anyone too?
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This is absolutely correct. There were even LONG discussions about the strategic value of NOT paying rent. Getting locked out was never something a redname talked about. If it were, there would have been some serious discussions on frequency, cost, etc.
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Just thought I'd resurrect this now that I can attribute the redname that said "worst case is this" on rent.
From the mouth of Lord Recluse
Nothing about access, your base was supposed to lose functionality. Seems like history is being rewritten...
I have a character with her own base. its just a transporter room and a big room. Rent is under 600 prestige. Make an alt SG, with a simple RP base. Save your main SG prestige for when you are ready to use it.
IMO rent should scale to how much prestige you earned that month, not tax the snot out of everything. Or, better still, let people have a base. When they want to start putting things in that use energy and control, then start charging rent.
My understanding is it's some sort of prestige 'sink' to prevent an over abundance of prestige in order to keep raids fair.
Okay, put that way, yes. On board with focus groups.
I just feel that "online" sounds easy but misses something when it comes to sharing ideas. Even chat rooms are nice but you're still bound by your ability to type, and you lose things like body language, inflection, subtext... you lose all non-verbal communication. Things like watching for eye contact.
But it doesn't really matter. While it's nice that Cryptic and Jack like to tell us stuff from time to time, they're not bound to do it. And we can't expect much more really. The real question is, are we going to be loyal enough to stay when the next Hero MMO comes out?
Mr. O