CoH = $15 a month (cool) CoV = $15 a month (BAD!)

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The question is, would we not really just be incentivizing most players to turn off whatever game they were not playing for most of the month...which would be a) annoying to users and b) not make us more money - not exactly win-win.
-jg

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Well, if that were the case, that's what I would do... for awhile... if I could -- turn off CoH and play CoV paying CoV's monthly only and not having access to my heroes.

If CoH's fee was required to play CoV, and yet CoV's had an additional fee, I would feel that playing my Heroes was more financially sound than playing my Villains. In fact, I would be highly dissuaded from starting a Villain, or buying the expansion (I assume it will have a shelf pricetag?) at all.

I think it ridiculous that playing a Villain (with mandatory access to your Heroes) would cost more than playing just a Hero. I think CoV wouldn't get enough support, in this case, to warrant the updates that CoH fees would still bring in, and those who did pay the extra fee would soon despair and back out.

I think the only viable solution is to charge a shelf price to activate CoV and lump it with the existing CoH fee without raising the per monthly cost. That way those who believe it is worth the shelf price will fork over and have both so long as they keep active accounts, and those who don't will continue paying and playing their Heroes as usual without interruption or unwelcome change.

As for how you plan to gain financial incentive to keep updating CoV as much as CoH, beyond the initial activation fee, I would recall your "1-account 1-character online at a time" statement. The subscriber bought both boxes, is paying the monthly fee to use the service for the exact amount that they were previously... just that now they can choose which content they want to experience, as a reward for buying the CoV box. They only have so many hours to login, and hours once spent in CoH must now be given up for hours spent in CoV.

If this isn't enough to justify the "Expansion 1-time buy, same monthly fee" method, then the only alternative would be to release CoV as "a competitor" to CoH. Same box price, same monthly fee, the customer decides which to patronize, (or both, if they're better off than those in my SG). The reason for this is to still allow those only interested in CoV to pay exactly as much as those only intereseted in CoH, and not $CoH + $CoV, which I previously discussed.

For example: I know many in my area who won't play CoH until CoV is released, and then they just assume they'll have to buy the CoH box and the CoV "expansion" on top of it, and pay the same monthly fee I'm paying now. However, they probably won't ever create a Hero at all, and will get right to the Villains and never look back. So even if kept separate from CoH, you will still be gaining lots of "additional subscribers" like these who will only ever be interested in CoV, and CoV should be successful on its own merit supported by that player base (and those who are current or ex-CoH subsribers).

That's how I see it.

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As for how you plan to gain financial incentive to keep updating CoV as much as CoH, beyond the initial activation fee, I would recall your "1-account 1-character online at a time" statement. The subscriber bought both boxes, is paying the monthly fee to use the service for the exact amount that they were previously... just that now they can choose which content they want to experience, as a reward for buying the CoV box. They only have so many hours to login, and hours once spent in CoH must now be given up for hours spent in CoV.

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I think the concern for the company is that after CoV's launch that fee will essentially be split to support two different clusters of zones and periodic expansions to both. Remember, CoV isn't just about PvP. There's going to be a thriving PvE environment confined to The Fallen Isles environment that can only be accessed by CoV subscribers.

After CoV's launch, are the free Updates going to be specific to the two different city clusters? And if they are, will Updates for CoH come out at the same time for CoV? Will the dev's be able to keep the same quarterly schedule for Updates at the same fee level?

Are the Updates going to be for both city clusters at the same time? Is each Update going to be 50% hero content/50% villain content? Is it going to be 33% PvP content/33% Quality of Life content/33% PvE content? Will both games get EATs at the same time or staggered?

There's a lot of unanswered questions regarding how the CoH universe will change dramatically after CoV's launch. I think that's why they are hesitant to rule out upping the fee until they see how beta goes and how the pre-orders of CoV are selling.

I'd also like to add after reading more posts...

I think there is merit to a "preferred subscriber discount". Say you already paid for the box and monthly fee for CoH, then as a "thank you for your business", you can access CoV for an additional $5 for a total of $20. But it shouldn't be required to play CoV at all.

You should still have the option of just paying $15 for CoV, without paying the extra $5 to add CoH. That way, your options are:

- CoH for the box and $15
- CoV for the box and $15
- CoH + CoV for the boxes and $20

- Those who love their heroes too much and don't have the $$ or interest to pay the 1-time and $20/mo. to access CoV continue uninterrupted. As such you don't mess with a good thing in keeping these subscribers, and they continue to support updates as much as they do now.

- Those who tire of CoH despite the updates "make the leap" to CoV at the cost of a new box without interrupting their monthly fee. They merely switch their interest and support over to the new project. Those who, like I said earlier, have merely been waiting for CoV to join as new subscribers will bolster the "leapers" and create what I think is a comparable subscriber base to CoH, at least in time.

- Those with the $$ and interest pay for both boxes and a 33% increase in monthly fees (% should be constant when subscribing for additional price packages, to keep their relative incentive intact). This gives both projects an initial "shot in the arm" investment by selling boxes, and in practice, $10/mo. support of each project, instead of only $15 support for one.

Why this still makes sense both to the player, and to the company, financially is simple. The customer cannot create more end-user login time by paying extra to access both at once, but they will experience access to "all possible content" at will, and appreciate their "preferred subscriber discount".

They may begin by only subscribing to one or the other for $15/mo. and a single box price... but if they ever tire of the "side" they chose, or witness their friends and SG-mates relogging at will to "the other side and back" on a daily basis, they will be more likely to rationalize a dual-subscription with "just an extra 5 bucks", than the financial equivalent of an entirely new second account. CoH subscribers who already have 2 accounts would be far more likely to "unlock" CoV on BOTH accounts for an extra $10/mo. + 1-time box prices, than the financial equivalent of expanding their total commitment to an unprecidented 4 accounts per person.

On the company side of things, the "preferred subscriber discount" will generate far more dual-subscriptions than if CoV was treated as a true competitor, and the "lost $10/mo. discount" will be made up for in sheer volume. I am willing to bet that at least 3 users would pay an extra $5/mo. for every 1 user that can afford 2 separate accounts.

Their servers will also only see $20 subscribers the same as $15 subscribers since they can only be on CoH or CoV and not both at once. Thus increased profits for the same workload. If CoV was a separate $15/mo. fee, 1 user could (and in most cases would) have 2 characters logged in at once, while a "preferred subscriber" can only have 1. What is more efficient? 2 characters logged in for $30 ($15 per), or 1 character logged in for $20 ($20 per). The "preferred subscriber" method means more $ per character logged in, no matter which way you slice it.

The most important thing to do is maintain a loyal subscriber base, make them feel appreciated for their business, and give them several options to support your company, so that you do not isolate any type of customer. All are willing to support the company, and many are only able because of X or Y option. Keep this in mind when hammering out the final decision, and everyone will benefit from the outcome.

What some of these seeming RICH people fail to note is that alot of us can afford to buy the expansion yes....but we can not afford a raise in the monthly fee's especially if SOME of us are already paying two fee's for two different MMORPG'S that NCSOFT/Cryptic Studio are putting out. A price increase for me is simply...unaffordable.

I'll drop CoH and Lineage II if a price increase happens and go somewhere else like WoW and play one fee to scratch my itch.

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What some of these seeming RICH people fail to note is that alot of us can afford to buy the expansion yes....but we can not afford a raise in the monthly fee's especially if SOME of us are already paying two fee's for two different MMORPG'S that NCSOFT/Cryptic Studio are putting out. A price increase for me is simply...unaffordable.

I'll drop CoH and Lineage II if a price increase happens and go somewhere else like WoW and play one fee to scratch my itch.

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PSSSST, this thread is just a WEE BIT outdated.

In before lock....+1.

May I please refer everyone to the words of " bruce " chapter 4 verse 7...*ahem*

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I'm pretty* sure the additional fee for coh+cov is somewhere between 'zero' and 'not much' Our greed is more than outweighed by our fear of angry fans!

* Note if I'm wrong, it's jack's fault!

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