Leadership pool is very very appreciate in any groups. They are really useful powers.
and i think Vengeance is only applied when YOU fall.
No its when someone else falls.
You may target a fallen hero with this power.
means you have to be alive and you can't target yourself.
So pretty sure its when someone else falls.
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and i think Vengeance is only applied when YOU fall.
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Orginally, in BETA, yes. In release, however, it is a targeted power i.e. you need to target someone else's corpse.
Wow, I'm sure glad I read this... I was going to get leadership with my provoking tanker, and here it turns out the manual is outdated yet again. -_-
Leadership manuevers I think is good for any AT, as the power doesn't change with the more group oriented ATs. It gives a better def. buff than combat jumping, and it does it to the entire group, albeit for more endurance.
My assessment of assault being good in larger groups is based on the end. you spend on it vs. the damage it will provide. It constantly sucks endurance (and I will say right now that I have no idea how toggles exactly do this, by ticks or per second or what) and it just didn't seem that the damage per endurance you would spend would really be worth it, unless the group was very large and damage oriented. A possible solution I see to this would be to either up the %, or lower the % and apply it to damage after the enhancements are applied, or even if its not broken without the % being lowered. Another possible solution is a damage increase enhancement, although some powers would be absurd with this (ie: Aim, Build up and its multiple names, etc.)
so I take it when you cast a leadership power it also effects yourself? Because from reading the manual I assumed it only effected your teammates.
I'm deffinately interested in getting tactics, but the rest seem kinda useless the way you described it.
Leadership powers certainly affect yourself.
Leadership powers each suck 20% of the unbuffed endurance recovery rate. So, having 3 toggles on without stamina would mean you're not doing much else. However, a single END enhancement drops the cost to 15%, two to 12%, and 3 to 10%.
If you want to run all three leadership toggles (as I plan to on my defender), and use 1 END enhancement in the defense and accuracy powers, 3 in the damage power (since you can't enhance its effect) the total coat drops to 40% of your native endurance recovery.
Without stamina this is untenable. However, with stamina 6-slotted you have 175% of native endurance recovery to work with, and 40% is not so bad.
I don't know where the OP gets the idea that a 10% defense buff only reduces even-con mobs chance to hit by 6.25%. From what I've read from Geko's posts (and he's been pretty clear about this), defense buffs are a straight subtraction. A 10% buff drops an even-con mob from from 50% to 40% - you avoid 20% of thier damage.
A controller with 5 Def BUff SOs and one END SO in Maneuvers is contributing a 20% defense buff to the team (25% for a defender) which is a great help - enough to push anyone with a few defenses into the defense cap vs even con mobs.
Defenders and Controllers don't get a bonus for maneuvers.
Sure don't!
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Wow, I'm sure glad I read this... I was going to get leadership with my provoking tanker, and here it turns out the manual is outdated yet again. -_-
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I think we're rapidly approaching the time where an updated PDF manual should be made available.
Umber's Hall of Heroes & Villains
Last I heard, this was inaccurate. Care to share your source of information?
Edit: This was in response to the dude who said controllers and defenders didn't get a bonus. I'm pretty sure they do, but would like to hear where he got this information or if it's just another noob spouting crap.
They get a bonus for assault and tactics, but not for manuveurs. (afaik)
As for the other one, I don't have a clue. And if they did, it wouldn't matter, because it still sucks.
Why don't controllers and defenders get a bonus for maneuvers? Seems unfair to me.
Does anyone have an actual source on the lack of a defender/controller bonus for Maneuvers? Or a rationale for Maneuvers' being different in that respect?
I remember reading somewhere that Tankers get a bonus to Manuevers. It has something to do with Defense being there key ability.
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Leadership powers each suck 20% of the unbuffed endurance recovery rate. So, having 3 toggles on without stamina would mean you're not doing much else. However, a single END enhancement drops the cost to 15%, two to 12%, and 3 to 10%.
If you want to run all three leadership toggles (as I plan to on my defender), and use 1 END enhancement in the defense and accuracy powers, 3 in the damage power (since you can't enhance its effect) the total coat drops to 40% of your native endurance recovery.
Without stamina this is untenable. However, with stamina 6-slotted you have 175% of native endurance recovery to work with, and 40% is not so bad.
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I see problems in your thinking.
First off I am lvl31 Empathy and you didn't say what you are. If you are an Empath don't worry about stamina you won't need it once you get RA fully slotted with Recharges.
If your not here is what i did and understand about Leadership abilities and their endurance side effects.
For each cycle i get 6 endurance points. Each leadership ability takes 2 points per cycle.
To diminish its affects you can only put one SO Endurance Reduction to reduce it from 2 to 1 drain. Thats as far as it goes, you cannont negate it the drain totally.
But if your running Manuevers, Tactics, and Assaut, definately Slot each one with 1 Endurance Reduction (Thats all you need) SO ASAP and if your not a Empathy, Stamina looks very tastey, if you can't find a Empathy regularly.
Just my 2 cents.
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I'm going to approach all of these from the mindset of a controller, which means basically that I'm assuming a 10% buff from assault and tactics (easy number to work with) Its important to point out that scrappers, blasters, and tankers get a 7% and defenders get a 12.5%
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I just wanted to add to this thread that it's been discovered that these aren't the correct numbers. Blasters, Scrappers, and Tankers get 5% base, Defenders get 6.25%, and it's not known what Controllers get. In addition, the streak breaker code reduces the value of Maneuvers, possibly the most valuable of the set. This means that in real play, even a Defender only gets a 5% base defense bonus from Maneuvers, and the other archetypes get less. See this thread for details, at least until it gets autowiped.
This means that for the endurance cost, none of the Leadership powers are really worth taking.
I run a 28th Kinetic/energy Defender with Manuvers 4 slotted with SOs right now. I definately see a difference in the damage I take if I have manuvers off. So, for those that say defenders don't get a def bonus. *shrugs* Maybe they let their toggles drop. As for the controllers I have no proof but I don't know why it wouldn't work.
AZchuckles you're not understanding what they are saying. As a Bonus they mean something the other Archtypes don't get.
It was believed (might still be true) that some AT's get better use out of some pool powers because of their primary power types. (i.e. Defenders primary is buffing, so they get a bonus to pool powers that buff others abilities like Tactics and Assualt. Tankers primary is Defense so they get and give a better use of Manuevers.
Also this was all writen a few months ago, so it maybe outdated.
Last info confirmed by Cryptic employee is that Maneuvers is 7.8% for Defenders, and 6.25% for everybody else.
See here for a summary of all +DEF powers. And here for a post by WeirdBeard confirming the defender and base maneuvers affect.
The above post does not mention controllers, so it's not clear what their bonus is.
Both of those links are long past I'd say.
Anyone have any more recent information on this power pool?
I'm assuming these are the base values.
Power:......................Controller......Defend er.....Everyone Else
Assault(+dam)...............10%............12.5%.. .........7.5%
Manuevers(+def)...........6.25%...........7.8%.... .......6.25%
Tactics(+acc)...............10%............12.5%.. .........7.5%
Vengeance
(+acc,+dam,+def,+heal)
I'm not sure what the numbers are on Vengeance. Last I heard was
that it was now cast on a fallen ally to work. The old version
would've worked really well with self-rez powers.
EDIT: added +heal to Vengeance.
Don't know about the numbers, but Vengeance is a really nice buff. It's cast from a teammate's corpse, and it pretty much casts Fortitude and heals everyone in the AOE. The buff lasts a fair while, too.
It's not a power anyone would rely on, by any means. But when a fight goes sour and someone dies - and it WILL happen - Vengeance is there to help everyone else carry on. Especially good for Trials.
Its amazing how people will say "this sucks" without giving a reason why.....heck an Empath sucks if said emapth doesnt have his heals slotted and just went and slotted super jump.
Manuevers stacks.... 6% fully slotted gives about 12% per person running it (assuming low 1 5 slotting and white enhancments) k, lets assume 10 % per person, more for defenders less for everyone else......10 times 4 (good easy to manage group) equals 40% defense vs everything. ITs a buff, not a debuff so it doesnt get the double shaft. Thats like having two bubble defenders in your group double bubbling everyone and if you have a bubble defender it just makes defense even more insane(vs everything but psi). Now lets go extreme......8man team. yep 80% and all you have to do is stick together, and heal the odd hit or wait for your natural regen to take care of it, because unless your fighting more than +4 to you, it just isnt hitting you that much.
Yep Manuevers sucks its the suckiest power in the game no one should ever take it or slot it.....but for those of us who team i suggest everyone should get it....when you do its the next big nerf
I'm going to approach all of these from the mindset of a controller, which means basically that I'm assuming a 10% buff from assault and tactics (easy number to work with) Its important to point out that scrappers, blasters, and tankers get a 7% and defenders get a 12.5%
Manuevers: With the way defense works, this would take a flat 6.25% off of the opponents ability to hit you and your group. Even minions have a 50% chance to hit you, this would make it 43.75% unenhanced. Fully slotted with SOs of your level, (each with an increase of 20%) this could give a maximum of 13.75%, bringing even minions down to a 36.25% chance to hit anyone in your group. All in all, worth it, especially if you have other powers that give defense.
Assault: A flat 10% damage boost to all attacks. It looks good on the outside, but its really mediocre at best. This 10% cannot be enhanced as of now, and it takes the 10% of your damage to add on *before* your enhancements. That means at level 16, an AR blaster would get 6.58 extra damage from hit sniper shot, and 3.91 extra damage from slug. And that's 8 seconds of action times (roughly). Really not worth the cost of the endurance. In a large group, maybe, but otherwise, no.
Tactics: This ability is like manuevers, giving a 10% bonus for your group to hit across the board. This can be brought up to a 30% bonus (6 SOs at 33.3% a piece)...thus almost completely negating the need for accuracy enhancements in your abilities, except maybe AEs.
Vengence: I've never seen this one in action, but from the description, when an ally falls, you give the group big bonuses to damage accuracy and def. From the viewpoint of the classes that should be taking this pool (controllers, defenders) if you're planning on a teamate falling, you're playing your class very wrong.
There you go